True, they go hand in hand. But the thread clearly says HMG. Bringing up advantages and disadvantages of the suit are an entirely different topic, considering that the heavy suit does not have the HMG as a requisite.

Either you have never played using an HMG effectively, or you don't quite understand what "suppression" means. I can walk near any objective then start unloading, and watch as they either try to shoot me and die...or hide behind cover until a chance presents itself where they think they can retaliate against me. Sometimes, rarely, they flat out run.

Seems you have a problem with rock-paper-scissors. The "terrible" turning speed has given scouts a chance to actually kill a heavy using an HMG. And they still have to work for it (at least with me). I'm perfectly fine with dominating in CQC as rock, while being aware that paper could start shooting me in the back.

Weapons excelling in one area, doesn't mean that's the only way you can effectively use the weapon. I use the HMG for many of my skirmish situations. I jump in LAV's, head to sparsely protected null cannons, kill the 1-3 raspberries there and hack it. I act as the wall in my squad, soaking up the bullets to protect my squad with me firing into the enemy crowd ,as we push from cover cover towards the objective as a logistics keeps me alive. Sometimes i even feel the need to rambo, which will usually yield positive results.

You have a very skewed perception of the HMG.

With crap for range and crap for accuracy it's supposed to be a mid to mainly close range weapon right?

In a game where any given map is at least 80-90% open field where any other weapon with better range and accuracy can simply shred you before they're even in your range?

Add in the fact that thanks to pitiful per shot damage you're expected to keep a lock on enemies who thanks to horrible movement mechanics can jerk back and forth bouncing off the walls ensuring that you can't even drop their shields as they drop grenades on you?

I always see people saying "Well you have to play defensively!" How exactly? Hide behind that one stack of crates over by the objective? Stick with other players where the slow moving guy that can't fire back yet totally isn't the easy target?

As I've played I haven't seen that many HMG users, I'd always figured it was people shying away from the extra investments needed to unlock heavy armors and weapons, but it's more because anyone that gets tricked into believing there's any actual balance in this game sadly goes back to using an assault rifle build and eats the lost SP isn't it?

Heavies shouldn't need logistics to function properly, but that's effectively the situation we're in.

Heavies shouldn't need to load their high slots with damage mods in order to output acceptable damage levels, but that's the situation we're in.

HMGs shouldn't do 'comparable' damage to an AR, because as one of the posters above said - you sacrifice lots in order to field the gun. But that's the situation we're in.




Balance.

Heavies shouldn't need logistics to function properly, but that's effectively the situation we're in.

Heavies shouldn't need to load their high slots with damage mods in order to output acceptable damage levels, but that's the situation we're in.

HMGs shouldn't do 'comparable' damage to an AR, because as one of the posters above said - you sacrifice lots in order to field the gun. But that's the situation we're in.

Let's go with the range argument for now then.

Why is the HMG a flame thrower, and not an HMG?

CCP designed it to be "different" than the usual HMG in that it is a CQC weapon, yet they have structured it in a way that does not compliment this function at all. Heavies are too slow to dictate range, yet their success depends on it. Too slow to turn, yet again, their success in CQC depends on it. Reloading is also too slow to be effective in a lone-wolf point defense situation, yet this is what they are supposedly designed for.

The entire concept is full of contradictions. It doesn't work. At least, not when your opponent is worth a damn.


Yet, if the HMG was designed properly as a weapon with great range, it would work far better. Slow turning does not impose much restriction against ranged targets. It actually helps more with precision aiming, which is what is necessary from range. Furthermore, the Heavy could still fulfill the role of "point defense" but instead do so by keeping enemies at bay from range. Their slower reload also makes much more sense when there is a greater buffer distance between themselves and the enemy to start with.

Let's go with the range argument for now then.

Why is the HMG a flame thrower, and not an HMG?

CCP designed it to be "different" than the usual HMG in that it is a CQC weapon, yet they have structured it in a way that does not compliment this function at all. Heavies are too slow to dictate range, yet their success depends on it. Too slow to turn, yet again, their success in CQC depends on it. Reloading is also too slow to be effective in a lone-wolf point defense situation, yet this is what they are supposedly designed for.

The entire concept is full of contradictions. It doesn't work. At least, not when your opponent is worth a damn.


Yet, if the HMG was designed properly as a weapon with great range, it would work far better. Slow turning does not impose much restriction against ranged targets. It actually helps more with precision aiming, which is what is necessary from range. Furthermore, the Heavy could still fulfill the role of "point defense" but instead do so by keeping enemies at bay from range. Their slower reload also makes much more sense when there is a greater buffer distance between themselves and the enemy to start with.

I'm beating a dead horse, but here we are again.

HMGs do not do "comparable" damage to an AR. They do a hell of a lot more damage than an AR.

Specifically, 29% more DPS than AR, which is a very big difference in this game. The only possible complaint about HMG right now is range. Complaints about damage are simply ignorant.

You are so wrong it's comical.

You are so wrong it's comical.

STD HMG -600dps +10% = 660dps + 15% procficiency = 760.35 +18% (2 complex damage mods) = 897.2 dps - 35% dispersion = 583.2dps at optimal range.
past optimal range damage fall off is almost 20 damage per meter past optimal, (i.e. 10 m eters past optimal is a 200damage reduction) and then there is the hard cap.

militia AR - 425dps +10% = 467.5dps + 15% proficiency = 537.625 + 18% (2 complex damage mods) = 634.4 dps - 3% dispersion = 615.4dps at optimal range
past optimal damage reduction is near 6-7 i may be wrong though.

remember this was a comparison of the militia AR to a STD HMG. the proto HMG is only 1.8 damage per shot higher, where as proto ARs increase by 2 or 3 more damage per shot. the disperity is evident.

Here's the problem with your math:

DPS is a statistic anyone can verify. Your figures for dispersion are something you made up.

I can just as easily state that dispersion for HMG is 15-20%, and then the HMG does 717.76 DPS at optimal, still beating the AR.

I can also say (as subjectively as your guess at dispersion numbers) that there are no dispersion effects whatsoever if your target fills your reticule, and the HMG at optimal spanks the crap out of AR as long as you're good enough to keep your target in your sights.

As for tracking: tweak your settings. If I can keep my sights on a bunny-hopping proto Assault, you can too.



I'm sorry, but you're looking at this incorrectly, too. Proto HMG does 10% more damage than basic HMG. Proto Assault does 10% more damage than base Assault. The DPS increase is the same. Check your numbers.

I won't comment on range, because here we actually agree. It's the only legitimate complaint for HMG at the moment, and it'll be interesting to see what changes in 1.2.

This... tried to say this already but i go from experiance not numbers lol.

35% dispertion might be right... but that isnt a direct reduction in dps! If i put the barrels of my gun and plant them on someones face dispertion means squat... if i then move back a meter im still hitting for full... 10m sure, i might get the odd stray bullet... 20m, i might start losing some dps... 30m, missing more... 40m now theres some notable loss...

but never have i lost 35% of my dps... not until theyre out past my optimal and my recitle is twice the size of the target anyway lol and of course that reduces after firing a bit... more if i aim down the "sights"

http://i.imgur.com/Dh2wv7o.jpg refer to this to see that range is an issue 2km plus for HEAVY MACHINE GUNS ours goes 30m~ and does shite damage and loses a lot of dps due to that dispersion.

(.50 cal, 20mm, and 30mm, are all HMGs for those who do not know, and as the in game HMG looks acts it like the 20mm)

I will never give up on the HMG

With crap for range and crap for accuracy it's supposed to be a mid to mainly close range weapon right?

In a game where any given map is at least 80-90% open field where any other weapon with better range and accuracy can simply shred you before they're even in your range?

Add in the fact that thanks to pitiful per shot damage you're expected to keep a lock on enemies who thanks to horrible movement mechanics can jerk back and forth bouncing off the walls ensuring that you can't even drop their shields as they drop grenades on you?

I always see people saying "Well you have to play defensively!" How exactly? Hide behind that one stack of crates over by the objective? Stick with other players where the slow moving guy that can't fire back yet totally isn't the easy target?

As I've played I haven't seen that many HMG users, I'd always figured it was people shying away from the extra investments needed to unlock heavy armors and weapons, but it's more because anyone that gets tricked into believing there's any actual balance in this game sadly goes back to using an assault rifle build and eats the lost SP isn't it?

http://i.imgur.com/Dh2wv7o.jpg refer to this to see that range is an issue 2km plus for HEAVY MACHINE GUNS ours goes 30m~ and does shite damage and loses a lot of dps due to that dispersion.

(.50 cal, 20mm, and 30mm, are all HMGs for those who do not know, and as the in game HMG looks acts it like the 20mm)

Likewise, sir.

Lol its not thatbad and 1.2 ccp will increase the range of every gun . Further more ive only beena heavy it wastoo good in chromosome and other then the RANGE its fine i play multiple games with out dying everyday. Its not godmod if you sucka heavy is not the answer.

and ive been a heavy since day one so im speaking for heavies that are having no trouble atm my kpd is 4.11 or higher that's what It was last I checked so if your good at this game your good at any suit and people want heavies to be so good its not god mod like I said I can go a whole day with a good squad getting 10 plus kills each game with out dying

...... I can go a whole day with a good squad getting 10 plus kills each game with out dying