DUST Search - Announcement:Dev Blog: Fine-tune Aiming and Controls

Master Jaraiya wrote:

Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:

Master Jaraiya wrote:

As a console gamer, I do not feel allowing KB/M support on a console game is fair at all.

PS3 does not come with a gaming KB/M setup it comes with a DS3 controller.

Movement mechanics are totally different when comparing the different setups.

KB/M users, when strafing can literally stop on a dime and go the other direction without a change in speed because they can simply go from moving right > left instantly.

DS3 users must move the analog stick from far right > center > far left. This means that to shift directions we are forced to gradually slow our speed by moving back to center then gradually increase our speed to move in another direction.

These two examples are describing the differences in strafing abilities across the input methods. The effect is compounded further when you consider the KB/M users can perform instant turns at 90 degree intervals, while the DS3 takes more than twice as long to turn the same amount. Therefore even if the DS3 user has a better reaction time, it is negated in DUST 514 by his/her use of the default PS3 control input method.

This is only marginally mitigated by the fact that DS3 users have a 360 degree field of view where KB/M users as I understand do not. Given the previously stated advantages in strafing abilities combined with the faster turning abilities of KB/M users, this so called "advantage" of the DS3 is completely nullified.

In aiming the KB/M user's movement advantages work against the DS3 user's aiming mechanics which are nearly identical to the DS3 user's movement mechanics in that we must go from left > center > right to adjust our aim.

Edit: There is a "rifle" type of input called "sharpshooter" for use with the PS Move. I suspect that in operation, this input method is more in line with the DS3 than the KB/M. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

EDIT: There is a "rifle" type of input called the "sharpshooter" for use with the PS Move controller input. I suspect the operation of the Move is closer in line with the DS3 than the KB/M is, however feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

This essentially makes the DS3 users track a faster, more nimble KB/M enemy which moves completely unpredictably with slower controls, while the KB/M users enjoy tracking the slower, more predictable DS3 enemy with a more responsive, more accurate tracking input method.

In a tracking FPS like DUST 514, this creates a clear and undeniable and disparity granting advantage to KB/M users. This is completely unacceptable in a console FPS whose default input method is DS3 controller.

You don't play a racing game on anything but a wheel input device if you're serious about it.

Same principle here.

You don't cater to PC gamers when making a console FPS "if you're serious about it."

Do they even make a "rifle" "pistol" or "BFG" input device for the PS3? No? Didn't think so. So no it is not the same principle here. You're argument is now invalid, sorry.

Honestly, in a racing game you could achieve more similar results between a "steering wheel" vs "DS3" than you could in an FPS when comparing "KB/M" and "DS3".

There is a reason racing games allow both the Wheel and Control Paddle input devices, while FPS games (other than DUST 514) do not allow KB/M and Control Paddle input methods. That is the simple fact that the mechanical abilities of the KB/M will always be more responsive than the mechanical abilities of a console controller.

EDIT: There is a "rifle" type of input called the "Sharpshooter" for use with the PSMove Controller. I cannot say how this functions, but would venture a guess that in operation it is more similar to the DS3 than to the KB/M. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC TYRANNY of EVIL MEN 11	Posted - 2013.07.27 23:16:00 - [1] - Quote Zyrus Amalomyn wrote: And yet again us KB/M users are shafted because CCP refuses to allow us raw input. Instead, we get 'aim assist'. We don't need your bullshit systems, we NEED OUR MOUSE AS IT IS MEANT TO BE. Kb/m will dominate once it works correctly as aiming is far more precise with a mouse then controller will ever be and ccp wants to avoid this in the hopes of getting kiddys with controlers, but they will all be playing destiny.
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC TYRANNY of EVIL MEN 11	Posted - 2013.07.27 23:22:00 - [2] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Zyrus Amalomyn wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: As a console gamer, I do not feel allowing KB/M support on a console game is fair at all. PS3 does not come with a gaming KB/M setup it comes with a DS3 controller. Movement mechanics are totally different when comparing the different setups. KB/M users, when strafing can literally stop on a dime and go the other direction without a change in speed because they can simply go from moving right > left instantly. DS3 users must move the analog stick from far right > center > far left. This means that to shift directions we are forced to gradually slow our speed by moving back to center then gradually increase our speed to move in another direction. These two examples are describing the differences in strafing abilities across the input methods. The effect is compounded further when you consider the KB/M users can perform instant turns at 90 degree intervals, while the DS3 takes more than twice as long to turn the same amount. Therefore even if the DS3 user has a better reaction time, it is negated in DUST 514 by his/her use of the default PS3 control input method. This is only marginally mitigated by the fact that DS3 users have a 360 degree field of view where KB/M users as I understand do not. Given the previously stated advantages in strafing abilities combined with the faster turning abilities of KB/M users, this so called "advantage" of the DS3 is completely nullified. In aiming the KB/M user's movement advantages work against the DS3 user's aiming mechanics which are nearly identical to the DS3 user's movement mechanics in that we must go from left > center > right to adjust our aim. Edit: There is a "rifle" type of input called "sharpshooter" for use with the PS Move. I suspect that in operation, this input method is more in line with the DS3 than the KB/M. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. EDIT: There is a "rifle" type of input called the "sharpshooter" for use with the PS Move controller input. I suspect the operation of the Move is closer in line with the DS3 than the KB/M is, however feel free to correct me if I am wrong. This essentially makes the DS3 users track a faster, more nimble KB/M enemy which moves completely unpredictably with slower controls, while the KB/M users enjoy tracking the slower, more predictable DS3 enemy with a more responsive, more accurate tracking input method. In a tracking FPS like DUST 514, this creates a clear and undeniable and disparity granting advantage to KB/M users. This is completely unacceptable in a console FPS whose default input method is DS3 controller. You don't play a racing game on anything but a wheel input device if you're serious about it. Same principle here. You don't cater to PC gamers when making a console FPS "if you're serious about it." Do they even make a "rifle" "pistol" or "BFG" input device for the PS3? No? Didn't think so. So no it is not the same principle here. You're argument is now invalid, sorry. Honestly, in a racing game you could achieve more similar results between a "steering wheel" vs "DS3" than you could in an FPS when comparing "KB/M" and "DS3". There is a reason racing games allow both the Wheel and Control Paddle input devices, while FPS games (other than DUST 514) do not allow KB/M and Control Paddle input methods. That is the simple fact that the mechanical abilities of the KB/M will always be more responsive than the mechanical abilities of a console controller. EDIT: There is a "rifle" type of input called the "Sharpshooter" for use with the PSMove Controller. I cannot say how this functions, but would venture a guess that in operation it is more similar to the DS3 than to the KB/M. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Anyone who thinks the advantage lies with the ds3 controller is a complete idiot and needs their gamer card taken, mouse it twice as accurate at least, I love the mouse and it will always be superior, sincerely a ds3 user.
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 248	Posted - 2014.02.10 03:51:00 - [3] - Quote Master Smurf wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Bethhy wrote: Get rid of AA, bring back scoutz, minmatar assault suit, Open field fighting, TTK, speed tanking and the sense of achievement in actually killing someone yourself. Speed tanking isn't dead, it just evolved from literally dodging bullets to using cover tactics to the fullest. Stop trying to speed tank like you're not going to be hit ever, it will work out just fine. Do you think there is enough cover? Do you think that light frames strafe or turn quick enough to be that much better than bigger ones? I think AA and the range of some of the weapons make so speed tanking definitely a thing of the past. - An no, wasnt equating Matrix moves to speed tanking. The natural speed of the scout is sufficent, the scouts true power is in your passive radar and stealth. I run a proto dampened Dren scout with either Dren shotty or RR, both with remotes, I can do fairly well with barely 300 ehp, but I bait, I camp, I keep moving, and I try to always attack from behind, cover shouldnt be used by the scout suit to exchange fire primarily. The scout should attempt to use cover as a means to hide and track your enemy on passive until they are in the most advantageous position for you to make your kill. Remember if your dampened they will never have a clue you are there. Your natural speed will still give you the best flanking ability without tanking speed. Speed isnt best for fighting, stealth is, speed is great for grabbing objectives, but if you are using a low slot for a kin kat instead of dapening your missing out, after scanners disappear we may get back to speed but for now this is where we are.