That is an excellent post in that it is thorough and politely written. That should be a baseline. But that doesn't guarantee its correctness.

It starts with the declaration that Shields are for skirmishing and Armor is for brawling. Based off of that initial assumption, OP concludes that armor is not suited for its role. My assertion is that if you consider that Shields are for brawling and Armor is for skirmishing, the way everything is designed makes much more sense, especially in Uprising 1.2 with the new ferroscale plates.

Which frankly would be more appealing in a game mode where you're tasked with the defence or seizure of a single focused objective.

In Skirmish 2.0 it doesn't have as much of a place.

...armour is most definitely meant for bawling.

I was just trying to portray that armor is most effective when run as a group, where shields benefit most on the individual level. Which is why the outright comparrison of 2 modules doesn't add up because their restoration systems work differently. Armor is slower, more static, but in theory creates a strong defense. Shields promote solo movement, speed, and non reliance at the expense of group hardness and fire power.

I'm not saying the numbers are perfect, but you can't compare an armor fit next to a shield fit without looking at other aspects.

damn its like you people cant think beyond point values heres the differences between shields and armor



Pros for shields
doesn't get slowed by shield
takes reduced damage from explosives
can move faster with Cardiac Regulators and Kinetic Catalyzers without sacrificing shields
can scan increase range without sacrificing shields
can decrease scan profile without sacrificing shields
can increase hacking speed without sacrificing shields

Cons against shields
shields cant be repaired
damage mods takes up slot for shields
prototype nanite injector you will revive with at most 100 hp
only buffer is shields
flux grenades deplete all shields
any amount of damage stops all recharge
can not increase precision without sacrificing shields
can not increase melee attack power without sacrifcing shields

Pros for armor
armor can be repaired by allies with repair tool
damage mods don't take up slot for armor
proto nanite injectors brings you back with a lot of
have a small shield buffer before hitting armor
small shield buffer negates some damage from explosives
constant repair at all times
can increase precision without sacrificing armor


Cons against armor
major armor mods slow down speed
can not increase speed without sacrificing armor
can not increase scan range without sacrificing armor
can not decrease scan profile without sacrificing armor
can not increase hacking speed without sacrificing armor
can increase melee attack power without sacrificing armor

damn its like you people cant think beyond point values heres the differences between shields and armor



Pros for shields
doesn't get slowed by shield
takes reduced damage from explosives
can move faster with Cardiac Regulators and Kinetic Catalyzers without sacrificing shields
can scan increase range without sacrificing shields
can decrease scan profile without sacrificing shields
can increase hacking speed without sacrificing shields

Cons against shields
shields cant be repaired
damage mods takes up slot for shields
prototype nanite injector you will revive with at most 100 hp
only buffer is shields
flux grenades deplete all shields
any amount of damage stops all recharge
can not increase precision without sacrificing shields
can not increase melee attack power without sacrifcing shields

Pros for armor
armor can be repaired by allies with repair tool
damage mods don't take up slot for armor
proto nanite injectors brings you back with a lot of
have a small shield buffer before hitting armor
small shield buffer negates some damage from explosives
constant repair at all times
can increase precision without sacrificing armor


Cons against armor
major armor mods slow down speed
can not increase speed without sacrificing armor
can not increase scan range without sacrificing armor
can not decrease scan profile without sacrificing armor
can not increase hacking speed without sacrificing armor
can increase melee attack power without sacrificing armor

I am so tired of seeing armor tankers complain about shields. If you dont like armor then switch. They are not the same and will never be the same. What it seems to me is armor tankers want all the benefits of shields plus keep the benefits they have now like the ability to have others repair them, higher overall hp pools, and high slots free for damage mods. Now all of that is Overpowered. Quit complaining especially Cat merc.

You're missing the fact armour has to split lows between plates and reppers. This tends to result in lower EHP, lower speed and a repair rate that is usually outpaced by shields within 10 seconds. 15 on depleted. In practice with current CalLogi/CalAssault within 5 seconds, 8 for depleted. Worse buffer than shields, worse recovery, worse speed. Can completely forego recovery to go snailmode for superior buffer but as this affects turning speed your aiming is completely screwed by it.

Actually, for CalAssault, the outpacing likely occurs on the first tick somewhere between 2.8 to 3.5 seconds. The recharge timer is also bugged and not resetting right now.

Low slots are also where PG and CPU boosters reside, this is a big deal.

Shield Regulators also go in lows, think you missed that.


There are pros and cons to each. Do they balance out? Hell no, shields do most of what armour is supposed to do better.

I was just trying to portray that armor is most effective when run as a group, where shields benefit most on the individual level. Which is why the outright comparrison of 2 modules doesn't add up because their restoration systems work differently. Armor is slower, more static, but in theory creates a strong defense. Shields promote solo movement, speed, and non reliance at the expense of group hardness and fire power.

I'm not saying the numbers are perfect, but you can't compare an armor fit next to a shield fit without looking at other aspects.

I would like to give feedback to the shield users regarding my experiances as a logi bro for heavys using a level 5 repper that I immediatly skilled into in order to give the heavies in my clan the chance to dominate in point defence.

As you would suspect @ 104 hps regen a heavy is a monster in point defence with me supporting and is difficult to take down to small arms fire.

However the level 5 repper is almost completly useless due to the fact that you have explosives that do 600 dmg a time and or flaylocks that hit so fast and hard that the repper is completly usless as well.

You don't need a team of guys to take out what should be very formidable set up defence. You need one fast guy with thuckers or core locus grens duval and flaylock combo and you will wipe out dps the heavy who hasnt got the speed to dodge or to react as fast as you with his grens and guns. And by the time the poor logi swaps form his uless repping tool to his gun hes going to be dead to.

A logi / Heavy should be the hardest thing combo to take down on point defence. But you dont need a special stratergy you dont need to flank you just need to get in throw a couple of grens or fire your core flaylock and job done. And not only is this stratergy superb for CQC and attacking defences guess what its equally good defending areas to.

You can react quicker you dont have to worry about getting away from your 10 meter leash or exposing your partner to fire. And any slow moving heavy coming in you can laugh at throw your grens or blast him with your core flaylock wether he is being repped by a lot or not and expect to put him down in no seconds flat.

The heavy has no defence in cqc against weapons that can be used anywhere on the battelfield. And make repping or even high hit points a joke. AOE explosives are way to powerfull in this game for repping to work. And hence high hp's with realy high hit point regen are nullified absolutly with flaylock and grenades.

Shield tankers are good in every situation and due to manoverablity and the fact that you are the most resistant to explosvies best in open and in cqc. Due to your speed good planing and the ability to leap over ledges and fences mean that fluxes can be survived if you have good reflexes or planed an exit. Heavies cannot dodge they cannot jump to safty they can only absorbe punishment and they cannot abosrt the crazy amount of damage that grenades and core flaylocks can do.

And the best thing is that grenades and fore flaylock work best in confiend quaters. Guess where the heavy is supposidly the master of yeh closed quaters.

The reason shields are superior is that they work the best in virtually all situations. Amour is week in the open and due to weapons like the core flaylcok extreemly weak and vunrable in defence and close quaters to.

I have changed from a logi bro to a drop link re/ammo bro due to the fact that in PC where the elite play repping has a negilable impact I cant keep my guys alive so I have to make sure they have somewhere to come back to as quick as possible. The complete opposit of what I was doing in the chormozone build.

thats a trade off

whats the point of having armor and shields if they could both attain the same amount of hp and repair armor would be outrageously OP at that point since armor would be able to get repaired while shields wont

maybe im just ahead of the curve on this subject

i see shields as a large hp speed scan solo player
while i see armor as high damage medium hp team oriented defense type

Shields are not setup for a brawling style of play, and armour most certainly does not work well for a skirmishing style of play. To make your assertion work they would have to fundamentally change the nature of Shields and Armour, and then they would not line up with EVE where armour is most definitely meant for bawling.

thats a trade off

whats the point of having armor and shields if they could both attain the same amount of hp and repair armor would be outrageously OP at that point since armor would be able to get repaired while shields wont

maybe im just ahead of the curve on this subject i myself prefer armor when paired with a logi it presents outstanding results being revived with 210 hp plus the combined repair rate of 56 hp per second makes me a force to be reckoned with

I am so tired of seeing armor tankers complain about shields. If you dont like armor then switch. They are not the same and will never be the same. What it seems to me is armor tankers want all the benefits of shields plus keep the benefits they have now like the ability to have others repair them, higher overall hp pools, and high slots free for damage mods. Now all of that is Overpowered. Quit complaining especially Cat merc.

What's the point of having armor and shields if they could both attain the same amount of hp? The point if they can not be AT LEAST comparable, then Dust has made 2 of the 4 playable races useless.

So if two different dropsuit has a different amount of HP, the lower one is useless? So, you are saying no other stat matters?

+1 and AGREE with everything including the player put on blast! Lol!

Okay, lets go with the other stats, Armor tanking reduces your overall speed, making your strafe not as effective. Armor reduces your ability to increase your sprint speed as they both use the same slot. Shield tanks are sacrificing damage mods, but they can also be faster, run longer, walk stealthier and hack faster. Now tell me which is better

Okay, lets go with the other stats, Armor tanking reduces your overall speed, making your strafe not as effective. Armor reduces your ability to increase your sprint speed as they both use the same slot. Shield tanks are sacrificing damage mods, but they can also be faster, run longer, walk stealthier and hack faster. Now tell me which is better

That's because you're still trying to use armor plates to get max EHP. That's the shield niche. Use reps and then check the numbers again.

And correction - shield tanks sacrifice damage mods for speed OR endurance OR stealth (lol) OR hack speed (again, lol). In reality, they usually fit none of those.

Reps won't keep you alive through any actual fight. You won't regen HP fast enough to beat the increased buffer of a shield suit with extenders even with damage mods without a logi glued to you. So unless your suggestion is for it to take 2 players to make 1 capable armor character it doesn't work. Not to mention this makes it easier to be alpha'd by locus grenades and flaylocks making regen irrelevant.

Your theory is true assuming two people meet up face to face and stand still, holding down their triggers until one person falls down. That's pretty much brawling and the type of combat Caldari shields are for. If you like that playstyle, you'll find Caldari better suited to it. That's okay, different races are suited to different things. If all the races were the same, it'd be pointless to have four different races.

Edit: Also, since this is the "regen" tanking style, why is my HP/s with 4 complex mods on an assault gk.0 the same as the base shield regen on a ck.0 without even going into the fact that the ck.0 can actually fit buffer as well or further enhance their regen?

Because like many people other people, for whatever reason, you disregard the fact that armor suits get almost the same base regen as a "shield" suit (0 during combat, 20-25 out of combat). My armor reps are on top of shield regen that all other suits have. Shield suits don't have little to no armor regen.

In combat - armor suits are continuously repping, shield suits aren't. Out of combat, shield suits are regenning your EHP, but armor suits are regenning AND repping, mitigating combat damage twice as fast.