from infantry.


CCP seems to balance weapons on some statistics that are blind to individual weapons possibly being OP, unless tons of people use them and register kills.



So if there existed a dropsuit and gun which could literally not die, and literally kill anything by looking at it-- YET for whatever reason many people did not flock to it as FOTM -- it would never get a nerf. Because statistically it does not look OP. Just a few people using a totally broken weapon.

The complain train has found a new destination for ceaseless bitching.

CCP should rename Forge Guns to Fofofofofoforgeguns.

Flaylocks got put in their place, now the best way to make protoburgers **** themselves is rooftop mounted Forge Gunners insta-gibbing wallet warriors.

Lemme see if I understand this...

FG hasn't had anything done to it for nearly a year - and is now broken because people have figured out how to climb onto roofs?

Lemme see if I understand this...

FG hasn't had anything done to it for nearly a year - and is now broken because people have figured out how to climb onto roofs?

This is funny.

Forge Guns have gotten secret buffs that have really helped them. They No longer light up like Christmas trees when charging. Plus the reduction to rendering distance (and tying it oddly to some weapons with their high ranges).

It took until the strange rendering changes that FGs realized they can hide on top of roofs and shoot at infantry or vehicles below them facing little counter. Infantry and vehicles cannot render them or do much if they can. Against infantry the FG has high splash so it's not too difficult to get kills with it.

Now that said I don't feel there is anything wrong with the FGs, we just don't need unscalable towers or buildings.

Nah, the whining masses need something new whine about.

After Forge guns, next on the list will probably be Scrambler Pistols and SMGs

Eventually, the whine list will get down to Nova Knives, and after that the cycle carries on back to tactical assault rifles

Lemme see if I understand this...

FG hasn't had anything done to it for nearly a year - and is now broken because people have figured out how to climb onto roofs?

LOL 'secret buffs'

I'm sure rendering changes affect all weapons the same.

If the towers/buildings are 'unscalable', how did the forge gunner get up there? Couldn't the opposing team employ the same method? Aren't there any counters to this?

But I digress, NERF FORGE GUNS!!!! THEY ARE CLEARLY OP!!!!

Nah, it's always been like this.

And like I said, broken but won't be looked at because not a lot of people use it.

It's nothing new, really.

they got up there with a dropship. what's a dropship's big weakness? did you guess forge guns and having an enemy where their gunners can't shoot, above them? DINGDINGDING Winner!

so the fight is now who can get their forge gunners up high first.

Neither is QQ over getting killed by a weapon working at intended.

You're so philosophical. please adorn me with more pearls of wisdom.

The flaylocks defended their flaylocks.
The tanks defended their tanks
The AR's defended the AR's
now the forge guns join their ranks :P

pretending weapons arn't OP isn't new either. You're the same old same old.

...you can use this argument to say any weapon is OP and anyone defending it is being 'same old same old'

Where's the guy that says "WELL COULDN'T YOU JUST FLY A DROPSHIP UP THERE? IT'S NOT LIKE FORGEGUNS EAT THEM FOR BREAKFAST"?

---

He is the core gamer, the bastard child of the casual and hardcore gamer. He invests the former's effort and cries when he doesn't get the latter's results.

Congratulations! You've figured it out!
And saying complaints about a weapon being OP are just scrubs "QQing" can be equally applied!

durp

O wow - you made one good point. Grats. Now try doing that with your reasoning on why the FG is "Broken" rather then the map design is bad or how you're too awesome to use a sniper.

LOL 'secret buffs'

I'm sure rendering changes affect all weapons the same.

If the towers/buildings are 'unscalable', how did the forge gunner get up there? Couldn't the opposing team employ the same method? Aren't there any counters to this?

But I digress, NERF FORGE GUNS!!!! THEY ARE CLEARLY OP!!!!

Because no amount or type of map design alterations would have any affect on the reasons and ways FG is broken.

And PS what is this about kdr? People care about that? silly straw men

You're so philosophical. please adorn me with more pearls of wisdom.

AYE, DAWG! I'll have you know i'm made out of the finest straw you'll ever see!

It's so nice...and warm...and comfy. You can use me for some really good bedding.

---

He is the core gamer, the bastard child of the casual and hardcore gamer. He invests the former's effort and cries when he doesn't get the latter's results.

Forge would have been nerfed 10x's over by now if it was a light weapon. But not too many spec into heavies vs light/medium, and even fewer spec into a forge vs HMG. Therefore even if it's clearly being abused and OP, the stats won't be large enough for CCP to consider for tweaks.

You really wanted to post that Vid - eh?

You're so philosophical. please adorn me with more pearls of wisdom.

HMGs were a minority weapon but that didn't stop CCP from nerfing them useless at 1.0. For the first several months of this year the FG sucked with the double whammy of bad-game-play and excessive balancing nerfs because during beta it was too good during a time.

Further CCP does monitor these forums. When people ***** they do listen. If you don't think they are aware then file a petition or submit a ticket from the site asking if they are aware of the discussion.

So - what do you guys want? No AoE for forge guns? Make it JUST AV? Maybe lower range so rail tanks can laugh at us more? How about we just get rid of the FG - not like heavies matter anyways.

from infantry.


CCP seems to balance weapons on some statistics that are blind to individual weapons possibly being OP, unless tons of people use them and register kills.



So if there existed a dropsuit and gun which could literally not die, and literally kill anything by looking at it-- YET for whatever reason many people did not flock to it as FOTM -- it would never get a nerf. Because statistically it does not look OP. Just a few people using a totally broken weapon.

Same problem with snipers - where's there QQ thread?

snipers can't kill dropships..
in fact the assault dropship is good at killing them.
its doesn't work the same way with FG.
nice to know you only read the last line and made a post about that.

there is too much stupid in this thread for me to truly fathom.

"OMG BIG GUNZ ON HIGH GROUND!!! WTF?????"


I do believe this is a historical thing as well as an in-game thing.

if you take and hold the high ground, you have the advantage.

If your enemy has the high ground, you remove them.

waah waah heavies on. oh look. proto sniper rifle, meet mister "fat and slow forgegun"

I thought you two would get along well. Remember, the heavy headshot hitbox is at least 50% bigger than an assault's.

But that would be too hard for the pro AR FTW crowd who doesn't want to use this thing we call "tactics" and "adaptation."

If you're getting your ass blown off in a dropsuit fitting, CHANGE YOUR FITTING AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

Or are you really that stupid and have that much tunnel-vision?

When did I mention highground? Towers are irrelevant its the gun that's a problem.

nice strawman again, though.

So you're saying if you saw a FGer, alone, in a 1v1 on the ground scenario - you would lose because the FG is broken?

Are you sure you're not just terrible?

When did I mention highground? Towers are irrelevant its the gun that's a problem.

nice strawman again, though.

When HMGs were OP, everyone was using them.

It was more than half of every team and they tore things up.
It was obvious. Hardly a minority weapon - at the time.

Did they nerf it too hard? Possibly

So you're saying if you saw another man, alone, in the streets on a rainy night, you'd makeout with him?

Never said that and that's not what I'm saying. Keep trying.

But you just said high grounds isn't the problem - so then it must be ground level.

Care to explain or are you just going to get act more butt hurt at being called bad?

I think you're forgetting the commando suit. They even get an equipment slot. >_>

he's in Hellstorm. Nothing good comes from hellstorm.

Except a free target to punch in the face when you get bored.

your using a very expensive suit that i'll just use starter fit to drain you isk you and take over your spot using a suit 10 times cheaper. but you are stretching it to pull the "sniper" card for.

I'd really like to see a guy kill 30 pluss people with the forgegun, running around hitting bullseye with every shot...

I'd really like to see a guy kill 30 pluss people with the forgegun, running around hitting bullseye with every shot...

maybe I am - but you cant deny commando suit with a sniper and swarms can do exactly what everyone here is crying that the FG does, and the Sniper/Swarms would be better at it - with extra ammo.

not really you would have to switch weapons to be AV and you can't OHK infantry and you have less HP with barely any modules and low recharge rate while a FG can do both without switching, more modules and higher HP base without limiting is AV to being effective only on armor. meaning your much more weaker to snipers and limited to SL for AV that you have to switch which is weaker to shields all at a higher ISK cost and much higher SP cost.

no no

a forge gun is totally not a better sniper than a sniper and better AV than a swarm
while being APC, tanky and costing next to nothing compared to the proto suits it 1 shots or the 1.5 million isk derpshi*s it poops all over. it takes tons of skill to aim a 320 meter, unshaking, 100% accurate gun at targets who before didn't see you and now physically can't due to rendering. And vehicles totally know when/where a FG is on the field who willl 3 shot the max EHP, max skilled, best talented pilot in under 2 seconds from the initial unpredictable blast.



the comparison to a commando with sniper and swarm was completely accurate.


/sarcasm

no no

a forge gun is totally not a better sniper than a sniper and better AV than a swarm
while being APC, tanky and costing next to nothing compared to the proto suits it 1 shots or the 1.5 million isk derpshi*s it poops all over. it takes tons of skill to aim a 320 meter, unshaking, 100% accurate gun at targets who before didn't see you and now physically can't due to rendering. And vehicles totally know when/where a FG is on the field who willl 3 shot the max EHP, max skilled, best talented pilot in under 2 seconds from the initial unpredictable blast.



the comparison to a commando with sniper and swarm was completely accurate.


/sarcasm

you know your post is hard to read what you mean...

Yes because ISk cost has always mean niche protection in Dust.

clearly if you spend more money on it that means you should be invulnerable to anything that costs less than you spent.

Right. you want Dust to become pay-to-win. gotcha.

Where's the guy that says "WELL COULDN'T YOU JUST FLY A DROPSHIP UP THERE? IT'S NOT LIKE FORGEGUNS EAT THEM FOR BREAKFAST"?

I don't think FGs are OP. It's the fact that once they're up their they can control that spot for the rest of the game that's the problem.

---

He is the core gamer, the bastard child of the casual and hardcore gamer. He invests the former's effort and cries when he doesn't get the latter's results.

Yes because ISk cost has always mean niche protection in Dust.

clearly if you spend more money on it that means you should be invulnerable to anything that costs less than you spent.

Right. you want Dust to become pay-to-win. gotcha.

totally.
is the ISK cost worth it to use it or is it just simply to high for its value. the place HAVs and DS are in right now.

snipers can't kill dropships..
in fact the assault dropship is good at killing them.
its doesn't work the same way with FG.
nice to know you only read the last line and made a post about that.

PS this was a discussion thread about CCP's method of balancing gun-play and mechanics as being inherently errant.

I still top out at 20

but only when people are like "hey look! Breakin Stuff is here! everyone, INTO THE VEHICLES! LET'S DRIVE OVER HIM!!

PS this was a discussion thread about CCP's method of balancing gun-play and mechanics as being inherently errant.

PS this was a discussion thread about CCP's method of balancing gun-play and mechanics as being inherently errant.

If you can't do it you're bad.

Also no need for towers. A slightly inclined hill is all you need to take advantage of the epic splash damage and 1 hit sniping from a FG.

To the OP: This phenomenon is known as "recall bias." (Look it up)


Also, I'm calling BS on the "this isn't about the FG, it's about the way CCP balances things" backpedal.

I am one of the few that specced into heavy suit, heavy weaponry, and forgegun skills. Those of us who did, and have been forgegunning for months, are very good at what we do, i can spit out 277 splash damage with 15% innate dmg and 2 complex mods every 2 seconds. I can lead targets effectively at 10, 100, or 300M. I can kill all but the most skilled tankers in 1 clip. When i see a multitude of infantry running around in the open, i recycle the biomass in droves, I grab a logi and a gorgon and head to the high ground in order to provide wide-area coverage of the battlefield, i call out troop movements and smash everything mechanized. I do this because 9 times out of 10, the enemy is not battlefield aware or organized. The infantry usually runs, in the open, close together into the light......but when i play against people who communicate, organize, and snipe better than a blind man with cerebral palsy.......well, then i get suppressed and don't kill 30+ infantry without dying.......

Nah, the whining masses need something new whine about.

After Forge guns, next on the list will probably be Scrambler Pistols and SMGs

Eventually, the whine list will get down to Nova Knives, and after that the cycle carries on back to tactical assault rifles

[quote=RAGING GIGGLES]camping on roofs is fine as I see it as the most effective form of head-on, 1v1, tense encounters just the way dust should be played. down on the field supporting my team like a man. wait......

Then read the first post.

As a vehicle pilot, both assault dropship pilot and a tanker, I think Forge Guns have a distinct advantage vehicles. However, the problem lies more that there is proto forge guns against standard vehicles. I think the splash damage to kill infantry is a problem that should be addressed, but the current fg vs vehicle is what I would expect, given the lack of proto vehicles. I think they should release proto vehicles that can take a few forge gun hits before popping, or remove proto forge guns TEMPORARILY until we get proto vehicles. Proto weaponry shouldn't be balanced against standard defenses, that's unfair.

@Combat Clinic
You fly assault dropships. I would happily spend an entire match trying to shoot you down, because that prevents you from harassing and killing my teammates. Same goes for tanks.

I was a dedicated forge gun in prrvious builds and after trying it out this build it feels allot better than befor . I can remember when every 3rd or 4th shot would fly off target but they ninja buffed the dispersion and aiming on the fg as I have yet to miss with a single shot . The forge gun has turned into a win button agaist both infantry and vehicles . Also with the removal of the marauders the forge has effectivly been buffed agaist us tankers as my sagi could withstand several blasts from a proto forge and not have to panic bit now if I see a proto forge on the oposite team I pretty much know I will loose a tank that round . The only way to really avoid proto forges is to redline rail snipe and thats no fun really. Bottom line we need our proto or even adv havs to stand a chance against the swarms of proto av.

So you're saying it's unfair when a std assault suit goes against a proto suit? Just saying your statement is invalid. Its a proto weapon. It should be able to take out std vehicles. and do know how hard it is to kill someone with splash damage with the forge gun? You have to do direct hits if not you're fked. Please don't talk with out even knowing the weapon itself. I myself know most weaponry in the game because I got most of them lvl 3+ so again it isnt op.

Played with the adv assault forge tonight, and loved it! Finally vehicles could be destroyed! (adv swarms are useless, same goes for proto AV nades).

Also shot down one of your dropships tonight 9, and it was very satisfying! I'm personally tired of vehicles abusing infantry in ambush, and the assault forge seems to be the solution.

As for their effectiveness towards infantry, well, I'll agree it is annoying to be OHKed by a forge. But playing as one tonight, it requires the forge player be in a sweet spot and/or get lucky with a shot. Not OP unless they are on the dominating team an have the high ground.

IMO, forge should be left alone. It is perfect where it is at. Heavy players are super slow and easy targets for AR's (oh man, AR's are the bane of a heavy!).

Dropships are the terrorists of the sky, and I am personally glad they are vulnerable to forge guns. Now if only tanks could be the same, then the game might just be balanced...

Uh, no, the breach forge guns immobilize you and takes a full 6 seconds to charge, and this is on a HEAVY suit, yeah heavy suits aren't exactly winning any footraces anytime soon, so, ur saying u cant outrun a heavy? that has to stop? for 6 seconds before he fires? Try again sport....

from infantry.


CCP seems to balance weapons on some statistics that are blind to individual weapons possibly being OP, unless tons of people use them and register kills.



So if there existed a dropsuit and gun which could literally not die, and literally kill anything by looking at it-- YET for whatever reason many people did not flock to it as FOTM -- it would never get a nerf. Because statistically it does not look OP. Just a few people using a totally broken weapon.

You say FG should be left alone..... When a forge gun at standard (breach forge gun) and advanced (DCMA-5 breach forge gun) does more damage than all three proto heavy railgun turrents, which cost wayyyyyyyyyyy more isk than the forges...... Something is wrong here.......

@ Combat clinic......DPS, which stands for Damage Per Second. The militia railgun does a little over 900 damage per second, say about 1800 every 2 seconds. The prototype Ishukone assault forgegun does a little over 1600 every 2 seconds. The Wiyrkomi breach forgegun does a little over 2500 every 6 seconds, compared to the almost 5400 damage of a MILITIA railgun in 6 seconds. Soooo....no.

Wow, combat check charge time on the forge guns, go ahead and check it, ill wait, get a calculator while ur at it. When you're done you can come back and apologize to me.

So you're saying it's unfair when a std assault suit goes against a proto suit? Just saying your statement is invalid. Its a proto weapon. It should be able to take out std vehicles. and do know how hard it is to kill someone with splash damage with the forge gun? You have to do direct hits if not you're fked. Please don't talk with out even knowing the weapon itself. I myself know most weaponry in the game because I got most of them lvl 3+ so again it isnt op.

I'll break it down Barney-style.

A standard assault suit will lose to a proto assault suit, given equal player skill. However, this is fair, because the standard suit has the ability to skill into the proto suit should he so choose to spend his sp on it. As a vehicle operator, I have no proto vehicles with which to compete against your proto forge gun, regardless of how much sp I invest in the various skills. Therefore, yes, it is unfair.

from infantry.


CCP seems to balance weapons on some statistics that are blind to individual weapons possibly being OP, unless tons of people use them and register kills.



So if there existed a dropsuit and gun which could literally not die, and literally kill anything by looking at it-- YET for whatever reason many people did not flock to it as FOTM -- it would never get a nerf. Because statistically it does not look OP. Just a few people using a totally broken weapon.

Here we goGǪ

Don't tell me you have a problem with that? Good pilots can turn the tide of battle if nobody tries to stop them. When I see an assault dropship in the air, or a normal dropship with a skilled gunner, I will try to shoot it down if it's preventing my team from getting things done.

@ Combat clinic......DPS, which stands for Damage Per Second. The militia railgun does a little over 900 damage per second, say about 1800 every 2 seconds. The prototype Ishukone assault forgegun does a little over 1600 every 2 seconds. The Wiyrkomi breach forgegun does a little over 2500 every 6 seconds, compared to the almost 5400 damage of a MILITIA railgun in 6 seconds. Soooo....no.

Hold up what has this got to do with the forge gun issue, please stop trying to annoy me and keep on topic mate.....

With all due respect, you brought this up first, so I'm not the one who went off-topic. In any case, I wasn't trying to annoy you, just wanted to explain why forge gunners spend entire matches trying to destroy vehicles.

Theres no point in even explaining your stupidity to you as i want to keep this thread on topic... So do yourself a favour and next time dont try and even justify that type of game mentality because most of the avers i seen are just thirsty for wp and not to simply scare vehicles off...

Lemme see if I understand this...

FG hasn't had anything done to it for nearly a year - and is now broken because people have figured out how to climb onto roofs?

There's a simple fix for this.

Let the Charge Sniper Rifle always be a OHK on headshot.

Forge gunners are heavies, and shooting a heavy in the head with a sniper rifle is easy.

They OHK you guys with their forge guns, and us snipers will OHK them with charge sniper rifles.
Let the charge sniper rifle be a guaranteed OHK on headshot, and your problems with forge gunners will cease. :)

I just... want to fly...

I just... want to fly...

I just... want to fly...

from infantry.


CCP seems to balance weapons on some statistics that are blind to individual weapons possibly being OP, unless tons of people use them and register kills.



So if there existed a dropsuit and gun which could literally not die, and literally kill anything by looking at it-- YET for whatever reason many people did not flock to it as FOTM -- it would never get a nerf. Because statistically it does not look OP. Just a few people using a totally broken weapon.

Ironically. We have most of the players using a broken, OP weapon and it hasn't gotten a nerf.

It's usually the minority players that get screwed actually.

Hail AR 514.

So you're saying it's unfair when a std assault suit goes against a proto suit? Just saying your statement is invalid. Its a proto weapon. It should be able to take out std vehicles. and do know how hard it is to kill someone with splash damage with the forge gun? You have to do direct hits if not you're fked. Please don't talk with out even knowing the weapon itself. I myself know most weaponry in the game because I got most of them lvl 3+ so again it isnt op.

@combat clinic....First of all, we were talking about forge guns up high ripping into infantry, then you whine about breach forge guns and rail turret comparisons, so YOU started the off-topic shenanigans, im just here to correct you, stop embarrassing yourself with your lack of dust knowledge, if you cant be bothered to do a little simple math, you probably shouldn't be playing an mmofps made by CCP. Until you are willing to use the forgegun and discover it's strengths and weaknesses, your opinion doesn't matter much concerning whether the forge gun is balanced or not. All you know is, OMG! i got killed by a forgegun! Time to whine on the forums! So, in conclusion, shhhhh.....Cuz forgeguns are very well balanced, what you should be whining about, is getting your tanks to ADV, and PRO, but thats a different thread....

Tbh i dont see why proto fg do more damage than proto railgun turrents on tanks, and also how they are able to have such a height advantage when on roof tops of buildings that only dropships can provide access too.

I myself am a assault dropship pilot, and forges are my worst enemy however i try not to complain and work my way around issues in the game. This is due to the fact that my dropship is a weak lv1 aircraft going up against a proto weapon, so there is no problem crying about getting 1-2 shotted by a forge because atm my tier 1 ship is going against a maxed out proto av gun. That is why i decided to change my fittings to counter forge gunners, and so i added a afterburner (which i would advise other pilots to use) which allowed me to quickly escape to the other side of the map in less than 8secs if i was hit once by a proto forge.

What i am trying to say is that FG is not the problem (okay maybe it does too much dmg compared to railguns but still......) it is the players that use them..... I am talking about those sad FG who spend the whole game in pub matches getting stressed and bullying tanks and dropships all through out the match just to ATTEMPT to get 150wp. Ive seen soo many av users die countless times trying to take my dropship and fellow squad-mates tanks non stop all throughout a match, whilst failing miserably only to keep on trying all game to take out one vehicle. Its these types of mentality which cause people to hate FG and other Av'ers (especially militia types) as they stupidly try so hard pointlessly for 100-150 wp. These are the type of players who dont care about winning, but instead have self satisfaction of making vehicle drivers lose....a vehicle. Ive seen this soo many times where swarmers and forgers waste countless isk and die countless times for 150 Wp, infact i would like somebody to explain to me why, even though you are wasting your own isk, you still want the 150 wp when you could of spent your time playing the objective and getting 150wp from assist and killsGǪ

Tbh i dont even know if theres a way to counter this problem because FG is not the problem, as when proto vehicles are introduced they will probably need a buff, it is however player mentality which is the problem, and please people stop crying for nerfs because it is getting boring now, for example if AV'ers get nerfed then it will promote a increase in tanks and then people will start saying tanks need a nerf....etc. If you really want a nerf then please come up with evidence on both points of view and why a role needs to be balanced instead of saying something like "awww my AR cant take out a tank, it is OP" or "my soma got oneshotted by a whryi-something swarm launcher, its op"

@combat clinic....First of all, we were talking about forge guns up high ripping into infantry, then you whine about breach forge guns and rail turret comparisons, so YOU started the off-topic shenanigans, im just here to correct you, stop embarrassing yourself with your lack of dust knowledge, if you cant be bothered to do a little simple math, you probably shouldn't be playing an mmofps made by CCP. Until you are willing to use the forgegun and discover it's strengths and weaknesses, your opinion doesn't matter much concerning whether the forge gun is balanced or not. All you know is, OMG! i got killed by a forgegun! Time to whine on the forums! So, in conclusion, shhhhh.....Cuz forgeguns are very well balanced, what you should be whining about, is getting your tanks to ADV, and PRO, but thats a different thread....

so its okay for you to have a prototype av weapon while we don't have anything near it and its not okay to even the playing field by temporarily removing your prototype and advanced av weapons because we don't have them? total hipocracy from a scrub like you is what ccp listens to, too bad so sad

We would not be able to deal as much damage to dropships and LAVs if proto forge guns were removed, so the prototype versions of those vehicles would have to be removed as well. However, that still leaves proto railguns, proto AV grenades, proto swarms and proto missile launchers. Your idea isn't necessarily bad, but it would affect balance across the board.

You are all very bad at what you do. Get a stock sic a and snjpe him off from 600m away while someone paints him. Problem solved.

If you think forge guns are OP, then you've never used one.

You ARs won't stop until this game is AR only.

I dont think voids idea would change balance but create it . You would see countless scrubs QQing because they couldent solo vehicles anymore. It is supposed to be a team effort to bring down havs not 1 man on a roof top. The same folks who would QQ at the removal of even proto av will be the first to QQ when they cant solo proto havs.

from infantry.


CCP seems to balance weapons on some statistics that are blind to individual weapons possibly being OP, unless tons of people use them and register kills.



So if there existed a dropsuit and gun which could literally not die, and literally kill anything by looking at it-- YET for whatever reason many people did not flock to it as FOTM -- it would never get a nerf. Because statistically it does not look OP. Just a few people using a totally broken weapon.

from infantry.


CCP seems to balance weapons on some statistics that are blind to individual weapons possibly being OP, unless tons of people use them and register kills.



So if there existed a dropsuit and gun which could literally not die, and literally kill anything by looking at it-- YET for whatever reason many people did not flock to it as FOTM -- it would never get a nerf. Because statistically it does not look OP. Just a few people using a totally broken weapon.

I dont think voids idea would change balance but create it . You would see countless scrubs QQing because they couldent solo vehicles anymore. It is supposed to be a team effort to bring down havs not 1 man on a roof top. The same folks who would QQ at the removal of even proto av will be the first to QQ when they cant solo proto havs.

Although you got a 1+ i still believe that a team shouldn't have to spend a whole match trying to take out a HAV, maybe at least 2 people with av should be able to take out a tank, i have done this with my squad where my teams tank forced a strong enemies railgun tank to use his rep, once his rep was on cool down and the tank retreated to its redline my role was to finish him off with my assault dropship, this is the type of teamwork needed to take out tanks, but i believe that a whole "team" effort makes your point sound silly as your basically saying you want tanks to be op......

As a forger let me lay down some tactics for you all to counter a heavy up high. Obviously most of you are not clever enough to think of this yourself.

Drop ship. You have two options. First option is throwing on an afterburner and fly to the ceiling from your red line. Then either dive bomb to the tower and then jump to land on target OR halo drop onto platform. You can control your decent with left joy stick in the air (do not hit dampened until your on target).

Option two, use two drop ships, one to distract forge while other comes in from behind. Though I understand how difficult this is to organize a combined effort to neutralize a target. Nubs. Biggest mistake I see from people in drop ships is that you all fly right at us like idiots and then cry that we can take you out before you get to us.

SNIPE. One or two well placed snipers can keep a forge gunner from being effective. Even if you can't kill him out right, you will annoy him enough to keep him from tracking targets and force him to leave.

Orbital strike. CCP fixed the OBs so you can hit high ground. If there is a skilled gunner who cannot be removed in any other way, then OB him and this uplink.

As for damage against infantry. 75% of my kills with forge are direct shots with a couple of shots being headshots. Why people stand still is beyond me, especially when you know there is a forge gun around. You are asking to be an easy target. You treat a forge like a sniper, always move and in unpredictable ways. This is an anti material weapon. It should kill everything out right. Everything within the forge gun (suit included) is balanced. I do not cry when I'm forged myself as I know how difficult it is.

The forge gun should NOT be touched UNTIL CCP rebalance the entire vehicle department. The only vehicles that are difficult to take down are LLAVs because of their speed and madrugers when built right and in the hands of good tankers. Drop ships have always been weak to forge guns regardless of teir, so stop crying about the gun. Ask CCP to give some good love to the derp.

Sorry who are you?? Hiw long you been a tower forge sniping scrub ?

So you're saying it's unfair when a std assault suit goes against a proto suit? Just saying your statement is invalid. Its a proto weapon. It should be able to take out std vehicles. and do know how hard it is to kill someone with splash damage with the forge gun? You have to do direct hits if not you're fked. Please don't talk with out even knowing the weapon itself. I myself know most weaponry in the game because I got most of them lvl 3+ so again it isnt op.

You missed the point of my post. If prototype AV weapons are temporarily removed, HAVs will become balanced, but that would force us to use advanced AV against proto vehicles (dropships and LAVs). It's the same problem you're having with AV.