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Yosef Autaal
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
46
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Posted - 2013.03.11 14:54:00 -
[61] - Quote
I like the idea of orbital drops alot more then jsut appearing.
On skirmish maps drops can only be done around controlled letters in open areas. each letter has an area around it which on spawn map is green areas which to dangerous clustered are in red showing dangerous and cannot drop there. a small circle is then placed within the green and you drop somewhere within that circle (no pinpoint sniper drops ontop of redberries)
On ambush maps areas you could either have it areas visible by team mates or anywhere on the map but the circle area for drops is alot larger so more risk of not spawning exactly where you wanted.
The only problem with this is letters inside building become obselete as spawns but there influence could be a large area so even in letters within building have somewhere for player drops.
on extra note can CRU look like clones can get out of them somehow instead of just appearing around them by magic
(you could do it as fluff where clones exit CRU with a form of cloaking and the conciousness not activated yet once a clone is out of the CRU a drug is pumped and the duster awakens and the cloak fails) |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
3072
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 15:48:00 -
[62] - Quote
Updated OP with a new video
As for an ingame dust 514 example of possible ways of accomplishment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI53ydJaus8
Near the start where the 'drop pod' drops the entire squad down.
This could allow insertion over a wider area making it difficult to get to the sweet spots also with noise and that all together makes it nearly impossible to be put in without getting noticed. |
G Torq
ALTA B2O
92
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Posted - 2013.03.11 16:14:00 -
[63] - Quote
My impressions and comment...
- How to do Orbital Drops / HALO jumps
- How to counter the Drops
- Various
- Alternatives
1st - How to do Orbital Drops / HALO jumps
This section deals with how to Drop, seen from the Merc's side, and options to improve the Drop.
- Select a general location with a 50m uncertainty, to avoid people doing pinpointed drops. Drops come at "random" per-battle angles (you insert for same area in the sky). Modules could allow for added precision.
- Drop in an Individual Insertion Vehicle (or "pod") until either ejecting or 40m above floor (floor != ground), with ability to do minimal correction to trajectory. Skill to allow slightly more control, but nothing significant.
- Upon ejection, is merc's responsibility to enable Inertial Dampners.
2nd - How to counter the Drops
This deals with how to handle Mercs, that choose to insert via a Drop.
- During the Drop, depending on Atmosphere, there would be visible trails in the sky from the Vehicle, and likely sonic booms, all indicating where a Merc either is dropping or has dropped.
- While dropping, the vehicle (or exposed Merc) can be shot by other players, while the vehicle will also be a target for installations, in line with DropShips etc
- When an opposing Merc has dropped, it is up to the team/squad to decide whether to dispatch a squad to deal with the target. If he/she dropped somewhere non-critical, can perhaps be ignored momentarily
3rd - Various, or why this works
Here I'll try to outline why this is perfectly valid.
- Drops are High-Risk, High-Gain methods of insertion. It is plausible the vehicle, and Merc inside, will be shot out of the sky before reaching safety, or that he/she will encounter a squad sent to dispatch the new threat. Meanwhile, if successfull, the Merc can set up a base with Drop Link etc for calling in the rest of his/her squad.
- Drops are not the only method of insertion. CRUs (possibly inserted during initial stages), mCRUs (eg DropShips), DropLinks and possibly MCC spawns for attackers, or a home-base for the defender, are all still valid. Drops should only be used as the exception (or because, "Look At Me, weee").
- Drops add an extra element of strategy (and possible ISK+SP sink)
- Drops add a reasonable mechanism for establishing a "beach head" in a fight, where first step can be to Drop the Team into Squad-coordinated locations.
- Uncertainty in Drops means it may be difficult for snipers to hit a given roof-top/moutainside/whatever, leaving them at a bad location. Likewise, a Squad deploying in an urban enviroment may find that squad-members are spread out, with walls/buildings between them.
4th - Alternative options
Finally, some different options...
- Insertion vehicles (i.e. "pods") do not need to be individual. Could also be larger vehicles, similar to an RDV, from which a number of Mercs can deploy. With a turn-around time, there would be a delay, and all Mercs that are willing to (or having to) wait, will be collected and dispatched together. This adds an element of insertion-of-force (more than a single Merc), and added control, but also paints a bigger target.
- Spawn-On-Merc - a DropLink-like module carried by a Merc that you simply spawn "next to".
- Deploying a CRU - a CRU that TeamLead/Commander can deploy to create a ground-base, so Mercs don't have to insert from space/orbit.
- Squad-jumps - where your Squad Lead chooses the destination, and you simply have to tag along with the rest of the squad. Could force some teamwork within your squad.
OIverall, I support the notion of Orbital Drops, both for effect and strategy. Seeing a team of 24-32 red Mercs deploying would be absolutely stunning and scary, and being able to use AA guns to hinder their insertion, only more so!
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XXfootnoteXX
DUST University
Ivy League
101
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 16:23:00 -
[64] - Quote
Usually if I wait long enough. Someone will come along and post something I really agree with.
+1 |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
3073
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 16:30:00 -
[65] - Quote
Torq had a very good quality post overall and laid things out and about. I have to agree with the pro's in his argument. |
Zyrus Amalomyn
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
51
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 16:40:00 -
[66] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:I'm on the fence about this. Yes, awesome, yes, useful, but also yes, takes away from the rest of the game.
One big issue with Dust right now is that it's very difficult to maintain map ownership. This is mostly because the map design isn't as awesome as it could be. Being able to spawn anywhere on the map sounds like it'd decrease map ownership by a lot and those worsen this aspect of the game.
There is a game on the PC called Section 8, it actually deals with this aspect of drop podding quite well. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
3073
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 16:40:00 -
[67] - Quote
Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:Stefan Stahl wrote:I'm on the fence about this. Yes, awesome, yes, useful, but also yes, takes away from the rest of the game.
One big issue with Dust right now is that it's very difficult to maintain map ownership. This is mostly because the map design isn't as awesome as it could be. Being able to spawn anywhere on the map sounds like it'd decrease map ownership by a lot and those worsen this aspect of the game. There is a game on the PC called Section 8, it actually deals with this aspect of drop podding quite well.
You should check out the video I linked in the OP then :D |
GeneralButtNaked
Burnwall Industries
90
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 17:07:00 -
[68] - Quote
I don't think solo drops from orbit are a great idea from a game play perspective. However the idea of a insertion pod capable of carrying a full squad or two to be a very appealing idea. Especially if it could carry those troops or be sent empty. Being able to call in a two million ISK ruse or drop a heavy bomb would provide great game play options.
It needs to be pricey, so that it is not spammed, and should be focused on the squad, not individual level. |
DustMercsBlog
Galactic News Network
16
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Posted - 2013.03.11 18:23:00 -
[69] - Quote
this very good. varying spawns more a great idea. |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1091
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 19:23:00 -
[70] - Quote
It'd look cool but it'd have gameplay ramifications, the most obvious of which is that you're falling in from the sky, presumably with an inertial dampener. People will see you when you spawn, sometimes. There's also the question of vulnerability when you spawn. As well, is the descent controlled, like Planetside 2 drop pods? Or do you land at a specific place that, presumably, enemies could run to as they see you appear overhead?
I'm not saying any of these things are good or bad, just that they're significant questions. While nobody would argue that falling in from space is cooler than magically teleporting in (given that teleportation doesn't exist in EVE) it's not as simple as "looks cool, let's do it!"
In my own judgment, I'd say that a very rapid, invulnerable, controlled descent on spawning would be good. Give the spawning player a downward-view from some kind of orbital insertion pod, so that any camps are visible, but give little control over the area you land at. The idea here is that people would be assigned their spawn point, they'd appear overhead in some kind of protected shell so that they can't be shot out of the sky (snipers would easily be capable of doing this given how simplistic sniper rifles are), they'd be able to see where the spawn is being camped if at all, and be able to adjust their trajectory accordingly. Or otherwise, simply land closer to where they're going.
Thus, spawning becomes better for the people doing the spawning, less vulnerable to camps, but doesn't create new crappy stuff like being shot out of the sky by a tank or forge gun or sniper. |
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G Torq
ALTA B2O
94
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Posted - 2013.03.11 19:59:00 -
[71] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:It'd look cool but it'd have gameplay ramifications, the most obvious of which is that you're falling in from the sky, presumably with an inertial dampener. People will see you when you spawn, sometimes. There's also the question of vulnerability when you spawn. As well, is the descent controlled, like Planetside 2 drop pods? Or do you land at a specific place that, presumably, enemies could run to as they see you appear overhead?
I'd point to my own post above, suggesting that:
1) Dropping from the sky is dangerous and obvious - not something you should do for fun
2) Dropping from the sky is inprecise - usable, but risky
3) Dropping from the sky has inate strategic advantages...
most importantly
4) Dropping from the sky cannot/must not be the only option. |
icdedppul
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
0
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Posted - 2013.03.11 20:55:00 -
[72] - Quote
so if its a viable tactic then there will also be a viable counter
given that we have these billions of ISK invested in defensive infrastructure (or will when we get SOV) it seems odd that we wouldn't have auto tracking defensive installations able to gleen falling objects as threats and shoot them down before impact
still curious on how installations make it down all though they end up neutral ( so far ) when they arrive so I can forgive it
given that people are talking squad based drop pods right now wouldn't we be able to do that with a remote drop of an active CRU and just start the spawn before it actually lands
so I think it would be individual drop
you would need zones of control on the battlefield, null cannons would have a defensive envelope and unless you controlled it the closer you drop to it the more likely you would be shot down, so you would then get a % likelyhood of actually arriving and if you wanted to still do it you could drop
then this would be counter acted by drop pods with cloaking/ECM costing you more ISK the better ones you buy and would be based on suit frame size too as larger frames require better ECM/Cloak to make it down
then there is always the possibility of hitting a cloaked RDV on the way down just to ruin your lunch
in the end I think its a bad idea for long term game play
why not just get a missile that you can fire across the map and will drop/seed random drop uplink points (note I think this is a bad idea too, just that its plausible)
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J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
651
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Posted - 2013.03.11 21:15:00 -
[73] - Quote
Pods should come in various sizes and must be purchased much like any other suit or item in game. Pod is destroyed on impact.
Various sizes will support 1, 2 or an entire squad possibly. Larger ones have slower momentum and handling but more armor.
Perhaps the squad ones could tie into a upgraded command system when that comes woth commander mode, must be activated by a commander? |
V Shadow
DUST University
Ivy League
34
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Posted - 2013.03.11 21:51:00 -
[74] - Quote
I Always enjoyed the pods on battlefield 2142, though they were open to a few glitches http://youtu.be/zC0HLtc5AxQ |
Geth Massredux
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
90
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 21:56:00 -
[75] - Quote
I just like the idea of flying from a higher place other then the MCC. Spawning from Orbit shooting down to the planet surface is a cloned mercenary dream... 
I approve of the idea |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
3073
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 01:04:00 -
[76] - Quote
So what does everyone think about a squad warpoint/isk cost drop shuttle like in the intro movie? and where the shuttle crashes it turns into something useable like a supply depot? |
Akira Regendorf
Conspiratus Immortalis
22
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 07:34:00 -
[77] - Quote
Ok so here is my .02 ISK on the subject:
Here goes first Ambush:
- In ambush I think the default spawn should be replaced with an orbital insertion
- You may select where you are inserted, however there is a 100m variance on actual point of touchdown, thus keeping things more random, eleminates the worry of snipers droping themselves right in that perfect spot that cant be reached (also if a sniper droped there so can you)
- buildings are off limits, any kind of structure is off limits, a warning of "unsafe drop zone" or something could be given, justification for lores sake could be that drop pod hits with too much force and would result in damage to structure or drop pod itself, also the 100m variance should never end up putting the merc on top of a structure
- Insertion woulde be done with high speed drop pods that have a large amount of sheild and armor, potentially destroyable but very unlikely
- Merc able to see out of pod either through windows or some kind of virtual display, one side of pod blowss off for merc egress, merc able to rotate pod on decent both for quick survey of battlefield and to help protect against spawn killing (I know there is a sniper on that hill, make sure to point door away so I dont get sniped the second I drop)
- pods selfdestruct 5 seconds after touchdown killing anyone still inside but not damaging anyhting around them
useing this method uplinks and CRUs are stil very usefule because you know exactly were you will end up also more "stealhy" as there wont be a fiery pod streaking down. Also keeps dropships as viable methods for troup movement, still needed to get up to youre nice little sniper perch and what not
ok now for Skirmish:
- MCC, null cannons, and base would still be spawn points, able to drop in a limited area around your base at beginning of match
- Null cannons should have a built in high speed orbital defense system or something, makeing any points your team doesnt control "hot zones", each null cannon has a certain coverage area
- "hot zones" would be shown on the overview when choosing spawn as red hash marks or something, you can still drop in there but there is say a 90% chance that the pod would be destroyed on the way in, this would stil enable a solid front line and territory ownership in the match, but would also give a redlined team a chance to make a come back, take the risk in a free uplink fit to try and start a beach head
- Touchdown variance reduced to say 50m
other than that it would be the same as what I said in ambush, I think this could make the game very interesting and allot more fun, could provide allot of solutions to allot of problems we are experiencing as far as spawns go but would need to be done right to limit allot of exploits. could add skills and maybe better droppods for purchase that could say reduce he touchdown variance in ambush, or increase the likelihood of surviving a drop into a hot zone. Obviou
While I think this is a fantastic idea and I would love to see this happen if implimented similarly to what I said there are still isues that would need to be worked out.
- what happens if drop pod lands on a merc or vehicle?
- what about our drop ship pilots, with mercs just raining from the sky will it become an absolute night mare for them to fly?
just a couple that I would really be worried about, there are others I'm sure |
Cat Merc
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
19
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 08:32:00 -
[78] - Quote
I suggested a Section 8 like spawn system a long time ago, but it was shot down by the community saying its a stupid idea.
Suddenly some people like it, who knew. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1953
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 08:37:00 -
[79] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:I suggested a Section 8 like spawn system a long time ago, but it was shot down by the community saying its a stupid idea.
Suddenly some people like it, who knew.
When I suggested it a long time ago, people liked it. |
Cat Merc
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
19
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 08:39:00 -
[80] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Cat Merc wrote:I suggested a Section 8 like spawn system a long time ago, but it was shot down by the community saying its a stupid idea.
Suddenly some people like it, who knew. When I suggested it a long time ago, people liked it.
Yup, I remember that.
I in fact posted my thread in your thread since we had the same idea. |
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1954
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 08:41:00 -
[81] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Cat Merc wrote:I suggested a Section 8 like spawn system a long time ago, but it was shot down by the community saying its a stupid idea.
Suddenly some people like it, who knew. When I suggested it a long time ago, people liked it. Yup, I remember that. I in fact posted my thread in your thread since we had the same idea.
I knew I recognised the name from somewhere...
Well, at least it's finally getting noticed... I guess? |
Cat Merc
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
19
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 09:09:00 -
[82] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Cat Merc wrote:I suggested a Section 8 like spawn system a long time ago, but it was shot down by the community saying its a stupid idea.
Suddenly some people like it, who knew. When I suggested it a long time ago, people liked it. Yup, I remember that. I in fact posted my thread in your thread since we had the same idea. I knew I recognised the name from somewhere... Well, at least it's finally getting noticed... I guess?
Heh.
Well, I'm just glad that the devs are starting to consider orbital drops.
I don't want it to become ring mining 2.0. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
3073
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 13:59:00 -
[83] - Quote
Doesn't section 8 have the orbital drop spawns as exclusive? |
Cat Merc
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
29
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Posted - 2013.03.12 19:02:00 -
[84] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Doesn't section 8 have the orbital drop spawns as exclusive?
Yeah and it actually works well.
I'm really sad the game was a flop.
I mean really, it was a great game (one of the best shooters at the time of its release) for 15$, 15$!
I don't understand why people didn't buy it. |
Val'herik Dorn
CrimeWave Syndicate
329
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Posted - 2013.03.12 19:13:00 -
[85] - Quote
Reading the drop pod Idea... all i can think is landing in the thing as the doors burst open charging out with a squad full of heavies using heavy bolters using my tech marine to repair them screaming FOR THE EMPRAH...
but yea i still wouldn't mind the idea i think it could be an amusing addition to the game. |
Cat Merc
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
31
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Posted - 2013.03.12 19:29:00 -
[86] - Quote
Val'herik Dorn wrote:Reading the drop pod Idea... all i can think is landing in the thing as the doors burst open charging out with a squad full of heavies using heavy bolters using my tech marine to repair them screaming FOR THE EMPRAH...
but yea i still wouldn't mind the idea i think it could be an amusing addition to the game.
FOR THE EMPIRE!
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/109/1/9/javik_the_trollean_by_bigcman321-d4w7kop.jpg |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
115
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 20:19:00 -
[87] - Quote
Orbital/Aerial drop.
Just do it CCP. It should have been in the game from the start. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
3083
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 12:45:00 -
[88] - Quote
Now that its wed. More people should be back after capping out.
Bumping for this crowd and hopefully that should be enough. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
3083
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 12:48:00 -
[89] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Doesn't section 8 have the orbital drop spawns as exclusive? Yeah and it actually works well. I'm really sad the game was a flop. I mean really, it was a great game (one of the best shooters at the time of its release) for 15$, 15$! I don't understand why people didn't buy it.
The very same sad reason why people kept on buying Socom (in retrospect it wasn't good) CoD and Battlefield every year. |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
6
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 17:12:00 -
[90] - Quote
 I liked the drop pods before they were removed, they provided cover for mercs deploying and really added to the look and feel that we were dropping from orbit.
I also agree that the drop uplinks should allow us to drop in an area close to them. If the drop pods could sync with the uplinks it would be better than the current CRU tech on the battlefield.
These were removed due to a need to work on the uplinks if I remember correctly.
Death from being under one as it lands would be nice too. Then we could get kills from deploying over top of an enemy position.
Please bring back the drop pods! |
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