I am so tired of seeing armor tankers complain about shields. If you dont like armor then switch. They are not the same and will never be the same. What it seems to me is armor tankers want all the benefits of shields plus keep the benefits they have now like the ability to have others repair them, higher overall hp pools, and high slots free for damage mods. Now all of that is Overpowered. Quit complaining especially Cat merc.

I am so tired of seeing armor tankers complain about shields. If you dont like armor then switch. They are not the same and will never be the same. What it seems to me is armor tankers want all the benefits of shields plus keep the benefits they have now like the ability to have others repair them, higher overall hp pools, and high slots free for damage mods. Now all of that is Overpowered. Quit complaining especially Cat merc.

Or you know...we wanna get above 500 hp too with out moving at the same speed as a heavy.

I am so tired of seeing armor tankers complain about shields. If you dont like armor then switch. They are not the same and will never be the same. What it seems to me is armor tankers want all the benefits of shields plus keep the benefits they have now like the ability to have others repair them, higher overall hp pools, and high slots free for damage mods. Now all of that is Overpowered. Quit complaining especially Cat merc.

I am so tired of seeing armor tankers complain about shields. If you dont like armor then switch. They are not the same and will never be the same. What it seems to me is armor tankers want all the benefits of shields plus keep the benefits they have now like the ability to have others repair them, higher overall hp pools, and high slots free for damage mods. Now all of that is Overpowered. Quit complaining especially Cat merc.

I agree with the points you say. But when shield people can tank shield up to an including 500+ then have low slot mods help with shield as well. they can almost always have there shields up.

Armour is slow to regen. Unless you have like 4 reppers on. Or a Proto rep tool is repping you.

.......... No we don't we DO NOT HAVE ANY BENEFITS!!! What get slow as **** and have a bit more EHP than a shield guy has ?? oohh yeah sounds great.
**** man i don't want the high recharge rate which shield dudes have. I want a major EHP tank which no shield tanker could ever get and then i want to take ages to get up to 100% armor again and we got NOTHING LIKE THAT !!!
Right now we're beeing turned into stationary guns if we go all out armor plates.
Wtf dude ok imagine your shields won't come back unless you fitted a shield recharger, aka base shield recharge would be 0.

Nooooow suddenly your tank gets a lot weaker right ??!! Now also imagine equipping a extender and your overall speed gets lower... MUCH LOWER and there you got armor tanking. You stack 5 shield extenders ... we stack 2 because after that ***** getting ridiculous.
Ohh and of course we also gotta save some slots for armor reppers.

And oohh hell no i'll put Cat Merc up on a ******* pedist..... Scractching board and have him miav all over the ******* forums until someone from CCP comes out and says **** we screwed up guys sorry..

No benefits my foot. You still get shields.

Armor is about reps. You wanna wanna wanna all you want, but big buffer is the shield paradigm.

.......... No we don't we DO NOT HAVE ANY BENEFITS!!!

Armor is about reps. You wanna wanna wanna all you want, but big buffer is the shield paradigm.

None? Really?

So you can't even think of one benefit?

Ok, lower my complex reppers CPU/Pg usage(so I can fit more then 2 on a proto suit without sacrificing everything else) or give my Gallente assault a rep bonuses like logis do.

Everyone has to sacrifice. It's why putting together a build is interesting. You can't just dump in everything you want and walk away.

Logis are supposed to be tougher to crack - they're about defense and Assaults are offense. I think Logis have too much offensive power, but that's an entirely different argument...

Everyone has to sacrifice. It's why putting together a build is interesting. You can't just dump in everything you want and walk away.

Logis are supposed to be tougher to crack - they're about defense and Assaults are offense. I think Logis have too much offensive power, but that's an entirely different argument...

I am so tired of seeing armor tankers complain about shields. If you dont like armor then switch. They are not the same and will never be the same.

..................... WROOOOOOOOONG
Shield is about mediocre overall health but you get it back very fast.
Armor tanking is about having a major armor EHP pool you can take and tank from but that pool then takes forever to get back at it's maximum aka get in shoot and tank **** and then lay low for the next minute.

WTF if armor is about high reps PLEASE give all the armor suits an inherent armor repair rate then... hmm or fix armor plates OMG logic aahh !!!!

Armor is about reps. You wanna wanna wanna all you want, but big buffer is the shield paradigm.

You're describing what you think it should be, and the reason you're upset is because CCP is continually "failing" to implement YOUR vision.

I'm describing the game that currently exists.

You can't always have ya shields up. All that stuff eats PG and CPU like crazy.

Well, I'm just saying that I'm a assault so I should be able to assault.

Once you try to fit a complex plate, or even 2 enhanced armour plates you will know what I'm talking about.

We are slow, and we have low hp...Basically...weak heavys.

Know what I support a ******* nerf to dam shields around half the hp they have right now is fair enough for how crappy armor is.

I have played Eve since 2006 , I am gallente at heart. I love my megathron , though you rarely see them fly these days in Eve.. wonder why.. * eyeballs ccp

Guess what I fly now, a kitey shield tanking gank baby makin hurricane * eyeballs ccp again

long story short : ccp favors shields, won't change

I'm sorry but this is so mindlessly stupid I have to comment. Yeah, our vision is something called "a good game". Do you honestly believe no one should complain or suggest changes because it's oversteps CCP's vision?

I am so tired of seeing armor tankers complain about shields. If you dont like armor then switch. They are not the same and will never be the same. What it seems to me is armor tankers want all the benefits of shields plus keep the benefits they have now like the ability to have others repair them, higher overall hp pools, and high slots free for damage mods. Now all of that is Overpowered. Quit complaining especially Cat merc.

Megafleet is back. It's a slightly higher damage, slighlty less range than the Rokh fleet concept.

.......... No we don't we DO NOT HAVE ANY BENEFITS!!! What get slow as **** and have a bit more EHP than a shield guy has ?? oohh yeah sounds great.
**** man i don't want the high recharge rate which shield dudes have. I want a major EHP tank which no shield tanker could ever get and then i want to take ages to get up to 100% armor again and we got NOTHING LIKE THAT !!!
Right now we're beeing turned into stationary guns if we go all out armor plates.
Wtf dude ok imagine your shields won't come back unless you fitted a shield recharger, aka base shield recharge would be 0.

Nooooow suddenly your tank gets a lot weaker right ??!! Now also imagine equipping a extender and your overall speed gets lower... MUCH LOWER and there you got armor tanking. You stack 5 shield extenders ... we stack 2 because after that ***** getting ridiculous.
Ohh and of course we also gotta save some slots for armor reppers.

And oohh hell no i'll put Cat Merc up on a ******* pedist..... Scractching board and have him miav all over the ******* forums until someone from CCP comes out and says **** we screwed up guys sorry..

Don't fit the old plates on your assault. Assaults should be fast and plates make you slow. It doesn't make sense to me to plate it up. Put on as many reps as you can fit. Assaults aren't about mega defense anyways.

OMG serriously??? did the summer ex[pansion bring them back??? I have not been on in 3 months :(

Of course you should be able to suggest improvements. But first you need to understand CCP's vision before you can suggest meaningful improvements. The current LOUD NOISES are about cut and pasting shield mechanics over to armor mechanics. "SHIELD HAS X EHP, I WANT THE SAME STATS!!" Yeah, that's balanced, but it's also stupid. Copypasta is not a foundation for good game design.

CCP isn't perfect, but they're way more competent than what an army of armchair game designers can stir up.

.......... No we don't we DO NOT HAVE ANY BENEFITS!!! What get slow as **** and have a bit more EHP than a shield guy has ?? oohh yeah sounds great.
**** man i don't want the high recharge rate which shield dudes have. I want a major EHP tank which no shield tanker could ever get and then i want to take ages to get up to 100% armor again and we got NOTHING LIKE THAT !!!
Right now we're beeing turned into stationary guns if we go all out armor plates.
Wtf dude ok imagine your shields won't come back unless you fitted a shield recharger, aka base shield recharge would be 0.

Nooooow suddenly your tank gets a lot weaker right ??!! Now also imagine equipping a extender and your overall speed gets lower... MUCH LOWER and there you got armor tanking. You stack 5 shield extenders ... we stack 2 because after that ***** getting ridiculous.
Ohh and of course we also gotta save some slots for armor reppers.

And oohh hell no i'll put Cat Merc up on a ******* pedist..... Scractching board and have him miav all over the ******* forums until someone from CCP comes out and says **** we screwed up guys sorry..

I am sure that there is a lot of variation in the amount of thought put into Armour QQ posts, and some Armour QQ posts may be completely ridiculous, but lets consider the post [Feedback] Shields > Armour GÇô A continued imbalance as the gold standard when considering the Armour vs Shield debate. As a shield tanker, with no direct ties to armour tanking, I read this post very carefully and found it to be very reasonable and balanced.

They have a valid point. Currently the benefits of Shields are greater than the benefits of armour, and the penalties for Shields are less than the penalties for armour. They should not be made the same, but they do need to be balanced. The current scenario is unbalanced. Currently if you go with armour you give up more for less benefit.

If you guys want high Armor HP, be a Heavy
You can't be an Assault and expect the HP of a Heavy. Just no. Some Armor tankers essentially want to be a Heavy without the downsides of one (turn speed, Stamina, running speed)

Were just going in circles now. If I can't equip a plate, I can't take a hit.

If I have a small buffer, and I heal 16.25 armour points per sec, how long can I survive? Whats the point?

We have to choose between dmg mods or extenders? Isn't that what caldari assaults are suppose to do? Pick having a high HP or high dmg output?

If we tank hp, we get slow, if we try to tank shields we lose dmg.

That is an excellent post in that it is thorough and politely written. That should be a baseline. But that doesn't guarantee its correctness.

It starts with the declaration that Shields are for skirmishing and Armor is for brawling. Based off of that initial assumption, OP concludes that armor is not suited for its role. My assertion is that if you consider that Shields are for brawling and Armor is for skirmishing, the way everything is designed makes much more sense, especially in Uprising 1.2 with the new ferroscale plates.

And just what exactly is CCP Shanghai's vision? Most people with an EVE background expected Dust to be similar to EVE mechanic-wise. Dust's tanking concept is the complete opposite of what EVE currently has. That isn't automatically a bad thing but it does leave some of us scratching our heads in confusion.

I agree it is confusing if it really is flipped from EVE to Dust. I would have rather they didn't do that. But I think that for better or worse, that's what happened.

EVE implants: slave = armor HP, crystal = shield boost
Dust dropsuit bonuses: caldari = shield HP, amarr = armor rep

In both games there's plenty of counter examples to support multiple playstyles. Further confusion the issue is that the old plates had more HP than the extenders - but they were also the only modules that came with big drawbacks. I think in Dust, especially given the new modules that have been released (specifically ferroscale), the evidence is that the intention is opposite.

That is an excellent post in that it is thorough and politely written. That should be a baseline. But that doesn't guarantee its correctness.

It starts with the declaration that Shields are for skirmishing and Armor is for brawling. Based off of that initial assumption, OP concludes that armor is not suited for its role. My assertion is that if you consider that Shields are for brawling and Armor is for skirmishing, the way everything is designed makes much more sense, especially in Uprising 1.2 with the new ferroscale plates.

So no talk of armor repair tools or armor repairing nanohives here? Shields don't have this kind of support from what I've seen. Did anyone ever think this is part of the whole concept of armor support and logistics.

So no talk of armor repair tools or armor repairing nanohives here? Shields don't have this kind of support from what I've seen. Did anyone ever think this is part of the whole concept of armor support and logistics.

1. It keeps a gun off the field
2. You are too reliant on the logi
3. You are forced into one spot cause triage nano haves don't move

That's the thing, if you want to brawl, you want to eat bullets and spit them back, then you need EHP... and that's shield's niche.

I'm trying to suggest that armor tanking equals a skirmish playstyle, where mobility and cover and DPS are your tank, and reps are king. Don't focus on stacking EHP, use ferroscale if you really feel like you have to.

All I'm saying is, yeah, I agree, stacking complex plates on an assault sucks. Maybe it sucks because you weren't meant to use them that way. There are other better options.

All of that is true, but an armor fit team can fit more damage mods, has a higher overall repair rate and effective HP pool, with the main downside being less mobility.

All of that is true, but an armor fit team can fit more damage mods, has a higher overall repair rate and effective HP pool, with the main downside being less mobility.

All of that is true, but an armor fit team can fit more damage mods, has a higher overall repair rate and effective HP pool, with the main downside being less mobility.

That is an excellent post in that it is thorough and politely written. That should be a baseline. But that doesn't guarantee its correctness.

It starts with the declaration that Shields are for skirmishing and Armor is for brawling. Based off of that initial assumption, OP concludes that armor is not suited for its role. My assertion is that if you consider that Shields are for brawling and Armor is for skirmishing, the way everything is designed makes much more sense, especially in Uprising 1.2 with the new ferroscale plates.

Which frankly would be more appealing in a game mode where you're tasked with the defence or seizure of a single focused objective.

In Skirmish 2.0 it doesn't have as much of a place.

...armour is most definitely meant for bawling.

I was just trying to portray that armor is most effective when run as a group, where shields benefit most on the individual level. Which is why the outright comparrison of 2 modules doesn't add up because their restoration systems work differently. Armor is slower, more static, but in theory creates a strong defense. Shields promote solo movement, speed, and non reliance at the expense of group hardness and fire power.

I'm not saying the numbers are perfect, but you can't compare an armor fit next to a shield fit without looking at other aspects.

damn its like you people cant think beyond point values heres the differences between shields and armor



Pros for shields
doesn't get slowed by shield
takes reduced damage from explosives
can move faster with Cardiac Regulators and Kinetic Catalyzers without sacrificing shields
can scan increase range without sacrificing shields
can decrease scan profile without sacrificing shields
can increase hacking speed without sacrificing shields

Cons against shields
shields cant be repaired
damage mods takes up slot for shields
prototype nanite injector you will revive with at most 100 hp
only buffer is shields
flux grenades deplete all shields
any amount of damage stops all recharge
can not increase precision without sacrificing shields
can not increase melee attack power without sacrifcing shields

Pros for armor
armor can be repaired by allies with repair tool
damage mods don't take up slot for armor
proto nanite injectors brings you back with a lot of
have a small shield buffer before hitting armor
small shield buffer negates some damage from explosives
constant repair at all times
can increase precision without sacrificing armor


Cons against armor
major armor mods slow down speed
can not increase speed without sacrificing armor
can not increase scan range without sacrificing armor
can not decrease scan profile without sacrificing armor
can not increase hacking speed without sacrificing armor
can increase melee attack power without sacrificing armor

damn its like you people cant think beyond point values heres the differences between shields and armor



Pros for shields
doesn't get slowed by shield
takes reduced damage from explosives
can move faster with Cardiac Regulators and Kinetic Catalyzers without sacrificing shields
can scan increase range without sacrificing shields
can decrease scan profile without sacrificing shields
can increase hacking speed without sacrificing shields

Cons against shields
shields cant be repaired
damage mods takes up slot for shields
prototype nanite injector you will revive with at most 100 hp
only buffer is shields
flux grenades deplete all shields
any amount of damage stops all recharge
can not increase precision without sacrificing shields
can not increase melee attack power without sacrifcing shields

Pros for armor
armor can be repaired by allies with repair tool
damage mods don't take up slot for armor
proto nanite injectors brings you back with a lot of
have a small shield buffer before hitting armor
small shield buffer negates some damage from explosives
constant repair at all times
can increase precision without sacrificing armor


Cons against armor
major armor mods slow down speed
can not increase speed without sacrificing armor
can not increase scan range without sacrificing armor
can not decrease scan profile without sacrificing armor
can not increase hacking speed without sacrificing armor
can increase melee attack power without sacrificing armor

I am so tired of seeing armor tankers complain about shields. If you dont like armor then switch. They are not the same and will never be the same. What it seems to me is armor tankers want all the benefits of shields plus keep the benefits they have now like the ability to have others repair them, higher overall hp pools, and high slots free for damage mods. Now all of that is Overpowered. Quit complaining especially Cat merc.

You're missing the fact armour has to split lows between plates and reppers. This tends to result in lower EHP, lower speed and a repair rate that is usually outpaced by shields within 10 seconds. 15 on depleted. In practice with current CalLogi/CalAssault within 5 seconds, 8 for depleted. Worse buffer than shields, worse recovery, worse speed. Can completely forego recovery to go snailmode for superior buffer but as this affects turning speed your aiming is completely screwed by it.

Actually, for CalAssault, the outpacing likely occurs on the first tick somewhere between 2.8 to 3.5 seconds. The recharge timer is also bugged and not resetting right now.

Low slots are also where PG and CPU boosters reside, this is a big deal.

Shield Regulators also go in lows, think you missed that.


There are pros and cons to each. Do they balance out? Hell no, shields do most of what armour is supposed to do better.

I was just trying to portray that armor is most effective when run as a group, where shields benefit most on the individual level. Which is why the outright comparrison of 2 modules doesn't add up because their restoration systems work differently. Armor is slower, more static, but in theory creates a strong defense. Shields promote solo movement, speed, and non reliance at the expense of group hardness and fire power.

I'm not saying the numbers are perfect, but you can't compare an armor fit next to a shield fit without looking at other aspects.

I would like to give feedback to the shield users regarding my experiances as a logi bro for heavys using a level 5 repper that I immediatly skilled into in order to give the heavies in my clan the chance to dominate in point defence.

As you would suspect @ 104 hps regen a heavy is a monster in point defence with me supporting and is difficult to take down to small arms fire.

However the level 5 repper is almost completly useless due to the fact that you have explosives that do 600 dmg a time and or flaylocks that hit so fast and hard that the repper is completly usless as well.

You don't need a team of guys to take out what should be very formidable set up defence. You need one fast guy with thuckers or core locus grens duval and flaylock combo and you will wipe out dps the heavy who hasnt got the speed to dodge or to react as fast as you with his grens and guns. And by the time the poor logi swaps form his uless repping tool to his gun hes going to be dead to.

A logi / Heavy should be the hardest thing combo to take down on point defence. But you dont need a special stratergy you dont need to flank you just need to get in throw a couple of grens or fire your core flaylock and job done. And not only is this stratergy superb for CQC and attacking defences guess what its equally good defending areas to.

You can react quicker you dont have to worry about getting away from your 10 meter leash or exposing your partner to fire. And any slow moving heavy coming in you can laugh at throw your grens or blast him with your core flaylock wether he is being repped by a lot or not and expect to put him down in no seconds flat.

The heavy has no defence in cqc against weapons that can be used anywhere on the battelfield. And make repping or even high hit points a joke. AOE explosives are way to powerfull in this game for repping to work. And hence high hp's with realy high hit point regen are nullified absolutly with flaylock and grenades.

Shield tankers are good in every situation and due to manoverablity and the fact that you are the most resistant to explosvies best in open and in cqc. Due to your speed good planing and the ability to leap over ledges and fences mean that fluxes can be survived if you have good reflexes or planed an exit. Heavies cannot dodge they cannot jump to safty they can only absorbe punishment and they cannot abosrt the crazy amount of damage that grenades and core flaylocks can do.

And the best thing is that grenades and fore flaylock work best in confiend quaters. Guess where the heavy is supposidly the master of yeh closed quaters.

The reason shields are superior is that they work the best in virtually all situations. Amour is week in the open and due to weapons like the core flaylcok extreemly weak and vunrable in defence and close quaters to.

I have changed from a logi bro to a drop link re/ammo bro due to the fact that in PC where the elite play repping has a negilable impact I cant keep my guys alive so I have to make sure they have somewhere to come back to as quick as possible. The complete opposit of what I was doing in the chormozone build.

thats a trade off

whats the point of having armor and shields if they could both attain the same amount of hp and repair armor would be outrageously OP at that point since armor would be able to get repaired while shields wont

maybe im just ahead of the curve on this subject

i see shields as a large hp speed scan solo player
while i see armor as high damage medium hp team oriented defense type

Shields are not setup for a brawling style of play, and armour most certainly does not work well for a skirmishing style of play. To make your assertion work they would have to fundamentally change the nature of Shields and Armour, and then they would not line up with EVE where armour is most definitely meant for bawling.

thats a trade off

whats the point of having armor and shields if they could both attain the same amount of hp and repair armor would be outrageously OP at that point since armor would be able to get repaired while shields wont

maybe im just ahead of the curve on this subject i myself prefer armor when paired with a logi it presents outstanding results being revived with 210 hp plus the combined repair rate of 56 hp per second makes me a force to be reckoned with

I am so tired of seeing armor tankers complain about shields. If you dont like armor then switch. They are not the same and will never be the same. What it seems to me is armor tankers want all the benefits of shields plus keep the benefits they have now like the ability to have others repair them, higher overall hp pools, and high slots free for damage mods. Now all of that is Overpowered. Quit complaining especially Cat merc.

What's the point of having armor and shields if they could both attain the same amount of hp? The point if they can not be AT LEAST comparable, then Dust has made 2 of the 4 playable races useless.

So if two different dropsuit has a different amount of HP, the lower one is useless? So, you are saying no other stat matters?

+1 and AGREE with everything including the player put on blast! Lol!

Okay, lets go with the other stats, Armor tanking reduces your overall speed, making your strafe not as effective. Armor reduces your ability to increase your sprint speed as they both use the same slot. Shield tanks are sacrificing damage mods, but they can also be faster, run longer, walk stealthier and hack faster. Now tell me which is better

Okay, lets go with the other stats, Armor tanking reduces your overall speed, making your strafe not as effective. Armor reduces your ability to increase your sprint speed as they both use the same slot. Shield tanks are sacrificing damage mods, but they can also be faster, run longer, walk stealthier and hack faster. Now tell me which is better

That's because you're still trying to use armor plates to get max EHP. That's the shield niche. Use reps and then check the numbers again.

And correction - shield tanks sacrifice damage mods for speed OR endurance OR stealth (lol) OR hack speed (again, lol). In reality, they usually fit none of those.

Reps won't keep you alive through any actual fight. You won't regen HP fast enough to beat the increased buffer of a shield suit with extenders even with damage mods without a logi glued to you. So unless your suggestion is for it to take 2 players to make 1 capable armor character it doesn't work. Not to mention this makes it easier to be alpha'd by locus grenades and flaylocks making regen irrelevant.

Your theory is true assuming two people meet up face to face and stand still, holding down their triggers until one person falls down. That's pretty much brawling and the type of combat Caldari shields are for. If you like that playstyle, you'll find Caldari better suited to it. That's okay, different races are suited to different things. If all the races were the same, it'd be pointless to have four different races.

Edit: Also, since this is the "regen" tanking style, why is my HP/s with 4 complex mods on an assault gk.0 the same as the base shield regen on a ck.0 without even going into the fact that the ck.0 can actually fit buffer as well or further enhance their regen?

Because like many people other people, for whatever reason, you disregard the fact that armor suits get almost the same base regen as a "shield" suit (0 during combat, 20-25 out of combat). My armor reps are on top of shield regen that all other suits have. Shield suits don't have little to no armor regen.

In combat - armor suits are continuously repping, shield suits aren't. Out of combat, shield suits are regenning your EHP, but armor suits are regenning AND repping, mitigating combat damage twice as fast.

Are we a bit testy today????

You're describing what you think it should be, and the reason you're upset is because CCP is continually "failing" to implement YOUR vision.

I'm describing the game that currently exists.

So during the 10s depleted delay, which I'm more likely to encounter as I have less shields, my regen is only 25hp/s. This is less than 1 round from any AR, less than 2 from SMG's or 3 from HMG's. My regen is cancelled out by any weapon in under 0.12 seconds and each has the DPS to kill a no buffer gk.0 in under ~1.1s. By the time you hit the 2s mark you are dead with 8s to go before your shield regen kicks in.

Damage projection is at a level where current amounts of regen are pointless without high mobility, which armor tanks still cannot invest in. Meanwhile shield tanks can invest in regen, buffer, and mobility at the same time to enhance the ability to skirmish, which is what you say armor is for.

This underscores the fact that regen isn't an encounter survivability tool, it a means to recover between encounters. Shield can do survivability better and recovery better while armor, as you say it should be used, doesn't last long enough for the regen to be an asset under fire.

Terra Thesis, on your assumption that armour is, in fact, for skirmishing:

A movement penalty clearly flies in the face of that idea.
Biotic modules can't be fitted by armour tankers without compromising tank.
Assuming skirmishing is more hit and run warfare, that goes much better with shield tankers, who have a delay on their regen - essentially, they do their hit, duck into cover and regen.
One of armour's strong points is holding a position, as remote armour repair tools allow logistics to set up and help the others. This is much more difficult to move around - it's not feasible to 'skirmish' when carrying around a logibro.

I'm not sure who you're responding to. You put my name on there, but I'm not talking about wearing slow plates and getting a logi. But sure, I agree, if you stack plates and have a logi following you, it's doesn't make sense to skirmish.

Armor is about reps. You wanna wanna wanna all you want, but big buffer is the shield paradigm.

Yes, you mitigate about 0.12 seconds of DPS over 1 second, assuming two people standing in front of each other with no cover unloading their weapons. If it was significantly higher than that, everyone would run out of ammo before anyone died. Your math assumes you're going to stand in the line of fire against an ck.0, holding down the trigger until someone drops. I'm not claiming reps will allow you to stand in front of a AR and just eat it.

When I say skirmish style combat, I mean that you're not staying in the line of fire. You take shots when you're on their flank and you cover or reposition when they're sending bullets your way. You recover faster between encounters, because you have shield regen as well as armor regen, whereas a shield user only has shield regen. A shield user can absorb more lead upfront, but over a sustained period of time, you can stay in the action more.

In my experience, gallente has plenty of mobility - all you need to do is to duck into cover before you die. Only minmatar goes faster. There aren't a lot of things that can one-shot even a base medium frame (mostly headshots and high level sniper rifles).

I am responding to your posts in general, and perhaps particularly the earlier post.
Remote armour repairers are one of the best things about armour - if actually attempting to increase your HP and/or using rep tools prevents you from skirmishing, why do you believe it's about skirmishing?

Can we please stop with the crying? I am an armor tanker and I have never ONCE thought that a single dropsuit had too much shield for me to handle. Slow movement speed...wah wah wah. Cry me a river. All I care about is being able to jump over one of those stupid yellow railings.

Oh no...he strafes faster than me. Sounds like an excuse that you can't aim...If your movement is slow, then call in a LAV for TRANSPORT instead of using it to run people over. There is a thought!

Because local reps don't require multiple players to coordinate, and don't cause your team to lose a gun off the field, and in general is a lot easier to make work (in my opinion).

None? Really?

So you can't even think of one benefit?

There are very few to armour tanking

You're literraly coming to the point of saying I should be expected as an armor tanker to always maintain a 10 to 1 ratio of regen time vs combat time without enhanced mobility. You are literally telling us to not take damage.

And funny thing is that you overlook the fact that shield tankers needn't have these same demands. Yet they can do the same things you say armor tanker should, only better due to enhancing mobility through modules, enhancing buffer to allow greater survival under fire, and faster regen and delay reduction to get back into the action and being a useable team asset faster.

They have the same speed as the Caldari and the Min are shield tankers. The Amarr are the only ones that the Gallente beat. As far as tactics the issue is that they are the same ones shield tankers can use and they can make superior use of them. Yes, your strategies make armor tanking potentially more workable, when you have a positional advantage, but they still work better with shields, which also can be fit to have an easier time getting that positional advantage.

You accused me at one point of ignoring factors, you seem determined to do the same here.

The key here is that shield users DON'T have better regen. You're forgetting again that armor dropsuits have a significant shield system as a baseline. Shield suits have slightly better regen if you only look at the shield system, but looking at the overall dropsuit, armor suits configured for reps have better overall regen.

Again - So armour tankers have to shield tank to work?

Again - So armour tankers have to shield tank to work?

25hp per second after ten seconds is 250, great(if you can actually fit that on a assault)

10 secs on a depleted caldari assault?(less if there is regulators) nearly all shields are almost instantly restored.

You know what? I'm not here to argue that Gallente is OP or UP compared to Caldari or anything else. I certainly have no problem if you buff the hell out of Gallente or armor. I only came here to say that I felt Gallente currently played much better if you treated it as a skirmishy armor rep rather than an slow as balls EHP mini tank, and I'd rather any balance to reflect this difference in playstyle. Anything else I've said, I apologize and please allow me to retract.

Yes, I'm saying reps work better in low DPS scenarios. The purpose of playing a skirmish style is to minimize incoming DPS by taking cover frequently and dragging out the combat window.

The key here is that shield users DON'T have better regen. You're forgetting again that armor dropsuits have a significant shield system as a baseline. Shield suits have slightly better regen if you only look at the shield system, but looking at the overall dropsuit, armor suits configured for reps have better overall regen. This means a shield suit can try to play the skirmish style, but they will be outlasted. It's not a hard counter by any means, but the advantage is definitely on the side of the suit that can rep up twice as fast.

Minmatar assault are shields, but logi is armor. Amarr suits are pretty evenly balanced between both systems. Minmatar's speed works well as a shield skirmish, but they don't have the EHP of the Caldari that everyone is comparing against. That's why people choose Caldari over Minmatar for stand-up brawling. Minmatar has less base HP than a Gallente suit. In my opinion, Minmatar and Gallente work the same way, fast and

You're absolutely right about mobility and the Cardiac Regulator (I hope you're not talking about the Kincat, I don't think that mod is useful for anyone except knifers). I am constantly running out of stam on my Gallente. Although, I think I should just train up for em and sacrifice that last repper - it's always a ***** to fit anyways. I think I still have a point, but it does put a dent in my numbers.

You know what? I'm not here to argue that Gallente is OP or UP compared to Caldari or anything else. I certainly have no problem if you buff the hell out of Gallente or armor. I only came here to say that I felt Gallente currently played much better if you treated it as a skirmishy armor rep rather than an slow as balls EHP mini tank, and I'd rather any balance to reflect this difference in playstyle. Anything else I've said, I apologize and please allow me to retract.

You know what? I'm not here to argue that Gallente is OP or UP compared to Caldari or anything else. I certainly have no problem if you buff the hell out of Gallente or armor. I only came here to say that I felt Gallente currently played much better if you treated it as a skirmishy armor rep rather than an slow as balls EHP mini tank, and I'd rather any balance to reflect this difference in playstyle. Anything else I've said, I apologize and please allow me to retract.

But thats what I'm telling you, I've try rep tanking, its not a viable strategy.

Okay. Well, at least you tried it. I guess we'll just have to keep playing our own ways.

What you don't don't realise is that these are all tankers who know both sides of the argument