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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2433
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Posted - 2013.04.10 03:48:00 -
[121] - Quote
The Black Jackal wrote:What limitation is there not to be able to drop into enemy territory? As above, there was mention that the Warbarge has viewpoint over the entire district and doesn't need to move to drop you, so why wouldn't you be able to drop into any location you wanted?
I'm not advocating the idea, but merely pointing out that if you want to be able to drop ONLY onto a specific point, determined by an illusory 'line' across the battlefield, there should be some mechanic to prevent you dropping into enemy territory.
As to the campers... there are a lot of 'behind the line' camping places... Some of these are at present inaccessible. The snipers running up the hills to their overwatch vantage points is about the only reprieve you ever get from them at the beginning of the battle, and if such a point was accessible via Drop spawn at the outset, it could be devastating to the force who 'hasn't got that vantage point or inclined snipers from the start. As I said in every post I've made so far about it, you'd only be able to drop into areas deemed "safe" - that meaning there's no enemy presence, or there's a secure position in your team's hands.
In Skirmish, you can drop on the NULL Cannons (or, as some have suggested, build CRUs into them to explain spawning on objectives), and in Ambush, when the spawn system is working properly, you'll be able to spawn in a relatively secure position on the battlefield - away from enemies, and preferentially near your teammates.
When they introduce player control to the Warbarge, this could possibly include the ability to actually direct where the orbital drop will be aimed, allowing a team's commander to reposition their spawn area as they see fit. At that point, a Corp with a commander on the Warbarge will have the option of spawning anywhere on the map, but it comes with the risk of the commander setting their team up to be spawn-camped and dropping them into hotzones without a fair chance. It will also require effective communication and team-level coordination for this to be a better option than leaving it in the hands of the AI.
And if you don't like things being out of the players' hands, are you against allowing us to use the same Warbarge to call in a Precision Strike? When working with EVE players in a Corp Battle, you can request a ship in space to fire, and you're relying on player interaction across games for their supporting fire to actually arrive. If you use the Precision Strike, the Warbarge just drops it immediately. When we have commanders on board the Warbarges, they'll be responsible for directing this fire, but until then it's NPC-controlled even thought it's player-directed. Just like the spawn system would be under my proposal.
Effectively, the current system - or any variant of it - has LESS player involvement. You're dropped into a fixed predetermined-by-code location, with no control over even the slightest details of where you're going to land. What I'm asking for is a system that gives players MORE freedom than we currently have. |
The Black Jackal
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
374
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Posted - 2013.04.10 11:37:00 -
[122] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:The Black Jackal wrote:What limitation is there not to be able to drop into enemy territory? As above, there was mention that the Warbarge has viewpoint over the entire district and doesn't need to move to drop you, so why wouldn't you be able to drop into any location you wanted?
I'm not advocating the idea, but merely pointing out that if you want to be able to drop ONLY onto a specific point, determined by an illusory 'line' across the battlefield, there should be some mechanic to prevent you dropping into enemy territory.
As to the campers... there are a lot of 'behind the line' camping places... Some of these are at present inaccessible. The snipers running up the hills to their overwatch vantage points is about the only reprieve you ever get from them at the beginning of the battle, and if such a point was accessible via Drop spawn at the outset, it could be devastating to the force who 'hasn't got that vantage point or inclined snipers from the start. As I said in every post I've made so far about it, you'd only be able to drop into areas deemed "safe" - that meaning there's no enemy presence, or there's a secure position in your team's hands. In Skirmish, you can drop on the NULL Cannons (or, as some have suggested, build CRUs into them to explain spawning on objectives), and in Ambush, when the spawn system is working properly, you'll be able to spawn in a relatively secure position on the battlefield - away from enemies, and preferentially near your teammates. When they introduce player control to the Warbarge, this could possibly include the ability to actually direct where the orbital drop will be aimed, allowing a team's commander to reposition their spawn area as they see fit. At that point, a Corp with a commander on the Warbarge will have the option of spawning anywhere on the map, but it comes with the risk of the commander setting their team up to be spawn-camped and dropping them into hotzones without a fair chance. It will also require effective communication and team-level coordination for this to be a better option than leaving it in the hands of the AI. And if you don't like things being out of the players' hands, are you against allowing us to use the same Warbarge to call in a Precision Strike? When working with EVE players in a Corp Battle, you can request a ship in space to fire, and you're relying on player interaction across games for their supporting fire to actually arrive. If you use the Precision Strike, the Warbarge just drops it immediately. When we have commanders on board the Warbarges, they'll be responsible for directing this fire, but until then it's NPC-controlled even thought it's player-directed. Just like the spawn system would be under my proposal. Effectively, the current system - or any variant of it - has LESS player involvement. You're dropped into a fixed predetermined-by-code location, with no control over even the slightest details of where you're going to land. What I'm asking for is a system that gives players MORE freedom than we currently have.
IF they introduce Player Control to the Warbarge, then YES, Orbital drops may be a viable platform. On your second point, I am indeed against the Warbarge Precision Strike. Why? Because it isn't player controlled (when it is, I'll withdraw my objecions to it). I've already pointed out one idea to give people the ability to deploy as 'drop pods' via the MCC as Carrier Ideas (Module that allows the MCC Commander to 'fire' loaded mercs into the air, to land in a rough (artillery-style) landing pattern where they aim. The MCC should be the source of the NPC 'Orbital' and provide an Angled Fire of a LAZED target area. So Line-Of-Sight is required to direct the assault.
Orbital Strikes, such as they are, should be limited to EVE-DUST Link to actually give it that distinct integration flavour.
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Mary Sedillo
XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S
3
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Posted - 2013.04.15 11:33:00 -
[123] - Quote
Even with the idea of "safe zone" dropping, you are really sticking it to one of the things drop ships do, which is drop units into combat. Something I and others have invested a good amount of skill points into so we don't just become aerial coffins. With the ability to spawn around you create more situations where we are used less. If you want to drop into the field, grab a mic and communicate with your pilot. Thanks! |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
78
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Posted - 2013.04.15 12:18:00 -
[124] - Quote
Yes, this should be included. Fire me from the warbarge in a drop pod and then let me control the final kilometer or three, guiding myself in until I activate my I-Damp. |
Krisuke 003
WildCard Ninja Clan
2
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Posted - 2013.04.15 23:53:00 -
[125] - Quote
How about lowflying ships that come in low and fast on a preset path (or one of several, if you prefer), dropping pods at one of several dedicated drop sites (no roof camping for you, champ). If you wanted a dust cloud in the low flying aircraft's wake that conveniently obscures a snipers sight if your pod for a second or two, sure. That way, players still get a way to choose where they want to spawn, while preventing roof campers and giving the feeling of being in some caddy Michael bay movie |
Brasidas Kriegen
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
2
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Posted - 2013.04.18 00:11:00 -
[126] - Quote
Krisuke 003 wrote:How about lowflying ships that come in low and fast on a preset path (or one of several, if you prefer), dropping pods at one of several dedicated drop sites (no roof camping for you, champ). If you wanted a dust cloud in the low flying aircraft's wake that conveniently obscures a snipers sight if your pod for a second or two, sure. That way, players still get a way to choose where they want to spawn, while preventing roof campers and giving the feeling of being in some caddy Michael bay movie
Any point that isn't a CRU (still needs fixing but different), drop uplink or MCC (which all have lore based reasons for existing such as wormholes and clone supplies) should be done via an RDV.
Skirmish - spawn time is 10 seconds? Pick your fit and then, instead of staring at a map with a clock on it, you could reduce the timer to say 3 seconds and have a 7 second animation where you are stuck in the RDV waiting to drop (will give you a window to cancel choice). The RDV is cloaked, so perhaps you should be cloaked for a certain period of time after the drop. If it takes 5 seconds to reach the ground from an RDV then make it a 3 second cloak.
Give players some limited mobility; perhaps something like a wingsuit? If it limits the movement so there is a certain radius you can land within it means that 3 second cloak gives you time to move toward a location and will mean snipers etc that are 'camping' a spawn have 2 seconds to hit you.
Players will now have visibility before they are being shot at a spawn point, but aren't able to shoot anyone before they can be shot either; gives you time to prepare even if you are hopelessly outnumbered at the drop point. In a game where every life can have actual consequences (i.e. loss of isk/aur) being killed before you have control/awareness is immensely frustrating. |
SickJ
French unchained corporation Squale Operation Empire
56
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Posted - 2013.04.18 21:51:00 -
[127] - Quote
Brasidas Kriegen wrote:Krisuke 003 wrote:How about lowflying ships that come in low and fast on a preset path (or one of several, if you prefer), dropping pods at one of several dedicated drop sites (no roof camping for you, champ). If you wanted a dust cloud in the low flying aircraft's wake that conveniently obscures a snipers sight if your pod for a second or two, sure. That way, players still get a way to choose where they want to spawn, while preventing roof campers and giving the feeling of being in some caddy Michael bay movie Any point that isn't a CRU (still needs fixing but different), drop uplink or MCC (which all have lore based reasons for existing such as wormholes and clone supplies) should be done via an RDV. Skirmish - spawn time is 10 seconds? Pick your fit and then, instead of staring at a map with a clock on it, you could reduce the timer to say 3 seconds and have a 7 second animation where you are stuck in the RDV waiting to drop (will give you a window to cancel choice). The RDV is cloaked, so perhaps you should be cloaked for a certain period of time after the drop. If it takes 5 seconds to reach the ground from an RDV then make it a 3 second cloak. Give players some limited mobility; perhaps something like a wingsuit? If it limits the movement so there is a certain radius you can land within it means that 3 second cloak gives you time to move toward a location and will mean snipers etc that are 'camping' a spawn have 2 seconds to hit you. Players will now have visibility before they are being shot at a spawn point, but aren't able to shoot anyone before they can be shot either; gives you time to prepare even if you are hopelessly outnumbered at the drop point. In a game where every life can have actual consequences (i.e. loss of isk/aur) being killed before you have control/awareness is immensely frustrating.
Spawncamping would be replaced by forgegunners shooting down RDVs. I'm gonna call that a win, based on the cool factor. |
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