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Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
433
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Posted - 2013.02.23 01:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Read the OP's of these: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=552445#post552445 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=528143#post528143 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=477607#post477607 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=356436#post356436
Basically, when stacked against an Assault: Scout Suit: Less CPU Equal PG Less Modules Less Total HP (Type II has greater armor its assault counterpart) More Expensive [Scout=7600] [Assault=6800] More SP
The only benefit to a scout is marginally decreased profile and a definite increase in speed. When you spec into a logi, you are getting into something that is comparably balanced and more functional in its role than the scout for the same amount of SP.
So what I'm saying is that the price, SP and ISK is too high for scouts to be this weighed against them. I say a second high slot and more CPU/PG. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
433
|
Posted - 2013.02.23 01:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:What would your feelings be if CCP added an innate bonus to fitting a cloaking module on the scout dropsuit? Would that leave the problem solved, mitigated, or unchanged? Cheers, Cross That would help a lot, but I figure that if any suit can do it (IF), then it wouldn't. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
433
|
Posted - 2013.02.23 02:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jackof All-Trades wrote:It makes sense to make Scouts paper-thin, but I think reducing the CPU and module capability is a no-go. precisely. I don't mind low HP, it's the lack of modules and fitting capabilities (CPU/PG) |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
433
|
Posted - 2013.02.23 04:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:I don't know, I seem to be having no problem with the CPU/PG of my scout suit. But then again, I only fitted a nova knife which doesn't have much CPU/PG demands. Yeah I don't either really but I have max combat engineering and circuitry...
But the problem here is that we're paying more ISK and SP for too little. Just give the overall suit a little fitting buff (not HP buff) |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
433
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Posted - 2013.02.23 04:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:Imo it should permanently move at or right below it's current sprint speed, at least something to make it just as useful Basic movement speed at 7.84 m/s?...that sounds like a fun special testing weekend event
Devs in the future wrote:CCP is having tweak weekend, where we tweak a lot of stuff just for ***** and giggles |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
433
|
Posted - 2013.02.23 08:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Illuminaughty-696 wrote:Right now I'm getting hit detection errors on scouts that jump a good ten to fifteen feet through the air like ninjas in an anime. Fix that (the hit detection, not the jumping - that's kind of cool) before you start adding more to them. Really? Let's keep the scout suit unused so it does generate any feedback? Hitbox detection is a rare problem and it's only the most apparent on scouts because of their small hitbox. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
433
|
Posted - 2013.02.23 17:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
It's not Codex at least...
The only scout suits you see are 'Dragonfly' because everyone and their mother has the merc pack.
It's not making sense to have cons outweigh pros on a more expensive and limited suit. They give me 2 low slots, great I can armor tank, but one High slot along with the lowest HP? Even if it had the same number of module slots and was fitted just like an assault, it'd still have less HP than the assault, by the same amount as if no modules had been added.
Stealth isn't a legitimate feature yet, so I'm not paying more for increased stealth, and my Sprint speed is the fastest because I have the lowest HP. So everything else is not being weighed against something, so it's "breaking" the suit. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
433
|
Posted - 2013.02.23 21:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Illuminaughty-696 wrote:Don't get me wrong, Bojo, I used to play scout exclusively, as my avatar hints; yes they mostly suck right now, as you suggest. A good, skilled player can do okay with them, but they need addressing -- so does hit detection, though. I don't want to see invincible scouts again because CCP can't fix hit detection even after six months (heck, it was probably a lot longer ago than that).
I still remember running a scout with an AR and taking down Assaults, Heavies, everything that came my way in a stand up, head-to-head fight. I do NOT want to see that again.
Edit: And yep, when the heck are we going to see scouts that actually stealth? Come on CCP. Alright, at least you agree that scouts are broke |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
433
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Posted - 2013.02.24 20:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alright so I specced into A Series and it's better but the fact that all it has over a Type I Assault suit is PG/CPU is sort of a downgrade to Scouts. I mean, it takes that much SP to get a less-than-Type I Assault suit? Come on.... |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
433
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Posted - 2013.02.25 03:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ So true, scout suit has reduced effectiveness over an assault by too much. I understand that the scout suit isn't really a frontal combat suit, but why get rid of a module? I mean they already have low HP, tanking an assault is still going to be greater than tanking a scout because of preset HP, so why the hate?
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Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
450
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Posted - 2013.02.27 19:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jathniel wrote: The presets issued when you first make a character, are just that, presets indicating a role to be played. Scout suits were meant to snipe with. Assaults were meant to run-and-gun. Logis were meant to fix things. Heavies were meant to face enemy vehicles. These are facts, not my opinion. They are called Arbiters, Enforcers, Artificers, and Dire Sentinels, respectively.
Just because you are allowed to take one suit and put it into a different role, does not mean that the suit does not have a predetermined role that it was designed for.
And you are quite wrong on your first point: 1. If i could fit everything I needed on my scout suit, I would not use the logi suit, this is true for other snipers, but not all snipers, as well.
I have no comment on the second.
Just because you are quite content with your fitting, does not change the fact that other people have concerns with the suit's balance.
Whoa whoa whoa. You can't design a suit around a single weapon. You certainly can't continue to think that way either. I mean heavies are better suited for sniping because a sniper gives their position away anyways so stealth isn't a factor. But they like to think that it is so they threw the scout a "weapon of choice" although it's completely not suited for scouts at the moment and probably wouldn't in the future.
No suit is meant to be something, it's just that their set up may favor roles over others. Artificers start with a remote repair tool, so they must not be supposed to equip nanites, hives, uplinks, and remote explosives right? |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
460
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Posted - 2013.03.01 07:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Adjust the Scout suit please...with a cherry on top. If you have future plans for this currently limited state please chirp up little Dev! It's an interesting and clean thread! |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
485
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Posted - 2013.03.04 00:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Well cloaks are all nice but that's not going to solve the suit. Just because it can have cloaking or whatever doesn't mean that someone is going to use it, so cloaking becomes a limiting factor making it a broken suit for those who want to use it in other ways, destroying in essence Sandbox. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
515
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Posted - 2013.03.05 20:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
Talos Alomar wrote:Ok, There are many valid points in this thread but the scout suit is good if you use it right. If you spec into scanning skills you can see through walls and slip around rather unnoticed.
I've also seen no mention of the type-2 scout suit. It has two equipment slots so you can repair and revive a heavy while using your great scan stats to spot targets for them, while having a fast shotgunner to flank targets while your newly revived and full health heavy keeps them busy.
I'm not saying you can't be effective with it, but number crunching and my experience says that if I was to go head to head in combat with myself, one as an assault suit one as a Scout (let's just say I'm just as good in both suits) the Assault would win hands down every match. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
515
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Posted - 2013.03.05 20:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
Professormohawk wrote:buff the shields is all i want. They actually have amazing shield regen |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
520
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Posted - 2013.03.06 07:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:You can run an equivalent type-II logi suit that exceeds a scout in all departments except hitbox size. A B-Series Logi shotgun outperforms the same build on a scout drastically. Unless there is new content incoming that will balance the equation, I really don't think this is fair to scout users. They can be so much fun, but the lack of feasible builds, and the steep SP curve for suvivability really kills any incentive to use them. Yeah it's the "being out performed by another suit" that's the issue here. My "student' Manti5 Toboggan rolls as a shotgun assault and does better than many shotgun scouts. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
523
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Posted - 2013.03.08 00:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:Indeed, the Scout dropsuit is broken. I think one of the reasons for that is the fact that, despite it's supposed electronic superiority, it has the lowest amount of CPU of any dropsuit.
That doesn't make much sense, now does it? No it does not boss, no it does not. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
525
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Posted - 2013.03.08 02:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
RHYTHMIK Designs wrote: Sorry to tell you but scouts were meant for cloaking. Just read the suit description, its basically already built into the suits.
cloaking is bunk because the stealth mechanisms in this game don't even work good. A heavy can walk up behind a basic suit and go unnoticed... |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
525
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Posted - 2013.03.08 04:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Talos Alomar wrote: Unless you've got a couple points into profile analysis and/or have a precision enhancer. Stealth and detection works just fine, you just have to invest a little bit into it.
I've yet to invest any SP into TACNET and scanners have only saved me once or twice. It's honestly not anything useful right now. Until they fix LoS vs Scanners then will it be worth it, but scanners kind of have wimpy range and even when I use them they don't pick up people sometimes...in heavy suits. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
530
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 00:02:00 -
[20] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:If a Heavy manages to "sneak up" on me when I'm playing Scout, it's because I screwed up. Elaborate on how it would be your fault? Sure it may be your fault for letting a heavy there in the first place, but having the heavy be invisible to radar mere meters behind you is due to slightly faulted mechanics.
I understand more from the new Dev Video Diary that the scout is Light Frame so that means less meat on the bones, I understand that, but paying more for less? That's messed. The fact that a sniper can have their reticule in the general vicinity of where I am and have me show up on Tacnet is what get's my goat. |
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Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
538
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Posted - 2013.03.10 02:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
Delirium Inferno wrote: 2) Add a weapon with an infrared scope, or make attachments part of the game and have that as an attachment.
God I hope not, that would make snipers even more of a pain. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
584
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Posted - 2013.03.15 06:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
Talos Alomar wrote:
Pretty much. I wouldn't say the scout suit is "broke", It's just not suited for the type of combat people use it for.
Lest of all it being pitted against geks with maxed sharpshooter and the broken complex damage mod stacked 3-4 deep, but that's another post.
They're broke in the sense that:
Input > Output
More SP and ISK into a lighter frame dropsuit that the cheaper one (Assault) can fill its roles nearly equally and with more HP and less cost.
That's the Broke Yo!
So Scouts need the CPU or module space to compete. Just saying that equal footing in terms of fitting capabilities with an Assault would make the Scout suit much more solid. I could understand a slightly reduced CPU in comparison to Assault if it had the same number of module space, so it couldn't be quite the tanker, but the fact that my A Series suit has the fitting capabilities of a Type I suit (in terms of module combinations, of course the greater CPU/PG of the A series would permit greater draw)
But the price is too steep to have both less HP, less CPU, and less modules for increased speed and only a 10% Profile Reduction. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
608
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Posted - 2013.03.19 23:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Holy Crap I think the scout got a buff!
I logged on for the Caldari Prime battles and:
My Radar was actually working withing reason! My scout was really fast!
Yet I wasn't very apparent on enemy radar (I assume) as I wasn't detected a whole lot.
This might work enough for me to actually invest in the Tac Net skills: Related note, when is the active scanner equipment returning? It's a tool actually worth while for a scout with the radar working as is. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
627
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Posted - 2013.03.20 06:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote: Pssh, hopefully when they get it to actually work. The Vehicle module is still in-game and despite people saying that it does, I have yet to successfully get it to work.
Even tested it on a lone heavy who was standing -ten meters away- from my dropship and turned it on, still couldn't pick up his chevron after three pulses.
The original one gave absolutely no indication that it was even being turned on, let alone whether or not it was effectively working.
They need to just remove that module entirely and give us Target Painters or something.
Next time I log back in I'll try and confirm that the radar was actually working. But it was like red dots left and right, and my shotgun scout seemed really fast. But again I will double back and make sure that these buffs are actually applicable OUTSIDE of the mercenary event. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
628
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Posted - 2013.03.20 06:31:00 -
[25] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
Do keep in mind that if another player on your team can sight a target they will appear for you as well. When testing the scanning system, it's best to do it in a completely controlled environment devoid of all life and preferably set us a corp battle with a friendly corporation.
Right. It just seems that the sheer quantity of red dots that was picked up compared to the number of blue dots nearby lead me to believe so. But I will sick my lab rats on the project. |
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