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Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
433
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Posted - 2013.02.23 01:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Read the OP's of these: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=552445#post552445 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=528143#post528143 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=477607#post477607 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=356436#post356436
Basically, when stacked against an Assault: Scout Suit: Less CPU Equal PG Less Modules Less Total HP (Type II has greater armor its assault counterpart) More Expensive [Scout=7600] [Assault=6800] More SP
The only benefit to a scout is marginally decreased profile and a definite increase in speed. When you spec into a logi, you are getting into something that is comparably balanced and more functional in its role than the scout for the same amount of SP.
So what I'm saying is that the price, SP and ISK is too high for scouts to be this weighed against them. I say a second high slot and more CPU/PG. |
Rainn Ender
Serenity Prime Kraken.
1
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Posted - 2013.02.23 01:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
give moar strafe i'll pay whatever it takes! |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
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Posted - 2013.02.23 01:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
What would your feelings be if CCP added an innate bonus to fitting a cloaking module on the scout dropsuit? Would that leave the problem solved, mitigated, or unchanged?
Cheers, Cross |
Rainn Ender
Serenity Prime Kraken.
1
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Posted - 2013.02.23 01:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:What would your feelings be if CCP added an innate bonus to fitting a cloaking module on the scout dropsuit? Would that leave the problem solved, mitigated, or unchanged?
Cheers, Cross
cloaking would be cool, turning from a red dot to a blue dot until you shoot or get shot would be epic turbo |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
433
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Posted - 2013.02.23 01:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:What would your feelings be if CCP added an innate bonus to fitting a cloaking module on the scout dropsuit? Would that leave the problem solved, mitigated, or unchanged? Cheers, Cross That would help a lot, but I figure that if any suit can do it (IF), then it wouldn't. |
Godin Thekiller
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
14
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Posted - 2013.02.23 01:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Cross Atu wrote:What would your feelings be if CCP added an innate bonus to fitting a cloaking module on the scout dropsuit? Would that leave the problem solved, mitigated, or unchanged? Cheers, Cross That would help a lot, but I figure that if any suit can do it (IF), then it wouldn't.
They will, but scouts will most likely will stay cloaked the longest. |
Jackof All-Trades
Bojo's School of the Trades
79
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Posted - 2013.02.23 02:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
It makes sense to make Scouts paper-thin, but I think reducing the CPU and module capability is a no-go. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
433
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Posted - 2013.02.23 02:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jackof All-Trades wrote:It makes sense to make Scouts paper-thin, but I think reducing the CPU and module capability is a no-go. precisely. I don't mind low HP, it's the lack of modules and fitting capabilities (CPU/PG) |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1594
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Posted - 2013.02.23 03:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
I don't know, I seem to be having no problem with the CPU/PG of my scout suit. But then again, I only fitted a nova knife which doesn't have much CPU/PG demands. |
Val'herik Dorn
CrimeWave Syndicate
264
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Posted - 2013.02.23 03:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
I started using the joy that is the scout shotgun the other day and have thus far concluded.
The scout suit itself is under powered as hell.
Low hp I get im a wet paper bag but the trade offs should be that im faster than everything... ALWAYS
my strafe speed is a joke for how much ehp I have and my ftgs are basically crap tastic.
Scout needs love almost as badly as missles.
Or a cloak... that would be amazing |
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Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
433
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Posted - 2013.02.23 04:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:I don't know, I seem to be having no problem with the CPU/PG of my scout suit. But then again, I only fitted a nova knife which doesn't have much CPU/PG demands. Yeah I don't either really but I have max combat engineering and circuitry...
But the problem here is that we're paying more ISK and SP for too little. Just give the overall suit a little fitting buff (not HP buff) |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
385
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Posted - 2013.02.23 04:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
Imo it should permanently move at or right below it's current sprint speed, at least something to make it just as useful |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
433
|
Posted - 2013.02.23 04:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:Imo it should permanently move at or right below it's current sprint speed, at least something to make it just as useful Basic movement speed at 7.84 m/s?...that sounds like a fun special testing weekend event
Devs in the future wrote:CCP is having tweak weekend, where we tweak a lot of stuff just for ***** and giggles |
Illuminaughty-696
Omega Risk Control Services
203
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Posted - 2013.02.23 06:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Right now I'm getting hit detection errors on scouts that jump a good ten to fifteen feet through the air like ninjas in an anime. Fix that (the hit detection, not the jumping - that's kind of cool) before you start adding more to them. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
433
|
Posted - 2013.02.23 08:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
Illuminaughty-696 wrote:Right now I'm getting hit detection errors on scouts that jump a good ten to fifteen feet through the air like ninjas in an anime. Fix that (the hit detection, not the jumping - that's kind of cool) before you start adding more to them. Really? Let's keep the scout suit unused so it does generate any feedback? Hitbox detection is a rare problem and it's only the most apparent on scouts because of their small hitbox. |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
125
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Posted - 2013.02.23 09:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Illuminaughty-696 wrote:Right now I'm getting hit detection errors on scouts that jump a good ten to fifteen feet through the air like ninjas in an anime. Fix that (the hit detection, not the jumping - that's kind of cool) before you start adding more to them. Really? Let's keep the scout suit unused so it does generate any feedback? Hitbox detection is a rare problem and it's only the most apparent on scouts because of their small hitbox.
I run a scout assault rifle build and hit detection is still whack on them. when using my assault suit build and go against scouts I notice hit problems too. They nerfed the speed of the game down a few builds ago to try and remedy the hit detection problems. Kinda worked.
I like how the scout suits work at the moment. I am looking forward to getting a type b. But to be honest scout suits are best once you get into advanced/ type A and you can fit shield extenders and armour on them. Though my prefered suits are a type 2/ b for the 2 equipment slots for remotes/ nanos/ droplinks etc build.
I cant see how extra CPU / PG would balance scouts? They shouldnt be able to carry loads of stuff or shield tank like an assault cause they are supposed to be light agile quick etc. |
Panther Alpha
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
44
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Posted - 2013.02.23 09:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
Scouts are already a pain in a** to deal with, specially when they using OP shotguns too. They don't need any extra tools to help them OP even more.
Or balance the shotgun first, and then give them a cloaking device. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
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Posted - 2013.02.23 10:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Scouts are already a pain in a** to deal with, specially when they using OP shotguns too. They don't need any extra tools to help them OP even more.
Or balance the shotgun first, and then give them a cloaking device.
Shotgun isn't OP, its crap at all ranges except for close range. With good evasion skills you can manage to avoid to kill a shotgun user before they can land that killing shot on you. Shotguns aren't exclusive to scouts, so not very relevant.
Scouts should have better fitting stats to make them worth specializing into. The advantages seem outweighed by the disadvantages. |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
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Posted - 2013.02.23 10:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
I've given up on the Scout suit ever getting re-balanced ever since the strafe speed/HP values on advanced/prototype getting nuked.
Seriously, Heavies and HMGs are just starting to make a comeback and already they're "looking into" them because too many people have red tampons over it.
Thereby, Scouts will -never- get rebalanced so long as we keep this same development team - which are really really REALLY bad about communicating with the community. I mean, come on, they can't even put down fifteen minutes for a dev blog, what makes you think they're going to collaborate a bunch of data to see if there's a legitimate issue with the dropsuits/weapons?
To top it off the Scout is supposedly "balanced" for features that aren't even in the ****ing game yet.
Now THATS intrinsic development. |
Jathniel
G I A N T
39
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Posted - 2013.02.23 11:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:I've given up on the Scout suit ever getting re-balanced ever since the strafe speed/HP values on advanced/prototype getting nuked.
Seriously, Heavies and HMGs are just starting to make a comeback and already they're "looking into" them because too many people have red tampons over it.
Thereby, Scouts will -never- get rebalanced so long as we keep this same development team - which are really really REALLY bad about communicating with the community. I mean, come on, they can't even put down fifteen minutes for a dev blog, what makes you think they're going to collaborate a bunch of data to see if there's a legitimate issue with the dropsuits/weapons?
To top it off the Scout is supposedly "balanced" for features that aren't even in the ****ing game yet.
Now THATS intrinsic development.
Damn dude, that's harsh. The devs DO provide a weekly post stating what they have reviewed... although more meat and potatoes would be nice, so to speak.
I'm working (not playing) as a logi sniper now, simply because it fills the role of a sniper better for me. I can fit a proto-rifle, gauged uplinks, gauged nanohives, triple dmg mods, some nades, and an armor repper... I can set myself and a fellow sniper up on separate perches with just my equipment alone, and STILL provide multiple spawn points and support for my crew.
Everything I salivated for with the proto-scout vk1, im getting right now (and more) on a logi A-series. Im not a sniper that will find myself in the thick-of-things, so i don't require scout speed. The scout suit is simply **** useless for my gameplay style compared to what you can get out of a logi currently.
Scouts can't get totally scan invisible, since all anyone has to do is scan or wave their crosshairs across the map to find snipers (instead of finding them visually), so they immediately fail at the "stealth" thing in that regard. The ONLY thing that can redeem the scout suit is the cloaking device... but if every other suit is going to get it too, AND every other suit has higher cpu/pg capacity... then again the scout suit would be rendered useless by comparison. I would simply install the cloak on my logi sniper.
Only the scout should have the cloaking device, and a GOOD cloaking device. No other class would suffer a penalty if discovered through cloak like a scout would. Discover a cloaked shield tanked assault? Oh well, Duvolle to face. Discover a cloaked heavy? Bless you, you just found Predator. HMG to face. Discover a cloaked logi? *Zelda item acquisition theme* Free heals! Come again real soon! OR [weapon of your choice] to face.
Discover a cloaked scout? With little to no defensive capacity he's finished. His survivability depends on not being found.
The scout needs more cpu/pg capacity, OR it's primary weapon [the sniper rifle] needs to have cpu/pg requirements reduced... and it needs to get the cloaking device exclusively.
...and everything else the OP listed. |
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Marc Rime
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
31
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Posted - 2013.02.23 14:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jathniel wrote:The scout needs more cpu/pg capacity, OR it's primary weapon [the sniper rifle] needs to have cpu/pg requirements reduced... and it needs to get the cloaking device exclusively. I use a scout suit, sniper is not my primary weapon. Also, most snipers I see don't use the scout suit.
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xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
125
|
Posted - 2013.02.23 14:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
Marc Rime wrote:Jathniel wrote:The scout needs more cpu/pg capacity, OR it's primary weapon [the sniper rifle] needs to have cpu/pg requirements reduced... and it needs to get the cloaking device exclusively. I use a scout suit, sniper is not my primary weapon. Also, most snipers I see don't use the scout suit.
side track. Yep, only suit to snipe in is with a heavy. take a hit/ warning shot and move. Weapons should have been suit/ class based - not the way done.
back to topic:
@Aeon Amadi how would you like it rebalanced then? |
Coleman Gray
Coalition Of Goverments
47
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Posted - 2013.02.23 16:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
scout are OP in the snese they literally can strafe faster than you the game allows you to turn |
Illuminaughty-696
Omega Risk Control Services
203
|
Posted - 2013.02.23 16:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Illuminaughty-696 wrote:Right now I'm getting hit detection errors on scouts that jump a good ten to fifteen feet through the air like ninjas in an anime. Fix that (the hit detection, not the jumping - that's kind of cool) before you start adding more to them. Really? Let's keep the scout suit unused so it does generate any feedback? Hitbox detection is a rare problem and it's only the most apparent on scouts because of their small hitbox.
Yes, really. This exact issues happened earlier in beta. People began to feel the scout suit was viable and good again and began speccing into it only to discover after the so-called fix to hit detection (of reducing speed on all suits, specifically strafing speed) that the scout suit was only any good because of the fact that it was highly prone to hit detection errors - of the full clip, point blank while stationary and not a single hit variety.
After the fix people realized scout suits suddenly sucked (again) and were upset at all the SP they had spent. So yes, fix the frikkin' hit detection, otherwise any changes to scout suit will never be done with a balanced perspective because hit detection errors will be forever muddying the data.
And finally, your point seems kind of . . . off. I see plenty of scout suits these days. Unused indeed.
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Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
433
|
Posted - 2013.02.23 17:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
It's not Codex at least...
The only scout suits you see are 'Dragonfly' because everyone and their mother has the merc pack.
It's not making sense to have cons outweigh pros on a more expensive and limited suit. They give me 2 low slots, great I can armor tank, but one High slot along with the lowest HP? Even if it had the same number of module slots and was fitted just like an assault, it'd still have less HP than the assault, by the same amount as if no modules had been added.
Stealth isn't a legitimate feature yet, so I'm not paying more for increased stealth, and my Sprint speed is the fastest because I have the lowest HP. So everything else is not being weighed against something, so it's "breaking" the suit. |
Illuminaughty-696
Omega Risk Control Services
203
|
Posted - 2013.02.23 18:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
Don't get me wrong, Bojo, I used to play scout exclusively, as my avatar hints; yes they mostly suck right now, as you suggest. A good, skilled player can do okay with them, but they need addressing -- so does hit detection, though. I don't want to see invincible scouts again because CCP can't fix hit detection even after six months (heck, it was probably a lot longer ago than that).
I still remember running a scout with an AR and taking down Assaults, Heavies, everything that came my way in a stand up, head-to-head fight. I do NOT want to see that again.
Edit: And yep, when the heck are we going to see scouts that actually stealth? Come on CCP. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
433
|
Posted - 2013.02.23 21:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
Illuminaughty-696 wrote:Don't get me wrong, Bojo, I used to play scout exclusively, as my avatar hints; yes they mostly suck right now, as you suggest. A good, skilled player can do okay with them, but they need addressing -- so does hit detection, though. I don't want to see invincible scouts again because CCP can't fix hit detection even after six months (heck, it was probably a lot longer ago than that).
I still remember running a scout with an AR and taking down Assaults, Heavies, everything that came my way in a stand up, head-to-head fight. I do NOT want to see that again.
Edit: And yep, when the heck are we going to see scouts that actually stealth? Come on CCP. Alright, at least you agree that scouts are broke |
Jathniel
G I A N T
39
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Posted - 2013.02.24 00:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
Marc Rime wrote:I use a scout suit, sniper is not my primary weapon. Good for you.
Marc Rime wrote:Also, most snipers I see don't use the scout suit.
Very astute. I'm sorry my post was a bit long-winded for you. A short attention span is a terrible thing, and you clearly understand this.
Illuminaughty-696 wrote:when the heck are we going to see scouts that actually stealth? Come on CCP.
THIS^
Too many people hate being killed stealthily, especially by snipers. Doubt, we'll ever see a good solid implementation of stealth. But we can hope!
Coleman Gray wrote:scout are OP in the snese they literally can strafe faster than you the game allows you to turn
The scout's only current advantage is mobility; he's supposed to move faster than you in every way. How is it possibly balanced to have someone in a heavy or assault suit, strafe and bunny hop as fast as a scout? It's meant to exploit your inability to turn fast enough or aim quick enough.
xAckie wrote:side track. Yep, only suit to snipe in is with a heavy. take a hit/ warning shot and move. Weapons should have been suit/ class based - not the way done.
Generally, though, the intended primary weapon for the Scout IS the sniper rifle. [Arbiter] Stealth recon (SCOUT-ing) and precision sniping. Many, but not all, more experienced snipers are NOT using the scout suit for this purpose anymore. Why? You stand out like a sore thumb because of a lack of any true stealth capacity with the scout suit, and IN a scout suit you are most likely to get 1 shot by other snipers.
Just as you said, with every other suit, you can get hit, pull back for a moment, recover, reposition yourself, etc. You are far less likely to do that in a scout suit, especially if the enemy sniper is using that Charge Sniper Rifle (which has no business being in the Standard weapon department). Other snipers are going heavy or using logi. |
Grief PK
An Eye For An Eye AN EYE F0R AN EYE
13
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Posted - 2013.02.24 01:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
I didn't read this whole thread, but I play 100% scout. I think of scout in terms of Team Fortress.
If a scout and a heavy are toe to toe. There is no way the scout could kill the heavy, BUT he can run circles around him and the Heavy would not be able to turn fast enough to catch him. I feel like this is a good baseline for the expectations of the scout.
I do think a cloaking apparatus might be interesting. But really to me its agility thats missing not necessarily speed. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
433
|
Posted - 2013.02.24 20:08:00 -
[30] - Quote
Alright so I specced into A Series and it's better but the fact that all it has over a Type I Assault suit is PG/CPU is sort of a downgrade to Scouts. I mean, it takes that much SP to get a less-than-Type I Assault suit? Come on.... |
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