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The Black Jackal
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
316
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Posted - 2013.03.30 11:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
Mary Sedillo wrote:I've seen and experienced Orbital Drops in Starhawk and it led to a lot of camping. The drop gave away positions like no-one's business and the Starhawk mech would swoop in and either bomb the mess out of you or wait for you to emerge. Take this in Ambush and you will see the opposing side knowing exactly where to camp if there is a limited area, or watch as the map descends into utter chaos as people are dropping everywhere. It really isn't a great idea. Also, it detracts from DROPSHIPS with mCRUs, which are meant for people to spawn on and to drop from. Anyways, just my 2 cents and experience on this subject.
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The Black Jackal
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
316
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Posted - 2013.03.30 14:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Reposting basically what I've said in my Sky SpawningGäó thread.
CRU spawns, since you're spawning in a Clone Reanimation unit, should work as they do now. Drop Uplinks, as a variant of wormhole tech, should work as they do now. MCC spawns involve a clone from the MCC being activated.
Ambush "random" spawns, and Skirmish objective spawns, and the Skirmish "default" spawn that's currently on the ground should all be changed to use an air-drop.
In addition to this spawn mechanic, the falling mechanics in the game need adjusting.
While a player is in free-fall - not just a normal fall from jumping, but when you've fallen far enough to take the free-fall position and trigger the prompt for your Inertia Dampener - you should have (limited) ability to adjust the direction of your fall. On activating your Inertia Dampener, you fall faster, but you light up and you lose the ability to control your descent. This makes you a harder target, but makes you more visible.
This will encourage players - while not under fire - to hold off on triggering their Inertia Dampener until the last second to avoid their blue glow giving them away. It will also encourage players who have been spotted and are actively being fired on to use the Dampener to speed up their descent and evade the incoming fire.
With Ambush spawns - adjusted as many people have requested so that enemy presence is more heavily weighted than friendlies - this would mean you're usually dropping into a less dangerous part of the map, and you have the ability to fine-tune your landing position based on the location of nearby enemies, who you'll see as you're falling. With Skirmish, you're dropping into an area your team already controls, so you SHOULD have someone handy to keep enemies off you, OR you should have reinforcements landing around the same time as you.
This mechanic should never be introduced UNLESS you put in an NPC 'Spawn Point' in the sky. At the moment, EVERYTHING should be backed up by an in-game element. If you want to do an AIR DROP, use a Drop Ship with a Mobile CRU.
Having an NPC 'Drop Ship'to allow for sky spawning detracts from the Player-controlled aspect of the game that makes this a team game. |
The Black Jackal
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
321
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Posted - 2013.03.31 02:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:The Black Jackal wrote:This mechanic should never be introduced UNLESS you put in an NPC 'Spawn Point' in the sky. At the moment, EVERYTHING should be backed up by an in-game element. If you want to do an AIR DROP, use a Drop Ship with a Mobile CRU.
Having an NPC 'Drop Ship'to allow for sky spawning detracts from the Player-controlled aspect of the game that makes this a team game. It's a low-orbit drop from the Warbarge, directed towards a designated "safe zone" within the battle area. Designated in Skirmish by your team controlling the location, and in Ambush by the balance of your team's presence in the area vs. the presence of enemies. Good enough lore-based reason for you? If not, I'm sure CCP can make a better one than I did.
This idea still take away from the Player-controlled aspect. No matter how you look at it, unless the warbarge can be directly controlled by a player, it is still NPC influence.
Perhaps, when the MCC comes under our command and is capable of traversing the battlefield, we'll get the sky-drop style of battlefield entry under it, but until that time, players should be required to do it manually via Dropships equipped with Mobile CRUs |
The Black Jackal
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
322
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Posted - 2013.03.31 10:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
I will still post against this idea. While the concept is great, and the possibilities are also great, the plain fact is, that we have the ability to do this now, using PLAYER input.
- You put a DROPSHIP in the sky with a CRU... when you die, you spawn in said Dropship... Pilot puts you where you need to be... you jump, and fall... (Sky Spawning).
It is all about teamwork as it stands, and this is how it should be.
Introducing any Non-Player aspect to replace a mechanic we have at the moment that is player controlled, is ludicrous, and pointless... I'd rather see Dropships buffed, given the ability to fly higher to better facilitate said sky spawns. The MCC is a 'sky spawn' in a safe zone (relatively speaking) as many have stated.
Sky Spawning without player interaction will lead to Camping Snipers 'drop spawning' to their points without any assistance to get there, leading further to the death of Dropship pilots. Who are already labouring under insufficient SP and reward for what is one of the best jobs, and most useful professions we have in the game at this time. |
The Black Jackal
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
331
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Posted - 2013.04.01 14:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
What limitation is there not to be able to drop into enemy territory? As above, there was mention that the Warbarge has viewpoint over the entire district and doesn't need to move to drop you, so why wouldn't you be able to drop into any location you wanted?
I'm not advocating the idea, but merely pointing out that if you want to be able to drop ONLY onto a specific point, determined by an illusory 'line' across the battlefield, there should be some mechanic to prevent you dropping into enemy territory.
As to the campers... there are a lot of 'behind the line' camping places... Some of these are at present inaccessible. The snipers running up the hills to their overwatch vantage points is about the only reprieve you ever get from them at the beginning of the battle, and if such a point was accessible via Drop spawn at the outset, it could be devastating to the force who 'hasn't got that vantage point or inclined snipers from the start.
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The Black Jackal
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
374
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Posted - 2013.04.10 11:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:The Black Jackal wrote:What limitation is there not to be able to drop into enemy territory? As above, there was mention that the Warbarge has viewpoint over the entire district and doesn't need to move to drop you, so why wouldn't you be able to drop into any location you wanted?
I'm not advocating the idea, but merely pointing out that if you want to be able to drop ONLY onto a specific point, determined by an illusory 'line' across the battlefield, there should be some mechanic to prevent you dropping into enemy territory.
As to the campers... there are a lot of 'behind the line' camping places... Some of these are at present inaccessible. The snipers running up the hills to their overwatch vantage points is about the only reprieve you ever get from them at the beginning of the battle, and if such a point was accessible via Drop spawn at the outset, it could be devastating to the force who 'hasn't got that vantage point or inclined snipers from the start. As I said in every post I've made so far about it, you'd only be able to drop into areas deemed "safe" - that meaning there's no enemy presence, or there's a secure position in your team's hands. In Skirmish, you can drop on the NULL Cannons (or, as some have suggested, build CRUs into them to explain spawning on objectives), and in Ambush, when the spawn system is working properly, you'll be able to spawn in a relatively secure position on the battlefield - away from enemies, and preferentially near your teammates. When they introduce player control to the Warbarge, this could possibly include the ability to actually direct where the orbital drop will be aimed, allowing a team's commander to reposition their spawn area as they see fit. At that point, a Corp with a commander on the Warbarge will have the option of spawning anywhere on the map, but it comes with the risk of the commander setting their team up to be spawn-camped and dropping them into hotzones without a fair chance. It will also require effective communication and team-level coordination for this to be a better option than leaving it in the hands of the AI. And if you don't like things being out of the players' hands, are you against allowing us to use the same Warbarge to call in a Precision Strike? When working with EVE players in a Corp Battle, you can request a ship in space to fire, and you're relying on player interaction across games for their supporting fire to actually arrive. If you use the Precision Strike, the Warbarge just drops it immediately. When we have commanders on board the Warbarges, they'll be responsible for directing this fire, but until then it's NPC-controlled even thought it's player-directed. Just like the spawn system would be under my proposal. Effectively, the current system - or any variant of it - has LESS player involvement. You're dropped into a fixed predetermined-by-code location, with no control over even the slightest details of where you're going to land. What I'm asking for is a system that gives players MORE freedom than we currently have.
IF they introduce Player Control to the Warbarge, then YES, Orbital drops may be a viable platform. On your second point, I am indeed against the Warbarge Precision Strike. Why? Because it isn't player controlled (when it is, I'll withdraw my objecions to it). I've already pointed out one idea to give people the ability to deploy as 'drop pods' via the MCC as Carrier Ideas (Module that allows the MCC Commander to 'fire' loaded mercs into the air, to land in a rough (artillery-style) landing pattern where they aim. The MCC should be the source of the NPC 'Orbital' and provide an Angled Fire of a LAZED target area. So Line-Of-Sight is required to direct the assault.
Orbital Strikes, such as they are, should be limited to EVE-DUST Link to actually give it that distinct integration flavour.
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