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KOBLAKA1
Opus Arcana
87
   |
Posted - 2013.06.26 15:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
ChromeBreaker wrote:Disturbingly Bored wrote:D legendary hero wrote:
STD HMG -600dps +10% = 660dps + 15% procficiency = 760.35 +18% (2 complex damage mods) = 897.2 dps - 35% dispersion = 583.2dps at optimal range.
past optimal range damage fall off is almost 20 damage per meter past optimal, (i.e. 10 m eters past optimal is a 200damage reduction) and then there is the hard cap.
militia AR - 425dps +10% = 467.5dps + 15% proficiency = 537.625 + 18% (2 complex damage mods) = 634.4 dps - 3% dispersion = 615.4dps at optimal range
past optimal damage reduction is near 6-7 i may be wrong though.
Here's the problem with your math: DPS is a statistic anyone can verify. Your figures for dispersion are something you made up. I can just as easily state that dispersion for HMG is 15-20%, and then the HMG does 717.76 DPS at optimal, still beating the AR. I can also say (as subjectively as your guess at dispersion numbers) that there are no dispersion effects whatsoever if your target fills your reticule, and the HMG at optimal spanks the crap out of AR as long as you're good enough to keep your target in your sights. As for tracking: tweak your settings. If I can keep my sights on a bunny-hopping proto Assault, you can too. Quote:remember this was a comparison of the militia AR to a STD HMG. the proto HMG is only 1.8 damage per shot higher, where as proto ARs increase by 2 or 3 more damage per shot. the disperity is evident. I'm sorry, but you're looking at this incorrectly, too. Proto HMG does 10% more damage than basic HMG. Proto Assault does 10% more damage than base Assault. The DPS increase is the same. Check your numbers. I won't comment on range, because here we actually agree. It's the only legitimate complaint for HMG at the moment, and it'll be interesting to see what changes in 1.2. This... tried to say this already but i go from experiance not numbers lol.
35% dispertion might be right... but that isnt a direct reduction in dps! If i put the barrels of my gun and plant them on someones face dispertion means squat... if i then move back a meter im still hitting for full... 10m sure, i might get the odd stray bullet... 20m, i might start losing some dps... 30m, missing more... 40m now theres some notable loss...
but never have i lost 35% of my dps... not until theyre out past my optimal and my recitle is twice the size of the target anyway lol and of course that reduces after firing a bit... more if i aim down the "sights"
http://i.imgur.com/Dh2wv7o.jpg refer to this to see that range is an issue 2km plus for HEAVY MACHINE GUNS ours goes 30~ and does shite damage and loses a lot of dps due to that dispersion.
(.50 cal, 20mm, and 30mm, are all HMGs for those who do not know, and as the in game HMG looks acts it like the 20mm) |
KOBLAKA1
Opus Arcana
88
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 19:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Polish Hammer wrote:SoTa ReGnUM PoP wrote:Laheon wrote:Heavies aren't meant to be a heavy version of the assault.
Heavies are meant to defend a position - they exceed as a defensive role. Set up round a corner and anything coming around that corner is dead. On Manus Peak, I used a heavy to great effect defending point C, despite coming under heavy assault, with bombardment from a railgun installation, too. Most assaults were too cautious to come close, and those that did I ripped to shreds in seconds. Heavies were meant to stand toe and toe with tanks if we use your logic. Where the hell is that? Please - stop telling a class how to play. +1
im pretty sure in our job/suit description its says we are supposed to stand toe-to-toe with enemy vehicles and live... |
KOBLAKA1
Opus Arcana
88
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 19:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote: Notice it fires the 5.56mm round (smaller bullet = less damage) oh yea our AR fires plasma rounds  Notice the sustained RPM (rate it is commonly used to be the most effective in combat) 15 RPM ok cry some? Cyclic RPM (weapons fastest mechanical ability) (spray n pray shooting) 950 RPM Effective range 550m point Target (accurate shooting) 800m area target (innacurate used for area denial) So is balance off between these types of weapons in DUST 514?...well you tell me!
I hope you are defending my point because yes the balance is off. Range and Damage should be higher than an AR by your methodology. (Also minigun is classified as a small arms weapon ie LMG not HMG looking up the FM now) |
KOBLAKA1
Opus Arcana
89
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 20:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
THEDRiZZLE Aqua teen wrote:lol im just amusing my self at this point
I may just like to argue... |
KOBLAKA1
Opus Arcana
90
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 21:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:KOBLAKA1 wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote: Notice it fires the 5.56mm round (smaller bullet = less damage) oh yea our AR fires plasma rounds Notice the sustained RPM (rate it is commonly used to be the most effective in combat) 15 RPM ok cry some? Cyclic RPM (weapons fastest mechanical ability) (spray n pray shooting) 950 RPM Effective range 550m point Target (accurate shooting) 800m area target (innacurate used for area denial) So is balance off between these types of weapons in DUST 514?...well you tell me! I hope you are defending my point because yes the balance is off. Range and Damage should be higher than an AR by your methodology. (Also minigun is classified as a small arms weapon ie LMG not HMG looking up the FM now) Edit: Here ya go small arms defined as: Any gun below a 20-millimeter bore size is generally classified as a small arm. An alternative term gaining increasing currency is "light arms," to include individual and light support weapons. 2nd edit: I think HMG damage is fine just needs range So our HMG should really be a light weapon if it mimics a minigun? No I'm not saying that at all. The only reason it is classified as a light infantry weapon irl is because of the round it fires. The only reason it uses this round is for logistics purposes. Which means there are less types of ammo to haul around. Typically you find this weapon used in mounted applications as an area denial/crowd control weapon. You find in mounted in bunkers, outposts, humvees and Helos otherwise it typically takes 2 to 3 troops on foot to transport the gun itself, the ammunition, and the external powersource required to operate it. This makes it impractical for smaller scale military operations limited to only light infantry. Typically this weapon is brought into battlegrounds by vehicle and set up only after infantry has cleared the area. The reason it classifies as a heavy weapon in DUST 514 is because it becomes single man portable when combined with the Heavy Class Dropsuits. TL;DR the size of the weapon itself, not the size of fire ammo is what makes it a "heavy weapon"
I'll buy that but our range and damage should still be greater than an AR then |
KOBLAKA1
Opus Arcana
90
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 21:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:KOBLAKA1 wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:KOBLAKA1 wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote: Notice it fires the 5.56mm round (smaller bullet = less damage) oh yea our AR fires plasma rounds Notice the sustained RPM (rate it is commonly used to be the most effective in combat) 15 RPM ok cry some? Cyclic RPM (weapons fastest mechanical ability) (spray n pray shooting) 950 RPM Effective range 550m point Target (accurate shooting) 800m area target (innacurate used for area denial) So is balance off between these types of weapons in DUST 514?...well you tell me! I hope you are defending my point because yes the balance is off. Range and Damage should be higher than an AR by your methodology. (Also minigun is classified as a small arms weapon ie LMG not HMG looking up the FM now) Edit: Here ya go small arms defined as: Any gun below a 20-millimeter bore size is generally classified as a small arm. An alternative term gaining increasing currency is "light arms," to include individual and light support weapons. 2nd edit: I think HMG damage is fine just needs range So our HMG should really be a light weapon if it mimics a minigun? No I'm not saying that at all. The only reason it is classified as a light infantry weapon irl is because of the round it fires. The only reason it uses this round is for logistics purposes. Which means there are less types of ammo to haul around. Typically you find this weapon used in mounted applications as an area denial/crowd control weapon. You find in mounted in bunkers, outposts, humvees and Helos otherwise it typically takes 2 to 3 troops on foot to transport the gun itself, the ammunition, and the external powersource required to operate it. This makes it impractical for smaller scale military operations limited to only light infantry. Typically this weapon is brought into battlegrounds by vehicle and set up only after infantry has cleared the area. The reason it classifies as a heavy weapon in DUST 514 is because it becomes single man portable when combined with the Heavy Class Dropsuits. TL;DR the size of the weapon itself, not the size of fire ammo is what makes it a "heavy weapon" I'll buy that but our range and damage should still be greater than an AR then At the very least our HMG should be 20% more than that of the AR. Our damage should be between the AR and the SMG.
/signed |
KOBLAKA1
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
96
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 15:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
THEDRiZZLE Aqua teen wrote:Hmg is fine it need that hard stop dmg to increase and the turn speed is a lil to slow thats it dmg and everythibgis good
yeah in general range is the only complaint by a lot of the heavy community it seems too bad (as someone else pointed out to me) CCp doesnt respond to the heavy community and hasnt since the damage/range fiasco at release |
KOBLAKA1
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
119
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 15:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quote:Quote:
Your so wrong if you stand still spray and dont aim you will not hit anything you have yo burts fire andstraff being aheavy is harder then any other because you are so slow
You can you please rephrase this a manner that actually makes sense?
You're so wrong if you stand still spray and dont aim you will not hit anything. you have to burst fire and strafe. Being a heavy is harder then any other because you are so slow
Fixed that |
KOBLAKA1
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
127
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 20:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:XxWarlordxX97 wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:XxWarlordxX97 wrote:D legendary hero wrote:
it takes way to long to burn through shields, and since everyone shield tanks you end up losing or being crippled in 1v1s and since this is a supressive fire weapon, its kinda pitiful not being able to supress one person
Damage mods or Flux Why is that plural? They have 1 high  You want to use the bad heavy suit ...  Looking at the racial bonuses.... yes, yes I do
basic amarr heavy frame ftw, i have higher survivability with 2 complex shield mods and armor reps in low. |
KOBLAKA1
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
127
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 21:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
go spec hmg and then talk, AR outranges us |
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KOBLAKA1
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
134
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 22:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
So you are a master with it even though you havent specced it? Obviously its not easiest thing in the game to use or everyone would be using it. And what do kills have to do with my comment? pretty sure I never said anything about kills, I do just fine. You must have been on the business end one too many times and are butthurt about it.
Heavy Machine Guns are not CQC weapons. Thats what SMGs are for.
Heavy machine gun definition: The heavy machine gun or HMG is a larger class of machine gun generally recognized to refer to two separate stages of machine gun development. The term was originally used to refer to the generation of machine guns which came into widespread use in World War I. These fired standard rifle cartridges such as the 7.92 Mauser, .303 British or 7.62+ù54mmR, but featured heavy construction, elaborate mountings, and water-cooling mechanisms that enabled long-range sustained automatic fire with excellent accuracy.
SubMachinegun Definition: A submachine gun (SMG) is an automatic carbine, designed to fire pistol cartridges.[1] It combines the automatic fire of a machine gun with the cartridge of a pistol and have poor accuracy past 50m.
"hey this the future don't compare Dust to modern day"... Unless we aren't using english in DUST it applies. These are definitions not comparisons. This is what it is to be in these category of weapon. As it stands the HMG is just a SMG with a big clip...
Also you're not your (of course this could mean you don't understand english...in which case quit skipping summer school to play) |
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