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Abron Garr
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
549
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Posted - 2013.07.02 15:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
Terra Thesis wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:Or you know...we wanna get above 500 hp too with out moving at the same speed as a heavy. Armor is about reps. You wanna wanna wanna all you want, but big buffer is the shield paradigm.
If you're talking about EVE, you have it backwards. Armor is the buffer paradigm even before you add slaves. You can overheat invulns to temporarily get a greater resistance boost, but if you add slaves that advantage disappears. If CCP wants to do the complete opposite in Dust, I'm fine with that, but I'm more willing to give credence to Dust being an unfinished product and CCP Shanghai's unfamiliarity with EVE mechanics rather than saying it's "working as intended".
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Abron Garr
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
549
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 15:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Terra Thesis wrote:Den-tredje Baron wrote:..................... WROOOOOOOOONG Shield is about mediocre overall health but you get it back very fast. Armor tanking is about having a major armor EHP pool you can take and tank from but that pool then takes forever to get back at it's maximum aka get in shoot and tank **** and then lay low for the next minute. WTF if armor is about high reps PLEASE give all the armor suits an inherent armor repair rate then... hmm or fix armor plates  OMG logic aahh !!!! You're describing what you think it should be, and the reason you're upset is because CCP is continually "failing" to implement YOUR vision. I'm describing the game that currently exists.
I'm sorry but this is so mindlessly stupid I have to comment. Yeah, our vision is something called "a good game". Do you honestly believe no one should complain or suggest changes because it's oversteps CCP's vision? |
Abron Garr
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
551
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 15:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Knightshade Belladonna wrote:I have played Eve since 2006 , I am gallente at heart. I love my megathron , though you rarely see them fly these days in Eve.. wonder why.. * eyeballs ccp
Guess what I fly now, a kitey shield tanking gank baby makin hurricane * eyeballs ccp again
long story short : ccp favors shields, won't change
Megafleet is back. It's a slightly higher damage, slighlty less range than the Rokh fleet concept. |
Abron Garr
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
551
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 16:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Knightshade Belladonna wrote:Abron Garr wrote:Knightshade Belladonna wrote:I have played Eve since 2006 , I am gallente at heart. I love my megathron , though you rarely see them fly these days in Eve.. wonder why.. * eyeballs ccp
Guess what I fly now, a kitey shield tanking gank baby makin hurricane * eyeballs ccp again
long story short : ccp favors shields, won't change Megafleet is back. It's a slightly higher damage, slighlty less range than the Rokh fleet concept. OMG serriously??? did the summer ex[pansion bring them back??? I have not been on in 3 months :(
Yeah, the current coalition war in the southwest is experiencing a lot of old and new doctrines.
Terra Thesis wrote:Abron Garr wrote:I'm sorry but this is so mindlessly stupid I have to comment. Yeah, our vision is something called "a good game". Do you honestly believe no one should complain or suggest changes because it's oversteps CCP's vision? Of course you should be able to suggest improvements. But first you need to understand CCP's vision before you can suggest meaningful improvements. The current LOUD NOISES are about cut and pasting shield mechanics over to armor mechanics. "SHIELD HAS X EHP, I WANT THE SAME STATS!!" Yeah, that's balanced, but it's also stupid. Copypasta is not a foundation for good game design. CCP isn't perfect, but they're way more competent than what an army of armchair game designers can stir up.
And just what exactly is CCP Shanghai's vision? Most people with an EVE background expected Dust to be similar to EVE mechanic-wise. Dust's tanking concept is the complete opposite of what EVE currently has. That isn't automatically a bad thing but it does leave some of us scratching our heads in confusion. |
Abron Garr
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
551
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 16:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
Terra Thesis wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:I am sure that there is a lot of variation in the amount of thought put into Armour QQ posts, and some Armour QQ posts may be completely ridiculous, but lets consider the post [Feedback] Shields > Armour GÇô A continued imbalance as the gold standard when considering the Armour vs Shield debate. As a shield tanker, with no direct ties to armour tanking, I read this post very carefully and found it to be very reasonable and balanced. They have a valid point. Currently the benefits of Shields are greater than the benefits of armour, and the penalties for Shields are less than the penalties for armour. They should not be made the same, but they do need to be balanced. The current scenario is unbalanced. Currently if you go with armour you give up more for less benefit. That is an excellent post in that it is thorough and politely written. That should be a baseline. But that doesn't guarantee its correctness. It starts with the declaration that Shields are for skirmishing and Armor is for brawling. Based off of that initial assumption, OP concludes that armor is not suited for its role. My assertion is that if you consider that Shields are for brawling and Armor is for skirmishing, the way everything is designed makes much more sense, especially in Uprising 1.2 with the new ferroscale plates.
Amarr isn't a skirmishing race, but neither is Caldari for that matter. I think you're trying to assign to logic what was in reality a CCP screw up. It can be easily fixed, and the ferroscale plates are a major step in the right direction.
Like many things in Dust, the tanking paradigm wasn't given much thought, or CCP was overwhelmed with other matters and put it on the back burner for later, now they're coming back to it and feedback is important. |
Abron Garr
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
551
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 16:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
Terra Thesis wrote:Abron Garr wrote:And just what exactly is CCP Shanghai's vision? Most people with an EVE background expected Dust to be similar to EVE mechanic-wise. Dust's tanking concept is the complete opposite of what EVE currently has. That isn't automatically a bad thing but it does leave some of us scratching our heads in confusion. I agree it is confusing if it really is flipped from EVE to Dust. I would have rather they didn't do that. But I think that for better or worse, that's what happened. EVE implants: slave = armor HP, crystal = shield boost Dust dropsuit bonuses: caldari = shield HP, amarr = armor rep In both games there's plenty of counter examples to support multiple playstyles. Further confusion the issue is that the old plates had more HP than the extenders - but they were also the only modules that came with big drawbacks. I think in Dust, especially given the new modules that have been released (specifically ferroscale), the evidence is that the intention is opposite.
If that is their intention then they need to save themselves a ton of headache in the future by reversing it now. Adding EVE's drawbacks is necessary IMO. Unfortunately, they would have to be tweaked to make sense in Dust. |
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