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Tiluvo
Digital Mercs
25
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Posted - 2013.03.09 23:16:00 -
[31] - Quote
Tiel Syysch wrote:Cons:
- Doesn't stop spawn camping if I can watch you fall. Whether you're stuck in inertia dampener recovery or inside a drop pod, doesn't stop me from shooting you or positioning myself and having my crosshair on you before you're able to fight back.
- Allows even more nonsense of people on roofs, especially on buildings without ladders. I don't expect people to use it to get to the safest spot, rather to get to the dumbest spot they can possibly reach that would otherwise be inaccessible.
I do not like this idea, because I can't think of any pros that could outweigh the above.
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Avinash Decker
BetaMax.
29
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Posted - 2013.03.09 23:25:00 -
[32] - Quote
HowDidThatTaste wrote:I always pictured this as why we wear "drop suits" sky spawning should be included for sure.
Ideally you can controlled your descent to some degree but the default fall zone is in the general direction of your squad leader if he has not set up a hot zone. Otherwise he can set up a drop zone that is static like rally points, or onto a certain soldier to help that merc with his current assignment. This is something that would help with squad involvement and team play.
Some limitations would be that you can't be shot until a certain height before hitting the ground, but at that same vulnerable stage you can start firing your weapon as well. So say the last 2 seconds or something you can be shot but you can also fire back.
The only problem I see with it is landing on buildings and high places becoming a total sniper debacle.
You can spawn right behind them or right on top of them aswell , it goes both ways .
Anyway , I dont think it matters if you can see him or not if the person is spawn dozens of meters away from you by the time you see him/her then get to the area, he/she will be somewhere else or waiting to ambush you. They can either change the recovery time or do something like this |
Tiel Syysch
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
661
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Posted - 2013.03.09 23:34:00 -
[33] - Quote
Kiso Okami wrote: One such thing could be drop pods giving you extended shields while you are in range of it to give you a chance of clearing anyone trying to camp you off. Would be like having a super charged shield for like 10 seconds that boosts you to have Heavy grade defenses even with militia gear for that given time.
That's honestly a terrible idea. Why should you be stronger than me just because you spawned? What's to stop you from staying close just because it gives you that shield boost and picking people off from there? Bad spawns are a two-way street - spawn camping sucks, but having someone spawn on top of you also sucks, and making one of the people stronger is a bad thing to do.
Tiluvo wrote: - Have MCC commanders preselect the DZ's for their team. Delay spawning until four mercs select the same DZ or a time limit is reached. Ta-da, instant back-up if the DZ is hot.
We don't even have the commander role yet. Also, we don't have MCCs in ambush. Are we going to have commander mode in pubs (thought it was supposed to be only in like the conquest mode or whatever, which should be in corp play)? |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
3059
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Posted - 2013.03.09 23:38:00 -
[34] - Quote
I have to agree about building camping being an issue. However as for getting killed if you dropped poorly, its entirely just as much your fault for picking such obvious place. There have been plenty of times people dropping tanks and lavs without getting shot on a platform that screams 'shoot me' on the way down more than anything. |
Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
314
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Posted - 2013.03.09 23:43:00 -
[35] - Quote
What to prevent ppl from drop spawning on each other?
If you prevent that whats to prevent me from drop spawning on top of the highest perch on Manus peak or one that really tall tower above C and park a railgun tank and snipe?
Gimmick spawns lead to gimmick exploits so?
Not saying not a good idea just saying think it through before ya'll get fanboi happy about a dev sharing an idea with the IRC community |
Avinash Decker
BetaMax.
29
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Posted - 2013.03.09 23:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I have to agree about building camping being an issue. However as for getting killed if you dropped poorly, its entirely just as much your fault for picking such obvious place. There have been plenty of times people dropping tanks and lavs without getting shot on a platform that screams 'shoot me' on the way down more than anything.
they might have to redesign the buildings( I think they are anyway as explained in a weekly update) to make them more accessible to get on their roofs , then just crappy ladders( which a lot of fps games got rid of in the first place ) |
Tiluvo
Digital Mercs
25
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Posted - 2013.03.09 23:44:00 -
[37] - Quote
Tiel Syysch wrote:
We don't even have the commander role yet. Also, we don't have MCCs in ambush. Are we going to have commander mode in pubs (thought it was supposed to be only in like the conquest mode or whatever, which should be in corp play)?
It's an idea for the future. I doubt we'll see any changes for a month or two anyways. But it would help define the commander role if you could place your team's spawn points. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
3059
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Posted - 2013.03.09 23:47:00 -
[38] - Quote
Syycsch also has a good point, what are the conditions for a drop in oh say null as we can conviently blame all the drops on in high sec on the warbarge. |
Tiel Syysch
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
661
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Posted - 2013.03.09 23:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
Tiluvo wrote: Pros: - Looks really cool.
- Makes uplinks more useful for defending cannons if you can't just spawn on the objective.
Not sure how this inherently makes uplinks more useful, or what spawning by dropping in from the sky has anything to do with your ability to spawn at objectives - the two aren't mutually exclusive.
- Reduces clustering on ambush maps and allows for easier flanking maneuvers.
The old spawn system did as well. This isn't something only sky spawning can give us.
- Gives CCP more skills for us to sink points into.
Why do I need to spend SP on spawning?
- Easier to escape being red-lined. Just drop with some buddies behind the lines and plant an uplink.
This should never be possible. Sky spawning should never allow you to drop behind defenses or controlled territory if you don't already have an uplink or CRU there.
- Still looks really cool.
- Reduces spawn sniping because of a lack of predefined points to aim at.
More spawn points would fix this. It's not something limited to only dropping in from the sky. In fact, snipers would probably be the ones to more easily see people falling down than be able to guess when someone is going to just materialize on the ground.
- Won't get shotgunned in the back by a scout who silently spawned behind you while you were hacking.
The silent part is the only thing this would fix, assuming dropping in would have accompanying audio. This is more a problem with being able to spawn at objectives rather than how they spawn.
So... not sure how your pros suggest anything that isn't accomplished by the old or current systems, other than "it looks cool." Something looking cool doesn't outweigh the headache that it'll cause with people on every roof and building. However you restrict it, people are still going to find ways around it and get somewhere you didn't want them to get to, unless you're overly restricted and end up with specific, knowable spawn points that we have now. |
Dalton Smithe
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
59
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Posted - 2013.03.09 23:54:00 -
[40] - Quote
I think the whole orbital drop would be a good idea....more along the line of what they show in the immortal clones video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIwekfp3p5Q
around 1:38
This is what I was looking forward too. They might implement it, but they might not....either way, this is still an awesome game with a great amount of potential... |
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Reimus Klinsman
BetaMax.
326
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Posted - 2013.03.09 23:57:00 -
[41] - Quote
Orbital spawns will make the game far more visually pleasing. There are two problems however.. One is that it could be VERY easy to spawn strategically behind enemy lines which would make the game reward you less for upholding a battle front. And two is that landing is SO slow. A skill could be implemented to reduce recovery time. A third hidden issue is that inertia dampener lasts 15 seconds.
Overall, I'd really want this to happen but issue number one should be resolved. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
3059
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Posted - 2013.03.09 23:57:00 -
[42] - Quote
I would also Like to see the OD having a bit of delay from insert to action vs the drop uplink. |
J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
650
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Posted - 2013.03.10 00:02:00 -
[43] - Quote
I think that orbital drops shouldn't just come in straight down at a 90 degree angle to the ground. It would be much cooler if you came streaking in at a more shallow angle of depression, say, 45 degrees, so potentially you would have terrain blocking your way such as a mountain. It would look much cooler to have a meteorite hurtling in than a box of junk falling perpendicular to the ground like installations do. Plus, it would give a better sense of speed to the player than to just focus on the ground...
I just hope CCP comes up with a twist on the whole orbital drop pods idea, its kind of stale and needs more innovation... |
Telcontar Dunedain
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
360
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Posted - 2013.03.10 00:04:00 -
[44] - Quote
This would be sweet visually and fun.
However it would lead to bad gameplay.
Every map we have would be subject to rooftop camping.
Without control over the descent it would lead to people being shot out of the air as they come down.
This won't fix the problem with spawns it will just add more problems. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
3059
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Posted - 2013.03.10 00:09:00 -
[45] - Quote
Angle shots would be a very good solution. |
Raze Minhaven
Caffeine Commodities Company
1
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Posted - 2013.03.10 00:14:00 -
[46] - Quote
Honestly if you are going OD for all spawns then you will need some sort of orbital counter, which could be provided by eve-ships. The vidoes I have seen and all the lore I have read dont really mention dropping from orbit or low orbit, its always been from atmo well below the space faring ships. This is where the MCC comes in for skirmish and i really dont think anything is wrong with the skirmish spawn methods EXCEPT null cannons dont have built in drop uplinks, the command bunkers do but you would need to spawn inside the command bunkers to be true to lore. Maye thats being too petty tho!
As far as ambush goes there really should be MCC spawn only unless a droplink/mcu is in play. The area around the MCC should be guarded within a small proximity (what kind of drop ship like that does not have guns seriously?) I guess there could be spanw waves where a dropship comes in and ejects soldiers over an area like in the immortal clones video but you would have to give the ability for AV to shoot it down, maybe make them player pilotable if you want to get to a specific area or npc controlled but drops you behind you? The only other option I would see is a few unconquerable "bunkers" but Im unsure how that would work too other than like in TF2.
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Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
3059
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Posted - 2013.03.10 01:07:00 -
[47] - Quote
Raze Minhaven wrote:Honestly if you are going OD for all spawns then you will need some sort of orbital counter, which could be provided by eve-ships. The vidoes I have seen and all the lore I have read dont really mention dropping from orbit or low orbit, its always been from atmo well below the space faring ships. This is where the MCC comes in for skirmish and i really dont think anything is wrong with the skirmish spawn methods EXCEPT null cannons dont have built in drop uplinks, the command bunkers do but you would need to spawn inside the command bunkers to be true to lore. Maye thats being too petty tho!
As far as ambush goes there really should be MCC spawn only unless a droplink/mcu is in play. The area around the MCC should be guarded within a small proximity (what kind of drop ship like that does not have guns seriously?) I guess there could be spanw waves where a dropship comes in and ejects soldiers over an area like in the immortal clones video but you would have to give the ability for AV to shoot it down, maybe make them player pilotable (control over drop trajectory sort of not liek dropship flying now) if you want to get to a specific area or npc controlled but drops you behind you? The only other option I would see is a few unconquerable "bunkers" but Im unsure how that would work too other than like in TF2.
There was no indication it if was going to be a replacement or an additional option. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
3066
|
Posted - 2013.03.10 15:52:00 -
[48] - Quote
Bumping for today's audience, updated the OP to try to make it a bit more free from indication. |
Val'herik Dorn
CrimeWave Syndicate
321
|
Posted - 2013.03.10 16:21:00 -
[49] - Quote
In skirmish defenders should start with all the points as ya inow they ae defending their land.
Attackers should then be orbittally inserted en mass for their first spawn near set objectives.
This could be an advantage for the attackers but who in their right mind flys their giant command ship into a battle before they havto.
So at the start of a match the defenders spawn in then suddenly the attackers start raining in like tiny fiery balls of death. Just as the attacking mcc does some kind of low orbital warp in.
I believe this ciuld be an awesome addition to skirmish.
For ambush I have no idea I dont play it enough |
Swufy
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
73
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Posted - 2013.03.10 17:12:00 -
[50] - Quote
Too busy to read all 3 pages, so in case it hasn't been said yet: This system would be awesome as long as it doesn't involve snipers landing on top of ridiculously high structures. Like the light towers on the Plateau map. You can put weapons on the top of the MCCs to give a controlled airspace, thus preventing the enemy from dropping into your redzone. Also, as you control more points on the map, the available drops could be seen as a highlighted area on the tacmap.
There has to be some structured way of where you can spawn and why. I don't want to start a skirmish and both teams decided to drop 3-4 people at each objective right off the bat because the ones with the faster loading times will land first and win while the other team is recovering from dropping in.
Having a radius of where you could possible land would be a good idea because then people can't drop in between specific boxes to avoid all fire. That way there's more strategic and less Rambo styled drops.
I wonder if Heavies can land without dying like they do from jumping out of the MCC? XD |
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Sobriety Denied
Universal Allies Inc.
480
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Posted - 2013.03.10 17:29:00 -
[51] - Quote
it's not like the drop pod has to by pass the current system, you would still be spawning in there like normal except now it's replaced by the animation of a drop pod, meaning in ambush you would still not have total control of where you spawn or else it would be kinda stupid and no more need for droplinks if you can just point at the exact spot you want to drop in at. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1928
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Posted - 2013.03.10 17:40:00 -
[52] - Quote
This explains my opinion on the topic pretty well, I think. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3069
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Posted - 2013.03.11 05:32:00 -
[53] - Quote
Bumping for the monday masses. Feel free to add your own thoughts. Don't be afraid to restate what others had said either.
Updated the OP again. |
TheBLAZZED
VENGEANCE FOR HIRE
85
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 06:34:00 -
[54] - Quote
It would have to have significant drawbacks to it. Ie: longer spawn times and inaccurate drops ( something like a random location within a 100m radius from your selection) otherwise drop uplinks would be pointless along with crus. |
Kas Croixe
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
15
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Posted - 2013.03.11 06:48:00 -
[55] - Quote
I'm all for it as long as I get control of the inertia dampener's deployment. too bright, makes for a good target, activate it right before impact to take no damage, not give away your position, and it looks way more badass to simply free fall and then slam the ground at the last second. looks like you just outright punched a planet to stop yourself. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1935
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 06:51:00 -
[56] - Quote
TheBLAZZED wrote:It would have to have significant drawbacks to it. Ie: longer spawn times and inaccurate drops ( something like a random location within a 100m radius from your selection) otherwise drop uplinks would be pointless along with crus. In my thread (linked in my previous post), everyone was arguing that it would be too WEAK, not too powerful.
Got a lot of support in there as well. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3139
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 06:53:00 -
[57] - Quote
YES!
There is the problem of drop time adding to the time it takes to spawn. Solution is to remove respawn time, and just use the time it takes to land as a natural respawn timer. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1936
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Posted - 2013.03.11 06:58:00 -
[58] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:YES!
There is the problem of drop time adding to the time it takes to spawn. Solution is to remove respawn time, and just use the time it takes to land as a natural respawn timer. Or spawn you about a 3 second drop from the ground? Then cut all spawn times by 3 seconds.
Ambush? No spawn timer. Skirmish? 7 second max, dropping down to a minimum of 0 if you wait for a revive. CRU and Uplink spawns? As they are now. |
TheBLAZZED
VENGEANCE FOR HIRE
85
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Posted - 2013.03.11 07:01:00 -
[59] - Quote
I just don't drop links to become obsolete |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3072
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Posted - 2013.03.11 13:22:00 -
[60] - Quote
Maybe if you can have an installation (AO guns?) that prevented them from dropping into objective zone's they're not supposed to be at yet. If you see one flipping then you know what is going up or what is about to come down giving you some time to prepare for it.
I also think it could possibly be tied into the war point wallet system. Every time you use this optional spawn it eats up war points (after all you're using the warbarge to pod you out into the atmosphere)
Now... has anyone thought of the conditions to be able to orbit-ally drop? I think at most it requires either a space elevator or a friendly war-barge in orbit.
I do like the idea of angled shots (like 30*) onto the field to prevent highly accurate drops and requiring a decent 'landing' strip. |
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