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[Veteran_Osiris Greywolf]
0
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Posted - 2012.06.23 18:19:00 -
[241] - Quote
Vetis Rex wrote:Osiris Greywolf wrote:Renzo kuken wrote:Lastwishez wrote:All I have to say is this. If KB/M control has a big advantage over my DS3, I won't be playing this game nor will my 50 buddies. Shadow run on Xbox and PC had KB/M controls and the KB/M users had a significant advantage.
I think you guys should adapt to a controller, but I will wait and see. dont let the door hit ya where the dog should have bit ya Welcome to New Eden, Adapt or die I lol if you are one of the ones whining for Kb/m, merely from the irony, and don't worry, the game will probably die if they include Kb/m so I guess that makes the adaptability rather pointless. The pragmatic truth is that kuken is right. CCP will alienate a large share of the market once people realise Kb\m support is in the game while only drawing in a marginal few, it makes no business or gameplay sense to me whatsoever as to why they would want it in the first place. ccp really should do some market research into kb/m before applying them to find out how its going to A effect balance and B effect market appeal
I agree, if they haven't done it already, and I'd like to see a few more studies on Kb/m vs. controller, just to either prove or refute the consensus. |
[Veteran_Beyald]
0
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Posted - 2012.06.23 19:08:00 -
[242] - Quote
Yes, I'm all up for KB + M. Now, I know there are loads of hardcore console shooter fans out there who are rightly proud of their pad skills, but let me run something by you all.. I sucked when I started using the PS3 controller. no biggie - it's a new skill for me, so I expected to, but I'm picking it up pretty well, and starting to take names. What I didn't anticipate is the way that situational awareness suffers using the console controller - as you can't glance around as fast as a human could move his head and eyes, your visual awareness cone narrows down in front of you. With mouse you could glance round more freely like a soldier on a battlefield might. Your awareness (potentially) improves, you get to admire the scenery more, and I'd argue that you feel more present and involved in the game world, so the experience becomes more immersive as a result.
Also, and this is a personal observation, the console controller encourages people to dance and caper 'round like a demented ballerina. Not quite what I'd expected of an immortal super-soldier. some means of effectively using cover has a more military feel to it than hopping from foot to foot.
So, KB/M, and move controller, it's been said. I'm looking forward to feeling more present on the battlefield! |
[Veteran_Venix]
0
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Posted - 2012.06.23 19:37:00 -
[243] - Quote
Where do we sign against KB/M support? |
[Veteran_Septem Mortuus]
0
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Posted - 2012.06.25 06:11:00 -
[244] - Quote
It's a thorny issue.
From MY perspective, I want KBM as fast as possible. Like a lot of us PC gamers, I'm getting totally owned with the PS3 controller (I bought the PS3 mainly for GT 5 and use the steering wheel, have barely touched the controller at all) .
I personally can't wait to start romping like I do in PC FPS games (I've gone from 20/2 and winning to 2/10 and losing simply from the switch from KBM to DS3. Even I'm laughing at myself as my aim wanders off into the clouds or I end up facing the wrong way while you're shooting me in the head). And it's pretty obvious in-game as to who's an ex-MAG or regular PS3 gamer and who's come across from EvE or PC.
Yes, I have trouble hitting the broadside of a barn with the DS3, but I could probably pick your nose from the other side of the map with a pistol on KBM - and a lot of PC gamers will agree with me on that. I think the killboards etc are going to look VERY different once support is enabled. (And we'll suddenly have a LOT of snipers too....)
But, From a bigger perspective it smells like a bad idea, as several have noted, every contest between controller and KBM has been decisive in favour of KBM, and every game that has mixed the two has died (Shadowrun anyone?).
So from the perspective of someone who wants Dust to have a long and happy life I'm wondering if it might not be better for us PC gamers to suck up being sucky for a while as we re-learn the controls rather than get exactly what we want, but lose the game because of it. |
[Veteran_Renzo kuken]
0
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Posted - 2012.06.25 06:11:00 -
[245] - Quote
Osiris Greywolf wrote:Renzo kuken wrote:Lastwishez wrote:All I have to say is this. If KB/M control has a big advantage over my DS3, I won't be playing this game nor will my 50 buddies. Shadow run on Xbox and PC had KB/M controls and the KB/M users had a significant advantage.
I think you guys should adapt to a controller, but I will wait and see. dont let the door hit ya where the dog should have bit ya Welcome to New Eden, Adapt or die I lol if you are one of the ones whining for Kb/m, merely from the irony, and don't worry, the game will probably die if they include Kb/m so I guess that makes the adaptability rather pointless. The pragmatic truth is that kuken is right. CCP will alienate a large share of the market once people realise Kb\m support is in the game while only drawing in a marginal few, it makes no business or gameplay sense to me whatsoever as to why they would want it in the first place.
nope im not whining about the KB/M issue at all
i will be using both :) |
[Veteran_AprilDeath]
0
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Posted - 2012.06.25 08:06:00 -
[246] - Quote
Short and sweet.. I use a XIM3 on my PS, this is a KB/M adaptor for the xbox360 but it works on the PS with use off an adaptor.. Why? motorbike accident, damaged hand.. control pad = NO.
anyway.. i tried using this last night but i cannot move / aim..
I tried connecting the XBOX control pad directly to the convertor (its used for authentication) but the movment / aim / button press's are all crazy.
Only movement with the ps controller is fluid and smooth. I realise this is in beta but i have never had this issue with any other beta ive been involved in.
ps. im not moaning that it doesnt work, just wondering why its like this.
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[Veteran_Youknowutimsayin]
0
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Posted - 2012.06.25 19:25:00 -
[247] - Quote
Why not both? |
[Veteran_FauxReal]
0
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Posted - 2012.06.25 19:49:00 -
[248] - Quote
Came to this thread since it had a GM tag and I thought I might learn some super cool news.
Got trolled by CCP GM.
Left empty handed.
Give me KBM already. |
[Veteran_System Ghost]
0
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Posted - 2012.06.25 19:53:00 -
[249] - Quote
FauxReal wrote:Came to this thread since it had a GM tag and I thought I might learn some super cool news. Got trolled by CCP GM. Left empty handed. Give me KBM already.
That is not troll, that is CCP. Get use to it :P
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[Veteran_Adamantium Claws]
0
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Posted - 2012.06.25 20:06:00 -
[250] - Quote
this is a PS3 game!!!!!!!! NOT a PC game!!!!!!!!!!!
CCP, you will create an UnBALANCED advantage for the keyboard bs users. |
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[Veteran_Drake Lyons]
0
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Posted - 2012.06.25 20:10:00 -
[251] - Quote
Adamantium Claws wrote:this is a PS3 game!!!!!!!! NOT a PC game!!!!!!!!!!! CCP, you will create an UnBALANCED advantage for the keyboard bs users.
We'll see. It's the whole point of a beta. How many other console FPS games allow controllers, motion capture, and KBM? Or even just controllers and KBM? I'm looking for precedent. |
10mg PLUMBUM
Academy Inferno
73
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Posted - 2012.06.27 19:30:00 -
[252] - Quote
Forums Veteran wrote:I've been using the splitflish - never been much for joystick-aiming myself. I hope the mouse implementation improves... right now with the splitfish it is crap, and I know it can be better - used it for my entire MAG career. I can aim better with the right analog atm.
AS for now after update, is it better? |
Xaero 514
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
324
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Posted - 2012.06.27 20:05:00 -
[253] - Quote
I used to be a handy PC player, but I've been on consoles the last 6 years. When I first became a console player I hoped for keyboard & mouse, but those thoughts eventually went away. I really dislike the DS3 for FPS games. I don't like the sticks which I think are too slack, but I really hate the spongy L2 & R2.
I have an XCM Cross Battle Adapter 2.0 that allows me to use an xbox 360 contoller on my PS3. It works brilliantly with every game I've ever played except DUST 514. This has now got me thinking about going KB/M again. I appreciate that it could create a balance issue, but with few options outside of using a DS3 there maybe no option for some players. Move I believe is currently not working, but I guess if it was that would also create an imbalance if it was working.
If CCP fix my Cross Battle Adapter DS3 users will be spared from my superior KB/M skills, but if they don't it'll be 'tears and teabags' for some I'm affraid. |
Oryx Offerton
Doomheim
61
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Posted - 2012.06.27 20:26:00 -
[254] - Quote
I'll support this, but only because I want the PC players from EVE to be happy because I hate console wars and not having keyboard and mouse would just fuel a PC vs. PS3 war. |
Rorek IronBlood
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
746
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Posted - 2012.06.27 21:42:00 -
[255] - Quote
You know what this thread proved? That no matter what PC enthusiast say about themselves they will still be just as childish as the console players they so seemingly hate on. All I read for near three pages was the same old crap from wannabe master race/PC Elitist. It's getting old. Grow up. If you cannot adapt to the controller just admit it. Acting like an e-thug on the net and putting other's down for one reason to another only makes you look like a hypocrite, and a fool.
Simply put.. Grow up. If you are just so good you'd just shut-up, adapt, and move on. You know instead of acting a fool. |
Raynor Ragna
266
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Posted - 2012.06.27 22:00:00 -
[256] - Quote
+1 to KBM support. either decision they make, they'll be alienating some market.
Without KBM it alienates every PC gamer. With KBM it alienates a small percentage of the PS3 market (Which is only the few who can't stand the though of playing against PC gamers).
It seems like an obvious decision to make. Plus it gives EVERYONE the option of using their KBM on the game. Since everyone here has a computer, everyone can use it. |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
811
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Posted - 2012.06.27 22:08:00 -
[257] - Quote
Forums Veteran wrote:Yes, I'm all up for KB + M. Now, I know there are loads of hardcore console shooter fans out there who are rightly proud of their pad skills, but let me run something by you all.. I sucked when I started using the PS3 controller. no biggie - it's a new skill for me, so I expected to, but I'm picking it up pretty well, and starting to take names. What I didn't anticipate is the way that situational awareness suffers using the console controller - as you can't glance around as fast as a human could move his head and eyes, your visual awareness cone narrows down in front of you. With mouse you could glance round more freely like a soldier on a battlefield might. Your awareness (potentially) improves, you get to admire the scenery more, and I'd argue that you feel more present and involved in the game world, so the experience becomes more immersive as a result.
this is completely subjective, the overly accurate and un ergonomic feel of KBM completely ruins immersion for me. Always has, always will. Again, totally subjective.
Quote: Also, and this is a personal observation, the console controller encourages people to dance and caper 'round like a demented ballerina. Not quite what I'd expected of an immortal super-soldier. some means of effectively using cover has a more military feel to it than hopping from foot to foot.
And this is exactly backwards. Compare any PC version to Console version and you will see PC ALWAYS has more twitchy unrealistic movement. It has everything to do with the clunky nature of movement based off of WASD style control and the point and click aiming. With WASD it becomes super simple to dance and wobble about since you can immediately change directions with the ON/OFF nature of directional movement.
Quote: So, KB/M, and move controller, it's been said. I'm looking forward to feeling more present on the battlefield!
.. and ive still got hope that CCP will do a good job of nerfing the KBM easy mode when it's implemented, but I'm sure even if they do that it will just lead to more complaining. It's a lose/lose it seems.
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Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
811
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Posted - 2012.06.27 22:15:00 -
[258] - Quote
Raynor Ragna wrote:+1 to KBM support. either decision they make, they'll be alienating some market.
Without KBM it alienates every PC gamer. With KBM it alienates a small percentage of the PS3 market (Which is only the few who can't stand the though of playing against PC gamers).
It seems like an obvious decision to make. Plus it gives EVERYONE the option of using their KBM on the game. Since everyone here has a computer, everyone can use it.
The problem isnt "playing against PC gamers" the problem is that KBM is extremely difficult to balance against a controller. It's just a simpler and more precise control scheme, and one that many folks dont get any enjoyment out of using.
and your premise that catering to PC players over PS3 players on a PS3 game is the obvious choice is just silly.
Also, not everyone here has a keyboard and mouse they could use for this purpose. I don't. I have a laptop and a tablet.
Let's all hope they get this right and none of this matters |
Lilianna Sentinel
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
295
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Posted - 2012.06.27 22:26:00 -
[259] - Quote
+1 for KBM support.
You don't take out steering wheel support in racing games because it is unfair to pad users and you don't take out arcade sticks in fighting games because it is unfair to pad users.
So don't take out the best control method for FPS games.
Given my time in this game where precision is an absolute necessity in some cases, I say that KBM support must also come with it.
What I especially don't get is how pad users will always cry that it is unfair to pad users, but they think it is totally okay to be unfair to KBM users. |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
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Posted - 2012.06.27 23:25:00 -
[260] - Quote
Yeah, sorry, but as much as it'd be nice to keep things as fair as can be, being able to play a FPS game where the main obstacle isn't the control input would be such a nice change that I have to give my support for keyboard and mouse. As much as I like certain games on my PS3, FPS games are just not something a controller will ever integrate with better than keyboard and mouse. |
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Gurgintius
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2012.06.27 23:36:00 -
[261] - Quote
Now the Heavy/HMG has been wrecked, i'm relying on KBM support to get me back in the game. |
bitcloudrzr
4
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Posted - 2012.06.27 23:51:00 -
[262] - Quote
I went from PC only, to PS3 only for gaming. Resistance 1 basically taught me how to use a controller and I know what you guys are going through. Just practice and you will get it, that and the game being patched. If you keep fighting with it and put up a bad attitude when you use it, of course nothing is going to change.
If you guys really need assistance, I use something called a KontrolFreek. Attachment for the right analog stick that gives you a much better turn radius. |
Fatmanpro
Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire
251
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Posted - 2012.06.27 23:52:00 -
[263] - Quote
"Without KBM it alienates every PC gamer."
They already did that releasing it on the PS3 did they not ?
If EVE PC players are the majority when the game is released the game will have flopped
Dust needs console gamers more than EVE players simply cos there is more of them
Upsetting the majority to please the minority is bad business |
Turkatron Montag
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.06.28 00:23:00 -
[264] - Quote
Meh, I think console players are scared because their "niche" customization that dominates everyone with a controller will be put to the test.
K & M offers pure skill to overcome any obstacle. Not seeing who can break dance fight the fastest when you come across an enemy. |
Lilianna Sentinel
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
295
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Posted - 2012.06.28 00:34:00 -
[265] - Quote
bitcloudrzr wrote:I went from PC only, to PS3 only for gaming. Resistance 1 basically taught me how to use a controller and I know what you guys are going through. Just practice and you will get it, that and the game being patched. If you keep fighting with it and put up a bad attitude when you use it, of course nothing is going to change.
If you guys really need assistance, I use something called a KontrolFreek. Attachment for the right analog stick that gives you a much better turn radius.
I AM used to using a gamepad. I am consistently among the top players in many console FPS titles.
But I cannot deny that KBM would make this game much better.
It's simply a much better control scheme and leaving it out would be horrible for this title. |
Fatmanpro
Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire
251
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Posted - 2012.06.28 00:35:00 -
[266] - Quote
Turkatron Montag wrote:Meh, I think console players are scared
And the game needs those "scared console players" or it will flop
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Lilianna Sentinel
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
295
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Posted - 2012.06.28 00:36:00 -
[267] - Quote
Fatmanpro wrote:Turkatron Montag wrote:Meh, I think console players are scared
And the game needs those "scared console players" or it will flop
Those that don't care enough to get a keyboard and mouse won't care enough to notice. |
bitcloudrzr
4
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Posted - 2012.06.28 00:42:00 -
[268] - Quote
Lilianna Sentinel wrote:bitcloudrzr wrote:I went from PC only, to PS3 only for gaming. Resistance 1 basically taught me how to use a controller and I know what you guys are going through. Just practice and you will get it, that and the game being patched. If you keep fighting with it and put up a bad attitude when you use it, of course nothing is going to change.
If you guys really need assistance, I use something called a KontrolFreek. Attachment for the right analog stick that gives you a much better turn radius. I AM used to using a gamepad. I am consistently among the top players in many console FPS titles. But I cannot deny that KBM would make this game much better. It's simply a much better control scheme and leaving it out would be horrible for this title.
No one is arguing that it isn't a better control method(I'm not), but if it breaks balance, I'd rather leave it out. If it is getting nerfed to the point that there is no difference, than its a useless addition. Console games got along fine without kb/m and will be fine without it. Everyone seems to be so wrapped up in control schemes, when it's the game polish that will make more of a difference anyway.
Turkatron Montag wrote:Meh, I think console players are scared because their "niche" customization that dominates everyone with a controller will be put to the test.
K & M offers pure skill to overcome any obstacle. Not seeing who can break dance fight the fastest when you come across an enemy.
Skill isn't determined by what kind of controller you use. |
Fatmanpro
Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire
251
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Posted - 2012.06.28 00:47:00 -
[269] - Quote
Lilianna Sentinel wrote:Fatmanpro wrote:Turkatron Montag wrote:Meh, I think console players are scared
And the game needs those "scared console players" or it will flop Those that don't care enough to get a keyboard and mouse won't care enough to notice.
They will know about it because very few console games have it
There's good reasons for this |
Lilianna Sentinel
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
295
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Posted - 2012.06.28 00:49:00 -
[270] - Quote
Quote:No one is arguing that it isn't a better control method(I'm not), but if it breaks balance, I'd rather leave it out. If it is getting nerfed to the point that there is no difference, than its a useless addition. Console games got along fine without kb/m and will be fine without it. Everyone seems to be so wrapped up in control schemes, when it's the game polish that will make more of a difference anyway.
My argument is that, like MAG, Dust 514 is a PC FPS in console FPS clothing.
Would gamepad players be outstripped by KBM players? Yes. But only because it would benefit from it that much.
Though, I think it is a little late for the different control schemes being better than one another since Move support was added. And that is far more expensive than KBM is. |
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