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ladwar wrote:

KING CHECKMATE wrote:

@ Exionous=

You know how many ways we have to counter LLAVs? NONE ATM.

You are just salty but the fact is, its not entirely the FG's fault. Is BAD MAP DESIGN.What makes the Forge gun ''OP'' is the fact that they abuse terrain, but thats the way to use them, thats the way they were meant to be. If you cant effectively get to that point then thats not the Forge gunners fault.

im a Forge gunner and i agree in 2 things.

a)The A Forge gun IS the most powerful variant
b)They need a tweak

The weapon is not OP is just way more powerful than the other Forge guns.

I would:
-Regular Forge guns: Leave them as they are
-Assault Forge guns: Nerf their damage under regular FG's OR INCREASE their damage to around 1800 at ADV level but GREATLY reduce the splash damage AREA so that only DIRECT hits are worth. (and i would probably use the assault variant more if the last was the case XD)
-Breach Forge guns: AFTER the shot is CHARGED, the player is able to move. 6 seconds standing still and then not even being able to move is WAY too much penalty for the damage increase when: 1st you already have to wear a heavy dropsuit to use the FG and 2nd, The speed of the Assault FG is proven to be better than the extra damage of the Breach (6 seconds for 2700 dm or 3000+ dm in 5 secs of the assault forgegun?).

my 2 cents

you want to know how to counter LLAVs...

tanks. there are counters to LLAV thus you point is made invalid.


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Exionous Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 19	Posted - 2013.08.24 21:51:00 - [1] - Quote The assault forge gun is overpowered. Yeah, I said it. Now before you kids start whining at me "BOOO NO ITS NOT FK YOU" and all your worthless crap I hear every day on here, grab your panties and a lemonade, because its time for a little logic put in your head. I'm going to go through all 5 reasons why the assault forge gun is overpowered, and should be nerfed--or removed--in the next patch, if not sooner. 1. Let's start with the name itself. "Assault." Hmm... aren't those the weapons that do less/the same damage, with a higher rate of fire? Scrambler Pistol: Damage: 80.0 Rate of Fire: 400.0 RPM Clip Size: 6 Assault Scrambler Pistol: Damage: 80.0 Rate of Fire: 422.5 RPM Clip size: 6 You have the idea now. Lets go to something that has a closer... "personality" to the FG. EXO-5 Mass Driver: Direct Damage: 254.1 Splash Damage: 121.8 Blast Radius: 4.2m Clip Size: 6 Rate of Fire: 60.0 RPM EC-3 Assault Mass Driver: Direct Damage: 152.5 Splash Damage: 73.1 Blast Radius: 6.3m Clip Size: 8 Rate of Fire: 75.0 RPM Seems normal, right? An assault variant of a weapon does less damage, but can fire faster and with a higher blast radius. Now, take a look at your beloved forge gun's stats when it's compared in the same way... 9K330 Forge Gun: Direct Damage: 1452.0 Splash Damage: 254.1 Blash Radius: 2.8m Charge-Up Time: 3.5s DAU-2/A Assault Forge Gun: Direct Damage: 1524.6 Splash Damage: 254.1 Blast Radius: 2.8m Charge-Up Time: 2.5s Wait, what's the deal? It's an assault variant; why is it doing more damage than the counterpart normal advanced FG? Because it's overpowered.** 2. Now, I know that the main defense against the AFG is the fact it cannot store a charge (this has been proven by people I know... it was the first fact they turned to when I brought the topic up). Well, let me give you the science behind that one as well. Whenever I use a forge gun--for its intended purpose as an anti-vehicle weapon--I almost never store the charge. I find my target, charge, and let go as soon as it's finished. Not to mention that the charge-up time is so quick for the payload it gives out, that it's almost 100% irrelevant that the charge cannot be stored. You can, 99% of the time, get the shot out before anyone can blow enough bullets out to get rid of the 700+ health you have. "Just get close to them dumbass" Let me counter you now. 3. Since 99.6565476537% of people whom use this player-dubbed anti-infantry weapon are above their target, either on a building, or on an elevated mountain/hill, they have two advantages on the average player already: -- Unable to be hit by the mass driver/flaylock, since they are trajectory weapons that have serious trouble hitting targets above them -- The ability to get away from a target by using the enemy's POV to have the building block their view. The forge gunner can then charge, step back out, and fire, all within 1 second; a time that is literally impossible for ANYONE, save a very lucky counter FG, to kill him in time. So, it's extremely powerful, and almost impossible to counter? The defenses on this gun are dwindling further and further down. But oh, I still have over 2800 characters left. I ain't done with you kids yet! Now, to defend the above fact even more... 4. Even at a range where a forge gunner cannot move out of the way (or if we were to assume that they are on an unprotected mountain side), the assault rifle--the most common soldier's weapon on the battlefield--against a target any further than 100 meters away is less than 50%, meaning they'd be lucky to tickle off half of the forge gunner's shields before being blown up. If you had as many damage mods as you could possibly fit, plus a Duvolle AR, plus proficiency level 5, PLUS sharpshooter level 5... you'd still probably get blown up. Snipers aren't really at that much better of a position. 3 successive shots from the TSR (tactical sniper rifle) will deal about 600 damage (3 successive headshots are virtually impossible; after the first shot the target panics, flailing wildly, making landing a shot on the head, which is already difficult against a heavy, a fat chance). This is about 60% of an average heavy's health, or 80%-90% of a MLT heavy (but if you're using a militia heavy suit with a DAU-2/A, you're even more of a noob). A very weak one may be killed if they got a headshot initially. The CSR (charge sniper rifle) doesn't have it all that much better, all matters considered (charge time, delay between shots, etc.). You'd probably kill their shields, but the second shot would have to be luck of the draw with their surroundings, hoping they don't have a hill or other covering device to hide behind until they get their shields back. But, I'm getting off topic; heavies are supposed to be difficult to snipe anyway. So, let's review: Can't be killed by assault rifles Can't be killed by snipers Can't be killed by mass drivers/flaylocks Can't be killed by laser rifles (what can?) Can't be killed by really any sidearm There's only three ways I've found to kill them: 1. Waste a 75,000 dropship, fly to where they are with a few others, pile him from behind and hope he didn't see your dropship take off and shoot it down in 5 seconds anyway. 2. Counterforge from another building (which requires a dropship which they may shoot down anyway) or from an elevated position 3. A very lucky plasma cannon shot when they peek out ... 3 ways to kill someone, two of which require losing 40% of your match's earnings (and could fail anyway), and one requiring luck (which I have 0% of)? No. Just no. Oh, and I haven't even touched on its power against vehicles. Yeah, I've used an entire post and I haven't even said every problem with it. Long story short: Madrugars are dead in 10 seconds. Yeah, OP. Now review what I've said with an open mind. And we'll put a stop to it. Exio out.
Exionous Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 19	Posted - 2013.08.24 22:01:00 - [2] - Quote Smooth Assassin wrote: Damn right you said it and shut up don't nerf scrambler assault pistol they are meant to be heavier as in CPU and PG Oh, I'm not hating on scrambler pistols. They're balanced and effective when in the right hands. That was just one of the examples.
Exionous Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 19	Posted - 2013.08.24 22:25:00 - [3] - Quote Thurak1 wrote: Given all th disadvanteges a forge gun user has i think its very silly to call them OP. Lets list the disadvantages of a forge gunner. at best 1.5 seconds between shots 1 shot is only likely to take out 1 person IF you hit 4 shots per reload 16 shots normal carry slow as hell because they are a heavy no scope to snipe with you rely greatly on a combination of skill and luck to snipe with - A forge gun can be fired almost immediately after the first shot - Yet 2 shots will kill pretty much anyone because it's not hard to aim with something that's a massive ball of energy that blows up - That's enough to kill 2-4 people - So? - Again, so? They'll hide behind walls and the ground below them - The reticule turns red any time you have a shot, meaning all you need to do is get that giant ass reticule on the speck in the distance to do the splash damage... we're not even discussing direct hits.
Exionous Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 20	Posted - 2013.08.24 22:44:00 - [4] - Quote I have used a forge gun before, thats how I know so much about it. After firing, I am able to immediately charge the second shot. And come to think of it, I think I've seen you up on the top of a building using an assault forge gun before. Sooo what you're saying is just the ignorant bullsh*t coming out of your mouth to try to protect your precious gun, which is probably the only thing you can get a kill with? So, you know, the next time you want to try to counter, you had might as well try to get some better evidence. Your half a page of lies versus my entire post* worth of copious amounts of evidence, 99% of which is true, some may be by chance or faltered, since every merc and every shot is different. Now, I'm not going to rack up 2 pages worth of going back and forth with you, because that's just stupid and not worth my time. You'll get your last word, but no one will listen to it. Except your friends on the roof.
Exionous Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 20	Posted - 2013.08.24 22:46:00 - [5] - Quote ladwar wrote: Snipers can operate much more effectivly from the same spot a forge gunner might use because they get to carry nanohives if they wish and might be able to stay in that same spot all match. snipers rarely change spots until the realize they have been spotted or need ammo. snipers also have to hit their target to do damage and do less damage then FG splash unless they get a headshot which is harder then getting a splash hit on the FG by a massive amount on moving targets. btw the FG isn't a hard weapon to no scope with and get direct hits with even at near max ranges. Thank you!
Exionous Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 21	Posted - 2013.08.24 22:57:00 - [6] - Quote Lightning Bolt2 wrote: now first off I'm pointing this to FG vrs Vehicles because this is where I see its supposed to be used. the Assault Forge gun DOES need nerfed because its damage stat alone with charge time. The damage needs nerfed to be weaker than the normal variant to have a real reason to not just use the assault FG. the AFG DMG needs nerfed to be 200 dmg weaker than the normal variant to have the three choices of - Speed - Dmg-or mix. Right now its - Speed AND dmg - dmg - or mix, witch would you choose? yes, unless you have no idea what a FG is you choose the AFG because theres plenty of dmg without any real downs. Thank you, logical person.
Exionous Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 23	Posted - 2013.08.24 23:22:00 - [7] - Quote shady merc wrote: I am not going to argue if the afg is op or not. However I think a big concern with it is that the maps aren't balanced enough. Typically a good forge gunner gets up to a high Roof. Smart tactic I am not mad. The issue is the 2 ways to counter him are simply defeated. You can fly a dropship up to him and drop some friends off. This is a fine tatic against say a sniper but against a primary a/v weapon it sucks. The other counter a sniper will have troubles killing him why. The heavy can just back up to regen. I think to balance elevation we need to look at how much cover and view they area has. For dropship only location You should have either very little cover so you need to contend with people shooting at you or at a view limited view of the battlefield. So for the 2 extremes you could have a small rooftop where you can always be shot at with a huge view of the map or enough to room to back up but very limited few of the battle view say a view area looking over a major path to an objective. If the location has a ladder you should receive more cover/view area. If there are steps leading to your rooftop you should get the most view/cover. I think changes like these means we could nerf the afg less as well a keep the tatical advantage of rooftop. This will also lead to more small squad fighting to gain the tactical advantages to increase their chances of taking objectives I really can't understand a word you're saying, and it's a little off-topic, but hell at least you're trying.
Exionous Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 23	Posted - 2013.08.24 23:58:00 - [8] - Quote ladwar wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: @ Exionous= You know how many ways we have to counter LLAVs? NONE ATM. You are just salty but the fact is, its not entirely the FG's fault. Is BAD MAP DESIGN.What makes the Forge gun ''OP'' is the fact that they abuse terrain, but thats the way to use them, thats the way they were meant to be. If you cant effectively get to that point then thats not the Forge gunners fault. im a Forge gunner and i agree in 2 things. a)The A Forge gun IS the most powerful variant b)They need a tweak The weapon is not OP is just way more powerful than the other Forge guns. I would: -Regular Forge guns: Leave them as they are -Assault Forge guns: Nerf their damage under regular FG's OR INCREASE their damage to around 1800 at ADV level but GREATLY reduce the splash damage AREA so that only DIRECT hits are worth. (and i would probably use the assault variant more if the last was the case XD) -Breach Forge guns: AFTER the shot is CHARGED, the player is able to move. 6 seconds standing still and then not even being able to move is WAY too much penalty for the damage increase when: 1st you already have to wear a heavy dropsuit to use the FG and 2nd, The speed of the Assault FG is proven to be better than the extra damage of the Breach (6 seconds for 2700 dm or 3000+ dm in 5 secs of the assault forgegun?). my 2 cents you want to know how to counter LLAVs... tanks. there are counters to LLAV thus you point is made invalid. Tanks, AV grenades, plasma cannons, swarm launchers, not to mention that doing that would still make the AFG overpowered, because the assault variant of weapons is supposed to do considerably less damage (both direct and splash) with a faster ROF and sometimes a larger clip.
Exionous Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 29	Posted - 2013.08.25 14:28:00 - [9] - Quote SILVERBACK 02 wrote: its a hard decision to make... if the FORGE GUN was removed or nerfed the... TANKERS will be over powered.. DROPSHIPS will be balanced... LAVs will be overpowered... INFANTRY will be buffed.... SNIPERS will be nerfed (no stationary targets i.e forge gunners)... the only viable answer i can see is to BUFF THE DROPSHIP. reason;- drop ship wont get shot down when attacking forge gunner on roof drop ships will finally be balanced it doesnt impact any of the other roles as much as a nerf to the forge gun would. and finally... THE COUNTER TO THE FORGE GUN. Yet one that still may cost a hell of a lot of money if you happen to have one of those crappy landings where you bump the ground and its health just disappears. We're evading the topic that, while the FGers being un-counterable is bad, this is not the direct point I'm trying to make. The gun is still overpowered when you look at the stats of other weapons. Sure, maybe they can be countered more easily, but they're still going to be shooting at people. Just like snipers, you can countersnipe, but they'll just come back on a different roof/mountain. Problem not solved.
Exionous Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 29	Posted - 2013.08.25 14:50:00 - [10] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: @ Exionous I've shot LLAvs with 3 shots of an assault FG and they LIVED and then Hide, plus they are so fast that hitting them more than once is pure luck. I've seen LLAvs take on TANKS, nad guess what? AND WIN. What you are talking, plasma cannons? LOOOL , swarms? LOOL bro they have no counters . If you EVEN HIT an LLAV twice with the same weapon is because the driver sucks, and by these standards a Forgunner that sucks can be killed: by a Scrambler Pistol,Scrambler Rifle,Grenade,Assault rifle of any kind,HMG,another FG, sNiper rifle,Plasma cannon, Mass driver, LLAv, Tank, Dropship, Stationary turret; all 3 types,SMG,Nova knifes,shotguns,flux grenades to the face,Melee,Flaylock pistol,R/E, Proximity mines with a proper trigger, and basically anything that does at least 1HP of damage. THere by making the whole Original Post invalid >..> ''There's only three ways I've found to kill them:'' YEah well, it depends of the skill of the forge gunner now doesnt it? Plus i already posted some fixes for the FG's that Forge gunners would agree with. If you dont like them, then HTFU and let Forge guns as they are and deal with it. Alright, lets get you out of the way... -If you've shot an LAV with 3 shots of an AFG and they drive away, it's a Charybdis with too many shield extenders. Those things can't really be taken out by anything. Any other LAV--Onikuma, Baloch, Saga, Methana, Abron, or Callisto--will die in 2, if not 1 shot. -Now, if you actually think I'm going to believe that something with 1,900 HP in total (3,000 if it's a Logi) can drive up against something with an 80GJ blaster on it that can usually pump out about 1,000 damage in 3 seconds, more if it's an advanced or prototype blaster, while an LAV has at best a 20GJ blaster that might be able to get out 500 damage every 3 seconds with a scattered ion cannon, then be able to pump through the 3,000-7,000 HP of a tank with one small blaster before the tank can pound through the LAV's 1,900-3,400 max HP with an 80GJ blaster and perhaps 1-2 20GJ's and live... Seriously. Just come on. -It is rather true that if you can hit an LAV driver twice with a swarm he shouldn't be driving, because his countermeasures obviously suck, I'll give you that. But that list of every weapon in the game is just more spurting of nonsense. You go kill a heavy with 6 shots that deal about 80 damage a shot before they turn around and 1) blow you up with their precious FG 2) pump 50 SMG bullets into you, I'll personally stop bumping this thread and make a corporation called "I'm a Noob" and stay in it. That's 480HP max, and that's just now getting into the armour of a MLT heavy. -Core locus grenade damage: 600. The weakest heavy I know has 700HP. Try again. -AR, yes, if you can manage to fly your dropship to where they are without them seeing, hope they don't hear the funny whirring sound of the engines, hope they don't hear it power down, hope you don't crash it and there's now a big explosion sound you hope they didn't hear, hope they don't turn around before you get close enough to start shooting, hope they don't pull an SMG out, then start shooting back then jump off the building and run away... I wonder if I missed anything. -I'm sorry, LAV? So what you're saying is your LAV can fly up to the top of a building to smack them with your front bumper? Just, what? -Nova knives, shotgun, plasma cannon, counter FG (which I stated in my OP so putting that is useless), we're all assuming you can get the dropship up there before they see it. I don't want that fate to be in the hands of "did he happen to see me flying?" -Read the OP about sniping. It just doesn't really happen. -Flaylock? Do I even need to say anything about that? 3 shots that do about 400 damage max? -RE would work, but you're once again assuming you can get up to the building they're on. -You've obviously never used proximity explosives, because those only work on vehicles. -A flux grenade to whatever-the-hell-you-want-to-use combo would work, yet once again you're hoping you can even get up there. (Do NOT turn this thread into a battle of bad mapmaking. That still doesn't solve our problem that the gun is still OP.) -"Anything that does 1HP of damage." See, now you're just being stupid. Now, stay off my thread. You're obviously one of those people protecting his guardian angel weapon that gives you kills in a match. Think about what you're going to say before you go and put it down, knowing 99% of it is bulls**t.

Exionous Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 29	Posted - 2013.08.25 14:54:00 - [11] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: Exionous, you didn't respond to a thing I said. I'm curious to hear your counter-arguments to my points. That's because half of what you said does not refer to the fact of the matter that this gun is still OP, even if we could counter them. By the way, I put all the stuff about "Get Ready to Troll" and "before you go whining and sht" and all the stuff you presumably believe is "immature" because I know that riles up kids that love to look tough over the Internet by trying to be as dumb as they possibly can on a forum. And I love making them look like the ignorant shts they are. Yes, I may seem whiney or biased on this thread, but right now, simple "can you please change this?" isn't going to work anymore. This problem has escalated too far for that now.
Exionous Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 29	Posted - 2013.08.25 14:58:00 - [12] - Quote Phantom Vaxer wrote: The assault variant should deal a lil less damage than the standard variant. But here's the thing. You know what would really help with forge gun sniping? Make the thing have a small blast radius. The thing is meant to take out vehicles which Im pretty sure are larger than any dropsuit. So why must it need blast radius to do direct damage to a LAV or HAV. Skill shooters can still OHK with forge gunners but not make it annoyance by spamming forge rounds. The gun keeps it damage, keeps its effectiveness against vehicles, and can still OHK infantry but more difficult to do. Seems pretty fair to me. This would help.. this would help a lot. But I'm still thinking they'd be a problem... this would only deter a couple of people from it. The people with "skill" in FGing would continue to do this.
Exionous Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 29	Posted - 2013.08.25 15:08:00 - [13] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: What they need to do with forge guns is reduce the range by 50%. Oh, now you have to get too close to my tank. Aww I feel sorry for you, really I do. But you know, you have been shooting my tanks from hidden places and your FG does more damage then my rail gun. So you know taking a range nerf will force you to start playing tactically to reduce tanks to piles of ruin and rubble. Sniper no sniping. This is another good idea. Reducing the range so they can't snipe. I like that. +1.
Exionous Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 34	Posted - 2013.08.26 02:39:00 - [14] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: The forge Gun just does too many things too well. It is the only weapon besides the Plasma Cannon that can kill both infantry and vehicles effectively. It actually outclasses the Plasma Cannon in every way other than splash damage and radius. not only that, it make Charged Sniper Rifles fairly useless as well, as the only thing it has better than a forge gun is its scope. As of right now the splash damage on a FG actually out damages most SRs. As most can agree that the FG was intended to be an AV weapon, i suggest the removal or extreme reduction of its splash damage (and/or) radius. This is because the splash doesn't even really pose a threat to vehicles, but poses a huge threat to infantry, which (is not/ shouldn't be) their intended targets. I feel that this would do little to no damage to the AV aspect of the weapon, but would make it actually require a much larger amount of player skill to use as an anti-infantry weapon. That is all. YES.
Exionous Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 34	Posted - 2013.08.26 02:41:00 - [15] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: Plz dont nerf my gun... its the only thing i get kills with... we should nerf everything else so i can be the dominant soldier on the battlefield... also lets make this game stupid... Off topic, already discussed, bring this up anywhere else and I will take bigger, more extreme measures.
Exionous Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 41	Posted - 2013.08.27 02:06:00 - [16] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Exionous wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: The forge Gun just does too many things too well. It is the only weapon besides the Plasma Cannon that can kill both infantry and vehicles effectively. It actually outclasses the Plasma Cannon in every way other than splash damage and radius. not only that, it make Charged Sniper Rifles fairly useless as well, as the only thing it has better than a forge gun is its scope. As of right now the splash damage on a FG actually out damages most SRs. As most can agree that the FG was intended to be an AV weapon, i suggest the removal or extreme reduction of its splash damage (and/or) radius. This is because the splash doesn't even really pose a threat to vehicles, but poses a huge threat to infantry, which (is not/ shouldn't be) their intended targets. I feel that this would do little to no damage to the AV aspect of the weapon, but would make it actually require a much larger amount of player skill to use as an anti-infantry weapon. That is all. YES. You mean like an AR right so Exionous where is your nerf AR thread eh? Thats right you are a Cal Logi AR scrub who cant beat a tactical use of the FG. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Kid, I have level 1 in Caldari logistics, and I use that as a support suit. Gonna take a little more than a common proto belittlement to stop me.
Exionous Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 44	Posted - 2013.08.28 21:59:00 - [17] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: I will agree with you on the point number one. Give it 1200-1300 damage, 1 meter splash radius, and slightly higher splash damage. However, being unable to reach isn't really a good point. I can have a sniper up there with AV nades and a high quality SMG, and get similar AI results. Only that the suit I would be more inclined to fit it on would have MUCH lower HP, and therefore can be counter sniped. While fat suits can't get CSsed as easily as a lighter frame, you technically could, through perserverence and good aim. And a charge sniper. Now you pointed that out in point #1, that should be changed. However, the othe forges I think are fine. Yes, yes, very much so. I mean seriously, who snipes with any other FG? There will be a second thread coming very soon in which I will compile all the positive requests and what you guys think should be done to them. This is pretty much the final bump I will be giving this thread, except for briefly pointing it out in the second one. It's pretty obvious that I'm not the only one that wants this, judging by the high amount of approval, likes on the OP, and field experience with other people (of course people are angry and countering, but hey, I would be too if the only gun I use is being fought... and losing). If you believe we may actually get somewhere with this, and could possibly have this implemented in 1.5 (or 1.4.2. or some other subvariant of those weird version numbers that I never understand ), then you should really check it out. The name will be similar to this post, so you shouldn't have trouble finding it if you are one of the people with the same amount of dedication that I do. I'll be putting more detail in the main thread, instead of a reply to a positive thread--and a very intelligent mercenary, seriously Meeko, you are one of the most logical people I've ever seen on this game. Keep it up. This is happening soon, folks! Stay tuned, stay with us, stay ever-supporting, and we might... just maybe... get there one day.
Exionous Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 49	Posted - 2013.09.04 00:46:00 - [18] - Quote This thread's final bump.
Exionous Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 71	Posted - 2013.09.09 23:27:00 - [19] - Quote Decided to bump it again anyway.
Exionous Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 71	Posted - 2013.09.09 23:32:00 - [20] - Quote [1.4 Edit (PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY READ THIS PLOX)] Guess what?! WE CAN KILL FORGE GUNNERS NOW! Well, slightly easier. So, ignore most of my comments on how they can't die. However, it is still overpowered when compared to other forge guns. And roof campers are still annoying. But my point still stands.