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New Plate Stats, some comparisons, need debating and deliberation.

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Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 5078	Posted - 2013.06.12 02:09:00 - [1] - Quote This is taken from the 2013 E3 Trailer, this video can be easily a month old and thus ergo speculation. So note these are not final stats. Nor are these stats are accounting for skills. Current assumption is that all the new plates use the plate skills thus receive HP bonus. Ferroscale Plates Increases maximum strength of drop suit's armor with no penalty to movement speed. Basic Ferroscale Plates 15 CPU 2 Grid 25 HP 500 isk Enhanced Ferroscale Plate 27 CPU 7 Grid 40 HP 2415 isk Complex Ferroscale Plate 39 CPU 14 Grid 60 HP 3,915 isk Reactive Plates Increases dropsuit armor strength and armor repair rate with penalty to movement. Basic Reactive Plates 10 CPU 4 Grid 15 HP 1% Penalty 1 HP/s 900 isk Enhanced Reactive Plates 24 CPU 9 Grid 25 HP 2% Penalty 1 HP/s 2,415 isk Complex Reactive Plates 36 CPU 16 Grid 45 HP 4% Penalty 2 HP/s 3945 isk And to put some things in perspective Standard Armor Plates Basic Armor Plates 10 CPU 1 Grid 65 HP 3% Penalty 500 isk Enhanced Armor Plates 20 CPU 6 Grid 87 HP 5% Penalty 2415 isk Complex Armor Plates 30 CPU 12 Grid 115 HP 10% Penalty 3,945 isk (previously 7320) Kinetic Catalyzers Basic Kinetic Catalyzer 15 CPU 10 Grid Speed Bonus 5% 675 Isk Enhanced Kinetic Catalyzer 18 CPU 12 Grid Speed Bonus 8% 1815 Isk Complex Kinetic Catalyzer 27 CPU 15 Grid Speed Bonus 12% 2955 Isk Armor Repairers Basic Armor Repairer 20 CPU 1 Grid 2 HP/s Enhanced Armor Repairer 35 CPU 5 Grid 3 HP/s Complex Armor Repairer 45 CPU 11 Grid 5 HP/s Finallly Shield Extenders Basic Shield Extender 18 CPU 3 Grid 22 HP Enhanced Shield Extender 36 CPU 6 Grid 33 HP Complex Shield Extender 54 CPU 11 Grid 66 HP Debate, compare, value weigh, and deliberate amongst yourselves about the new modules so we can get foundation for serious feedback before or after Uprising 1.2.
BobThe843CakeMan BurgezzE.T.F 475	Posted - 2013.06.12 02:10:00 - [2] - Quote Battlefront 3
Alina Heart DIOS EX. 259	Posted - 2013.06.12 02:13:00 - [3] - Quote IWS Your thoughts please...
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 5078	Posted - 2013.06.12 02:16:00 - [4] - Quote Alina Heart wrote: IWS Your thoughts please... I have not sat down to do any reverse engineering yet. So give me a moment and Ill do some of my spreadsheet fu.
EternalRMG ZionTCD Unclaimed. 259	Posted - 2013.06.12 02:17:00 - [5] - Quote Dust 514
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 571	Posted - 2013.06.12 02:27:00 - [6] - Quote It looks to me like there are a lot of choices available from a mix and match sense depending on your SP investments. That I like. As for the numbers... I'm leery of worrying about what they are exactly as we all want more HP, less penalties, faster repairs and faster sprints. Based on historic results I'd suggest making sure to err on the side of not having to issue a nerf to stats at a later date. Nobody is going to like "losing something" after having spec'd into this stuff. Short of that, actual usage stats for these items will trump meta-gaming complaints.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 312	Posted - 2013.06.12 02:33:00 - [7] - Quote I think we can all agree... that any buff to armor plates will affect both shield tankers and armor tanker equally. Any changes to armor past the introduction of these new plates will need to be in the forms of racial bonuses to armor tankers. Gallente needs a racial bonus to decrease the speed penalty on plates. Somewhere around 10-15% per level. Amarr need an armor plate bonus, and then their base movement speed brought up to the same level as Gallente and Caldari. This gives Amarr the flexibility to be a slower moving, but high EHP tanks. Everyone is pushing for shield extenders to increase dropsuit profile, and I can't argue with that. If it increases hitbox though, anything more than 1-2% per extender, than shield tanking becomes pointless. Hitboxes are dramatically different in eve, and that will not translate well to dust. Finally, we need to normalize the speed penalty on armor plates. Have all standard plates be 5% and all reactive plates be 3%. Higher level modules should not have more of a penalty than low level modules. Same goes for shield extenders, have a 5-15% profile increase per shield extender, regardless of level. Caldari scouts will then need a racial bonus to decrease profile penalty on shield extenders by 10-15% as well.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 180	Posted - 2013.06.12 02:33:00 - [8] - Quote Numbers aside, I think this would be a step in the right direction. Check it out Iron Wolf. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=86590&find=unread This would be a HUGE bonus to armor tankers, because currently 12 of the 17 modules are on the low side. When the new armor modules are added it will make it 14 out of 19. That is not balance.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 439	Posted - 2013.06.12 02:35:00 - [9] - Quote I'll use the Ferroscale. I won't use the reactive with that movement penalty.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 5078	Posted - 2013.06.12 02:36:00 - [10] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Numbers aside, I think this would be a step in the right direction. Check it out Iron Wolf. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=86590&find=unread Well I know there is in theory something very wrong between armor and shields and its a bit lopsided favoring shields but right now the tools required to correct this has not made it into the game yet.

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4306	Posted - 2013.06.12 02:37:00 - [11] - Quote Reactive plates are basically shield extenders (low HP, self repairing), but with less HP. Needs to have as much HP as their shield extender counterpart, or else you're just better off using shield extenders. Ferroscale plates need to have more HP than their shield extender counterparts, they may not have movement penalty (neither do shields), but they still can't repair themselves unlike shields, so they should have more HP to make up for that.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 180	Posted - 2013.06.12 02:41:00 - [12] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Numbers aside, I think this would be a step in the right direction. Check it out Iron Wolf. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=86590&find=unread Well I know there is in theory something very wrong between armor and shields and its a bit lopsided favoring shields but right now the tools required to correct this has not made it into the game yet. Any hints to what tools you are referring to? Also what did you think about the adding the Medium Powered Slots, and reassigning some of the modules?
Val'herik Dorn SyNergy Gaming EoN. 613	Posted - 2013.06.12 02:45:00 - [13] - Quote Armor should as long as they have a penalty never be worse than an unpenaltied shields. So while the self repair plates are a step in the right direction need to be better. The ferroscale should be at least equal to their shield counter parts since they would give the same bonus letting us choose between armor or shields. Just my .02isk.
Centurion mkII SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 96	Posted - 2013.06.12 02:48:00 - [14] - Quote I have a note for ccp. Complex plates weren't under used because of there price. Its because there only useful in like two situations. Its a bad item. I see the new armor items being primarily used for scouts or shield tanks who want more defense. I don't see armor tanking drop suits really using them. I think the reactive plates are weak. Too little benefit in both repair rate and armor. Too high cost in fitting.
Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 200	Posted - 2013.06.12 02:50:00 - [15] - Quote The new plates are meh, and verging on useless. But that has more to do with the inherent issues in shields vs. armor. The Ferroscale would be nice, but 60 hp at the complex level is bad, should be 80-85. Having lower HP than Shield Extenders while still suffering from 2 of the 3 drawbacks of armor is pretty inexcusable. As for Complex Reactive Plates, here: 2x Complex Reactive Plates CPU: 72 PG: 32 HP: 90 Rep: 4hp/s Movement penalty: 8% 1 Enhanced Armor Plate and 1 Complex Armor Repairer CPU: 65 PG: 17 HP: 87 Rep: 5hp/s Movement penalty: 5% Pretty laughable. Increase them to 60-70 HP, IMO.
Novawolf McDustingham The514th The Official Mintchip Fanclub 239	Posted - 2013.06.12 02:51:00 - [16] - Quote Again, one hundred times ovr - Armor should be first and foremost a resistance type of tanking - not a raw HP type of tanking. If you're just going to copy paste what makes shield tanking shield tanking over to armor, why even bother? It's unimaginative. Armor tanking should be constant low reps, damage resistance, moderate HP. Shield tanking is delayed high reps, high HP, no resistance. It makes them different and different players will find different situations in which they are useful.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 5078	Posted - 2013.06.12 02:51:00 - [17] - Quote Throwing together a Spreadsheet you can view it here. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqHgiF-KXQZXdGdrMFA0NW1uOU9ueUQ3YmtLRFVqcHc#gid=0
Novawolf McDustingham The514th The Official Mintchip Fanclub 239	Posted - 2013.06.12 02:55:00 - [18] - Quote GAH, no offense to your hard work, but I don't even want to see a spread sheet... It's all SSDD, only it's called armor and not called shield - and it's half arsed. Make armor tanking unique and dump this stupid speed drop.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 137	Posted - 2013.06.12 02:55:00 - [19] - Quote Plates still woefully unbalanced, Yay higher CPU/ PG costs for crapper than basic plates! Hurrah I know just where to put those..... Up the next Caldari Logi's *******! These things will be much better CQC weapons than nova knives, I'll just be throwing these at unsuspecting snipers and tank drives.
Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 200	Posted - 2013.06.12 03:03:00 - [20] - Quote Novawolf McDustingham The514th wrote: Again, one hundred times ovr - Armor should be first and foremost a resistance type of tanking - not a raw HP type of tanking. If you're just going to copy paste what makes shield tanking shield tanking over to armor, why even bother? It's unimaginative. Armor tanking should be constant low reps, damage resistance, moderate HP. Shield tanking is delayed high reps, high HP, no resistance. It makes them different and different players will find different situations in which they are useful. That maybe so, but right now they're basically lower buffer, lower rep, and lower resists. It appears they were originally intended to be high buffer/low rep, but CCP completely screwed the pooch on that. While I think your idea would be interesting if implemented correctly, everyone here knows the likelihood of that happening in any reasonable timeframe.

matsumoto yuichi san SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 7	Posted - 2013.06.12 03:38:00 - [21] - Quote so umm 2 points of PG is like 10 points of CPU for most proto suits and that + those numbers makes those plates just kinda meh for those stats at least i mean those are nice, but i am already PG strapped because the scrambler is more PG than anything else, and all the new plates need more pg than the old ones, and give for the reactive almost useless hp, and repair that is eh i'd have to try to be sure, but thats how it looks esp for like the amarr suits you'd still be slowest and with ferroscale fitting issues on PG to end with.... less ehp unless only extenders + plates and thats dull but this is all at first glance
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1921	Posted - 2013.06.12 03:46:00 - [22] - Quote Pre-nerfed and worthless.
matsumoto yuichi san SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 7	Posted - 2013.06.12 04:00:00 - [23] - Quote Note CPUGRIDHPHP/sMove Basic Ferroscale Plate 1222500 Enhanced FP 2374000 Complex FP 34136500% Basic Reactive Plate 103442-1% Enhanced RP 248653-2% Complex RP 3614874-4% Basic Armor Plate 101650-3% Enhanced AP 206870-5% Complex AP 30121250-7% Basic Shield Extender 1832200 Enhanced SE 3663300 Complex SE 54116600 Basic Armor Repairer 201040 Enhanced AR 355060 Complex AR 4511080 that would probably work out, rather than what the crystal ball stats are but that's just imho
Colonel Killar DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 2	Posted - 2013.06.12 04:04:00 - [24] - Quote Hmm I think Ferroscale plates need a slight boost to how much extra HP they give Basic Ferro 35 HP Enhanced Ferro 50 HP Complex Ferro 70 HP making complex ferro barely better than basic plates Plain plates need changed to have: Militia plates 4% Movement Reduction bulky and basic gear needs penalties 40 hp Basic armor plates: lightest plates but weakest 55hp 3% Movement Reduction Enhanced armor plates: medium plates with medium armor 80hp 4% Movement Reduction Complex plates: Heaviest plates both in mass and armor 110hp 6% Movement Reduction Reppers and Reactive armor are both good enough for now Shields need not much, the only two diadvantades that could be added to shields are increasing scan profile and making the shield hit-box larger The first is more preferable giving armor users an advantage with stealth and being fairly minor in direct 1v1 combat The second should only be implemented when in combat advantages arise (slow movement speed with armor remaining)
Colonel Killar DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 2	Posted - 2013.06.12 04:07:00 - [25] - Quote matsumoto yuichi san wrote: Note CPUGRIDHPHP/sMove Basic Ferroscale Plate 1222500 Enhanced FP 2374000 Complex FP 34136500% Basic Reactive Plate 103442-1% Enhanced RP 248653-2% Complex RP 3614874-4% Basic Armor Plate 101650-3% Enhanced AP 206870-5% Complex AP 30121250-7% Basic Shield Extender 1832200 Enhanced SE 3663300 Complex SE 54116600 Basic Armor Repairer 201040 Enhanced AR 355060 Complex AR 4511080 that would probably work out, rather than what the crystal ball stats are but that's just imho well the armor movement speed is my only minor complaint and the lack of a major disadvantage in sheilds, they even can get the excess PG and CPU they need from extenders in low slots which armor can't obtain.
Colonel Killar DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 2	Posted - 2013.06.12 04:09:00 - [26] - Quote Cass Barr wrote: While I think your idea would be interesting if implemented correctly, everyone here knows the likelihood of that happening in any reasonable timeframe. +1 to you for making me feel less unhappy about the state of armor tanking in dust.
Colonel Killar DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 2	Posted - 2013.06.12 04:11:00 - [27] - Quote Novawolf McDustingham The514th wrote: Again, one hundred times ovr - Armor should be first and foremost a resistance type of tanking - not a raw HP type of tanking. If you're just going to copy paste what makes shield tanking shield tanking over to armor, why even bother? It's unimaginative. Armor tanking should be constant low reps, damage resistance, moderate HP. Shield tanking is delayed high reps, high HP, no resistance. It makes them different and different players will find different situations in which they are useful. I 100% agree I'll now hold on to this post (if you consent) and present It as an idea in shield vs armor threads.
Avallo Kantor DUST University Ivy League 38	Posted - 2013.06.12 04:13:00 - [28] - Quote I think a Ferroscale plate should be more on the level of equipping a Reper and Plate of one level lower than what level the ferroscale is. For example basic would be the quality of a (non-existant) sub-basic plate + repper Advanced would be the quality of a basic plate + basic repper. Note that this quality includes PG + CPU costs and the move speed penalty in the combination as well. To that notion the repair values would be: 1% - Basic 2% - Advanced 3%- Complex
Colonel Killar DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 2	Posted - 2013.06.12 04:15:00 - [29] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: I think a Ferroscale plate should be more on the level of equipping a Reper and Plate of one level lower than what level the ferroscale is. For example basic would be the quality of a (non-existant) sub-basic plate + repper Advanced would be the quality of a basic plate + basic repper. Note that this quality includes PG + CPU costs and the move speed penalty in the combination as well. To that notion the repair values would be: 1% - Basic 2% - Advanced 3%- Complex use militia plate values for basic reactives
matsumoto yuichi san SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 7	Posted - 2013.06.12 04:16:00 - [30] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: I think a Ferroscale plate should be more on the level of equipping a Reper and Plate of one level lower than what level the ferroscale is. For example basic would be the quality of a (non-existant) sub-basic plate + repper Advanced would be the quality of a basic plate + basic repper. Note that this quality includes PG + CPU costs and the move speed penalty in the combination as well. To that notion the repair values would be: 1% - Basic 2% - Advanced 3%- Complex i need to clarify the rep isn't % its raw value 1 armor /s or 2 armor /s so on



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