This makes sense I get it, I just wish it counted as a hybrid since using it as an assault wont get any bonuses.

I called for someone to tell me what is OP about the Gal, Min, and Amarr logi about 3 pages ago still waiting lol they just get glossed over.

However IWS complained about what a logi can fit if they dont bother with equipment the simple solution to this make a logi suit invalid fitting unless you fill all the equipment slots and also change the Cal logi bonus to something else seeing as everyone of these logi slayers I have seen have been Caldari. I use Gallente and play support yet I can still go positive but only if I have support as well. But the fact that a logi goes positive obviously means they need a nerf right?

How dare anyone suggest that my Proto Amarr Logi Suit is better than anything if they havent played it. I am a support logi so far I have spent near 11 million sp and i am currently on a huge nerf compared to last build. I am slower I can only afford level 4 nanos due to pg and cant afford to get level 5 specs in engineering. I didn't have enough to skill up in my main weapon. I had to get the proto suit to even have enough points to get an advanced nano injector, proto repair tool and advanced nano hive. I have to give up allot of speed all my offence at the moment due to unable to afford more than exile and packed av gren when in the last build I used proto on every equipment slot avanced weapon and proto grens for further support to my team.

So here are my issues with me:

1. Proto suit has cost me offence and support through proto grens and bpo guns

2. Bright yellow on my suit has made me a target amounst my fellows

3. I am way slower since my suit is slow plus to take advantage of racial bonus I have to have armour to take advantage of repers.

4. I cant afford stamina buffs Sp wise for a long time as I still havent got core skills or maxed my support passives e.g. armor, enginegenering, support, armour reppers (self) or even any type of points in weaponry atm.

5. Even if I was level 5 in nano hives I cant afford to run proto nano injectors or proto nanohives due to having more slots than my assault but less base pg. This is to say nothing of being to use more than advanced weapons or grens.

For me as an Amarr Support logi this build has been a massive nerf I am equimpent slots down, and massive PG nerf means I cant support my team like I used to I have to make major sacrifices in offence, support or defence.


I don't know about caldari logi's but for me as a support logi as Amarr I have allready had a massive nerf in both pg and skill points I cannot do what I did in chromazone.

If assault players are using logi's to do assault by not specing in support and only using slots for pure offence why the hell would one nerf me who is struggling to be anywhere near as efficent on the battlefield as I was before. Before I was good at everything but master at none. Now I am poor at many things and good at one or two things.

My logi needs a buff in order to do what the discription says i.e. to be a support character who can dish out the damage. Because as of now I have the least PG, least equipment slots and cost a huge price in SP to make the proto suit work at minimal proto support levels.

In order to be a viable support class I had to talk to my clan leader and explain that I would have to be baby sat during engagments as by spending my points in proto logi and proto repair and advanced nanos has severly affected my ability to defend myself against advanced or proto gear players.

Nerfing the logi's are going to drive the support logi's out of the game. I want buffs to do my job properly not nerfs that are going to force me to run a severly gimped assault with tiny amount of support.

Because people are too simple minded to think like THIS

This would help. BUt will make overall everyone have a lot more HP. THus creating further inbalance.
I mean, what about scouts then ?

Why buff everything when you can just slightly debuff one thing ? Like takin off some mod-slots on logis and slightly buffing assault CPU\PG.

Heavies is another issue. We only have one variant of this frame.

Your problem is not tied to the fact that logi are unbalanced.
But to the fact that logi demands a massive SP investment.

But i'll return your observation. How can you state things when you only tried Amarr Logi and not Amarr Assault ? And without full skills ?

I tried both logi and assaults with full SP at FF. and logi tends to outmatch Assault easily. Why do you think entire corps run logis for all of their assault players now ?

And asking for tweaks doesnt mean people want to see logis becoming useless.....

A support class should provide support fire and aid players in the battlefield? maybe?


Each logistics suit is superior to its counter part in assault

A support class should provide support fire and aid players in the battlefield? maybe?


Each logistics suit is superior to its counter part in assault

This is why assault suits need a buff...we don't need to nerf logistics, changing the racial bonuses to something less ******** would be nice. Logistics suits have better cpu /pg and more slots with better armor Rep and sheild regan and less delay....how is it that the assault suit has less survivability? Sidearms don't mean jack in the current blob warfare. Sidearms are only needed for av users.

This is why assault suits need a buff...we don't need to nerf logistics, changing the racial bonuses to something less ******** would be nice. Logistics suits have better cpu /pg and more slots with better armor Rep and sheild regan and less delay....how is it that the assault suit has less survivability? Sidearms don't mean jack in the current blob warfare. Sidearms are only needed for av users.

A support class should provide support fire and aid players in the battlefield? maybe?


Each logistics suit is superior to its counter part in assault

Logis need more survivability because they can't repair themselves. They need tank because they stand out as easy targets. Assaults don't need survivability, they need a buff in their primary role: slaying. As far as the sidearm bonus goes, the Minmatar rifle might be a SMG on steroids. It looks like CCP did a lot of groundwork for future additions with Uprising.

It's primarily the Caldari line that's facing a disparity and that's in the racial buffs, those aside here's the breakdown.

Caldari
Assault
More Shields
More Armor
More Shield Recharge
More Movement Speed
More Sprint Speed
Longer Sprint Duration
More Stamina
Higher Stamina Recovery Rate
Higher Scan Precision
Posses a Sidearm

Logi
More CPU/PG
1 More high and low

Amarr
Assault
More Shields
More Shield Recharge
More Movement Speed
More Sprint Speed
Longer Sprint Duration
More Stamina
Higher Stamina Recovery Rate
Higher Scan Precision
MORE PG 70 as apposed to 67


Logi
More CPU


Minmatar
Assault
More Shields
Armor Repair Rate (suit native buff, does not require mods)
More Movement Speed
More Sprint Speed
Longer Sprint Duration
More Stamina
Higher Stamina Recovery Rate
Higher Scan Precision
Posses a Sidearm
1 more High Power slot

Logi
More CPU/PG
More Armor
More Shield Recharge
2 more Low Power slots

Gallente
Assault
More Shields
More Armor
More Shield Recharge
More Movement Speed
More Sprint Speed
Longer Sprint Duration
More Stamina
Higher Stamina Recovery Rate
Higher Scan Precision
Posses a Sidearm

Logi
More CPU/PG
1 More Low Power slot

Note: Since the concerns raised are about the Logi frame being more effective for an Assault build than the Assault frame I have omitted the Equip slots as none of the fits I'm aware of which push the Logi into a surpassing combat role include the ability to fit more than one Equip slot anyway.

So your conclusion is that an additional 1-2 slots and some more CPU/PG at the cost of base shields, base armor, shield recharge rate, base movement speed, base sprint speed, base sprint duration, stamina, stamina recovery, scan precision and a sidearm (Amarr aside, their internal race contrast is different) equates to a straight up better combat fit?
Please break it down for me in detail how is this the case?

Also bear in mind that a Logi fit with all slots filled by the same mods as it's Assault counterpart will be a more expensive fit (due to fitting additional total mods) so even a theoretical Logi suit with the same stats as an equivalent Assault suit will cost more ISK to field (again disregarding any more than 1 Equp slot on the assumption that this Logi isn't being fit for support or engineering).

Cheers,
Cross

EDIT:

^This

Further the assumption that more buffer tank = More survivability is oversimplified. Ignoring the effects scanning, speed, regen, and outgoing dps having on survivability is short sighted. If total raw HP totals (including fits) actually equated to the best combat fit everyone who wanted to excel as a 'slayer' would be running Heavy and all the top spots on the kills board would be held by Heavies. Defense is not equal to offense Assaults are slayers, their role calls for them to excel at gank not tank (which to reiterate actually does increase their overall survivability).

the amarr logi actually has to be buffed. it is the only suit with less PG than its racial assault brother and it has low amount of slots because it pays TWO slots as tax for a sidearm at proto levels.

now the problem: the sidearm is not available until proto making the suit weaker and actually the sidearm is not worth that much when you can run with an AR that is superb at all ranges.

And yes, we know that one day there will be plates with no penalties.
Armor plates without penalty? In what world are you living? They give you more HP then shield extenders and still offer you other things in the high slot. You cant have mobility and craploads of HP on armor. Shields are designed to be quick but less HP then armor. You have to think about it that in 1vs1 encounters armor is a better advantage cause you can take more bullets at a time. On the other hand shields are popular due to their fast recharge time. Most experienced players would pick armor+damage mods over shield without damage mods.

are we all forgetting that logis have a 5 armor rep built in? they don't need to rep themselves. I agree that logi need not be nerfed but assaults get their functionality back, currently logis are better at slaying. The whole build is a big cluster anyhow with precision scanning not doing a damn thing so scouts lose their edge....i dunno, it will all take some work...hopefully it can be fixed before soon tm

Don't nerf logi. Logi is fine.

Buff assault! It's a boring, crappy suit. Give it something special to make it work specing into.

Fixed the above Amarr Logi's have less pg than the assault variant not more.

LOL Fixed by who the same bumbling Devs that created this mess of a build in the first place.

A WHOLE LOT OF STUFF!!!

Cross, brother man, you and Redbleach, I'm glad to see you joined this nonsensical debate recently but we're going to lose in the end it seems, even the CPM seems to be preaching against Logis as a whole entity if words from IWS are to be taken at face value... and by "at face value" I mean the guy actually promoting Logis be limited to a Sidearm only, and all kinds of other ridiculousness. And CCP chose to put this guy up as our voice.

Anyway...



Spot on brother.


I like to math it out for people, but they seem afraid of numbers as hard data, that nice chart of which each suit excels at over it's competitor is simple and clear enough that even the shortest of the short-bus riding community can see there's no SUIT issue at all with anyone except maybe the Cal.

EDIT:

It's not even the class bonuses either as you've both pointed out.

It's the Racial bonus for the Caldari alone being so broken while assault bonuses are almost worthless across the board.

I really hope that these are what are "nerfed" and by "nerfed" I mean re-worked on the Cal Logi and all the assaults to give them more incentive to get into the Class suit branches in the first place and make everyone happier in the long-run, CCP included.

facepalm.

Really are we trying to put the suits into boxed in roles. While we are at it why not weapon restrictions. After all i hear heavies should only carry heavy weapons. Perhaps we should also prevent logis from using any dmg mods since they shouldnt be trying to kill at all. OH oh i know lets also make it so scouts can only use snipers and assaults can only use rifles and pistols while we are at it.

Thats how killzone, battlefield, socom, rainbox 6 and every other squad/class based shooter does it.