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DEV Topic/Discussion: Orbital Drop Spawns

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Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 3055	Posted - 2013.03.09 21:24:00 - [1] - Quote Well CCP Nullarbor who is supposed to be on vacation dropped into IRC and asked us what we'd thought about orbital drops/spawns. He also affirmed that the dev blog out this next Thursday is his, CCP Nullarbor was working on the Faction Warfare system and how its all going to work. So I am extended this subject to you folks on the forums. Argue among yourselves on why its a cool/bad idea, modes, cons, pros, how, when, much... those sort of things. Ill bring in what the IRC said so far about it in a later post and then point this thread to CCP Nullarbor when he gets back from wherever he disappeared today.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 484	Posted - 2013.03.09 21:30:00 - [2] - Quote Yes, when there's no CRU, the spawns should always be from orbit... The current state where people just appear is as immersion-breaking as fedo farm with pink elephants.
Steve Renuken BetaMax. 28	Posted - 2013.03.09 21:32:00 - [3] - Quote Last one down's a rotten egg! Yes. Yes I want insertion from high up. Even if it's not from Orbit (as that would take ages.) Cloaky bombers FTW.
Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1077	Posted - 2013.03.09 21:35:00 - [4] - Quote Would be nice. Do you mean as in Drop Uplinks, or onto Objectives? Also, I'll leave this here. This game was pretty great, but unfortunately didn't live up to expectations. Drop Podding was badass though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRXXZDb97GU
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 3056	Posted - 2013.03.09 21:42:00 - [5] - Quote Added another entertainment, will be adding reference links.
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 317	Posted - 2013.03.09 21:45:00 - [6] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Well CCP Nullarbor who is supposed to be on weekend leave dropped into IRC and asked us what we'd thought about orbital drops/spawns. Im not sure what your referring to. Do you mean that we can literally drop from the sky? If so... AWESOME
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 3056	Posted - 2013.03.09 21:54:00 - [7] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: Yes, when there's no CRU, the spawns should always be from orbit... The current state where people just appear is as immersion-breaking as fedo farm with pink elephants. Not as lore breaking as you think if you played that one lvl 4 caldari mission involving a wormhole experiment gone wrong. (which is where the drop uplink tech did comefrom)
Kiso Okami Militaires Sans Jeux 24	Posted - 2013.03.09 21:55:00 - [8] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: Yes, when there's no CRU, the spawns should always be from orbit... The current state where people just appear is as immersion-breaking as fedo farm with pink elephants. Well, tactical Drop Up-Links are lore-backed. They are wormhole tech. But yeah, pretty much anything else that's not the MCC or a CRU should be a HALO drop.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 3056	Posted - 2013.03.09 21:56:00 - [9] - Quote iceyburnz wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Well CCP Nullarbor who is supposed to be on weekend leave dropped into IRC and asked us what we'd thought about orbital drops/spawns. Im not sure what your referring to. Do you mean that we can literally drop from the sky? If so... AWESOME Yes that's what he meant. but he asked us for our thoughts, he didn't say anything about what ccp is doing with it. So if you have your ideas on how to do it and not cause so much problems spill the beans.
Avinash Decker BetaMax. 29	Posted - 2013.03.09 21:57:00 - [10] - Quote I found some videos that does it from gameplay or cinematic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYrm8nR-1bU , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N5x280oHyA ,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTvR90JqHNs , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiaQ1IPZR18 ( skip to 2 :16 )

Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 3056	Posted - 2013.03.09 21:57:00 - [11] - Quote Kiso Okami wrote: Rasatsu wrote: Yes, when there's no CRU, the spawns should always be from orbit... The current state where people just appear is as immersion-breaking as fedo farm with pink elephants. Well, tactical Drop Up-Links are lore-backed. They are wormhole tech. But yeah, pretty much anything else that's not the MCC or a CRU should be a HALO drop. Would HALO be an appropriate term? I mean our suits have 0 atmo endurance of a few hours and capable of going on planets with no breathables.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 32	Posted - 2013.03.09 21:57:00 - [12] - Quote I'm on the fence about this. Yes, awesome, yes, useful, but also yes, takes away from the rest of the game. One big issue with Dust right now is that it's very difficult to maintain map ownership. This is mostly because the map design isn't as awesome as it could be. Being able to spawn anywhere on the map sounds like it'd decrease map ownership by a lot and those worsen this aspect of the game.
Monkxx Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 26	Posted - 2013.03.09 22:00:00 - [13] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Well CCP Nullarbor who is supposed to be on weekend leave dropped into IRC and asked us what we'd thought about orbital drops/spawns. He also affirmed that the dev blog out this next Thursday is his, CCP Nullarbor was working on the Faction Warfare system and how its all going to work. So I am extended this subject to you folks on the forums. Argue among yourselves on why its a cool/bad idea, modes, cons, pros, how, when, much... those sort of things. Ill bring in what the IRC said so far about it in a later post and then point this thread to CCP Nullarbor when he gets back from wherever he disappeared today. Also for your entertainment though http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3W5lhUAy6hY. and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCsfHVM5x_I The proper question is "Why isn't it in game already?". Section8 is a great game but dead...I think, the fact that bots were smarter than players killed the game :(
Avinash Decker BetaMax. 29	Posted - 2013.03.09 22:02:00 - [14] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: I'm on the fence about this. Yes, awesome, yes, useful, but also yes, takes away from the rest of the game. One big issue with Dust right now is that it's very difficult to maintain map ownership. This is mostly because the map design isn't as awesome as it could be. Being able to spawn anywhere on the map sounds like it'd decrease map ownership by a lot and those worsen this aspect of the game. They can add an equipment that covers a certain radius that prevents any enemy players from spawning there.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 3056	Posted - 2013.03.09 22:05:00 - [15] - Quote As for my personal opinion. I would like to see orbital drops done via drop pod but also has its own timer. In some game modes its free choice of where to drop, in others restricted to controlled s zones. Maybe even restrict them on some planets (IE gas planets) Buildings will have wave off emitters to prevent landing on top of their roofs, if a pod hits an angle it will bounce off until it hits ground. I am also for an equipment module that enables en mass spawning unlike current up-links. Drop Uplinks will still be in as a covert option since dropping from orbit sort of give's your position away. Pods should do damage on anything they land on and if they don't land flat hurt the occupant. Cool for first spawn ins Useful for future assets.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion 239	Posted - 2013.03.09 22:06:00 - [16] - Quote Add cloaking to vehicles and raise the flight ceiling, and dropships can perform this task for you.
charlesnette dalari Creative Killers 167	Posted - 2013.03.09 22:20:00 - [17] - Quote This mechanic would completely solve the current dislike people are expressing over the existing spawn system since they then could only blame themselves for bad spawns. You could also make it so when the player picks where to spawn in that they don't get the exact point but rather randomly within a certain radius that they select from the map screen. You could even have a skill tied to the accuracy of the insertion point that gives a smaller radius making your spawn point more accurate the higher the skill or even tie that to a module you must equip. This would allow players to pick the general spawn area but keep it from becoming too powerful a tactic. One other idea would be to make each orbital spawn show up on a players radar so it would not be as easy to ninja drop behind an enemy. I think the mechanic we have now where it takes half a second or so to stand up from using the inertia dampener should possibly be lengthened for these orbital drop spawns to further keep it fair. Love the idea and think it could add a whole new dynamic to the game especially if you tie how accurate the drop location is to a skill or module.
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 317	Posted - 2013.03.09 22:20:00 - [18] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: but he asked us for our thoughts, he didn't say anything about what ccp is doing with it. So if you have your ideas on how to do it and not cause so much problems spill the beans. Rather than just allow people to drop willy nilly. Perhaps they could tie it to drop uplinks creates a zone around it that is a viable drop point? I sort of see the interface like this being like the orbital strike UI on the map screen. You have target curso to selct the zone you want to drop, only areas crosshatched with green though. These would include areas were we would tradiotnally spawn, and drop uplinks and control areas around capture points for null cannons. To be honest I'd just be happy when they remove the weird "phase in" effect. Which is great for game but is increadably immersion breaking and very last decade. Evan planetside had you spawn in "spawn tubes".
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1647	Posted - 2013.03.09 22:22:00 - [19] - Quote I think it's good to have an orbital drop spawn option in addition to the uplinks. Also, I realized that the regular spawn system is a bit disorienting but the dropping from the sky from the MCC felt better.
charlesnette dalari Creative Killers 167	Posted - 2013.03.09 22:28:00 - [20] - Quote Another idea on this mechanic would be an equipment module that could be deployed that would prevent orbital drop spawn in a certain radius of where it is deployed so you can prevent an enemy from spawning in certain strategic locations you choose and/or make it so an enemy can't orbital drop within a certain distance of the enemy mcc. There are so many ways to make this fair to the opposing team while still solving all of the bad spawn issues we have now and still fits the game perfectly. It also doesn't hurt that it would just be cool as hell.

Paran Tadec Imperfects Negative-Feedback 916	Posted - 2013.03.09 22:30:00 - [21] - Quote finally.
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 314	Posted - 2013.03.09 22:36:00 - [22] - Quote If orbital spawning woks anything like dropping out of the MCC with inertial dampeners then it will be utter fail as snipers will eat them alive. They need the ability to instantly move after landing or a bit of shocwave generation that obscures the player drop or gives a 1-2s invincibility thought that has obvious issues.
Tiel Syysch Imperfects Negative-Feedback 661	Posted - 2013.03.09 22:44:00 - [23] - Quote Cons: - Doesn't stop spawn camping if I can watch you fall. Whether you're stuck in inertia dampener recovery or inside a drop pod, doesn't stop me from shooting you or positioning myself and having my crosshair on you before you're able to fight back. - Allows even more nonsense of people on roofs, especially on buildings without ladders. I don't expect people to use it to get to the safest spot, rather to get to the dumbest spot they can possibly reach that would otherwise be inaccessible. I do not like this idea, because I can't think of any pros that could outweigh the above.
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 317	Posted - 2013.03.09 22:52:00 - [24] - Quote Gunner Nightingale wrote: If orbital spawning woks anything like dropping out of the MCC with inertial dampeners then it will be utter fail as snipers will eat them alive. They need the ability to instantly move after landing or a bit of shocwave generation that obscures the player drop or gives a 1-2s invincibility thought that has obvious issues. Its harder to be sniped free falling. Protip: ID at the last possible second.
XXfootnoteXX DUST University Ivy League 97	Posted - 2013.03.09 22:57:00 - [25] - Quote Tiel Syysch wrote: - Doesn't stop spawn camping if I can watch you fall. Whether you're stuck in inertia dampener recovery or inside a drop pod, doesn't stop me from shooting you or positioning myself and having my crosshair on you before you're able to fight back. The best way to fix this is to take away the graphics that show the wind braking around the dropsuit. People will still be able to see falling body's but it wont be as in your face. It will requre more stratigic placment of uplinks. Tiel Syysch wrote: - Allows even more nonsense of people on roofs, especially on buildings without ladders. I don't expect people to use it to get to the safest spot, rather to get to the dumbest spot they can possibly reach that would otherwise be inaccessible. They should be limited to only falling within an area around the droplinks, not falling where ever they want. Granted there would still be easy ways to exploit this.
Kiso Okami Militaires Sans Jeux 24	Posted - 2013.03.09 23:02:00 - [26] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Kiso Okami wrote: Rasatsu wrote: Yes, when there's no CRU, the spawns should always be from orbit... The current state where people just appear is as immersion-breaking as fedo farm with pink elephants. Well, tactical Drop Up-Links are lore-backed. They are wormhole tech. But yeah, pretty much anything else that's not the MCC or a CRU should be a HALO drop. Would HALO be an appropriate term? I mean our suits have 0 atmo endurance of a few hours and capable of going on planets with no breathables. HALO means "High-Altitude Low-Opening", meaning that you drop from anywhere high up and then up "parachute" (in this case activate inertia dampeners) at a really low point in the sky. HALO is a term relative to the location where you intend to land versus the altitude from which you exist the transport. But in the interest of being a lorefag, I'll consider calling it other names, if only to see what term sounds the best. So let's see... For "Orbital Drop" - OD - OrD - ODrop - OrDrop ("or drop", as in "you can use the CRU, the uplink or drop", lol) For "Ordbital Drop Maneuver" - ODM - OrDMan - OrDroM - ODroM For "Orbital Drop Operation" - ODO - OrDrOp (junctions, welp) For "Orbital Insertion" - OI - OIns For "Protected Orbital Drop" - POD (HA!) - PrO Drop (lol) Hmm... let's make this different... SOAP (Space Orbit interiA droP) - "Let's drop the SOAP on their asses!" SAID (Stratospheric Altitude Inertial Drop) - "The fat lady SAID 'we're here'!" meh... I think I'll let you figure out ever other idea... lol
Kiso Okami Militaires Sans Jeux 24	Posted - 2013.03.09 23:10:00 - [27] - Quote Tiel Syysch wrote: Cons: - Doesn't stop spawn camping if I can watch you fall. Whether you're stuck in inertia dampener recovery or inside a drop pod, doesn't stop me from shooting you or positioning myself and having my crosshair on you before you're able to fight back. - Allows even more nonsense of people on roofs, especially on buildings without ladders. I don't expect people to use it to get to the safest spot, rather to get to the dumbest spot they can possibly reach that would otherwise be inaccessible. I do not like this idea, because I can't think of any pros that could outweigh the above. That's you get to see where they are coming from doesn't mean that they couldn't be really hard to kill. In the moment that it took everyone in IRC to argue against the idea, I came up with counters just as viable and possible within the New Eden universe. One such thing could be drop pods giving you extended shields while you are in range of it to give you a chance of clearing anyone trying to camp you off. Would be like having a super charged shield for like 10 seconds that boosts you to have Heavy grade defenses even with militia gear for that given time. They're not invincible, but that's certainly going to give them time to have a chance to simply turn around, point and fire back at whoever's trying to camp them off.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 3058	Posted - 2013.03.09 23:13:00 - [28] - Quote I am against anything that grants invulnerbaility.
Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 347	Posted - 2013.03.09 23:13:00 - [29] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: Yes, when there's no CRU, the spawns should always be from orbit... The current state where people just appear is as immersion-breaking as fedo farm with pink elephants. I'm not sure I'd say from orbit (20 minute travel time), but certainly aerial. Heck, maybe you select a drop zone anywhere on the map and launch from the MCC towards it with a deviation of up to 100m in any direction from the selected point. I would say that if you select a Drop Uplink that should reduce the deviation down to under 20m. Maybe better uplinks reduce the deviation further. I love that sky insertion into the lava, BTW.
HowDidThatTaste Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2268	Posted - 2013.03.09 23:15:00 - [30] - Quote I always pictured this as why we wear "drop suits" sky spawning should be included for sure. Ideally you can controlled your descent to some degree but the default fall zone is in the general direction of your squad leader if he has not set up a hot zone. Otherwise he can set up a drop zone that is static like rally points, or onto a certain soldier to help that merc with his current assignment. This is something that would help with squad involvement and team play. Some limitations would be that you can't be shot until a certain height before hitting the ground, but at that same vulnerable stage you can start firing your weapon as well. So say the last 2 seconds or something you can be shot but you can also fire back. The only problem I see with it is landing on buildings and high places becoming a total sniper debacle. Although having to free fall into your sniper hide would be a good giveaway to your location and may balance it out, and now give reason for a sniper to be part of the insertion team.



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