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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jastad
Eliters
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
12
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Posted - 2013.06.12 07:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Just theoretically fit a Caldari Logi (proto) with 5 Complex Shield Extenders and 4 Complex Ferroscale Plates.
Certain skills at level five allow the following stats:
5HP/s passive armor repair (caldari medium frame skill)
20HP/s passive shield recharge (Dropsuit base)
670 Shields
352 Armor
No movement penalty
Starting to think this game will never be balanced being as the new plates just gave shield tankers more options to put in their utility lows and the armor tankers are just going to be worse in the whole because of MOVEMENT PENALTY - STILL.
This is a real problem, the new plate must be High slot, to prevent Shield tankers from gain the major benefit from the new plate.
And speed reduct. need to be reworked |
Jastad
Eliters
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
12
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Posted - 2013.06.12 08:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
and if we change what armor do and add drawback to Shield?
Example:
Adding armor a % of damage reduction and giving shield module gaining a (low) % of more damage
PROTO ARMOR PLATE 25% of damage red and 10% speed red
PROTO SHIELD EXT stat's the same but add a 5% of the damage taken.
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Jastad
Eliters
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
12
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Posted - 2013.06.12 08:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Jastad wrote:and if we change what armor do and add drawback to Shield?
Example:
Adding armor a % of damage reduction and giving shield module gaining a (low) % of more damage
PROTO ARMOR PLATE 25% of damage red and 10% speed red
PROTO SHIELD EXT stat's the same but add a 5% of the damage taken.
If armor took away from stamina and shields increased profile, I'd say that's a fair trade.
Thats another good thing, Scan profile is not a big cons, couse if you see him first but cant kill him due to his shield this dont solve anything
But here comes the main problem.
Armor need a module for regain what is lost in a gunfight. and thats is the biggest CONS because the rep Module go in the same slot as armor mod.And the Rep rate with TWO PROTO REP is worse than a BASE recharge Dropsuit
And simply add 3/4 shot of AR and gaining weakness that armor has simply is not worth
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Jastad
Eliters
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
12
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 08:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I think a creative shield extender penalty would be a penalty to not only signature radius but increased delay in shield recharge.
The more extenders you shove on yourself the longer it takes to kick back in from damage.
I think that will kill Shield tank.
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Jastad
Eliters
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
12
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 08:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
@Aeon
i think that just a big RAW hp bonus don't solve the problem for me, the main issue is EVERYTHING gets bonus vs Armor, so whats the point in having a 115 hp- even 200- that will simply go down faster and still need a Module to repair
from my point of view ARMOR should take a LOT of damage but SLOW mov fro cons.
Shield should take less DMG but high mobility
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Jastad
Eliters
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
12
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 09:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
@Zatara
I partially agree with what you said ( Tank have this issue) but you need to add another thin to all what Aeon said, the fact the most of the DMG weap do better damage on Armor than shields, and you have another part of the problem.
I think a % of damg red with a reworked speed cons work better, and the only Cons that doesn't kill Shield tank is a low increment % of damage taken
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Jastad
Eliters
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
12
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 12:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:Armor is physical, and heavy, in order to absorb impact and protect the wearer. It's the way it is going to be.
I see complaints, but I also see choices. If the PG competes with the desire for a certain weapon, that's a choice. We don't always get to have everything exactly the way we want it.
Seriously, underneath game mechanics being fixed, people will just have to deal with the fact they can't have everything they want at the same time.
Crash the problem is that don't absorb impact (more damage from Locus,flylock, Mass etc etc ) and dont protect because you are like a statue in a pidgeon conclave
Jokes Apart, I love this game because of his character creation, that can make your char REAL yours.
So we are doing it fro the sake of the game, for have more variety in it.
Right now dont exit one thing that ARMOR tank can do better than Shield tank. That Kill all the variety in the game |
Jastad
Eliters
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
14
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 01:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
The only why is to HARD tune the dmg weapon:
Example:
AR 75 % dmg vs armor, keeping the low regen and actual value spd reduct dmg .
MD and EXPLOS 150 % dmg vs ARMOR or you could give Laser an armor pierce ability etc etc
etc etc ( i put just 2 exmp, )
and surprise surprise, with this ALL weapon find their place.
Because now your team need a Explo expert to kill Armor tankers in PC, and this add a WHOLE new world of possibility.
Not only shield logi that run from A-B-C-D but also a Hardcore defense.
This will also make dropship useful, because you can drop your Heavy armored team on a letter guarded by ARdropsuit and kill them all.
The only balance that we must do if we choose this way is to force Heavy drop suit n Heavy weap, or they become un-killable
With this the ROCK-PAPER-SCISSOR WORK
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Jastad
Eliters
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
14
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 09:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
@Cross
Sorry man was not meant in your response, i quote your think to integrate my post
Sorry again for been unclear, but was very very late when i made the reply
BL4CKST4R wrote: You have just nerfed Shields to death and made armor OP as hell.
Sorry but I disagree
Shield will still Have high Mobility and fast recharge. And that is the only way to NOT make armr and shield the same think, that kill variety.
And have weapos that do 75 % vs shield like it was for armor.
From my point of view a MMOFPS, with equip and all, mean that there are some situation that you simply can't avoid death.
Let's make an example, if i engage a Heavy in cqc i MUST die (there are exception but thats another story) right now i can kill a Heavy with 0 effort.
if you have a Suit that has no weakness is like playing rock-scissor-paper and then changing the game in rock-scissor-paper-nuclear strike
I ask if you find right that Ar-tankers have to carry flux hades,choose between scrambler or AR and shield tank don't have to bother of what weapon choose because EVERYTHING kill armor?
The only way to making both tanking effective but different from each other is HARD SPEC weap DMG so a weapon cant be effective Vs shield and Vs Armor |
Jastad
Eliters
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
14
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 14:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
@Black
Sorry for beeing unclear, it was very very late for my timezone when i made the REPLY.
No i dont want ALL weapon do more dmg vs shield, i suggest a fine tune
AR 75 % Dmg vs AR
Laser 120 VS AR
AR 120 Vs shield
laser 75 vs shield
Or normal Ar 75 an breach AR 95 etc
The numbers above are only for exem.
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Jastad
Eliters
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
26
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Posted - 2013.06.19 00:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Re-Upppin the topic.
PLEASE ccp let's us know YOUR way of thinking and YUR problems ( i don't know, like-example-: ok guys we like Noc or Jastad aide but we cant make it right now because we need to change code and that is possible only with major update.) |
Jastad
Eliters
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
32
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Posted - 2013.06.22 20:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
This are drastic change...
If we move repp from low to high we need to rework ALL the suit slot.
The first thing is to move the new plate on hight sloth, otherwise the Shield tank gain the major benefit.
I think it's time to make the weap do very different % on damage on shield and armor. With this all weapon become finally viable and armor tank become finally usefull.
Two problem with one solution |
Jastad
Eliters
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
32
|
Posted - 2013.06.23 11:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Jastad wrote:This are drastic change...
If we move repp from low to high we need to rework ALL the suit slot.
The first thing is to move the new plate on hight sloth, otherwise the Shield tank gain the major benefit.
I think it's time to make the weap do very different % on damage on shield and armor. With this all weapon become finally viable and armor tank become finally usefull.
Two problem with one solution Actually there are easier ways to make it so shield tanks do not gain a huge benefit from the new armor modules. That would be making them with high CPU/PG but giving Amarr and Gallente a reduction in CPU/PG racially. Moving new plates to High slots is actually a penalty not a benefit, a higher dependency on armor means that explosive damage will hurt us even more than it does now. We need shields to have a quick buffer to that damage. The only weapons that need their % damage changed is explosive weapons.
The problem right now is that CCP told us that they can't give specific racial bonus, but the racial bonus apply to all suit |
Jastad
Eliters
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
32
|
Posted - 2013.06.23 13:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:I don't get CCP on this subject, they say they can't but aside from the suit bonus all races have different bonuses.
I think because they work like a cluster.
Generc ASS frame (apply the same bonus)
sub cluster Gal frame (specific bonus) |
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