What would your feelings be if CCP added an innate bonus to fitting a cloaking module on the scout dropsuit?
Would that leave the problem solved, mitigated, or unchanged?

Cheers,
Cross

What would your feelings be if CCP added an innate bonus to fitting a cloaking module on the scout dropsuit?
Would that leave the problem solved, mitigated, or unchanged?
Cheers,
Cross

That would help a lot, but I figure that if any suit can do it (IF), then it wouldn't.

It makes sense to make Scouts paper-thin, but I think reducing the CPU and module capability is a no-go.

I don't know, I seem to be having no problem with the CPU/PG of my scout suit. But then again, I only fitted a nova knife which doesn't have much CPU/PG demands.

Imo it should permanently move at or right below it's current sprint speed, at least something to make it just as useful

CCP is having tweak weekend, where we tweak a lot of stuff just for ***** and giggles

Right now I'm getting hit detection errors on scouts that jump a good ten to fifteen feet through the air like ninjas in an anime. Fix that (the hit detection, not the jumping - that's kind of cool) before you start adding more to them.

Really? Let's keep the scout suit unused so it does generate any feedback? Hitbox detection is a rare problem and it's only the most apparent on scouts because of their small hitbox.

Scouts are already a pain in a** to deal with, specially when they using OP shotguns too. They don't need any extra tools to help them OP even more.

Or balance the shotgun first, and then give them a cloaking device.

I've given up on the Scout suit ever getting re-balanced ever since the strafe speed/HP values on advanced/prototype getting nuked.

Seriously, Heavies and HMGs are just starting to make a comeback and already they're "looking into" them because too many people have red tampons over it.

Thereby, Scouts will -never- get rebalanced so long as we keep this same development team - which are really really REALLY bad about communicating with the community. I mean, come on, they can't even put down fifteen minutes for a dev blog, what makes you think they're going to collaborate a bunch of data to see if there's a legitimate issue with the dropsuits/weapons?

To top it off the Scout is supposedly "balanced" for features that aren't even in the ****ing game yet.

Now THATS intrinsic development.

The scout needs more cpu/pg capacity, OR it's primary weapon [the sniper rifle] needs to have cpu/pg requirements reduced... and it needs to get the cloaking device exclusively.

I use a scout suit, sniper is not my primary weapon. Also, most snipers I see don't use the scout suit.

Really? Let's keep the scout suit unused so it does generate any feedback? Hitbox detection is a rare problem and it's only the most apparent on scouts because of their small hitbox.

Don't get me wrong, Bojo, I used to play scout exclusively, as my avatar hints; yes they mostly suck right now, as you suggest. A good, skilled player can do okay with them, but they need addressing -- so does hit detection, though. I don't want to see invincible scouts again because CCP can't fix hit detection even after six months (heck, it was probably a lot longer ago than that).

I still remember running a scout with an AR and taking down Assaults, Heavies, everything that came my way in a stand up, head-to-head fight. I do NOT want to see that again.

Edit: And yep, when the heck are we going to see scouts that actually stealth? Come on CCP.

I use a scout suit, sniper is not my primary weapon.

Also, most snipers I see don't use the scout suit.

when the heck are we going to see scouts that actually stealth? Come on CCP.

scout are OP in the snese they literally can strafe faster than you the game allows you to turn

side track. Yep, only suit to snipe in is with a heavy. take a hit/ warning shot and move. Weapons should have been suit/ class based - not the way done.

Good for you.



Very astute. I'm sorry my post was a bit long-winded for you.
A short attention span is a terrible thing, and you clearly understand this.

Alright, at least you agree that scouts are broke

Damn dude, that's harsh. The devs DO provide a weekly post stating what they have reviewed... although more meat and potatoes would be nice, so to speak.

I'm working (not playing) as a logi sniper now, simply because it fills the role of a sniper better for me. I can fit a proto-rifle, gauged uplinks, gauged nanohives, triple dmg mods, some nades, and an armor repper... I can set myself and a fellow sniper up on separate perches with just my equipment alone, and STILL provide multiple spawn points and support for my crew.

Everything I salivated for with the proto-scout vk1, im getting right now (and more) on a logi A-series. Im not a sniper that will find myself in the thick-of-things, so i don't require scout speed.
The scout suit is simply **** useless for my gameplay style compared to what you can get out of a logi currently.

Scouts can't get totally scan invisible, since all anyone has to do is scan or wave their crosshairs across the map to find snipers (instead of finding them visually), so they immediately fail at the "stealth" thing in that regard.
The ONLY thing that can redeem the scout suit is the cloaking device... but if every other suit is going to get it too, AND every other suit has higher cpu/pg capacity... then again the scout suit would be rendered useless by comparison. I would simply install the cloak on my logi sniper.

Only the scout should have the cloaking device, and a GOOD cloaking device. No other class would suffer a penalty if discovered through cloak like a scout would.
Discover a cloaked shield tanked assault? Oh well, Duvolle to face.
Discover a cloaked heavy? Bless you, you just found Predator. HMG to face.
Discover a cloaked logi? *Zelda item acquisition theme* Free heals! Come again real soon! OR [weapon of your choice] to face.

Discover a cloaked scout? With little to no defensive capacity he's finished. His survivability depends on not being found.

The scout needs more cpu/pg capacity, OR it's primary weapon [the sniper rifle] needs to have cpu/pg requirements reduced... and it needs to get the cloaking device exclusively.

...and everything else the OP listed.

I'm not entirely sure what the point of your sarcasm was, but I now see that my point may have been somewhat unclear.

Buffing the sniper rifle won't boost/fix scouts because:

1. Most (?) snipers wear some other suit anyway, meaning it also boosts those suits.
2. It will do nothing to boost/fix the suit for everyone not using it for sniping.

Since I mainly use other weapons I believe you're wrong to say that sniper is its primary. You stated your belief/opinion on the matter but presented it as a fact, it's not.

EDIT: If scouts are to be fixed or boosted, changes need to be made to the *suit*.

The presets issued when you first make a character, are just that, presets indicating a role to be played. Scout suits were meant to snipe with. Assaults were meant to run-and-gun. Logis were meant to fix things. Heavies were meant to face enemy vehicles. These are facts, not my opinion. They are called Arbiters, Enforcers, Artificers, and Dire Sentinels, respectively.

Just because you are allowed to take one suit and put it into a different role, does not mean that the suit does not have a predetermined role that it was designed for.

And you are quite wrong on your first point:
1. If i could fit everything I needed on my scout suit, I would not use the logi suit, this is true for other snipers, but not all snipers, as well.

I have no comment on the second.

Just because you are quite content with your fitting, does not change the fact that other people have concerns with the suit's balance.

Whoa whoa whoa. You can't design a suit around a single weapon. You certainly can't continue to think that way either. I mean heavies are better suited for sniping because a sniper gives their position away anyways so stealth isn't a factor. But they like to think that it is so they threw the scout a "weapon of choice" although it's completely not suited for scouts at the moment and probably wouldn't in the future.

No suit is meant to be something, it's just that their set up may favor roles over others. Artificers start with a remote repair tool, so they must not be supposed to equip nanites, hives, uplinks, and remote explosives right?

stuff...

Sorry, should have mentioned; I agree scouts could use a little tweaking. I also didn't disagree with most of what you said, only the suggestion that the suit could be fixed by tuning a weapon (which, admittedly, was a side-note at the end of your post, but anyway ;)), wouldn't want CCP to do that on a whim and call the suit fixed ;).

On-topic: I really think a cloaking device for the scout suit would make it more useful overall vs. other scout suits.
There was another thread where someone had some excellent ideas, well thought-out ideas for cloaking.

Just for reference, https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=60694

What would your feelings be if CCP added an innate bonus to fitting a cloaking module on the scout dropsuit?
Would that leave the problem solved, mitigated, or unchanged?

Cheers,
Cross

Blah, cloaks aren't savior modules which are gonna make entire class usable. Or are you willing to force every single scout suit user to fit one?
Especially as cloak module, if there's ever gonna be one, is expected to have a major handicap as well.

Well cloaks are all nice but that's not going to solve the suit. Just because it can have cloaking or whatever doesn't mean that someone is going to use it, so cloaking becomes a limiting factor making it a broken suit for those who want to use it in other ways, destroying in essence Sandbox.

Ok, There are many valid points in this thread but the scout suit is good if you use it right. If you spec into scanning skills you can see through walls and slip around rather unnoticed.

I've also seen no mention of the type-2 scout suit. It has two equipment slots so you can repair and revive a heavy while using your great scan stats to spot targets for them, while having a fast shotgunner to flank targets while your newly revived and full health heavy keeps them busy.

buff the shields is all i want.

I'm not saying you can't be effective with it, but number crunching and my experience says that if I was to go head to head in combat with myself, one as an assault suit one as a Scout (let's just say I'm just as good in both suits) the Assault would win hands down every match.

They actually have amazing shield regen

So when scouts get cloaking, how many will QQ because they can't fire while cloaked? How many will QQ when their cloak drops, or becomes ineffective of someone gets within two meters of them? How many will QQ when they miss shots because of the firing delay of dropping cloak?

Of course we don't know how cloaking is actually going to work, but if Eve is any indication, the above will be very likely.

You can run an equivalent type-II logi suit that exceeds a scout in all departments except hitbox size. A B-Series Logi shotgun outperforms the same build on a scout drastically. Unless there is new content incoming that will balance the equation, I really don't think this is fair to scout users. They can be so much fun, but the lack of feasible builds, and the steep SP curve for suvivability really kills any incentive to use them.

Indeed, the Scout dropsuit is broken. I think one of the reasons for that is the fact that, despite it's supposed electronic superiority, it has the lowest amount of CPU of any dropsuit.

That doesn't make much sense, now does it?

a cloak would in my opinion ruin the game..

every other game I have played where a cloak for a sniper was available would result in them sitting in corners waiting for unsuspecting visitors.. camping away and then blam, unsuspecting death from an invisible foe, who will more than likely be cloaked again when you return..

in this game you only need one invisible sniper at every capped flag.. then you cant lose.

I dont think its a cloak the scout needs its more module space and better CPU plus faster movement or a much lower profile.

Sorry to tell you but scouts were meant for cloaking. Just read the suit description, its basically already built into the suits.

cloaking is bunk because the stealth mechanisms in this game don't even work good. A heavy can walk up behind a basic suit and go unnoticed...

Unless you've got a couple points into profile analysis and/or have a precision enhancer. Stealth and detection works just fine, you just have to invest a little bit into it.

I've yet to invest any SP into TACNET and scanners have only saved me once or twice. It's honestly not anything useful right now. Until they fix LoS vs Scanners then will it be worth it, but scanners kind of have wimpy range and even when I use them they don't pick up people sometimes...in heavy suits.

If a Heavy manages to "sneak up" on me when I'm playing Scout, it's because I screwed up.

Elaborate on how it would be your fault? Sure it may be your fault for letting a heavy there in the first place, but having the heavy be invisible to radar mere meters behind you is due to slightly faulted mechanics.

I understand more from the new Dev Video Diary that the scout is Light Frame so that means less meat on the bones, I understand that, but paying more for less? That's messed. The fact that a sniper can have their reticule in the general vicinity of where I am and have me show up on Tacnet is what get's my goat.

Elaborate on how it would be your fault?

scan - have trouble picking up 6 guys on the other side of the hill but can spot through buildings across the map with a sniper rifle.. makes sense

so I'm a scout, my main is sitting on 1.94 million unallocated SP to take my lvl 3 scout to proto right now.. just waiting to see if anything changes in the next couple weeks (come on mar12 i'm expecting big things) my alt is sitting on lvl 3

not really sure what I can say about this.. more love for the scout suit would be wonderful. at the same time I dont want to go back to the days of superscouts that you cant hit as they dance the jig

im against the idea of the cloaking module especially one that gets better the longer you sit still as that will just promote more people sitting in the hills doing nothing and make the scout/shotgun build even more prevalent

other suggestions about more slots are useless as we don't have the CPU/PG to run more slots (first skill I maxed was circuitry, I even have shield upgrades to lvl 5 for the extra 3% reduction on shield modules and is sad that it doesnt apply to regulators.. and I am always surprised when someone complains they have to bring circuitry up to lvl 4)

but things that I think should be fixed before they start tweaking the scout
Hit detection - Im a scout bad hit detection benefits me the most and I want it fixed
Stackable damage mods - wth why haven't these been fixed yet
scan - have trouble picking up 6 guys on the other side of the hill but can spot through buildings across the map with a sniper rifle.. makes sense

a cloak would in my opinion ruin the game..

every other game I have played where a cloak for a sniper was available would result in them sitting in corners waiting for unsuspecting visitors.. camping away and then blam, unsuspecting death from an invisible foe, who will more than likely be cloaked again when you return..

in this game you only need one invisible sniper at every capped flag.. then you cant lose.

I dont think its a cloak the scout needs its more module space and better CPU plus faster movement or a much lower profile.

Simple solution to that.

1) Flux Grenades disable electronics, thus disable the cloak.
2) Add a weapon with an infrared scope, or make attachments part of the game and have that as an attachment.

2) Add a weapon with an infrared scope, or make attachments part of the game and have that as an attachment.

God I hope not, that would make snipers even more of a pain.

Well for one I originally suggested it be a unique weapon, in which case it would be no good for sniping. And if they do go the attachment route then it would have only a 1x zoon which would not help snipers at all.

As a primarily heavy player, I think the scouts need strafing speed and generally more mobility. The cloaking sounds like a good idea with this, but I think their real strength could lie in their ability to disengage and engage whenever they need to. Ambush that heavy, strafe down, sprint up and finish him off as your squad mates catch up and catch his attention. I imagine the cloaking would only aid in that for solo scout suits. Engage, flee when they get a bead on you, cloak and watch them go 'Huh? He was here a minute ago.' like those baddies in Metal Gear Solid. Then finish 'em. To me, that would help out a scout greatly. Then I might actually consider playing one.

A scout cloaking in front of me wouldn't make me stop firing and go "WTF!". I'd immediately start cover fire hoping to catch the cloaked scout, or drive them off.

Elaborate on how it would be your fault? Sure it may be your fault for letting a heavy there in the first place, but having the heavy be invisible to radar mere meters behind you is due to slightly faulted mechanics.

I understand more from the new Dev Video Diary that the scout is Light Frame so that means less meat on the bones, I understand that, but paying more for less? That's messed. The fact that a sniper can have their reticule in the general vicinity of where I am and have me show up on Tacnet is what get's my goat.

If someone that slow gets that close to me before I see them coming, I wasn't checking corners, or I was backpedalling into them, or I was fixated on the direction I was facing and forgot to look behind me while staying in one place for a long period. Scouts need to be keeping an eye out. If I'm with team- or squadmates, then I check the minimap and try to watch a direction they AREN'T looking.

Also, my suit has a 25m Scan Radius (at least 10m longer than any other suit) with accurate enough Scan Precision that I can pick up most Heavies (admittedly, only MOST, not all) without having to look at them, even when my teammates aren't around to spot the enemy for me.

I still DO occasionally get caught out by Heavies, but it was always, ALWAYS due to a lack of attention and care on my part at least as much as because of the Heavy doing a good job.

So what's your point in the context of this thread?

The point is that scouts are not front-line fighters, but they aren't without their uses. They have great scan stats, which have been used to great effect by people who have skilled into getting the most out of those stats.

Ah, thank you for clarifying. In that case, isn't that cometely obvious? Meaning that nothing is wrong with the scout suit as long as you use it correctly?

Pretty much. I wouldn't say the scout suit is "broke", It's just not suited for the type of combat people use it for.

Lest of all it being pitted against geks with maxed sharpshooter and the broken complex damage mod stacked 3-4 deep, but that's another post.

Pretty much. I wouldn't say the scout suit is "broke", It's just not suited for the type of combat people use it for.

Lest of all it being pitted against geks with maxed sharpshooter and the broken complex damage mod stacked 3-4 deep, but that's another post.

Too true. I still agree that the scouts seem to be getting the sharp stick, point first, in the backside though. Compared to all other suits they lack in almost every area.

But like you said, if people use it at it's most efficient, then it certainly has a place here.

Yeah, but how many people use it within the role it's best at?

Holy Crap I think the scout got a buff!

I logged on for the Caldari Prime battles and:

My Radar was actually working withing reason!
My scout was really fast!

Yet I wasn't very apparent on enemy radar (I assume) as I wasn't detected a whole lot.

This might work enough for me to actually invest in the Tac Net skills:
Related note, when is the active scanner equipment returning? It's a tool actually worth while for a scout with the radar working as is.

Pssh, hopefully when they get it to actually work. The Vehicle module is still in-game and despite people saying that it does, I have yet to successfully get it to work.

Even tested it on a lone heavy who was standing -ten meters away- from my dropship and turned it on, still couldn't pick up his chevron after three pulses.

The original one gave absolutely no indication that it was even being turned on, let alone whether or not it was effectively working.

They need to just remove that module entirely and give us Target Painters or something.

Next time I log back in I'll try and confirm that the radar was actually working. But it was like red dots left and right, and my shotgun scout seemed really fast. But again I will double back and make sure that these buffs are actually applicable OUTSIDE of the mercenary event.

Do keep in mind that if another player on your team can sight a target they will appear for you as well. When testing the scanning system, it's best to do it in a completely controlled environment devoid of all life and preferably set us a corp battle with a friendly corporation.

Right. It just seems that the sheer quantity of red dots that was picked up compared to the number of blue dots nearby lead me to believe so. But I will sick my lab rats on the project.

Just saying, I don't trust a system that can magically dedicate people coming up behind me and vice versa.

Even when I'm running a Heavy suit there's been times where a Scout should have gotten the jump on me but didn't due to this weird ass scanning system tracking primarily at your six o'clock. No idea why it's more powerful in that direction but it is.