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New Plate Stats, some comparisons, need debating and deliberation.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 200	Posted - 2013.06.12 02:50:00 - [1] - Quote The new plates are meh, and verging on useless. But that has more to do with the inherent issues in shields vs. armor. The Ferroscale would be nice, but 60 hp at the complex level is bad, should be 80-85. Having lower HP than Shield Extenders while still suffering from 2 of the 3 drawbacks of armor is pretty inexcusable. As for Complex Reactive Plates, here: 2x Complex Reactive Plates CPU: 72 PG: 32 HP: 90 Rep: 4hp/s Movement penalty: 8% 1 Enhanced Armor Plate and 1 Complex Armor Repairer CPU: 65 PG: 17 HP: 87 Rep: 5hp/s Movement penalty: 5% Pretty laughable. Increase them to 60-70 HP, IMO.
Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 200	Posted - 2013.06.12 03:03:00 - [2] - Quote Novawolf McDustingham The514th wrote: Again, one hundred times ovr - Armor should be first and foremost a resistance type of tanking - not a raw HP type of tanking. If you're just going to copy paste what makes shield tanking shield tanking over to armor, why even bother? It's unimaginative. Armor tanking should be constant low reps, damage resistance, moderate HP. Shield tanking is delayed high reps, high HP, no resistance. It makes them different and different players will find different situations in which they are useful. That maybe so, but right now they're basically lower buffer, lower rep, and lower resists. It appears they were originally intended to be high buffer/low rep, but CCP completely screwed the pooch on that. While I think your idea would be interesting if implemented correctly, everyone here knows the likelihood of that happening in any reasonable timeframe.
Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 203	Posted - 2013.06.12 08:16:00 - [3] - Quote Scan profile would have been, then they nerfed everyone's scan range to a measly 10 meters.
Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 206	Posted - 2013.06.12 14:35:00 - [4] - Quote Novawolf McDustingham The514th wrote: My Idea is as follows - First of all, no movement penalties on any armor anything, Dig? Here's some numbers, they're probably a little on th high side so just use it as reference. Next, armor plating - High slot. Basic - 5% damage reduction to armor Advanced - 10% damage reduction to armor. Prototype - 15% damage reduction to armor. Stacking penalties apply Armor Re-enforcement - Low slot 20hp - 40hp - 60hp Armor repair - lowslot 2hp/sec - 4hp/sec - 6hp/sec - or whatever it is now... I swear I don;t really care. Now armor tanking is unique and not copy and paste half assed shield tanking that has to be carried. Also putting the plating resistance module in the Highslot keeps shield tankers from fully dual tanking without sacrificing a slot that could be used for an extender and those suits built for armor tanking with limited high slots from stacking too many. Kneel, before McDustingham.... Kneel Good in theory, but CCP would need to adjust damage modifiers to make it work. Explosives would still kill you immediately, even with 30% damage reduction and 4 plates. Indeed, MD's and FP's would kill you faster since you sacrificed you Shield Extenders. And Flaylocks already have the fastest TTK on armor suits except for OHKOs. You'd have to clear 50% reduction to make this worthwhile, otherwise.
Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 208	Posted - 2013.06.12 18:02:00 - [5] - Quote Sorry, but anyone who thinks the Reactive plates are good with their current numbers fails at math.
Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 208	Posted - 2013.06.12 18:19:00 - [6] - Quote At the numbers we have the HP is almost useless, the repair rate is middling, and the movement penalty is too high. An Enhanced Plate and Complex Repper is better than 2 Reactives in every single category. Except HP. It has 3 fewer.
Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 208	Posted - 2013.06.12 18:25:00 - [7] - Quote Well I didn't see that, but I sure hope they mean it.
Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 208	Posted - 2013.06.12 18:36:00 - [8] - Quote Personally I think they should make Complex Reactives be 90 hp, 3 hp/s, 5% movement, then make them require level 5 in both armor plating AND armor repair systems. I've no recommendations for fitting reqs, just that they be useable. The issue they will have with putting them in High slots is that running Shield Extenders would still be preferable to using Reactives. No shields makes you excessively vulnerable to grenades and other explosive weaponry.
Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 208	Posted - 2013.06.12 19:44:00 - [9] - Quote I wasn't trying to solve the shield vs. armor tanking issues, just trying to make Reactives useful. There are numerous recommendations regarding shields vs armor already. IMO a good way to help out is to make Reactives unequivocally better yet have high PG fitting reqs, then give Gallente and Amar higher base PG, or a fitting reduction for armor plates. Or not. There are numerous ways CCP can address shield vs. armor imbalances. But whatever they do, Reactives still need to be useful.
Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 208	Posted - 2013.06.12 20:32:00 - [10] - Quote I have no problem with Reactive plates being superior, just like reactive armor on modern battle tanks is superior to simple steel plating. Sure the technologies are completely different, but it would make sense that Eve nations would have developed something more effective than static plating. And Reactive plates represent the best opportunity to solve one of the problems with armor tanking, that you have to sacrifice your buffer to gain any built-in regeneration. This fact, along with the huge speed penalties on Complex plates, are what prevents armor suits from fulfilling their design as large buffer tanks with low regen. The numbers I quoted would mean that a Reactive has less HP than a Plate and lower regen than a repper but the combination frees up a slot, and allows higher EHP than using separate modules, while maintaining a useful amount of regen(5 ranks of armor repair systems should bump the complex from 3 to almost 4 hp/s). This comes at the cost of twice as much SP investment (or hell make an entirely new skill for all I care), higher ISK expenses, and the touchier subject of how to balance the fitting reqs. That's the direction I think Reactives should move.

Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 219	Posted - 2013.06.13 01:16:00 - [11] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Armor- Slower movement/repair, More Buffer Shield-Less Buffer, Faster Movement, Faster/Natural Regen If people repeat it often enough, it must make it true.
Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 221	Posted - 2013.06.13 03:45:00 - [12] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Cass Barr wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Armor- Slower movement/repair, More Buffer Shield-Less Buffer, Faster Movement, Faster/Natural Regen If people repeat it often enough, it must make it true. Just saying It s it is. you want a Buffer? Go Armor. You Want a Regenerative Tank? Go Shield. Just Saying No, you're saying how it's supposed to work, not how it does work. Talos Alomar's suggestions would work, but I'd worry that CCP would just move reppers to high slots and ignore the damage reduction part, rendering them unusable. So long as explosives do so much damage to armor, using the high slots for anything but Complex Shield Extenders simply isn't feasible.
Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 344	Posted - 2013.06.22 00:30:00 - [13] - Quote CCP will need to abandon the "one size fits all approach" to dropsuit's CPU/PG output and instead adopt a system similar to how vehicles work, I think. Otherwise the racial bonuses would have to be very good to equalize armor tanking.

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