Essentially what it boils down to is that Shield recharge on a Logi is 20 HP/s so after the 6 second delay it starts recharging. Thereby, it will recharge 100 HP in ten seconds. For armor to compete, it has to be able to restore 10 HP/s. This balances them out at 10 seconds, but Shield still maintains superiority in time between gunfire.

Problem with that is that armor repairs even in battle, so if the person is a bad shot, all the shields in the world won't help.

So, we need to buffer armor out so that it's worth having the slow repair. I.e. more HP. If armor tankers are king at absorbing bullets, then the movement penalty is negligible. Unfortunately, most of the issue with shield vs armor tanking revolves around the suits themselves and certain races (Gallente) receive useless ads bonuses.

Bear in mind that certain suits have faster recharge times as well. A level 5 Caldari assault has 31.25 without modules attached.

Just as well another factor is that Shield regulators reduce the time delay, so it's plausible that a Caldari Assault can recharge (with a five second delay as its base) 215 shields in 10 seconds with a single complex regulator that does not take away from its tanking abilities.

Essentially it's not so farfetched as to allow armor tankers to have a -LOT- more HP and retain the movement speed penalty.

well it was just a penalty numbers could get worked out a bit. Then the offset would be to make 'small extenders' that don't stress the rechargers. Also the penalty itself could be a 'multiplier.'

Plus throw in a Shield Refibulator Equipment for Logis to use to kick start a players shields. Getting them back into action faster.

But I'd say giving 2 much of a potential rep is a mistake when you consider armor heavy won't have a delay. For example a armor tanked person with a rep rate of 5 (let's pretend 2 guys fighting have 500 EHP in their respective tanks with none in the other) is hit for 300 and inflicts 200 on his shield tanked opponent. The shield tank must find 6 seconds of cover while the armor tank will be able to regen 30 hp before his opponent even begins to regen not to mention any armor regained during the course of the actually encounter...any fights that were close would be won by an armor tanker if each person was hitting every bullet and has approximate ehp. Furthermore if I as an armor tanker manage to reset the shield tankers delay multiple times he gains an advantage. one spray and pray bullet can delay 100 shield regen.

You realize 30 HP is like, one Militia Assault Rifle round, right? It dishes out 12.5 rounds a second. If anything, I'd still say that shield tankers got an advantage.

As an experiment, I threw on 3 Complex Plates on my gallente assault suit to try it out and I can turn fast enough to land shots on Caldari assault suits at <20m. They simply out-strafe my gunfire. -30% isn't worth the 350 extra armor if I can't defend myself.

Welp first off you need to get good. No one ever uses complex plates...not competitively anyways. You only ever use basic and stack them to reduce the move penalty. They don't outstrafe mine. they just tank me...if you can't hit a caldari logi's strafe speed sucks to be you trying to fight a caldari assault who can fit 550 shields (130 below the logi) and still maintain 200 armor at a higher strafe/move speed. The caldari whores are using 5 shield extenders and 3 basic armor plates with either a cpu upgrade or a shield regulator. They have 1k hp and because the movement penalties suffer stacking penalties the move speed on a caldari logi with 1k ehp will be like 4.4 i believe. and that 30 hp is still more than the shield guy. XD and you failed to add in any other armor gained in the course of the exchange.

can you elaborate Iron on "accelaeration on infantry?" I feel i'm missing context.

First of all - don't ever make the assumption that losing a fight means the player isn't good. I didn't assume that...you said you couldn't aim...

Second, it was three complex plates as an experiment. Nothing more, nothing less.

Cars don't start at 0 and go full speed instantly, neither do tanks nor dropships.

Infantry should follow that rule but albitly it should be a relative short gap between starting to run and max speed much much shorter than the LAVs. After all the rule is followed when falling, so it should be applied while starting from crotch to full stride. The most notable for acceleration would be changing direction or stopping (intertia) however this is probably why it was a hated feature in red orchestra is that it probably killed the 'circle dance' strafing. Which is something many real world scenarios don't do because its more of the fact that you can only afford to get hit once so dancing in a circle the open is extremely stupid.

The Heavy suit would be the slowest to get to full speed but this would allow to give the heavy similar speed to the assault suit instead but give it worse acceleration so it takes them longer to get to the same speeds.

and with that going to bed.

Updated the OP.

Armor is physical, and heavy, in order to absorb impact and protect the wearer. It's the way it is going to be.

I see complaints, but I also see choices. If the PG competes with the desire for a certain weapon, that's a choice. We don't always get to have everything exactly the way we want it.

Seriously, underneath game mechanics being fixed, people will just have to deal with the fact they can't have everything they want at the same time.

The rate of turn penalty on plates (for aiming) should go away entirely imo.

Turning while running/sprinting could remain in though.

However I am extremely iffy on acceleration on infantry, Red Orchestra did it and it was not viewed extremely favorably.

My Idea is as follows - First of all, no movement penalties on any armor anything, Dig? Here's some numbers, they're probably a little on th high side so just use it as reference.

Next, armor plating - High slot.

Basic - 5% damage reduction to armor
Advanced - 10% damage reduction to armor.
Prototype - 15% damage reduction to armor.
Stacking penalties apply


Armor Re-enforcement - Low slot

20hp - 40hp - 60hp


Armor repair - lowslot

2hp/sec - 4hp/sec - 6hp/sec - or whatever it is now... I swear I don;t really care.

Now armor tanking is unique and not copy and paste half assed shield tanking that has to be carried. Also putting the plating resistance module in the Highslot keeps shield tankers from fully dual tanking without sacrificing a slot that could be used for an extender and those suits built for armor tanking with limited high slots from stacking too many.

Kneel, before McDustingham.... Kneel

Reactive plates are basically shield extenders (low HP, self repairing), but with less HP, and movement penalty. Needs to have as much HP as their shield extender counterpart, or else you're just better off using shield extenders.
On the plus side, shields are more costly to fit than the new plates, so even though shields are superior to reactive plates, the plates are easier to fit. I can see how that can be useful.

Ferroscale plates need to have more HP than their shield extender counterparts, they may not have movement penalty (neither do shields), but they still can't repair themselves unlike shields, so they should have more HP to make up for that.

The fitting costs compared to the regular armor plates are terrible for the reactives and ferroscales; they have to sacrifice HP to get what little advantages they possess, increased fitting cost on top of that is unnecessary.

How are CCP so bad at balancing? this is just common sense.

My Idea is as follows - First of all, no movement penalties on any armor anything, Dig? Here's some numbers, they're probably a little on th high side so just use it as reference.

Next, armor plating - High slot.

Basic - 5% damage reduction to armor
Advanced - 10% damage reduction to armor.
Prototype - 15% damage reduction to armor.
Stacking penalties apply


Armor Re-enforcement - Low slot

20hp - 40hp - 60hp


Armor repair - lowslot

2hp/sec - 4hp/sec - 6hp/sec - or whatever it is now... I swear I don;t really care.

Now armor tanking is unique and not copy and paste half assed shield tanking that has to be carried. Also putting the plating resistance module in the Highslot keeps shield tankers from fully dual tanking without sacrificing a slot that could be used for an extender and those suits built for armor tanking with limited high slots from stacking too many.

Kneel, before McDustingham.... Kneel

I would prefer if CCP moved Armor Repair Modules to a High Slot Module as it would:
- allow Armor Tankers to spread out their modules a bit (like Shield Tankers with Shield Regulators)
- it would make Shield Tankers have to sacrifice an Shield Extender or Recharger, or a Damage Mod to be able to get Armor Reps.

The fact that all the new Armor Modules are also Low Slots doesn't help Armor as:
- all Armor Modules take up Low Slots, creating bloat
- all Armor takes up a huge amount of PG, and PG boosting Modules are also Low Slots

I messed with your tool a little bit and I made these numbers.

This assumes Gallente and Amarr suits will receive buffs to their suits to mitigate speed penalties, and enhance their usage of armor plates to put them on equal footing to shield tanking.

http://postimg.org/image/7bm3wn1r5/

This assumes all suits will remain as is.

http://postimg.org/image/dtf15gean/