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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
League of Infamy
413
   |
Posted - 2013.07.26 18:40:00 -
[121] - Quote
IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:Hah yes! Take their water!
Officially suggested. Now we wait.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1105331#post1105331
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CommanderBolt
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
League of Infamy
118
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 18:41:00 -
[122] - Quote
FATPrincess - XOXO wrote:Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:
Let the controller users cripple themselves if they really want to be that lazy and not get a cheap combo deal.
I have a home theatre setup, with the ps3 on the receiver. My wife users it alot as well, so I can't just take it and put it on a small TV or monitor just to play dust with a mouse(not that I would even if I could, I like surround). Playing with a keyboard and mouse from my couch is pretty crap - i've tried. It's not a matter of buying a 'cheap combo' (because Yea, like real gamers would use cheap mice? Hah..). It's more about ergonomics and enjoyment. I'm not going to go out of my way to get a kb/m just to compete. It's a ps3, not a PC - and it's controller is a DS3, not kb/m. If I wanted kb/m, I'd go play my PC. So much this... QFT Please Wolfman listen to these wise words. -XOXO
As an ex eve player I am a pc gamer at heart. CCP have not and I dont think they ever will release this game on PC so we have to play on this limited crappy console known as a PS3.
Keyboard and mouse feel much better than any controller. At least in my honest opinion. |
Vesta Opalus
Knights Of Ender
1
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 19:55:00 -
[123] - Quote
Paladin Sas wrote:Am i seriously the only person who doesnt mind the controlls the way they are?
I dont mind the controls either, except in rare cases when sniping and the sensitivity is too clunky for very small adjustments. Feels like Im driving some family van where the vehicle wont respond until I turn the wheel a certain amount, then it responds too much.
I want it to be like my civic where if I turn the wheel you get immediate proportional response. But overall Im ok with things. |
Daxxis KANNAH
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
263
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 19:57:00 -
[124] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:You know what, I'm actually going to say this.
If suit-based rotation rates and mouse rotation restrictions are removed at the same time, this game really will be nothing but EVE players. Anyone with half a brain who plays with a controller or Move will just leave.
Like it or not, this is a console game. If mouse aiming has to have a slight handicap to balance the different control methods, so be it.
I have several friends who use the mouse as it currently is, and they deal with it, and perform well. The rest of you need to man up and just adapt.
Newsflash - QQ is the new HTFU |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
849
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 21:01:00 -
[125] - Quote
Daxxis KANNAH wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:You know what, I'm actually going to say this.
If suit-based rotation rates and mouse rotation restrictions are removed at the same time, this game really will be nothing but EVE players. Anyone with half a brain who plays with a controller or Move will just leave.
Like it or not, this is a console game. If mouse aiming has to have a slight handicap to balance the different control methods, so be it.
I have several friends who use the mouse as it currently is, and they deal with it, and perform well. The rest of you need to man up and just adapt. Newsflash - QQ is the new HTFU
How is this QQ, this is a console game not a PC game, a K/BM should not give an advantage over a DS3 especially when it is being used on the PS3. K/BM should be removed period, you bought a console game so play it like a console game HTFU or GTFO. And yes the K/BM does give an advantage over the DS3, for starters a K/BM user can turn around practically instantly and react from fire from any direction, while a DS3 has an extremely low rotation speed that reacting from any incoming fire that's not directly infront of you is a death warrant. Also a K/BM has an advantage in CQC to mid range combat because of this games heavy focus on strafing fights and not actual gunplay. The K/BM movement speed should be just as slow as the DS3 hell maybe slower, or the DS3 needs to be faster. |
Burntface man112
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 21:04:00 -
[126] - Quote
Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:
Let the controller users cripple themselves if they really want to be that lazy and not get a cheap combo deal.
I have a home theatre setup, with the ps3 on the receiver. My wife users it alot as well, so I can't just take it and put it on a small TV or monitor just to play dust with a mouse(not that I would even if I could, I like surround). Playing with a keyboard and mouse from my couch is pretty crap - i've tried. It's not a matter of buying a 'cheap combo' (because Yea, like real gamers would use cheap mice? Hah..). It's more about ergonomics and enjoyment. I'm not going to go out of my way to get a kb/m just to compete. It's a ps3, not a PC - and it's controller is a DS3, not kb/m. If I wanted kb/m, I'd go play my PC. All I'm hearing here is *I'm too lazy to learn to be competitive with a real control method*. This is an FPS. KB/M is designed for it. Devs didn't even bother making FPS for consoles until someone invented a really makeshift system with analog sticks and stuck it in Halo.
lmao all i am hear is "I'm stupid." |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
2705
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 21:09:00 -
[127] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Daxxis KANNAH wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:You know what, I'm actually going to say this.
If suit-based rotation rates and mouse rotation restrictions are removed at the same time, this game really will be nothing but EVE players. Anyone with half a brain who plays with a controller or Move will just leave.
Like it or not, this is a console game. If mouse aiming has to have a slight handicap to balance the different control methods, so be it.
I have several friends who use the mouse as it currently is, and they deal with it, and perform well. The rest of you need to man up and just adapt. Newsflash - QQ is the new HTFU How is this QQ, this is a console game not a PC game, a K/BM should not give an advantage over a DS3 especially when it is being used on the PS3. K/BM should be removed period, you bought a console game so play it like a console game HTFU or GTFO. And yes the K/BM does give an advantage over the DS3, for starters a K/BM user can turn around practically instantly and react from fire from any direction, while a DS3 has an extremely low rotation speed that reacting from any incoming fire that's not directly infront of you is a death warrant. Also a K/BM has an advantage in CQC to mid range combat because of this games heavy focus on strafing fights and not actual gunplay. The K/BM movement speed should be just as slow as the DS3 hell maybe slower, or the DS3 needs to be faster.
See, that's going too far the other way to say it should be removed.
Obviously this is never going to be a game that caters to mouse user's "twitch reflexes", and I'm honestly fine with that. I've used my mouse in Dust before, and the only reason I didn't continue to do so is because my PS3 is downstairs, and I got tired of unplugging and replugging my mouse every time I played. The mouse controls seemed fine to me when held up against the need to balance them against controller users.
Besides, they could take mouse support out, and people would just use emulators as they've been doing for years in other console shooters. There are several varieties you can buy that allow you to plug in any mouse or keyboard and even set up macros for functions, which was part of the issue we had with the Tac AR.
I'm fine with "raw mouse input" if the suit-based rotation caps are kept. |
N311V
The Southern Legion
26
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 21:11:00 -
[128] - Quote
I don't play FPS games on PC so I'd never tried KB&M before but I decided to give it a go and see what all the fuss is about.
Result - KB&M is extremely easy to use. My average KDR went from 0.5 (don't laugh I play support Logi) to around 2. The fact that I found movement awkward with a keyboard makes this four fold increase in accuracy even more significant.
I nearly stopped playing Dust due to this imbalance of control schemes and already play less. Sure I could keep using KB&M but where's the satisfaction in killing people when I know my aiming is at least 4 times easier than my opposition?
I worry that if the disparity increases further with 1.4 a lot of pad users will get frustrated and leave. Dust's population growth is currently at zero, we have an influx of 600 new players a day yet the number of people online has been flat for months. If the growth rate becomes negative we're in trouble. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
849
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 21:15:00 -
[129] - Quote
Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:
Let the controller users cripple themselves if they really want to be that lazy and not get a cheap combo deal.
I have a home theatre setup, with the ps3 on the receiver. My wife users it alot as well, so I can't just take it and put it on a small TV or monitor just to play dust with a mouse(not that I would even if I could, I like surround). Playing with a keyboard and mouse from my couch is pretty crap - i've tried. It's not a matter of buying a 'cheap combo' (because Yea, like real gamers would use cheap mice? Hah..). It's more about ergonomics and enjoyment. I'm not going to go out of my way to get a kb/m just to compete. It's a ps3, not a PC - and it's controller is a DS3, not kb/m. If I wanted kb/m, I'd go play my PC. All I'm hearing here is *I'm too lazy to learn to be competitive with a real control method*. This is an FPS. KB/M is designed for it. Devs didn't even bother making FPS for consoles until someone invented a really makeshift system with analog sticks and stuck it in Halo.
This is an FPS on a console, if it was on a PC you would be correct. Also if my knowledge is correct Goldeneye was a great FPS and it was for the N64, so it has nothing to do with Halo. Maybe your just to lazy to learn how to play a console game on a console... |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
849
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 21:18:00 -
[130] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Daxxis KANNAH wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:You know what, I'm actually going to say this.
If suit-based rotation rates and mouse rotation restrictions are removed at the same time, this game really will be nothing but EVE players. Anyone with half a brain who plays with a controller or Move will just leave.
Like it or not, this is a console game. If mouse aiming has to have a slight handicap to balance the different control methods, so be it.
I have several friends who use the mouse as it currently is, and they deal with it, and perform well. The rest of you need to man up and just adapt. Newsflash - QQ is the new HTFU How is this QQ, this is a console game not a PC game, a K/BM should not give an advantage over a DS3 especially when it is being used on the PS3. K/BM should be removed period, you bought a console game so play it like a console game HTFU or GTFO. And yes the K/BM does give an advantage over the DS3, for starters a K/BM user can turn around practically instantly and react from fire from any direction, while a DS3 has an extremely low rotation speed that reacting from any incoming fire that's not directly infront of you is a death warrant. Also a K/BM has an advantage in CQC to mid range combat because of this games heavy focus on strafing fights and not actual gunplay. The K/BM movement speed should be just as slow as the DS3 hell maybe slower, or the DS3 needs to be faster. See, that's going too far the other way to say it should be removed. Obviously this is never going to be a game that caters to mouse user's "twitch reflexes", and I'm honestly fine with that. I've used my mouse in Dust before, and the only reason I didn't continue to do so is because my PS3 is downstairs, and I got tired of unplugging and replugging my mouse every time I played. The mouse controls seemed fine to me when held up against the need to balance them against controller users. Besides, they could take mouse support out, and people would just use emulators as they've been doing for years in other console shooters. There are several varieties you can buy that allow you to plug in any mouse or keyboard and even set up macros for functions, which was part of the issue we had with the Tac AR. I'm fine with "raw mouse input" if the suit-based rotation caps are kept.
Was just trying to make a point that K/BM should be balanced with DS3 play atleast on a console. Reason i cant use M/KB is because I am far sighted and I cannot see the TV well if i am to close, on the other hand I am not spending any sum of money to play a console game as a PC game, if thats the case ill just pick up PS2 for the PC. |
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dday3six
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
118
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 21:51:00 -
[131] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:You know what, I'm actually going to say this.
If suit-based rotation rates and mouse rotation restrictions are removed at the same time, this game really will be nothing but EVE players. Anyone with half a brain who plays with a controller or Move will just leave.
Like it or not, this is a console game. If mouse aiming has to have a slight handicap to balance the different control methods, so be it.
I have several friends who use the mouse as it currently is, and they deal with it, and perform well. The rest of you need to man up and just adapt.
I'm pretty sure some EVE players would prefer it that way. |
T3chnomanc3r
Ultramarine Corp
18
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 21:53:00 -
[132] - Quote
Are you that mentally disabled? You compare Call of Doodoo BS to use of M/KB which are staples some great PC FPS franchises on like Quake, Halflife, & Unreal that ripped us screaming from comfort of our sticks to embrace mice? Without aim assistance & given framerate/lag issues mouse is no panacea same as PS Move and both are very much skill intensive not some n00b easy button.
Stick players have grown to accept the handicaps when they should be rebelling against it. Consoles chose sticks out of lazy design ease rather than trying to engineer a mouse solution and in fact years later have "invented" other motion controllers like wiimote, sixaxis, move, and kinect trying to undo the mistake, As long as aim assistance exists for twitch play you have no valid complaint. If you need extra training wheels ask CCP to follow Valve's CSGo example by adding a 180deg turn button.
DeeJay One wrote:So TL;DR is:
DS3 users can no longer compete because mouse users can do instant 360 degree turns...
Welcome to COD!
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Duck Drahko
DUST University
Ivy League
85
|
Posted - 2013.07.27 02:39:00 -
[133] - Quote
Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:
Let the controller users cripple themselves if they really want to be that lazy and not get a cheap combo deal.
I have a home theatre setup, with the ps3 on the receiver. My wife users it alot as well, so I can't just take it and put it on a small TV or monitor just to play dust with a mouse(not that I would even if I could, I like surround). Playing with a keyboard and mouse from my couch is pretty crap - i've tried. It's not a matter of buying a 'cheap combo' (because Yea, like real gamers would use cheap mice? Hah..). It's more about ergonomics and enjoyment. I'm not going to go out of my way to get a kb/m just to compete. It's a ps3, not a PC - and it's controller is a DS3, not kb/m. If I wanted kb/m, I'd go play my PC. All I'm hearing here is *I'm too lazy to learn to be competitive with a real control method*. This is an FPS. KB/M is designed for it. Devs didn't even bother making FPS for consoles until someone invented a really makeshift system with analog sticks and stuck it in Halo.
Yeah sure, when they invented the keyboard and mouse, they had FPS in mind.  The only reason we play FPS with keyboard and mouse is that that's what every PC user has been using anyway... It's effective, yes, but nobody ever bothered making an input device "designed for FPS", unless you count the latest iterations of the gamepads, which have, in fact, been designed and optimised for comfortable FPS gameplay (among other things). |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
2712
|
Posted - 2013.07.27 02:46:00 -
[134] - Quote
dday3six wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:You know what, I'm actually going to say this.
If suit-based rotation rates and mouse rotation restrictions are removed at the same time, this game really will be nothing but EVE players. Anyone with half a brain who plays with a controller or Move will just leave.
Like it or not, this is a console game. If mouse aiming has to have a slight handicap to balance the different control methods, so be it.
I have several friends who use the mouse as it currently is, and they deal with it, and perform well. The rest of you need to man up and just adapt. I'm pretty sure some EVE players would prefer it that way.
And they're idiots. Some of us who play EVE aren't actually in this to try and slant everything unfairly in our favor. |
Minor Treat
The Enclave Syndicate
Dark Taboo
24
|
Posted - 2013.07.27 02:55:00 -
[135] - Quote
CCP Wolfman wrote:A quick note. The aim assist features are tuned on a per weapon basis and we can enable/disable them on a weapon individually if we choose to. Powerful single shot weapons (listed below) have not been given the new aim assist features as we felt it would make them too powerful.
- Forge Gun
- Flaylock Pistol
- Plasma Cannon
- Sniper Rifle
- Mass Driver
- Swarm Launcher
When can we expect 1.4 to come out? a month after 1.3? i am really anxious for these adjustments in game mechanics but do what you gotta do to make the game feel better. heck i don't care if you need two months as long as it's properly done. Please let me know cause i am dying of curiosity. |
dday3six
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
121
|
Posted - 2013.07.27 03:37:00 -
[136] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:dday3six wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:You know what, I'm actually going to say this.
If suit-based rotation rates and mouse rotation restrictions are removed at the same time, this game really will be nothing but EVE players. Anyone with half a brain who plays with a controller or Move will just leave.
Like it or not, this is a console game. If mouse aiming has to have a slight handicap to balance the different control methods, so be it.
I have several friends who use the mouse as it currently is, and they deal with it, and perform well. The rest of you need to man up and just adapt. I'm pretty sure some EVE players would prefer it that way. And they're idiots. Some of us who play EVE aren't actually in this to try and slant everything unfairly in our favor.
I was talking how about some EVE players would prefer to be the only ones playing Dust. I could have been more clear on that however. |
Drogan Reeth
Free Trade Corp
52
|
Posted - 2013.07.27 04:04:00 -
[137] - Quote
Anyone that believes any console fps game doesn't have players using kb/m is seriously delusional. I use kb/m for every single fps on xbox and ps. The only thing removing support does is make ppl plug in their kb/m 3rd party converter instead of using the built in support. Alot of ppl already where using that in dust because most of the converters remove the turning limit. There is absolutly NO WAY to have an fps game on any console that doesn't have kb/m users. The only reason you are crying now is because you know they are using it, where in other games you have no clue, but they are still using it. |
RINON114
B.S.A.A.
General Tso's Alliance
346
|
Posted - 2013.07.27 04:44:00 -
[138] - Quote
FATPrincess - XOXO wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote:Lots of questions, hereGÇÖs an attempt to answer the main ones I sawGǪ
- Is there a DS3 sensitivity increase GÇô Not yet. Keep in mind I am talking about work that is still in progress and being tested. IGÇÖve found the assists do allow me to play more easily with higher sensitivity settings which is cool. This tempted me to increase them across the board but I decided we shouldnGÇÖt change too many different things all at once. You can of course still bump them up pretty high.
- Separate sensitivity setting for ADS GÇô We would like to add this, we donGÇÖt have time to in 1.4 though.
- Rotation speed modifiers on dropsuits GÇô we are currently testing the removal of rotation speed modifiers on the dropsuits. This means all suits will be able to aim at the same speed. This really only has significant impact for heavy frames. So far itGÇÖs felt good, the fatties are happy. As a side note weGÇÖre also testing an increased strafe speed for heavies as well.
- Aim assists already in the game GÇô aiming friction is still active in the game. This slows your input when close to a target so it is easier to get on and stay on target.
- Turn all aim assist off option GÇô Yes you will be able to turn off all aim assists for the pad. Currently they are all either on or off. In a future release we would like to provide low/medium/high choices.
- Mouse and rotation cap GÇô To be extra clear, the rotation speed cap is gone. This is what prevented you from turning quickly making the mouse feel sluggish and flat. It is now a lot faster, I think you will find it much improved.
- Mouse ADS speed GÇô yes it has been retuned. ADS is now faster.
- Mouse and sensitivity settings - Overall sensitivity settings are higher than they were before. Quality of mouse does make a big difference, for example, the Razer Taipan feels a lot better than the budgetastic crap mouse that I also test with.
- Mouse and aim assist GÇô The mouse gets no aim assists at all. None. Zero.
- Knives GÇô the new aim assists do not apply to knives. Melee actually has a separate aim assist system that helps you turn to strike. Currently it doesnGÇÖt apply to the knives. It is on our list to fix this.
- Testing GÇô We are testing this internally but as always the real test will be when it goes live. We would love to have test servers but currently that isnGÇÖt possible. This is one of the reasons why we have switched to this faster release cadence. We can deploy this, see the results, get your feedback, and react quickly in the next update.
Hope that helps  CCP Wolfman So the mouse will not be balanced with the controller in this aim fix. Great. Time to buy a desk, a chair, gtfo the sofa and rug and buy a goddamn KB/M. Really what you're doing here isn't fair for us console gamers. -XOXO
I used to usr kb/m sat on my bed with the keyboard on my lags and the mouse on a box. You don't need to go nuts to use the GÇ£superiorGÇ¥ control system. As it stood back in uprising 1.0 the kb/m option went to hell so now I use a controller and do just fine. Learn to play with what you have and stop using it as an excuse for your inability to play with the GÇ£kb/m guysGÇ¥ |
Musta Tornius
Cannonfodder PMC
533
|
Posted - 2013.07.27 09:28:00 -
[139] - Quote
Minor Treat wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote:A quick note. The aim assist features are tuned on a per weapon basis and we can enable/disable them on a weapon individually if we choose to. Powerful single shot weapons (listed below) have not been given the new aim assist features as we felt it would make them too powerful.
- Forge Gun
- Flaylock Pistol
- Plasma Cannon
- Sniper Rifle
- Mass Driver
- Swarm Launcher
When can we expect 1.4 to come out? a month after 1.3? i am really anxious for these adjustments in game mechanics but do what you gotta do to make the game feel better. heck i don't care if you need two months as long as it's properly done. Please let me know cause i am dying of curiosity.
Rumor has it at late August or early September, which fits in with their once a month update policy now. |
Kaze Eyrou
ROGUE SPADES
EoN.
338
|
Posted - 2013.07.27 11:35:00 -
[140] - Quote
CCP Eterne wrote:Um. Looks like somehow the blog broke the website. I'm trying to fix it XD
CCP Eterne wrote:Aaaand there we go.
Making 2 separate posts instead of editing you first...
You "like" farmer you.... 
PS: Thanks CCP Eterne! |
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Gorgoth24Reborn
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2013.07.27 15:36:00 -
[141] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:You know what, I'm actually going to say this.
If suit-based rotation rates and mouse rotation restrictions are removed at the same time, this game really will be nothing but EVE players. Anyone with half a brain who plays with a controller or Move will just leave.
Like it or not, this is a console game. If mouse aiming has to have a slight handicap to balance the different control methods, so be it.
I have several friends who use the mouse as it currently is, and they deal with it, and perform well. The rest of you need to man up and just adapt.
This. Aim assist isn't an issue to me, but tracking is. Perhaps provide a medium slot module that increases this tracking rate? Point being the KB/M shouldn't reign king |
Booker DaFooker
Seraphim Auxiliaries
89
|
Posted - 2013.07.27 16:51:00 -
[142] - Quote
There is no mention of how any of these changes will effect those using the move controller or sharpshooter. Can a dev give any insight on this please? |
hgghyujh
Expert Intervention
Caldari State
55
|
Posted - 2013.07.27 20:07:00 -
[143] - Quote
OOOHHHHHHHHHHKAY now I understand why CCP said in testing that a linear joy pad movement to onscreen speed is better then a exponential one. Its becuase they have an acceleration curve that causes the joy/move curve to emulate an exponential curve.
CCP im gonna let you in a on a secret NO GAMER LIKES ACCELERATION IN THEIR CONTROL SCHEME!
Acceleration is one of those things that was foisted on the every day computer user as the only practical means to deal with large lists and to lower the level of entry to the controls user.
HUMANS ARE HORRIBLE at understanding and interacting with acceleration, the reason that many uses of acceleration tend to happen in steps, IE you scroll up ten scroll rate increases to ten/sec you scroll one hundred scroll rate increases to 100/sec ETC... this is much easier for us to under stand as you have found in your development.
Here's that thing tho AS LONG AS ACCELERATION IS USED PRECISION IS IMPOSSIBLE! you can not repeat an action over and over and get the same result because it requires that we add one more thing to the list that has to be exactly the same every time, or our brains have to make a complex calculation they simply incapable of with out it being the focus of our attention(you know instead of tactics, the 10 no 11 now 9, thanks to a teamate that bought him 5 secs, after which 10guys that are currently aiming at them and the weapons they are using, their opponents and their own HP levels, distance to every bit of cover plus a meter so they don't stick to it like a goth that walked into an active particle accelerator...............................................................................)
TLDR;
so my recommendation is throw out acceleration for both KBM and DS3.
Give the DS3 an exponential joypos/speed curve.
return the turn limitation to KBM just make it a hard limit not an accel limit.... you know play dog fighter or starconflict (FTP if I remember), both these games have excellent KBM implementations with turn limits, and can do a better job of showing you what I mean.
EDIT: ANY turn speed limitations should be in deg/sec in game not based on controller input like they currently are. |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
485
|
Posted - 2013.07.27 21:02:00 -
[144] - Quote
As a console gamer, I do not feel allowing KB/M support on a console game is fair at all.
PS3 does not come with a gaming KB/M setup it comes with a DS3 controller.
Movement mechanics are totally different when comparing the different setups.
KB/M users, when strafing can literally stop on a dime and go the other direction without a change in speed because they can simply go from moving right > left instantly.
DS3 users must move the analog stick from far right > center > far left. This means that to shift directions we are forced to gradually slow our speed by moving back to center then gradually increase our speed to move in another direction.
These two examples are describing the differences in strafing abilities across the input methods. The effect is compounded further when you consider the KB/M users can perform instant turns at 90 degree intervals, while the DS3 takes more than twice as long to turn the same amount. Therefore even if the DS3 user has a better reaction time, it is negated in DUST 514 by his/her use of the default PS3 control input method.
This is only marginally mitigated by the fact that DS3 users have a 360 degree field of view where KB/M users as I understand do not. Given the previously stated advantages in strafing abilities combined with the faster turning abilities of KB/M users, this so called "advantage" of the DS3 is completely nullified.
In aiming the KB/M user's movement advantages work against the DS3 user's aiming mechanics which are nearly identical to the DS3 user's movement mechanics in that we must go from left > center > right to adjust our aim.
This essentially makes the DS3 users track a faster, more nimble KB/M enemy which moves completely unpredictably with slower controls, while the KB/M users enjoy tracking the slower, more predictable DS3 enemy with a more responsive, more accurate tracking input method.
In a tracking FPS like DUST 514, this creates a clear and undeniable and disparity granting advantage to KB/M users. This is completely unacceptable in a console FPS whose default input method is DS3 controller. |
Zyrus Amalomyn
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
238
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Posted - 2013.07.27 21:04:00 -
[145] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:As a console gamer, I do not feel allowing KB/M support on a console game is fair at all.
PS3 does not come with a gaming KB/M setup it comes with a DS3 controller.
Movement mechanics are totally different when comparing the different setups.
KB/M users, when strafing can literally stop on a dime and go the other direction without a change in speed because they can simply go from moving right > left instantly.
DS3 users must move the analog stick from far right > center > far left. This means that to shift directions we are forced to gradually slow our speed by moving back to center then gradually increase our speed to move in another direction.
These two examples are describing the differences in strafing abilities across the input methods. The effect is compounded further when you consider the KB/M users can perform instant turns at 90 degree intervals, while the DS3 takes more than twice as long to turn the same amount. Therefore even if the DS3 user has a better reaction time, it is negated in DUST 514 by his/her use of the default PS3 control input method.
This is only marginally mitigated by the fact that DS3 users have a 360 degree field of view where KB/M users as I understand do not. Given the previously stated advantages in strafing abilities combined with the faster turning abilities of KB/M users, this so called "advantage" of the DS3 is completely nullified.
In aiming the KB/M user's movement advantages work against the DS3 user's aiming mechanics which are nearly identical to the DS3 user's movement mechanics in that we must go from left > center > right to adjust our aim.
This essentially makes the DS3 users track a faster, more nimble KB/M enemy which moves completely unpredictably with slower controls, while the KB/M users enjoy tracking the slower, more predictable DS3 enemy with a more responsive, more accurate tracking input method.
In a tracking FPS like DUST 514, this creates a clear and undeniable and disparity granting advantage to KB/M users. This is completely unacceptable in a console FPS whose default input method is DS3 controller.
You don't play a racing game on anything but a wheel input device if you're serious about it.
Same principle here. |
IAmDuncanIdaho II
The Southern Legion
18
|
Posted - 2013.07.27 21:16:00 -
[146] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:
[...]
KB/M users, when strafing can literally stop on a dime and go the other direction without a change in speed because they can simply go from moving right > left instantly.
DS3 users must move the analog stick from far right > center > far left. This means that to shift directions we are forced to gradually slow our speed by moving back to center then gradually increase our speed to move in another direction.
[...]
I get this, makes sense, and that would cause some imbalances between controller choices we're seeing. I can't see why any of this has to be an issue. Why can't simple physics simply be applied across the board. If you write the software so that my dropsuit cannot instantly change direction (which shouldn't be possible when you factor in inertia etc.) then nobody has any disadvantage.
Maybe this is easier said than done, I dunno, I don't write software for games, but seems like mins and maxes shouldn't be applied to the controllers, but to the things being controlled. |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
485
|
Posted - 2013.07.27 21:17:00 -
[147] - Quote
Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:As a console gamer, I do not feel allowing KB/M support on a console game is fair at all.
PS3 does not come with a gaming KB/M setup it comes with a DS3 controller.
Movement mechanics are totally different when comparing the different setups.
KB/M users, when strafing can literally stop on a dime and go the other direction without a change in speed because they can simply go from moving right > left instantly.
DS3 users must move the analog stick from far right > center > far left. This means that to shift directions we are forced to gradually slow our speed by moving back to center then gradually increase our speed to move in another direction.
These two examples are describing the differences in strafing abilities across the input methods. The effect is compounded further when you consider the KB/M users can perform instant turns at 90 degree intervals, while the DS3 takes more than twice as long to turn the same amount. Therefore even if the DS3 user has a better reaction time, it is negated in DUST 514 by his/her use of the default PS3 control input method.
This is only marginally mitigated by the fact that DS3 users have a 360 degree field of view where KB/M users as I understand do not. Given the previously stated advantages in strafing abilities combined with the faster turning abilities of KB/M users, this so called "advantage" of the DS3 is completely nullified.
In aiming the KB/M user's movement advantages work against the DS3 user's aiming mechanics which are nearly identical to the DS3 user's movement mechanics in that we must go from left > center > right to adjust our aim.
This essentially makes the DS3 users track a faster, more nimble KB/M enemy which moves completely unpredictably with slower controls, while the KB/M users enjoy tracking the slower, more predictable DS3 enemy with a more responsive, more accurate tracking input method.
In a tracking FPS like DUST 514, this creates a clear and undeniable and disparity granting advantage to KB/M users. This is completely unacceptable in a console FPS whose default input method is DS3 controller. You don't play a racing game on anything but a wheel input device if you're serious about it. Same principle here.
You don't cater to PC gamers when making a console FPS "if you're serious about it."
Do they even make a "rifle" "pistol" or "BFG" input device for the PS3? No? Didn't think so. So no it is not the same principle here. You're argument is now invalid, sorry.
Honestly in a racing game you could achieve more similar results between a "steering wheel" vs "DS3" than you could in an FPS when comparing "KB/M" and "DS3".
There is a reason racing games allow both the Wheel and Control Paddle input devices, while FPS games (other than DUST 514) do not allow KB/M and Control Paddle input methods.
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INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
TYRANNY of EVIL MEN
11
|
Posted - 2013.07.27 23:16:00 -
[148] - Quote
Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:And yet again us KB/M users are shafted because CCP refuses to allow us raw input.
Instead, we get 'aim assist'. We don't need your bullshit systems, we NEED OUR MOUSE AS IT IS MEANT TO BE.
Kb/m will dominate once it works correctly as aiming is far more precise with a mouse then controller will ever be and ccp wants to avoid this in the hopes of getting kiddys with controlers, but they will all be playing destiny. |
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
TYRANNY of EVIL MEN
11
|
Posted - 2013.07.27 23:22:00 -
[149] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:As a console gamer, I do not feel allowing KB/M support on a console game is fair at all.
PS3 does not come with a gaming KB/M setup it comes with a DS3 controller.
Movement mechanics are totally different when comparing the different setups.
KB/M users, when strafing can literally stop on a dime and go the other direction without a change in speed because they can simply go from moving right > left instantly.
DS3 users must move the analog stick from far right > center > far left. This means that to shift directions we are forced to gradually slow our speed by moving back to center then gradually increase our speed to move in another direction.
These two examples are describing the differences in strafing abilities across the input methods. The effect is compounded further when you consider the KB/M users can perform instant turns at 90 degree intervals, while the DS3 takes more than twice as long to turn the same amount. Therefore even if the DS3 user has a better reaction time, it is negated in DUST 514 by his/her use of the default PS3 control input method.
This is only marginally mitigated by the fact that DS3 users have a 360 degree field of view where KB/M users as I understand do not. Given the previously stated advantages in strafing abilities combined with the faster turning abilities of KB/M users, this so called "advantage" of the DS3 is completely nullified.
In aiming the KB/M user's movement advantages work against the DS3 user's aiming mechanics which are nearly identical to the DS3 user's movement mechanics in that we must go from left > center > right to adjust our aim.
Edit: There is a "rifle" type of input called "sharpshooter" for use with the PS Move. I suspect that in operation, this input method is more in line with the DS3 than the KB/M. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
EDIT: There is a "rifle" type of input called the "sharpshooter" for use with the PS Move controller input. I suspect the operation of the Move is closer in line with the DS3 than the KB/M is, however feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
This essentially makes the DS3 users track a faster, more nimble KB/M enemy which moves completely unpredictably with slower controls, while the KB/M users enjoy tracking the slower, more predictable DS3 enemy with a more responsive, more accurate tracking input method.
In a tracking FPS like DUST 514, this creates a clear and undeniable and disparity granting advantage to KB/M users. This is completely unacceptable in a console FPS whose default input method is DS3 controller. You don't play a racing game on anything but a wheel input device if you're serious about it. Same principle here. You don't cater to PC gamers when making a console FPS "if you're serious about it." Do they even make a "rifle" "pistol" or "BFG" input device for the PS3? No? Didn't think so. So no it is not the same principle here. You're argument is now invalid, sorry. Honestly, in a racing game you could achieve more similar results between a "steering wheel" vs "DS3" than you could in an FPS when comparing "KB/M" and "DS3". There is a reason racing games allow both the Wheel and Control Paddle input devices, while FPS games (other than DUST 514) do not allow KB/M and Control Paddle input methods. That is the simple fact that the mechanical abilities of the KB/M will always be more responsive than the mechanical abilities of a console controller. EDIT: There is a "rifle" type of input called the "Sharpshooter" for use with the PSMove Controller. I cannot say how this functions, but would venture a guess that in operation it is more similar to the DS3 than to the KB/M. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Anyone who thinks the advantage lies with the ds3 controller is a complete idiot and needs their gamer card taken, mouse it twice as accurate at least, I love the mouse and it will always be superior, sincerely a ds3 user.
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Iskandar Zul Karnain
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
1444
|
Posted - 2013.07.28 01:17:00 -
[150] - Quote
Awesome, Wolfman!
I'm really looking forward to the mouse being less gimped.
All the dualshock users need to chill though. You're built in aimbots will take care of you. |
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