FInally, people are making sense. Where was this 2 years ago.

Well I am quite sure if people didn't play rumor mill the issue would have never been pushed around for me in the first place.

Also I am not the only guy that suggested side arms only, I was the only guy that suggested 2x sidearms however with carbine support.

Unfortunately with only 2 bonuses one of which is locked in from tech 1 skills, the tech 2 skills are the only real place to be screwing around and tbh most of them are very needed (gal's fitting bonus) or just don't help out and are too restrictive (minnie's hacking bonus) to a play style instead of allowing for a wide variety of play-styles.

If going back to the original idea that spawned this whole mess you would see that the idea calls for 4 bonuses, 2 bonuses to be shared across the entire size of the frame (by race) while 2 more for the tech 2 that would assist in its function.

Tell me again how goign to sidearms only fixes the caldari logis SUPER TANK? (heres a hint, it doenst). That logi is OP due ot tanking ability, not its ability to carry a light weapon. Cause > Cure. Its not that hard. Really.

H: Shield extender 54 CPU / 11PG
H: Shield extender 54 CPU / 11PG
H: Shield extender 54 CPU / 11PG
H: Shield extender 54 CPU / 11PG
H: Shield extender 54 CPU / 11 PG

Total = 270 CPU/ 55 PG

L: Complex Shield Regulator 35 CPU/ 3 PG
L: Complex Kinetic mod 27 CPU/ 15 PG
L:Basic Armor Repairer 20 CPU / 1 PG
L: Basic CPU Upgrade = 16% more CPU

Total = 83 CPU / 19 CPU

LW: Balac: 90 CPU 13 PG
G: Core Locus grenade 48 CPU / 6 PG
Or Allotek Flux 52 CPU / 6 PG

Total: 138 or 142 CPU / 19 PG

E: Ishkone Gauged Nano Hive: 59 CPU / 11PG
E: Blank
E: Blank

Total: 59 CPU /11 PG

CPU Available: 507 / PG available: 101.4

Total CPU Used: 550 or 554 CPU / PG used: 104

But that doesn't fit right? Except 507 x 1.16 = 588.12

Still not enough PG right? Assault Rifle Fitting skill(whatever it's called 13 x .25 = 3.25
104 - 3.25 = 100.75

So all this just barely fit, but is it really that much better than what can be done with a Caldari Assault Suit?

Edit:
Without CL bonus:
Caldari Assault: 412.5 + 290.4 =702.9 EHP
Caldari Logistics:337.5 + 363 = 700.5 EHP

With CL Bonus: 337.5 + 445.5 = 783 EHP
783(L) - 702.9(A) = 80.1 HP difference.

My god, this is game breaking

Edit: Now if you used a complex CPU Upgrade, and replaced the Basic Armor repairer with a PG Upgrade, then you would be able to fill your other equipment slots, but I want all assault users to realize that this is far more expensive than your suit would ever get.

Tell me again how goign to sidearms only fixes the caldari logis SUPER TANK? (heres a hint, it doenst). That logi is OP due ot tanking ability, not its ability to carry a light weapon. Cause > Cure. Its not that hard. Really.

Wait wait back up a bit.

People complained on how squishy logis where in chomosome, and now that its fixed in uprising you possibly want to nerf it (back) ?

Wait wait back up a bit.

People complained on how squishy logis where in chomosome, and now that its fixed in uprising you possibly want to nerf it (back) ?

Wait wait back up a bit.

People complained on how squishy logis where in chomosome, and now that its fixed in uprising you possibly want to nerf it (back) ?

Thats what kept it balanced in chromosome, in my opinion.

Wait wait back up a bit.

People complained on how squishy logis where in chomosome, and now that its fixed in uprising you possibly want to nerf it (back) ?

Let's spell it out again for you: The entire logistics class, except for the Caldari Logistics is fine. The problem is the Caldari suit doesn't have a support related bonus compared to the others. Even the Amarr, which is supposed to be a pseudo Assault/Logi does it right because the Amarr assult still has advantages over it.

I'm vocal, and being black makes me a minority. Will you start listening to me?

Who in all honesty complained about the logis being squishy?(in last build)

I don't remember all that many threads on it.... Why did CCP listen to them?

and I keep saying the problem will become more apparent once the scrambler rifle makes it in.

Don't worry.

It'll be a cold day in hell before I see the rest of the CPM pushing for balance specific balance changes beyond drawing attention to things that are obviously broken. This is not something we are suited for and in every situation it's better to point CCP to threads on the subjects than to simply say "Sup CCP, make this stat X cause we are CPM"


That's not what the CPM is there for, and it's not what we're going to do. Balance is best left to people who actually understand the concept of fair and objective use... Which is not the case for most of the CPM.

If a nerf comes it's because the community was spamming about it and that's all we had to link to CCP. Just sayin'

If the Scrambler Rifle vs CaLogi war begins next week and the rifle doesn't wind up getting nerfed, Dust 514 will finally be in good shape. Right now all we have are a bunch of QQing tryhards used to being dominant in AAA FPS that don't understand things like effective counters, meta gaming and counter play. Instead they want what their using to be the best in the game and everything else around it to be nerfed to novelty. This is the absolute reason why Dust 514 has been screwed up for the past 2 years. Those are the people who are never happy and no matter how much you cater to them, they never will be happy. CCP needs to focus on building a middleground between an FPS and EVE, which for the exception of chrome, they've done excellently and may finally have that balance in uprising once weapons get teaked to compete with the AR.

CCP, stop catering to the "hardcore" FPSers. They're all going to leave when the next CoD comes out anyway.

If the Scrambler Rifle vs CaLogi war begins next week and the rifle doesn't wind up getting nerfed, Dust 514 will finally be in good shape. Right now all we have are a bunch of QQing tryhards used to being dominant in AAA FPS that don't understand things like effective counters, meta gaming and counter play. Instead they want what their using to be the best in the game and everything else around it to be nerfed to novelty. This is the absolute reason why Dust 514 has been screwed up for the past 2 years. Those are the people who are never happy and no matter how much you cater to them, they never will be happy. CCP needs to focus on building a middleground between an FPS and EVE, which for the exception of chrome, they've done excellently and may finally have that balance in uprising once weapons get teaked to compete with the AR.

CCP, stop catering to the "hardcore" FPSers. They're all going to leave when the next CoD comes out anyway.

no ccp doesnt even need to balance between FPS and EVE, FPSs have a long track record of varied and balanced weapons sets in fact prior to video games becoming popular enough for FPSs to sell out to casual gamers they were considered hard core and frankly rivaled RTS for counter play. CCP needs to look to quake and unreal, those games and many others understood good weapons ballance.

The fact that a gun has to be made specifically to kill 1 class is ridiculous, I also highly doubt that they are making it for the purpose of killing Caldari logistics. There is nothing wrong with the Logistics, or the Assault suits, the only problem is the Caldari Logistics and their racial bonus. A quick fix without nerfing their bonus is to remove or lower the movement penalty from armor plates.

It's not made for one class it's made to counter shield tankers since they still have a slight advantage against armor. There are already plenty of EM weapons in the game that melt shields: Scrambler Pistol, Laser, Sniper Rifles, Forge Guns, and Flux grenades. The scrambler rifle is just going to even the playing field out more because there isn't a true mid range weapon to counter shields yet. It's all about rock, paper, scissors but with shields, EM, armor, Kinetics, and Hybrids.... you get the point I hope.

This makes sense I get it, I just wish it counted as a hybrid since using it as an assault wont get any bonuses.

mmmm back to the "don't nerf all logis" thread or is it only me who feels we have gotten a bit off track and are harting a bit ot much at IWS

IF !! all logis have to give something up this is how i would imagine it happening:

LOGIS: overall bonus make equipment take 5% or 10% less CPU/PG per level.
Then also nerf CPU and PG by like 10%-20% and make logis go 0.2-0.3 slower than they do right now. The CPU/PG nerf but equipment bonus is meant to even out the difference so that putting on equipment as logis are meat to have won't be the problem. But if the logi tries to go all out complex shield this will now take up a bigger percentage of the overall CPU/PG than it would before therefore restricting a logi to go fx 5 complex shields or complex plates (LOL to last ). Logis are meant to be more squishy than assaults that's why we have lower base EHP and are slower than assaults. Instead logis are forced to use a big deal of their slots to try and even this out. Or at least this is what i do !!!
Assaults already have this this higher base EHP and speed so they can focus on stuff like putting damage mods or more stamina.
Hopefully something like this will make logi fits get a bit more "squishy" but make them retain the ability to equip a lot of equipments and help their team. Just my idea IF !! IF logis need to get a nerf i'll rather have something liek this than having logi slot layout bumped to assault level

AMARR: 10% bonus to armor repair module and equipment effectiveness per level
MINMATAR: 5% bonus to hacking speed and DISTANCE.
CALDARI: 10% bonus to shield regen per level. <----( Caldari logis won't get a major EHP buff but will be able to attend downed players and get back into cover and heal up)
GALLENTE: 1 HP/s passive armor repair. (galls pretty much stay as they are good now bonuswise )

ASSAULT: overall bonus 2% bonus to weapon damage.
AMARR: 10% bonus to weapon ammo capacity per level / or something better
MINMATAR: 5% bonus stamina regain and maximum amount.
CALDARI: 3% bonus to reload speed.
GALLENTE: 5% reduction to armor plate drawbacks / or something different

When assaults whine about the extra slots logis get this is where i'll point at the bonus to weapon damage. (everybody has said that assaults should get this and it is a very very good idea )
At level 3 assaults will run around with a extra high slot. In this high slot there has just already been put a enhanced damage for them. FREE OF CHARGE !! No CPU/PG used or anything now that. That's also why you loose your second equipment slot because if you had that you could step into the logis area.
Logi Bro also got some fantastic ideas out so IF !! IF the logis need a nerf look into buffing assaults FIRST and then look at logis again.
PS: heavies and scouts ??? did theey get thrown out or do they also have ****** bonuses ??

No. Not to discount your idea but im tired of conceding the premise that all the Logi's need a nerf or rework. Its so utterly annoying that ppl come up with a bs premise and ppl tell them they are full of BS and then someone trying to appease the whole community comes in with a "compromise"

Well NO im just tired of it. This is an utter bs premise the entire logi class is not in need of nerf and we have given more than enough arguments for why that is. If the Devs want to come in here and discuss it further thats one thing. But there isnt one scraping bit of rationale, proof or data that suggests that the any of the Logis outside of the Caldari needs any work.

snip!