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Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
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Posted - 2013.06.25 12:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:Heavies shouldn't need logistics to function properly, but that's effectively the situation we're in.
As a currently lone wolf Heavy, this is untrue. HMG has enough ammo to get through Ambush, and other maps have resupply crates. Beyond that: armor reppers.
Quote:Heavies shouldn't need to load their high slots with damage mods in order to output acceptable damage levels, but that's the situation we're in.
You can load your hi slots with shield mods if you like. It's arguably as or more effective.
Quote:HMGs shouldn't do 'comparable' damage to an AR, because as one of the posters above said - you sacrifice lots in order to field the gun. But that's the situation we're in.
HMGs do not do "comparable" damage to an AR. They do a hell of a lot more damage than an AR.
Specifically, 29% more DPS than AR, which is a very big difference in this game. The only possible complaint about HMG right now is range. Complaints about damage are simply ignorant. |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
311
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Posted - 2013.06.25 13:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Dis Cord wrote:I'm beating a dead horse, but here we are again.
If I could +1 this a thousand times, I would. |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
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Posted - 2013.06.26 01:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Heavy Breaks wrote:
You are so wrong it's comical.
Elaborate.
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Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
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Posted - 2013.06.26 14:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:
STD HMG -600dps +10% = 660dps + 15% procficiency = 760.35 +18% (2 complex damage mods) = 897.2 dps - 35% dispersion = 583.2dps at optimal range.
past optimal range damage fall off is almost 20 damage per meter past optimal, (i.e. 10 m eters past optimal is a 200damage reduction) and then there is the hard cap.
militia AR - 425dps +10% = 467.5dps + 15% proficiency = 537.625 + 18% (2 complex damage mods) = 634.4 dps - 3% dispersion = 615.4dps at optimal range
past optimal damage reduction is near 6-7 i may be wrong though.
Here's the problem with your math:
DPS is a statistic anyone can verify. Your figures for dispersion are something you made up.
I can just as easily state that dispersion for HMG is 15-20%, and then the HMG does 717.76 DPS at optimal, still beating the AR.
I can also say (as subjectively as your guess at dispersion numbers) that there are no dispersion effects whatsoever if your target fills your reticule, and the HMG at optimal spanks the crap out of AR as long as you're good enough to keep your target in your sights.
As for tracking: tweak your settings. If I can keep my sights on a bunny-hopping proto Assault, you can too.
Quote:remember this was a comparison of the militia AR to a STD HMG. the proto HMG is only 1.8 damage per shot higher, where as proto ARs increase by 2 or 3 more damage per shot. the disperity is evident.
I'm sorry, but you're looking at this incorrectly, too. Proto HMG does 10% more damage than basic HMG. Proto Assault does 10% more damage than base Assault. The DPS increase is the same. Check your numbers.
I won't comment on range, because here we actually agree. It's the only legitimate complaint for HMG at the moment, and it'll be interesting to see what changes in 1.2. |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
314
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Posted - 2013.06.26 17:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
XxWarlordxX97 wrote:
I will never give up on the HMG
Likewise, sir. |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
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Posted - 2013.06.26 21:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Another Heavy SOB wrote:
Trust me guys you're arguing with a brick wall here. Go back through the page's.
Yeah. My biggest goal is to not have poorly informed and potentially balance-damaging opinions fly without comment.
Bad ideas spread pretty quick if they aren't checked. |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
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Posted - 2013.06.28 03:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:way to long to burn through shields, and since everyone shield tanks you end up losing or being crippled in 1v1s and since this is a supressive fire weapon, its kinda pitiful not being able to supress one person
Flux grenades work really, really nice with HMG. Especially if you have 2-3 reds clustered together.
Just a friendly tip. |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
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Posted - 2013.06.28 04:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
XxWarlordxX97 wrote:
Damage mods or Flux
Damage mods AND Flux  |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
324
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Posted - 2013.06.30 21:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:
I'd pwn every heavy in this thread btw. ;)
I been steppin up my game. I look forward to testing that statement some time. (Not to say I haven't been SoTapwnd in the past...)
In any case, sorry D, but SoTa's eyes are clear on this issue. HMG is still beastial toe-to-toe if you have good situational awareness and flank. Damage really isn't the issue.
The problem is that it has no bite at mid-range, which means AR players with good situational awareness control the fight every single time. And if our "role" is to guard the point, this means they take their time plinking away at range until they have enough backup to stop you.
IMO: at 30-40m, the HMG should do 20-25% less DPS than the AR. Still enough to hurt, not enough to win an outright slugfest. Currently it does far less (I won't be asinine enough to make up a number, but any dolt can shrug the damage off and move on as normal). That would fix it in my book.
Then CCP just needs to get off their arse on racial suits and more Heavy weapons.  |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
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Posted - 2013.07.01 04:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote: the HMGs situation is suppression, defending objectives and/or a squad from being overrun by a larger enemy force, and/or restricting enemy movement via supressive fire.
So, look. Your heart is in the right place. But your solution:
Quote:HMG 25 per shot
ADV HMG 28 per shot
PROTO 31 per shot
Does not do anything for "suppression" whatsoever. All it does is make the HMG stupidly overpowered in CQC, which it is already good at.
You are overly focused on damage, and not on DPS. More than that, you're focused on raw damage, and not damage at range. HMG already murders at optimal. It already kills crowds at optimal. What it needs is to sting at 30-40m, instead of doing laughable damage at that range. Then you'll have the suppression we are all looking for.
In any case, tomorrow should be interesting. I have a feeling this thread is going to grow by another 5-10 pages over the next week, given 1.2's changes to range... |
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