Well CCP Nullarbor who is supposed to be on weekend leave dropped into IRC and asked us what we'd thought about orbital drops/spawns.

Yes, when there's no CRU, the spawns should always be from orbit... The current state where people just appear is as immersion-breaking as fedo farm with pink elephants.

Yes, when there's no CRU, the spawns should always be from orbit... The current state where people just appear is as immersion-breaking as fedo farm with pink elephants.

Im not sure what your referring to.

Do you mean that we can literally drop from the sky?

If so...

AWESOME

Well, tactical Drop Up-Links are lore-backed. They are wormhole tech.

But yeah, pretty much anything else that's not the MCC or a CRU should be a HALO drop.

Well CCP Nullarbor who is supposed to be on weekend leave dropped into IRC and asked us what we'd thought about orbital drops/spawns.

He also affirmed that the dev blog out this next Thursday is his, CCP Nullarbor was working on the Faction Warfare system and how its all going to work.

So I am extended this subject to you folks on the forums. Argue among yourselves on why its a cool/bad idea, modes, cons, pros, how, when, much... those sort of things. Ill bring in what the IRC said so far about it in a later post and then point this thread to CCP Nullarbor when he gets back from wherever he disappeared today.

Also for your entertainment though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3W5lhUAy6hY.
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCsfHVM5x_I

I'm on the fence about this. Yes, awesome, yes, useful, but also yes, takes away from the rest of the game.

One big issue with Dust right now is that it's very difficult to maintain map ownership. This is mostly because the map design isn't as awesome as it could be. Being able to spawn anywhere on the map sounds like it'd decrease map ownership by a lot and those worsen this aspect of the game.

but he asked us for our thoughts, he didn't say anything about what ccp is doing with it. So if you have your ideas on how to do it and not cause so much problems spill the beans.

If orbital spawning woks anything like dropping out of the MCC with inertial dampeners then it will be utter fail as snipers will eat them alive.

They need the ability to instantly move after landing or a bit of shocwave generation that obscures the player drop or gives a 1-2s invincibility thought that has obvious issues.

- Doesn't stop spawn camping if I can watch you fall. Whether you're stuck in inertia dampener recovery or inside a drop pod, doesn't stop me from shooting you or positioning myself and having my crosshair on you before you're able to fight back.

- Allows even more nonsense of people on roofs, especially on buildings without ladders. I don't expect people to use it to get to the safest spot, rather to get to the dumbest spot they can possibly reach that would otherwise be inaccessible.

Would HALO be an appropriate term? I mean our suits have 0 atmo endurance of a few hours and capable of going on planets with no breathables.

Cons:

- Doesn't stop spawn camping if I can watch you fall. Whether you're stuck in inertia dampener recovery or inside a drop pod, doesn't stop me from shooting you or positioning myself and having my crosshair on you before you're able to fight back.

- Allows even more nonsense of people on roofs, especially on buildings without ladders. I don't expect people to use it to get to the safest spot, rather to get to the dumbest spot they can possibly reach that would otherwise be inaccessible.

I do not like this idea, because I can't think of any pros that could outweigh the above.

Yes, when there's no CRU, the spawns should always be from orbit... The current state where people just appear is as immersion-breaking as fedo farm with pink elephants.

Cons:

- Doesn't stop spawn camping if I can watch you fall. Whether you're stuck in inertia dampener recovery or inside a drop pod, doesn't stop me from shooting you or positioning myself and having my crosshair on you before you're able to fight back.

- Allows even more nonsense of people on roofs, especially on buildings without ladders. I don't expect people to use it to get to the safest spot, rather to get to the dumbest spot they can possibly reach that would otherwise be inaccessible.

I do not like this idea, because I can't think of any pros that could outweigh the above.

I always pictured this as why we wear "drop suits" sky spawning should be included for sure.

Ideally you can controlled your descent to some degree but the default fall zone is in the general direction of your squad leader if he has not set up a hot zone. Otherwise he can set up a drop zone that is static like rally points, or onto a certain soldier to help that merc with his current assignment. This is something that would help with squad involvement and team play.


Some limitations would be that you can't be shot until a certain height before hitting the ground, but at that same vulnerable stage you can start firing your weapon as well. So say the last 2 seconds or something you can be shot but you can also fire back.

The only problem I see with it is landing on buildings and high places becoming a total sniper debacle.

One such thing could be drop pods giving you extended shields while you are in range of it to give you a chance of clearing anyone trying to camp you off. Would be like having a super charged shield for like 10 seconds that boosts you to have Heavy grade defenses even with militia gear for that given time.

- Have MCC commanders preselect the DZ's for their team. Delay spawning until four mercs select the same DZ or a time limit is reached. Ta-da, instant back-up if the DZ is hot.

I have to agree about building camping being an issue. However as for getting killed if you dropped poorly, its entirely just as much your fault for picking such obvious place. There have been plenty of times people dropping tanks and lavs without getting shot on a platform that screams 'shoot me' on the way down more than anything.

We don't even have the commander role yet. Also, we don't have MCCs in ambush. Are we going to have commander mode in pubs (thought it was supposed to be only in like the conquest mode or whatever, which should be in corp play)?

Pros:
- Looks really cool.

- Makes uplinks more useful for defending cannons if you can't just spawn on the objective.

Not sure how this inherently makes uplinks more useful, or what spawning by dropping in from the sky has anything to do with your ability to spawn at objectives - the two aren't mutually exclusive.

- Reduces clustering on ambush maps and allows for easier flanking maneuvers.

The old spawn system did as well. This isn't something only sky spawning can give us.

- Gives CCP more skills for us to sink points into.

Why do I need to spend SP on spawning?

- Easier to escape being red-lined. Just drop with some buddies behind the lines and plant an uplink.

This should never be possible. Sky spawning should never allow you to drop behind defenses or controlled territory if you don't already have an uplink or CRU there.

- Still looks really cool.

- Reduces spawn sniping because of a lack of predefined points to aim at.

More spawn points would fix this. It's not something limited to only dropping in from the sky. In fact, snipers would probably be the ones to more easily see people falling down than be able to guess when someone is going to just materialize on the ground.

- Won't get shotgunned in the back by a scout who silently spawned behind you while you were hacking.

The silent part is the only thing this would fix, assuming dropping in would have accompanying audio. This is more a problem with being able to spawn at objectives rather than how they spawn.

Honestly if you are going OD for all spawns then you will need some sort of orbital counter, which could be provided by eve-ships. The vidoes I have seen and all the lore I have read dont really mention dropping from orbit or low orbit, its always been from atmo well below the space faring ships. This is where the MCC comes in for skirmish and i really dont think anything is wrong with the skirmish spawn methods EXCEPT null cannons dont have built in drop uplinks, the command bunkers do but you would need to spawn inside the command bunkers to be true to lore. Maye thats being too petty tho!

As far as ambush goes there really should be MCC spawn only unless a droplink/mcu is in play. The area around the MCC should be guarded within a small proximity (what kind of drop ship like that does not have guns seriously?) I guess there could be spanw waves where a dropship comes in and ejects soldiers over an area like in the immortal clones video but you would have to give the ability for AV to shoot it down, maybe make them player pilotable (control over drop trajectory sort of not liek dropship flying now) if you want to get to a specific area or npc controlled but drops you behind you? The only other option I would see is a few unconquerable "bunkers" but Im unsure how that would work too other than like in TF2.

It would have to have significant drawbacks to it. Ie: longer spawn times and inaccurate drops ( something like a random location within a 100m radius from your selection) otherwise drop uplinks would be pointless along with crus.

YES!

There is the problem of drop time adding to the time it takes to spawn. Solution is to remove respawn time, and just use the time it takes to land as a natural respawn timer.

I'm on the fence about this. Yes, awesome, yes, useful, but also yes, takes away from the rest of the game.

One big issue with Dust right now is that it's very difficult to maintain map ownership. This is mostly because the map design isn't as awesome as it could be. Being able to spawn anywhere on the map sounds like it'd decrease map ownership by a lot and those worsen this aspect of the game.

There is a game on the PC called Section 8, it actually deals with this aspect of drop podding quite well.

It'd look cool but it'd have gameplay ramifications, the most obvious of which is that you're falling in from the sky, presumably with an inertial dampener. People will see you when you spawn, sometimes. There's also the question of vulnerability when you spawn. As well, is the descent controlled, like Planetside 2 drop pods? Or do you land at a specific place that, presumably, enemies could run to as they see you appear overhead?

I suggested a Section 8 like spawn system a long time ago, but it was shot down by the community saying its a stupid idea.
Suddenly some people like it, who knew.

When I suggested it a long time ago, people liked it.

Yup, I remember that.
I in fact posted my thread in your thread since we had the same idea.

I knew I recognised the name from somewhere...

Well, at least it's finally getting noticed... I guess?

Doesn't section 8 have the orbital drop spawns as exclusive?

Reading the drop pod Idea... all i can think is landing in the thing as the doors burst open charging out with a squad full of heavies using heavy bolters using my tech marine to repair them screaming FOR THE EMPRAH...

but yea i still wouldn't mind the idea i think it could be an amusing addition to the game.

Yeah and it actually works well.
I'm really sad the game was a flop.
I mean really, it was a great game (one of the best shooters at the time of its release) for 15$, 15$!
I don't understand why people didn't buy it.

I liked the drop pods before they were removed, they provided cover for mercs deploying and really added to the look and feel that we were dropping from orbit.
I also agree that the drop uplinks should allow us to drop in an area close to them. If the drop pods could sync with the uplinks it would be better than the current CRU tech on the battlefield.
These were removed due to a need to work on the uplinks if I remember correctly.
Death from being under one as it lands would be nice too. Then we could get kills from deploying over top of an enemy position.



Please bring back the drop pods!

Well CCP Nullarbor who is supposed to be on weekend leave dropped into IRC and asked the irc crew what we'd thought about orbital drops/spawns.

So as part of the new community outreach, I am extended this subject to you folks on the forums. Argue among yourselves on why its a cool/bad idea, scenarios, modes, when, costs, risk vs rewards, conditions, skills?, equipment, material costs, cons, pros, how, when, how much isk/sp/time?... those sort of things.
Basically if you where in charge of designing the orbital drop spawn system, how would you do it?

Remember CCP Nullarbor only asked about the idea. He gave no indication of how/if/what/should or anything that would indicate on how it will work or even be used with the current system so it's all up to you guys to deliberate and debate on that.

As promised pointed the thread to CCP Nullarbor and he is already aware of the thread.

Remember to speak up your opinion even if something similar is already said by another person. Your reasonings could be different for the same methods mentioned. (or same reasoning with different methods)

Also any threads you may have made in the past over this idea link em in the thread if you want.

Also for your entertainment though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3W5lhUAy6hY.
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCsfHVM5x_I

As for an ingame dust 514 example of possible ways of accomplishment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI53ydJaus8
Near the start where the 'drop pod' drops the entire squad down.

He also affirmed that the dev blog out this next Thursday is his, CCP Nullarbor was working on the Faction Warfare system and how its all going to work. So that would be an interesting read for those concerned about the game's near future.

My impressions and comment...

1. How to do Orbital Drops / HALO jumps
2. How to counter the Drops
3. Various
4. Alternatives

1st - How to do Orbital Drops / HALO jumps
This section deals with how to Drop, seen from the Merc's side, and options to improve the Drop.

- Select a general location with a 50m uncertainty, to avoid people doing pinpointed drops. Drops come at "random" per-battle angles (you insert for same area in the sky). Modules could allow for added precision.
- Drop in an Individual Insertion Vehicle (or "pod") until either ejecting or 40m above floor (floor != ground), with ability to do minimal correction to trajectory. Skill to allow slightly more control, but nothing significant.
- Upon ejection, is merc's responsibility to enable Inertial Dampners.


2nd - How to counter the Drops
This deals with how to handle Mercs, that choose to insert via a Drop.

- During the Drop, depending on Atmosphere, there would be visible trails in the sky from the Vehicle, and likely sonic booms, all indicating where a Merc either is dropping or has dropped.
- While dropping, the vehicle (or exposed Merc) can be shot by other players, while the vehicle will also be a target for installations, in line with DropShips etc
- When an opposing Merc has dropped, it is up to the team/squad to decide whether to dispatch a squad to deal with the target. If he/she dropped somewhere non-critical, can perhaps be ignored momentarily


3rd - Various, or why this works
Here I'll try to outline why this is perfectly valid.

- Drops are High-Risk, High-Gain methods of insertion. It is plausible the vehicle, and Merc inside, will be shot out of the sky before reaching safety, or that he/she will encounter a squad sent to dispatch the new threat. Meanwhile, if successfull, the Merc can set up a base with Drop Link etc for calling in the rest of his/her squad.
- Drops are not the only method of insertion. CRUs (possibly inserted during initial stages), mCRUs (eg DropShips), DropLinks and possibly MCC spawns for attackers, or a home-base for the defender, are all still valid. Drops should only be used as the exception (or because, "Look At Me, weee").
- Drops add an extra element of strategy (and possible ISK+SP sink)
- Drops add a reasonable mechanism for establishing a "beach head" in a fight, where first step can be to Drop the Team into Squad-coordinated locations.
- Uncertainty in Drops means it may be difficult for snipers to hit a given roof-top/moutainside/whatever, leaving them at a bad location. Likewise, a Squad deploying in an urban enviroment may find that squad-members are spread out, with walls/buildings between them.


4th - Alternative options
Finally, some different options...

- Insertion vehicles (i.e. "pods") do not need to be individual. Could also be larger vehicles, similar to an RDV or a larger "pod", from which a number of Mercs can deploy. With a turn-around time, there would be a delay, and all Mercs that are willing to (or having to) wait, will be collected and dispatched together. This adds an element of insertion-of-force (more than a single Merc), and added control, but also paints a bigger target.
- Spawn-On-Merc - a DropLink-like module carried by a Merc that you simply spawn "next to".
- Deploying a CRU - a CRU that TeamLead/Commander can deploy to create a ground-base, so Mercs don't have to insert from space/orbit.
- Squad-jumps - where your Squad Lead chooses the destination, and you simply have to tag along with the rest of the squad. Could force some teamwork within your squad.



OIverall, I support the notion of Orbital Drops, both for effect and strategy. Seeing a team of 24-32 red Mercs deploying would be absolutely stunning and scary, and being able to use AA guns to hinder their insertion, only more so!


Edit: If wanted, I can extend into Insertion Vehicles ("Pods" etc), options and costs.

Yes, when there's no CRU, the spawns should always be from orbit... The current state where people just appear is as immersion-breaking as fedo farm with pink elephants.

I can happily support those two changes to the current system and Baal if your vision were in place I think that would indeed add nuance to Skirmish that would be a breath of fresh air.

Having said that I do feel the need to post a couple of counter points to other ideas raised in this thread, if any of the ideas I'm responding to are now "outdated" in favor of the above quoted suggestions feel free to ignore my responses on those counts and I'll proceed in this thread under the assumption that they're ideas which we've moved beyond during the course of discussion and are no longer on the table.

More CRUs - This in itself is a fine idea, but is in no way a possible substitue for the current NC spawn points. Our standard CRUs can be popped by HAV fire (or even upgraded LAV/Forge fire) much more rapidly that seems to have been acknowledged. I've been in matches as recently as tonight where a single Proto Swarm user took out all the CRUs and Depots on the map from behind his own teams lines of defense and still had time/ammo to take out several LAVs as well. If one guy with swarms can do that even doubling or tripling the total CRUs pre map won't allow them to survive a single squad who's decided to take them out. This leads to far less tactical game play as one squad (or less) can unilaterally redefine the battlefield and increase the frequency of spawn camps. Red lines are boaring and are fed by having few/bottlenecked spawing locations, we need less of it not more.

Sky Spawn - Another case of an idea that is fine and even good as an addition to the game but as a substitution becomes terrible. Talk about removing tactical game play make every spawn both more obvious to opposing forces and more vulnerable to being DOA. Again spawn camping reduces fun and should be minimized not supported by map mechanics, which forcing mercs into a predictable, obvious and exposed spawning method most certainly does.

Uplinks - These are heavily underused, and granted the "hidden in the terrain" bug is a problem but they honestly don't need a buff or more of a reason for use. In fact making them more tactically useful pushes the limits of being broken.
I can already get 4 uplinks out during the opening of a match on my own having set up a spawn network on/near ever NC. With a squad of 4 that's 16 links and that's while only having level 1 in the uplinks skill. When I had proto uplinks before the wipe I could nearly hit that squad mark by myself and I'm usually able to earn several hundred WPs off the uplinks alone (that becomes around a thousand in an ambush oms which the total removal of static/indestructible spawns would push skirmish towards). Beyond that having them be a "mainstay" of general spawning as opposed to tactical spawning runs into the same sorts of problems that CRUs face as outlined above, except that you don't even need AV to take them out.

Hacking - Solo Don't undersell the value of character skills. During closed beta I ran a solo infiltrator hack fit with full skill support. I used only the SMG as a weapon and was still able to 'run the table' on many pub matches. I did not need to kill opposing forces, and I rarely ever got popped by either hidden forces or spawners, such a role is not only viable but highly effective (in pubs anyway, Corp/FW is another beast).
Squad - The squad I run with tends to have one guy start the hack and to others jump on at 50%. This not only means max WP gains from it but also that we're rarely pulled off the hack by incoming hostile squads, much less piecemeal spawn ins.

Summation - I agree with much of the principle of this thread but any alterations must be done very carefully with an eye to maintaining many dynamic spawn locations that are not purely player dependent as in the present game it is already far to easy to trap and spawn camp a team removing all tactical play from the game. I highly support the quoted text above but would add current CRUs should at least stay at present levels (tho more would be fine) even with those changes.

Cheers,
Cross

I've seen and experienced Orbital Drops in Starhawk and it led to a lot of camping. The drop gave away positions like no-one's business and the Starhawk mech would swoop in and either bomb the mess out of you or wait for you to emerge. Take this in Ambush and you will see the opposing side knowing exactly where to camp if there is a limited area, or watch as the map descends into utter chaos as people are dropping everywhere. It really isn't a great idea. Also, it detracts from DROPSHIPS with mCRUs, which are meant for people to spawn on and to drop from. Anyways, just my 2 cents and experience on this subject.

I've seen and experienced Orbital Drops in Starhawk and it led to a lot of camping. The drop gave away positions like no-one's business and the Starhawk mech would swoop in and either bomb the mess out of you or wait for you to emerge. Take this in Ambush and you will see the opposing side knowing exactly where to camp if there is a limited area, or watch as the map descends into utter chaos as people are dropping everywhere. It really isn't a great idea. Also, it detracts from DROPSHIPS with mCRUs, which are meant for people to spawn on and to drop from. Anyways, just my 2 cents and experience on this subject.

Reposting basically what I've said in my Sky SpawningGäó thread.

CRU spawns, since you're spawning in a Clone Reanimation unit, should work as they do now. Drop Uplinks, as a variant of wormhole tech, should work as they do now. MCC spawns involve a clone from the MCC being activated.

Ambush "random" spawns, and Skirmish objective spawns, and the Skirmish "default" spawn that's currently on the ground should all be changed to use an air-drop.

In addition to this spawn mechanic, the falling mechanics in the game need adjusting.

While a player is in free-fall - not just a normal fall from jumping, but when you've fallen far enough to take the free-fall position and trigger the prompt for your Inertia Dampener - you should have (limited) ability to adjust the direction of your fall. On activating your Inertia Dampener, you fall faster, but you light up and you lose the ability to control your descent. This makes you a harder target, but makes you more visible.

This will encourage players - while not under fire - to hold off on triggering their Inertia Dampener until the last second to avoid their blue glow giving them away. It will also encourage players who have been spotted and are actively being fired on to use the Dampener to speed up their descent and evade the incoming fire.

With Ambush spawns - adjusted as many people have requested so that enemy presence is more heavily weighted than friendlies - this would mean you're usually dropping into a less dangerous part of the map, and you have the ability to fine-tune your landing position based on the location of nearby enemies, who you'll see as you're falling. With Skirmish, you're dropping into an area your team already controls, so you SHOULD have someone handy to keep enemies off you, OR you should have reinforcements landing around the same time as you.

This mechanic should never be introduced UNLESS you put in an NPC 'Spawn Point' in the sky. At the moment, EVERYTHING should be backed up by an in-game element. If you want to do an AIR DROP, use a Drop Ship with a Mobile CRU.

Having an NPC 'Drop Ship'to allow for sky spawning detracts from the Player-controlled aspect of the game that makes this a team game.

Reposting basically what I've said in my Sky SpawningGäó thread.

CRU spawns, since you're spawning in a Clone Reanimation unit, should work as they do now. Drop Uplinks, as a variant of wormhole tech, should work as they do now. MCC spawns involve a clone from the MCC being activated.

Ambush "random" spawns, and Skirmish objective spawns, and the Skirmish "default" spawn that's currently on the ground should all be changed to use an air-drop.

In addition to this spawn mechanic, the falling mechanics in the game need adjusting.

While a player is in free-fall - not just a normal fall from jumping, but when you've fallen far enough to take the free-fall position and trigger the prompt for your Inertia Dampener - you should have (limited) ability to adjust the direction of your fall. On activating your Inertia Dampener, you fall faster, but you light up and you lose the ability to control your descent. This makes you a harder target, but makes you more visible.

This will encourage players - while not under fire - to hold off on triggering their Inertia Dampener until the last second to avoid their blue glow giving them away. It will also encourage players who have been spotted and are actively being fired on to use the Dampener to speed up their descent and evade the incoming fire.

With Ambush spawns - adjusted as many people have requested so that enemy presence is more heavily weighted than friendlies - this would mean you're usually dropping into a less dangerous part of the map, and you have the ability to fine-tune your landing position based on the location of nearby enemies, who you'll see as you're falling. With Skirmish, you're dropping into an area your team already controls, so you SHOULD have someone handy to keep enemies off you, OR you should have reinforcements landing around the same time as you.

In my own personal vision, each objective would have an accompanying "built in" CRU that was NEAR the objective, but not directly on top of it. Some maps currently have this already for some objectives. Yes, it seems like a minor change, but the strategic implications would add quite a bit to the game, making the choice of "do we hack the objective or the CRU first" (and defenders would have to make similar choices) much more important.

It's a low-orbit drop from the Warbarge, directed towards a designated "safe zone" within the battle area. Designated in Skirmish by your team controlling the location, and in Ambush by the balance of your team's presence in the area vs. the presence of enemies.

Good enough lore-based reason for you? If not, I'm sure CCP can make a better one than I did.

I will still post against this idea. While the concept is great, and the possibilities are also great, the plain fact is, that we have the ability to do this now, using PLAYER input.

- You put a DROPSHIP in the sky with a CRU... when you die, you spawn in said Dropship... Pilot puts you where you need to be... you jump, and fall... (Sky Spawning).

It is all about teamwork as it stands, and this is how it should be.

Introducing any Non-Player aspect to replace a mechanic we have at the moment that is player controlled, is ludicrous, and pointless... I'd rather see Dropships buffed, given the ability to fly higher to better facilitate said sky spawns. The MCC is a 'sky spawn' in a safe zone (relatively speaking) as many have stated.

Sky Spawning without player interaction will lead to Camping Snipers 'drop spawning' to their points without any assistance to get there, leading further to the death of Dropship pilots. Who are already labouring under insufficient SP and reward for what is one of the best jobs, and most useful professions we have in the game at this time.

I will still post against this idea. While the concept is great, and the possibilities are also great, the plain fact is, that we have the ability to do this now, using PLAYER input.

- You put a DROPSHIP in the sky with a CRU... when you die, you spawn in said Dropship... Pilot puts you where you need to be... you jump, and fall... (Sky Spawning).

It is all about teamwork as it stands, and this is how it should be.

Introducing any Non-Player aspect to replace a mechanic we have at the moment that is player controlled, is ludicrous, and pointless... I'd rather see Dropships buffed, given the ability to fly higher to better facilitate said sky spawns. The MCC is a 'sky spawn' in a safe zone (relatively speaking) as many have stated.

Sky Spawning without player interaction will lead to Camping Snipers 'drop spawning' to their points without any assistance to get there, leading further to the death of Dropship pilots. Who are already labouring under insufficient SP and reward for what is one of the best jobs, and most useful professions we have in the game at this time.

> Does this mean we are just saying **** the only thing that dropships might be able to do?

What limitation is there not to be able to drop into enemy territory? As above, there was mention that the Warbarge has viewpoint over the entire district and doesn't need to move to drop you, so why wouldn't you be able to drop into any location you wanted?

I'm not advocating the idea, but merely pointing out that if you want to be able to drop ONLY onto a specific point, determined by an illusory 'line' across the battlefield, there should be some mechanic to prevent you dropping into enemy territory.

As to the campers... there are a lot of 'behind the line' camping places... Some of these are at present inaccessible. The snipers running up the hills to their overwatch vantage points is about the only reprieve you ever get from them at the beginning of the battle, and if such a point was accessible via Drop spawn at the outset, it could be devastating to the force who 'hasn't got that vantage point or inclined snipers from the start.

As I said in every post I've made so far about it, you'd only be able to drop into areas deemed "safe" - that meaning there's no enemy presence, or there's a secure position in your team's hands.

In Skirmish, you can drop on the NULL Cannons (or, as some have suggested, build CRUs into them to explain spawning on objectives), and in Ambush, when the spawn system is working properly, you'll be able to spawn in a relatively secure position on the battlefield - away from enemies, and preferentially near your teammates.

When they introduce player control to the Warbarge, this could possibly include the ability to actually direct where the orbital drop will be aimed, allowing a team's commander to reposition their spawn area as they see fit. At that point, a Corp with a commander on the Warbarge will have the option of spawning anywhere on the map, but it comes with the risk of the commander setting their team up to be spawn-camped and dropping them into hotzones without a fair chance. It will also require effective communication and team-level coordination for this to be a better option than leaving it in the hands of the AI.

And if you don't like things being out of the players' hands, are you against allowing us to use the same Warbarge to call in a Precision Strike? When working with EVE players in a Corp Battle, you can request a ship in space to fire, and you're relying on player interaction across games for their supporting fire to actually arrive. If you use the Precision Strike, the Warbarge just drops it immediately. When we have commanders on board the Warbarges, they'll be responsible for directing this fire, but until then it's NPC-controlled even thought it's player-directed. Just like the spawn system would be under my proposal.

Effectively, the current system - or any variant of it - has LESS player involvement. You're dropped into a fixed predetermined-by-code location, with no control over even the slightest details of where you're going to land. What I'm asking for is a system that gives players MORE freedom than we currently have.

How about lowflying ships that come in low and fast on a preset path (or one of several, if you prefer), dropping pods at one of several dedicated drop sites (no roof camping for you, champ). If you wanted a dust cloud in the low flying aircraft's wake that conveniently obscures a snipers sight if your pod for a second or two, sure. That way, players still get a way to choose where they want to spawn, while preventing roof campers and giving the feeling of being in some caddy Michael bay movie

Any point that isn't a CRU (still needs fixing but different), drop uplink or MCC (which all have lore based reasons for existing such as wormholes and clone supplies) should be done via an RDV.

Skirmish - spawn time is 10 seconds? Pick your fit and then, instead of staring at a map with a clock on it, you could reduce the timer to say 3 seconds and have a 7 second animation where you are stuck in the RDV waiting to drop (will give you a window to cancel choice). The RDV is cloaked, so perhaps you should be cloaked for a certain period of time after the drop. If it takes 5 seconds to reach the ground from an RDV then make it a 3 second cloak.

Give players some limited mobility; perhaps something like a wingsuit? If it limits the movement so there is a certain radius you can land within it means that 3 second cloak gives you time to move toward a location and will mean snipers etc that are 'camping' a spawn have 2 seconds to hit you.

Players will now have visibility before they are being shot at a spawn point, but aren't able to shoot anyone before they can be shot either; gives you time to prepare even if you are hopelessly outnumbered at the drop point. In a game where every life can have actual consequences (i.e. loss of isk/aur) being killed before you have control/awareness is immensely frustrating.