I liked the drop pods before they were removed, they provided cover for mercs deploying and really added to the look and feel that we were dropping from orbit.
I also agree that the drop uplinks should allow us to drop in an area close to them. If the drop pods could sync with the uplinks it would be better than the current CRU tech on the battlefield.
These were removed due to a need to work on the uplinks if I remember correctly.
Death from being under one as it lands would be nice too. Then we could get kills from deploying over top of an enemy position.



Please bring back the drop pods!

Well CCP Nullarbor who is supposed to be on weekend leave dropped into IRC and asked the irc crew what we'd thought about orbital drops/spawns.

So as part of the new community outreach, I am extended this subject to you folks on the forums. Argue among yourselves on why its a cool/bad idea, scenarios, modes, when, costs, risk vs rewards, conditions, skills?, equipment, material costs, cons, pros, how, when, how much isk/sp/time?... those sort of things.
Basically if you where in charge of designing the orbital drop spawn system, how would you do it?

Remember CCP Nullarbor only asked about the idea. He gave no indication of how/if/what/should or anything that would indicate on how it will work or even be used with the current system so it's all up to you guys to deliberate and debate on that.

As promised pointed the thread to CCP Nullarbor and he is already aware of the thread.

Remember to speak up your opinion even if something similar is already said by another person. Your reasonings could be different for the same methods mentioned. (or same reasoning with different methods)

Also any threads you may have made in the past over this idea link em in the thread if you want.

Also for your entertainment though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3W5lhUAy6hY.
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCsfHVM5x_I

As for an ingame dust 514 example of possible ways of accomplishment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI53ydJaus8
Near the start where the 'drop pod' drops the entire squad down.

He also affirmed that the dev blog out this next Thursday is his, CCP Nullarbor was working on the Faction Warfare system and how its all going to work. So that would be an interesting read for those concerned about the game's near future.

My impressions and comment...

1. How to do Orbital Drops / HALO jumps
2. How to counter the Drops
3. Various
4. Alternatives

1st - How to do Orbital Drops / HALO jumps
This section deals with how to Drop, seen from the Merc's side, and options to improve the Drop.

- Select a general location with a 50m uncertainty, to avoid people doing pinpointed drops. Drops come at "random" per-battle angles (you insert for same area in the sky). Modules could allow for added precision.
- Drop in an Individual Insertion Vehicle (or "pod") until either ejecting or 40m above floor (floor != ground), with ability to do minimal correction to trajectory. Skill to allow slightly more control, but nothing significant.
- Upon ejection, is merc's responsibility to enable Inertial Dampners.


2nd - How to counter the Drops
This deals with how to handle Mercs, that choose to insert via a Drop.

- During the Drop, depending on Atmosphere, there would be visible trails in the sky from the Vehicle, and likely sonic booms, all indicating where a Merc either is dropping or has dropped.
- While dropping, the vehicle (or exposed Merc) can be shot by other players, while the vehicle will also be a target for installations, in line with DropShips etc
- When an opposing Merc has dropped, it is up to the team/squad to decide whether to dispatch a squad to deal with the target. If he/she dropped somewhere non-critical, can perhaps be ignored momentarily


3rd - Various, or why this works
Here I'll try to outline why this is perfectly valid.

- Drops are High-Risk, High-Gain methods of insertion. It is plausible the vehicle, and Merc inside, will be shot out of the sky before reaching safety, or that he/she will encounter a squad sent to dispatch the new threat. Meanwhile, if successfull, the Merc can set up a base with Drop Link etc for calling in the rest of his/her squad.
- Drops are not the only method of insertion. CRUs (possibly inserted during initial stages), mCRUs (eg DropShips), DropLinks and possibly MCC spawns for attackers, or a home-base for the defender, are all still valid. Drops should only be used as the exception (or because, "Look At Me, weee").
- Drops add an extra element of strategy (and possible ISK+SP sink)
- Drops add a reasonable mechanism for establishing a "beach head" in a fight, where first step can be to Drop the Team into Squad-coordinated locations.
- Uncertainty in Drops means it may be difficult for snipers to hit a given roof-top/moutainside/whatever, leaving them at a bad location. Likewise, a Squad deploying in an urban enviroment may find that squad-members are spread out, with walls/buildings between them.


4th - Alternative options
Finally, some different options...

- Insertion vehicles (i.e. "pods") do not need to be individual. Could also be larger vehicles, similar to an RDV or a larger "pod", from which a number of Mercs can deploy. With a turn-around time, there would be a delay, and all Mercs that are willing to (or having to) wait, will be collected and dispatched together. This adds an element of insertion-of-force (more than a single Merc), and added control, but also paints a bigger target.
- Spawn-On-Merc - a DropLink-like module carried by a Merc that you simply spawn "next to".
- Deploying a CRU - a CRU that TeamLead/Commander can deploy to create a ground-base, so Mercs don't have to insert from space/orbit.
- Squad-jumps - where your Squad Lead chooses the destination, and you simply have to tag along with the rest of the squad. Could force some teamwork within your squad.



OIverall, I support the notion of Orbital Drops, both for effect and strategy. Seeing a team of 24-32 red Mercs deploying would be absolutely stunning and scary, and being able to use AA guns to hinder their insertion, only more so!


Edit: If wanted, I can extend into Insertion Vehicles ("Pods" etc), options and costs.

Yes, when there's no CRU, the spawns should always be from orbit... The current state where people just appear is as immersion-breaking as fedo farm with pink elephants.

I can happily support those two changes to the current system and Baal if your vision were in place I think that would indeed add nuance to Skirmish that would be a breath of fresh air.

Having said that I do feel the need to post a couple of counter points to other ideas raised in this thread, if any of the ideas I'm responding to are now "outdated" in favor of the above quoted suggestions feel free to ignore my responses on those counts and I'll proceed in this thread under the assumption that they're ideas which we've moved beyond during the course of discussion and are no longer on the table.

More CRUs - This in itself is a fine idea, but is in no way a possible substitue for the current NC spawn points. Our standard CRUs can be popped by HAV fire (or even upgraded LAV/Forge fire) much more rapidly that seems to have been acknowledged. I've been in matches as recently as tonight where a single Proto Swarm user took out all the CRUs and Depots on the map from behind his own teams lines of defense and still had time/ammo to take out several LAVs as well. If one guy with swarms can do that even doubling or tripling the total CRUs pre map won't allow them to survive a single squad who's decided to take them out. This leads to far less tactical game play as one squad (or less) can unilaterally redefine the battlefield and increase the frequency of spawn camps. Red lines are boaring and are fed by having few/bottlenecked spawing locations, we need less of it not more.

Sky Spawn - Another case of an idea that is fine and even good as an addition to the game but as a substitution becomes terrible. Talk about removing tactical game play make every spawn both more obvious to opposing forces and more vulnerable to being DOA. Again spawn camping reduces fun and should be minimized not supported by map mechanics, which forcing mercs into a predictable, obvious and exposed spawning method most certainly does.

Uplinks - These are heavily underused, and granted the "hidden in the terrain" bug is a problem but they honestly don't need a buff or more of a reason for use. In fact making them more tactically useful pushes the limits of being broken.
I can already get 4 uplinks out during the opening of a match on my own having set up a spawn network on/near ever NC. With a squad of 4 that's 16 links and that's while only having level 1 in the uplinks skill. When I had proto uplinks before the wipe I could nearly hit that squad mark by myself and I'm usually able to earn several hundred WPs off the uplinks alone (that becomes around a thousand in an ambush oms which the total removal of static/indestructible spawns would push skirmish towards). Beyond that having them be a "mainstay" of general spawning as opposed to tactical spawning runs into the same sorts of problems that CRUs face as outlined above, except that you don't even need AV to take them out.

Hacking - Solo Don't undersell the value of character skills. During closed beta I ran a solo infiltrator hack fit with full skill support. I used only the SMG as a weapon and was still able to 'run the table' on many pub matches. I did not need to kill opposing forces, and I rarely ever got popped by either hidden forces or spawners, such a role is not only viable but highly effective (in pubs anyway, Corp/FW is another beast).
Squad - The squad I run with tends to have one guy start the hack and to others jump on at 50%. This not only means max WP gains from it but also that we're rarely pulled off the hack by incoming hostile squads, much less piecemeal spawn ins.

Summation - I agree with much of the principle of this thread but any alterations must be done very carefully with an eye to maintaining many dynamic spawn locations that are not purely player dependent as in the present game it is already far to easy to trap and spawn camp a team removing all tactical play from the game. I highly support the quoted text above but would add current CRUs should at least stay at present levels (tho more would be fine) even with those changes.

Cheers,
Cross

I've seen and experienced Orbital Drops in Starhawk and it led to a lot of camping. The drop gave away positions like no-one's business and the Starhawk mech would swoop in and either bomb the mess out of you or wait for you to emerge. Take this in Ambush and you will see the opposing side knowing exactly where to camp if there is a limited area, or watch as the map descends into utter chaos as people are dropping everywhere. It really isn't a great idea. Also, it detracts from DROPSHIPS with mCRUs, which are meant for people to spawn on and to drop from. Anyways, just my 2 cents and experience on this subject.

I've seen and experienced Orbital Drops in Starhawk and it led to a lot of camping. The drop gave away positions like no-one's business and the Starhawk mech would swoop in and either bomb the mess out of you or wait for you to emerge. Take this in Ambush and you will see the opposing side knowing exactly where to camp if there is a limited area, or watch as the map descends into utter chaos as people are dropping everywhere. It really isn't a great idea. Also, it detracts from DROPSHIPS with mCRUs, which are meant for people to spawn on and to drop from. Anyways, just my 2 cents and experience on this subject.

Reposting basically what I've said in my Sky SpawningGäó thread.

CRU spawns, since you're spawning in a Clone Reanimation unit, should work as they do now. Drop Uplinks, as a variant of wormhole tech, should work as they do now. MCC spawns involve a clone from the MCC being activated.

Ambush "random" spawns, and Skirmish objective spawns, and the Skirmish "default" spawn that's currently on the ground should all be changed to use an air-drop.

In addition to this spawn mechanic, the falling mechanics in the game need adjusting.

While a player is in free-fall - not just a normal fall from jumping, but when you've fallen far enough to take the free-fall position and trigger the prompt for your Inertia Dampener - you should have (limited) ability to adjust the direction of your fall. On activating your Inertia Dampener, you fall faster, but you light up and you lose the ability to control your descent. This makes you a harder target, but makes you more visible.

This will encourage players - while not under fire - to hold off on triggering their Inertia Dampener until the last second to avoid their blue glow giving them away. It will also encourage players who have been spotted and are actively being fired on to use the Dampener to speed up their descent and evade the incoming fire.

With Ambush spawns - adjusted as many people have requested so that enemy presence is more heavily weighted than friendlies - this would mean you're usually dropping into a less dangerous part of the map, and you have the ability to fine-tune your landing position based on the location of nearby enemies, who you'll see as you're falling. With Skirmish, you're dropping into an area your team already controls, so you SHOULD have someone handy to keep enemies off you, OR you should have reinforcements landing around the same time as you.

This mechanic should never be introduced UNLESS you put in an NPC 'Spawn Point' in the sky. At the moment, EVERYTHING should be backed up by an in-game element. If you want to do an AIR DROP, use a Drop Ship with a Mobile CRU.

Having an NPC 'Drop Ship'to allow for sky spawning detracts from the Player-controlled aspect of the game that makes this a team game.

Reposting basically what I've said in my Sky SpawningGäó thread.

CRU spawns, since you're spawning in a Clone Reanimation unit, should work as they do now. Drop Uplinks, as a variant of wormhole tech, should work as they do now. MCC spawns involve a clone from the MCC being activated.

Ambush "random" spawns, and Skirmish objective spawns, and the Skirmish "default" spawn that's currently on the ground should all be changed to use an air-drop.

In addition to this spawn mechanic, the falling mechanics in the game need adjusting.

While a player is in free-fall - not just a normal fall from jumping, but when you've fallen far enough to take the free-fall position and trigger the prompt for your Inertia Dampener - you should have (limited) ability to adjust the direction of your fall. On activating your Inertia Dampener, you fall faster, but you light up and you lose the ability to control your descent. This makes you a harder target, but makes you more visible.

This will encourage players - while not under fire - to hold off on triggering their Inertia Dampener until the last second to avoid their blue glow giving them away. It will also encourage players who have been spotted and are actively being fired on to use the Dampener to speed up their descent and evade the incoming fire.

With Ambush spawns - adjusted as many people have requested so that enemy presence is more heavily weighted than friendlies - this would mean you're usually dropping into a less dangerous part of the map, and you have the ability to fine-tune your landing position based on the location of nearby enemies, who you'll see as you're falling. With Skirmish, you're dropping into an area your team already controls, so you SHOULD have someone handy to keep enemies off you, OR you should have reinforcements landing around the same time as you.

In my own personal vision, each objective would have an accompanying "built in" CRU that was NEAR the objective, but not directly on top of it. Some maps currently have this already for some objectives. Yes, it seems like a minor change, but the strategic implications would add quite a bit to the game, making the choice of "do we hack the objective or the CRU first" (and defenders would have to make similar choices) much more important.

It's a low-orbit drop from the Warbarge, directed towards a designated "safe zone" within the battle area. Designated in Skirmish by your team controlling the location, and in Ambush by the balance of your team's presence in the area vs. the presence of enemies.

Good enough lore-based reason for you? If not, I'm sure CCP can make a better one than I did.

I will still post against this idea. While the concept is great, and the possibilities are also great, the plain fact is, that we have the ability to do this now, using PLAYER input.

- You put a DROPSHIP in the sky with a CRU... when you die, you spawn in said Dropship... Pilot puts you where you need to be... you jump, and fall... (Sky Spawning).

It is all about teamwork as it stands, and this is how it should be.

Introducing any Non-Player aspect to replace a mechanic we have at the moment that is player controlled, is ludicrous, and pointless... I'd rather see Dropships buffed, given the ability to fly higher to better facilitate said sky spawns. The MCC is a 'sky spawn' in a safe zone (relatively speaking) as many have stated.

Sky Spawning without player interaction will lead to Camping Snipers 'drop spawning' to their points without any assistance to get there, leading further to the death of Dropship pilots. Who are already labouring under insufficient SP and reward for what is one of the best jobs, and most useful professions we have in the game at this time.

I will still post against this idea. While the concept is great, and the possibilities are also great, the plain fact is, that we have the ability to do this now, using PLAYER input.

- You put a DROPSHIP in the sky with a CRU... when you die, you spawn in said Dropship... Pilot puts you where you need to be... you jump, and fall... (Sky Spawning).

It is all about teamwork as it stands, and this is how it should be.

Introducing any Non-Player aspect to replace a mechanic we have at the moment that is player controlled, is ludicrous, and pointless... I'd rather see Dropships buffed, given the ability to fly higher to better facilitate said sky spawns. The MCC is a 'sky spawn' in a safe zone (relatively speaking) as many have stated.

Sky Spawning without player interaction will lead to Camping Snipers 'drop spawning' to their points without any assistance to get there, leading further to the death of Dropship pilots. Who are already labouring under insufficient SP and reward for what is one of the best jobs, and most useful professions we have in the game at this time.

> Does this mean we are just saying **** the only thing that dropships might be able to do?