@Cross
Sorry man was not meant in your response, i quote your think to integrate my post
Sorry again for been unclear, but was very very late when i made the reply



Sorry but I disagree
Shield will still Have high Mobility and fast recharge. And that is the only way to NOT make armr and shield the same think, that kill variety.
And have weapos that do 75 % vs shield like it was for armor.

From my point of view a MMOFPS, with equip and all, mean that there are some situation that you simply can't avoid death.

Let's make an example, if i engage a Heavy in cqc i MUST die (there are exception but thats another story) right now i can kill a Heavy with 0 effort.

if you have a Suit that has no weakness is like playing rock-scissor-paper and then changing the game in rock-scissor-paper-nuclear strike

I ask if you find right that Ar-tankers have to carry flux hades,choose between scrambler or AR and shield tank don't have to bother of what weapon choose because EVERYTHING kill armor?

The only way to making both tanking effective but different from each other is HARD SPEC weap DMG so a weapon cant be effective Vs shield and Vs Armor

@Cross
Sorry man was not meant in your response, i quote your think to integrate my post
Sorry again for been unclear, but was very very late when i made the reply

I never called it a shield tank, I called it a dual tank. Also Amarr and Gallente are predominantly armor tanks, I was just pointing out that the Amarr has shields to prove that no class is suited for one tanking style alone.

Here's this week's update on issues and suggestions that the dev team discussed.

[FEEDBACK] Ferroscale and Reactive plates stats https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=86664&find=unread
Update: We will improve on getting info regarding changes and new features out to players sooner and also monitor community feedback on the new items after they get the chance to try it in game.

Well I played with the numbers a little using the existing IWS's spread sheet this morning and this is what I came up with.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Aje8xVYW4a2VdHdhVk9wMGZrUDZLdXNuUTFuelgyaEE&output=html

(couldn't figure out how to tack it onto his)

Explosives should do 100/100 to shield and armor unless they make flux grenades work like locus grenades, same with mass drivers and flaylocks until they release the anti shield variant of these weapons.

I personally don't have a problem with the new plate stats.

However, since we're getting another lowslot that repairs armor, I think non-militia armor repair units need to be changed to a highslot and repair significantly more hp/s

reative is wayy to much pg there i mean i get it being more PG, and i like the hp number sure, but when a suit has 66 base ish pg more than 20 on 1 module is way to much
especially since amarr is armor liking and scramblers are 20 pg

it's just too much logi are like the only ones that could hope to fit one and not seriously screw wit the fit

I messed with your tool a little bit and I made these numbers.

This assumes Gallente and Amarr suits will receive buffs to their suits to mitigate speed penalties, and enhance their usage of armor plates to put them on equal footing to shield tanking.

http://postimg.org/image/7bm3wn1r5/

This assumes all suits will remain as is.

http://postimg.org/image/dtf15gean/

All the numbers you suggested are really wonky and hurt my eyes to sort through this number soup.

What do you mean another low slot? And moving anything armor related to high slots does nothing positive

Reactive plates will repair armor

Moving reps to a highslot would allow players to fill their low slots with plates, and still have decent armor regen.

Ferroscales do not bring anything to the table to be worth using with your stats, although the have no movement penalty they have a pretty high CPU/PG cost and the HP is rather low. The CPU/PG costs of reactives are insanely high, I understand your suggesting that plates aren't meant to be stacked, in your opinion, but if that's the case whats the difference between your plates and our plates since our plates can't be stacked either. The HP for reactives is also way to high, they should fall in line with the HP of shield extenders and have very low speed penalties to make it useful for medium armor suits, or front-line suits.

Overall your stats have more penalties than the plates we have now, reactives are rather OP even though they can't be stacked, and instead of balancing it just flips the switch as to why armor tanks cannot compete with shield tanks. Instead of not being able to compete in terms of speed penalties and resistances, it would be the level of weapons and equipment we CAN'T equip because our modules will be hogging all of our resources.

IMO the best balance for the armor would be

Normal plates: High HP-High speed penalty-Low CPU/PG

Ferroscale plates: Medium HP-No penalty-Highest CPU/PG costs (Not by much)

Reactive plates: Low HP-Repair half of a repairer of same tier-Medium CPU/PG costs

Armor repairers: no HP- High repair 2/4/6- CPU/PG costs between reactives and ferroscale.

Wonky is balancing Armor Plates off of only 2 of the games Racial Types to begin with. Even more so when you attempt to balance off of things that aren't in game and may never be.

You cannot balance off of assumptions and parts of a whole or you will never have balance.

I started creating these numbers by tweaking the numbers for the Standard Armor Plates for Each Tier. I achieved perfect balance for these. All the Plates offer the Same HP/Fitting, so you are only paying for more Raw HP as you progress up the Tier, and accordingly accrue more of a speed penalty. This is how Armor should be.

From there I gave the Repairers a slight buff.

Afterward I balanced the Ferroscale Plates off of the Standard Plates. The offer less Raw HP at a greater Fitting Cost just like they should.

Then I turned to the Reactive Plates. I used the Numbers from all of the above to balance these. The HP they offer falls in between the Ferroscale and Standard Plates as it should. The Reps are slightly less than the Repairers, and the speed penalty is less than that of Standard Plates.

If you notice in all 4 categories it is beneficial now to progress through the Tiers and acquire the Complex modules. Whereas currently the standard Basic Armor Plate offers better HP/Fitting. Also take note that each module type progresses evenly up the tiers just as it should. There are no sudden leaps in amount of HP or Fitting Cost etc.

So honestly I have no Idea what you mean when you say my numbers are "wonky"

Ferroscale plates are supposed to do exactly that! They have a decent amount of HP with NO speed penalty. You can't have your cake and eat it to.

Compared to all your numbers the ferroscale plates give the lowest HP per CPU/PG based on your stats.

I never said you shouldn't be able to stack Reactive Plates, you should simply be ready to invest a very large amount of SP to be able to. I do not think one should simply be able to get a proto Suit and stack as many of whatever module they wish, without speccing into any secondary or tertiary skills to make it possible. They Fitting cost is "Insanely high" because the benefits they offer warrant such a cost.

A Gallente assault suit has 79 PG at all skills level 5. Stacking 4 complex reactive plates costs 84 PG. Shields are highly beneficial and do not warrant costs such as these, even though they have low HP compared to your stats at least they can equip a weapon.

Your argument is frankly full of contradictions. In one sentence you say that the stats I suggest are to penalizing, then you turn around and say the stats make Plates OP.

The CPU/PG stats are penalizing, and reducing them would make them OP via High HP, pretty much everything is just to high. I hope that is clearer.

Just because you CAN equip something onto your suit, does not make it profitable. Likewise if you CAN'T equip something, it probably means you need to invest into optimization skills in order to be able to.

I don't expect people to be able to get an advanced suit and stack Complex Reactive Plates on it accordint to my numbers. One must invest much SP because of the benefits they offer. That means Having a very good suit with Dropsuit Core Upgrades, Electronics, and Engineering skills built up. That means speccing into your Weapon Fitting Optimization skills. Like I said they shouldn't be available to every single player. You must invest some serious SP.

I currently have about 6.4 mil SP with Armor Skills all at 5, but I don't expect to be able to use the Complex Reactives for quite some time based on these numbers. I don't mind this because it adds to the depth of character development.

Even with all stats at level 5 it is impossible to stack more than 3 of these plates and be competitive in battle, based on your PG costs, only suit that could stack plates effectively is a Gallente logi but even then they have barely any room for shields or a gun above basic.

IMO the best balance for the armor would be

Normal plates: High HP-High speed penalty-Low CPU/PG

Ferroscale plates: Medium HP-No penalty-Highest CPU/PG costs (Not by much)

Reactive plates: Low HP-Repair half of a repairer of same tier-Medium CPU/PG costs

agreed


Makes no sense for the Armor Module with NO speed penalty to have MEDIUM HP compared to other Armor Modules, or for them to have the HIGHEST Fitting Cost for offering the Least overal benefit.

No movement penalty is a very high benefit, the CPU/PG costs should also be High to compensate for the medium HP but I don't mean super high just on average higher than the other armor modules.


Makes no sense for Plates with a speed penalty (albeit lower than standard plates' penalty) to have the LOWEST HP. Also makes no sense for Armor Plates that offer a significant amount of HP+Reps with a slight speed penalty NOT to have the highest fitting cost as they offer the most overall benefit.

By low HP I mean the same as, or around the same as, shield extenders. With half the repair as a repairer stacking 4 complex reactives with 66 HP and 3 HP/s = 264 HP and 12 HP/s and a low penalty in speed, stacking 2 armor plates and 2 complex repairers would give Higher HP and more penalty, but the same HP/s. The Low CPU/PG costs is account for the lower possible CPU/PG costs that combining armor plates and repairers would have. The benefit of reactives would obviously be simpler stacking and lower speed penalty.

I would concede that the numbers for Reactives may be to high and will adjust these. I don't want to make them to squishy though.


That being said how do you feel about my proposed numbers for the other modules?