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New Plate Stats, some comparisons, need debating and deliberation.

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Aeon Amadi Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 1487	Posted - 2013.06.12 06:48:00 - [1] - Quote Just theoretically fit a Caldari Logi (proto) with 5 Complex Shield Extenders and 4 Complex Ferroscale Plates. Certain skills at level five allow the following stats: 5HP/s passive armor repair (caldari medium frame skill) 20HP/s passive shield recharge (Dropsuit base) 670 Shields 352 Armor No movement penalty Honestly considering that none of New plates come with whopping HP increases it still doesn't make up for 20HP/s recharge on shields. Stay out of fire for all of ten seconds and you've recovered 80 HP after the shield delay as to nothing for armor. Armor needs to be able to withstand lengthy engagements while shields need to pull back after a bit to recover. It's simply an issue that shields have no penalty whereas armor still comes out on bottom even with Ferroscales because they just can't replenish the damage fast enough. Retrievable aren't the answer. Regular armor plates need a reduced penalty to be worthwhile simply because 240 shields will always recharge faster than 240 armor because of how the game works. Starting to think this game will never be balanced being as the new plates just gave shield tankers more options to put in their utility lows and the armor tankers are just going to be worse in the whole because of MOVEMENT PENALTY - STILL.
Aeon Amadi Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 1488	Posted - 2013.06.12 08:08:00 - [2] - Quote Jastad wrote: and if we change what armor do and add drawback to Shield? Example: Adding armor a % of damage reduction and giving shield module gaining a (low) % of more damage PROTO ARMOR PLATE 25% of damage red and 10% speed red PROTO SHIELD EXT stat's the same but add a 5% of the damage taken. If armor took away from stamina and shields increased profile, I'd say that's a fair trade.
Aeon Amadi Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 1489	Posted - 2013.06.12 08:33:00 - [3] - Quote Jastad wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Jastad wrote: and if we change what armor do and add drawback to Shield? Example: Adding armor a % of damage reduction and giving shield module gaining a (low) % of more damage PROTO ARMOR PLATE 25% of damage red and 10% speed red PROTO SHIELD EXT stat's the same but add a 5% of the damage taken. If armor took away from stamina and shields increased profile, I'd say that's a fair trade. Thats another good thing, from my point of view Scan profile is not a big cons, couse if you see him first but cant kill him due to his shield this dont solve anything But here comes the main problem. Armor need a module for regain what is lost in a gunfight. and thats is the biggest CONS because the rep Module go in the same slot as armor mod.And the Rep rate with TWO PROTO REP is worse than a BASE recharge Dropsuit And simply add 3/4 shot of AR and gaining weakness that armor has simply is not worth Essentially what it boils down to is that Shield recharge on a Logi is 20 HP/s so after the 6 second delay it starts recharging. Thereby, it will recharge 100 HP in ten seconds. For armor to compete, it has to be able to restore 10 HP/s. This balances them out at 10 seconds, but Shield still maintains superiority in time between gunfire. Problem with that is that armor repairs even in battle, so if the person is a bad shot, all the shields in the world won't help. So, we need to buffer armor out so that it's worth having the slow repair. I.e. more HP. If armor tankers are king at absorbing bullets, then the movement penalty is negligible. Unfortunately, most of the issue with shield vs armor tanking revolves around the suits themselves and certain races (Gallente) receive useless ads bonuses. Bear in mind that certain suits have faster recharge times as well. A level 5 Caldari assault has 31.25 without modules attached. Just as well another factor is that Shield regulators reduce the time delay, so it's plausible that a Caldari Assault can recharge (with a five second delay as its base) 215 shields in 10 seconds with a single complex regulator that does not take away from its tanking abilities. Essentially it's not so farfetched as to allow armor tankers to have a -LOT- more HP and retain the movement speed penalty.
Aeon Amadi Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 1489	Posted - 2013.06.12 08:58:00 - [4] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Jastad wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Jastad wrote: and if we change what armor do and add drawback to Shield? Example: Adding armor a % of damage reduction and giving shield module gaining a (low) % of more damage PROTO ARMOR PLATE 25% of damage red and 10% speed red PROTO SHIELD EXT stat's the same but add a 5% of the damage taken. If armor took away from stamina and shields increased profile, I'd say that's a fair trade. Thats another good thing, from my point of view Scan profile is not a big cons, couse if you see him first but cant kill him due to his shield this dont solve anything But here comes the main problem. Armor need a module for regain what is lost in a gunfight. and thats is the biggest CONS because the rep Module go in the same slot as armor mod.And the Rep rate with TWO PROTO REP is worse than a BASE recharge Dropsuit And simply add 3/4 shot of AR and gaining weakness that armor has simply is not worth Essentially what it boils down to is that Shield recharge on a Logi is 20 HP/s so after the 6 second delay it starts recharging. Thereby, it will recharge 100 HP in ten seconds. For armor to compete, it has to be able to restore 10 HP/s. This balances them out at 10 seconds, but Shield still maintains superiority in time between gunfire. Problem with that is that armor repairs even in battle, so if the person is a bad shot, all the shields in the world won't help. So, we need to buffer armor out so that it's worth having the slow repair. I.e. more HP. If armor tankers are king at absorbing bullets, then the movement penalty is negligible. Unfortunately, most of the issue with shield vs armor tanking revolves around the suits themselves and certain races (Gallente) receive useless ads bonuses. Bear in mind that certain suits have faster recharge times as well. A level 5 Caldari assault has 31.25 without modules attached. Just as well another factor is that Shield regulators reduce the time delay, so it's plausible that a Caldari Assault can recharge (with a five second delay as its base) 215 shields in 10 seconds with a single complex regulator that does not take away from its tanking abilities. Essentially it's not so farfetched as to allow armor tankers to have a -LOT- more HP and retain the movement speed penalty. But I'd say giving 2 much of a potential rep is a mistake when you consider armor heavy won't have a delay. For example a armor tanked person with a rep rate of 5 (let's pretend 2 guys fighting have 500 EHP in their respective tanks with none in the other) is hit for 300 and inflicts 200 on his shield tanked opponent. The shield tank must find 6 seconds of cover while the armor tank will be able to regen 30 hp before his opponent even begins to regen not to mention any armor regained during the course of the actually encounter...any fights that were close would be won by an armor tanker if each person was hitting every bullet and has approximate ehp. Furthermore if I as an armor tanker manage to reset the shield tankers delay multiple times he gains an advantage. one spray and pray bullet can delay 100 shield regen. You realize 30 HP is like, one Militia Assault Rifle round, right? It dishes out 12.5 rounds a second. If anything, I'd still say that shield tankers got an advantage. As an experiment, I threw on 3 Complex Plates on my gallente assault suit to try it out and I cant turn fast enough to land shots on Caldari assault suits at <20m. They simply out-strafe my gunfire. -30% isn't worth the 350 extra armor if I can't defend myself.
Aeon Amadi Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 1489	Posted - 2013.06.12 09:11:00 - [5] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: You realize 30 HP is like, one Militia Assault Rifle round, right? It dishes out 12.5 rounds a second. If anything, I'd still say that shield tankers got an advantage. As an experiment, I threw on 3 Complex Plates on my gallente assault suit to try it out and I can turn fast enough to land shots on Caldari assault suits at <20m. They simply out-strafe my gunfire. -30% isn't worth the 350 extra armor if I can't defend myself. Welp first off you need to get good. No one ever uses complex plates...not competitively anyways. You only ever use basic and stack them to reduce the move penalty. They don't outstrafe mine. they just tank me...if you can't hit a caldari logi's strafe speed sucks to be you trying to fight a caldari assault who can fit 550 shields (130 below the logi) and still maintain 200 armor at a higher strafe/move speed. The caldari whores are using 5 shield extenders and 3 basic armor plates with either a cpu upgrade or a shield regulator. They have 1k hp and because the movement penalties suffer stacking penalties the move speed on a caldari logi with 1k ehp will be like 4.4 i believe. and that 30 hp is still more than the shield guy. XD and you failed to add in any other armor gained in the course of the exchange. First of all - don't ever make the assumption that losing a fight means the player isn't good. Biggest mistake ever. Second, it was three complex plates as an experiment. Nothing more, nothing less.

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