It's possible to take that into account (KDR or WP/s stats partitioned by weapon). I'm fairly certain Rattati has the chops to consider that, given his background.

yes i believe he sepatated the stats so he knows by weapon, and that was part of the issue.

if the small number of scrambler rifle users at this moment are in fact simply the +1.5 to +2 sigma users for the average rifle, as the <+1.5 sigma users moved to the other rifles because of ease of use, then by definition the performance of the SCR on average is better than the performance of the other rifles because the average player using it is better than the average player using the other rifles.

depending on the relationship of players to performance i was trying to deduce if in fact that could account for some of the variance he is seeing, and if so how much so as to get us a better idea of the WEAPONS performance component versus player.

It may be nothing but i have a sneaking suspicion that 90% of the SCR users out there are like me and have been using it since it came out through thick and thin, and know it's ins and outs, and have prof V, amarr assault V so the data gets skewed by the player skill / familiarity with weapon / depth of specialization over the average rifle, where a much larger fraction of the users are newer players with less familiarity /

skill points

In short you entire argument is based upon circumstantial evidence and made up opinions, your vested intrest in the weapon is clearly visible and you prodice no valid reason for the ScR being allowed to perform at it's curent effectiveness.

@Rattati:
[...]

3. Oversampling assist. Something else I doubt is hotfix material, but to prevent rampant oversampling on low RoF weapons, would it be possible to 'save' an input so that the weapon fires immediately after the interval anyway?

Example:
Let's say you have a weapon with a 0.20s fire delay. First, you fire once. Then, after a 0.15s delay, you push the trigger again.
Presently, it seems that it will not fire a second shot. Ideally, it should remember the input and fire after the full 0.20s delay.

Add a sticky for ScR discussion. - Thank you for the sticky Rattati o7

I don't have the patience or willpower to create a whole post about it but I can definitely answer any data gathering questions you have and hopefully start a discussion

My credentials:

- User of the Amarr Assault and ScR since it was introduced in Uprising 1.0 has been my main suit until i had enough SP to max out my cores before eventually getting 4 other suits (Amarr Sentinel, Gal Scout, Min Scout and Cal Scout) at around 55m SP currently (open beta vet)

- Uses Amarr Assault in Planetary Conquest constantly, more so than any other person I know who plays the game competitively, if there was one I would know but there are few names and especially fewer at this point in time

- I know plenty of dedicated Amarr Assault users who I believe will come to discuss the weapon with you if I ask them to, I'm sure there are plenty who will contribute as well



I know the weapon is pretty goddamn good in Public Contracts but there are more factors in play in terms of that fact than the weapon or suit itself, if you balance for pub games it will kill the weapon competitively and this goes for every weapon. I highly suggest you read and consider this heavily and start this discussion.

If it is balance you are seeking then lets try to find a middle ground where the weapon can coexist nicely in Pub games yet not become worthless compared to other weapons competitively. Stop the vicious Nerf/Buff cycle and start balancing properly, let us try and help.

Im not trolling, you are being reactionary.

I would just lower the RoF to 530-580, I would also ask for a strong shotgun nerf and a RoF reduction for HMG to 2000.

Funny, I just did a one-minute drill spamming the trigger of a mouse (easier than a controller) at the rate I pull the trigger in DUST while aiming.

292 clicks, approximately 5 clicks/shots per second.

HOW is dropping the scram below 500 "Too much of a nerf?"

Unless you're gonna lose your autofire advantage. In which case...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Did the same. 489 shots/clicks/whatever. That's how many times I can click a mouse in a minute, I know I can do it faster on a DS3, probably 520-540.

I easily exceed 375 RpM just casually shooting. When I REALLY get into it, I'm sure I get over 500.

Just because you can't do it...

Here is a video covering quite a bit of what is being talked about here. It turned into a TAC vs SCR video showing the difference in the two.

Disclaimer: I am an SCR user. Have been since it released. I'm also a simi auto rifle user in other FPS games. It's my preferred play style there. The only reason I am not an Amarr proto is because I didn't want to get used to the extra rounds. Using the rifle and not overheating is as much about feeling as it is counting.

Things covered in this comentary video:


-Stats, Cost, and Skill of the TAC vs the SCR.
-TAC in action showing it shining in Optimal and falling on it's ass in <30 meters (Some slowmo comparison)
-SCR in action showing it shining in all ranges (Also with slow motion comparison)
-Outside of game video showing both riflers firing at a near consistent 480 rounds per min using a metronome set at 120bpm with 16th note subdivisions
-Slow motion of the TAC misfiring while well under 500 RPM (Bug?) and what I fear would happen if the ROF gets lowered to much on the SCR
-EXTREME dispersion difference in both hip fire and ADS between the two (side by side using a commando firing at a wall)
-A bad ass drummer in the background. (seriously, this dude is remarkable)

I'm going to post this in GD as well, but this seems to be the place for both us SCR lovers and the haters.

And for all those claiming that more than 6 trigger pulls per second controlled is not possible, wtf is wrong with you? Eat some Wheaties or something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuOXdZfHeN8&feature=youtu.be

Yeah and each time i bring out the CR and RR coment are better, you completely ignore them and this is from actually using all 3 of them at lvl V, all skills.

I don't need to, if you like me to give you my opinion, the CR has a net gain profile and the RR has the longest range of any rifle, they are going to be very proficient, but considering the CR and RR are not considered to be over performing, it's nothing more than opinion.

I have no illusions as to what CCP is gonna do with the weapon, i have both CR, RR and SCR at lvl 5; ill just wipe the smile of peoples faces with both the other weapons at my disposal, but on a more serious not i have not played Dust in like 4-6 months seriously, at best ive hopped into the game on a friday night to run 3-4 games and call it quits.
What's your problem then? Why didn't you use them in the first place?

But, yes i do care about the weapon as it has been a fabulous companion and piece of weaponry when everyone was throwing Brick-Tanked Slayerlogi suits at me.
Those days are gone, it's time for it to be tonned down.

though i gotta ask, your replies all sound like you are very very b*tthurt from being shot by it and want nothing more then nerf it to the ground, so witch weapon do you roll with?
The better question would which don't I run with, to which the answer is the Forge Gun. No butthurt, just showing the math, you can see it a mile off, it sticks out like a aore thumb.

But like i said multiple times in this thread, witch you also ignore, FIX TURBO CONTROLLER ABUSE first, that will fix most of the issue this gun is facing right now, Scrub + AutoFire + 3x DamMod = InstaGib, if he can hit his target, especially on Militia Suits. Fix that and 50% of the problem goes away overnight.
Which Rattati has already explained requires a patch, currently out of the question, so the only, other option is the ROF, which brings into question exactly what DPS it should be achieving.

But like i said, i only play when i got an itch to scratch, next time ill play regularly again will be on Legion.

-The higher efficiency you talk about, does that take into the account that the weapon can overheat, because quite frankly if say an assault rifle deals 450 damage per second while it has a clip that can maintain this damage for 6 seconds and a SCR would deal 450 damage per second but can do this for 2 seconds, then what is its overheat purpose ? kick yourself to the floor while yer assaulting someone?

-the rof change will just severly hit None-turbo users as we now might have overlap in shots, turbo controller users are not gonna be affected as they do not need to think much when firing and just get the max dps at all times, where fingers are quite allot less perfect and can mess up.


I would propose to Fix the Turbo controller issue first, then see if any of the rifles, you say that more are used with Turbo, then why not FIX that first, level the playing field and then balance the weapons ?

It seems a bit counter productive to fix and lower rof on weapons based on turbo controller use, wouldnt it be easier to fox turbo abuse and then see how all the weapons work ?

You are never going to balance the weapons when 1 person gets shot with turbo and the other not, but balance it as if it wasn't used with turbo, afterwards, the turbo guy will still have the same advantage as before.

Fix the turbo controller issue first, then see where the weapons are at, i bet there won"t be allot of scramblers left.

there isnt really a difference in pub vs pc except more people are proto at PC and the ScR remains the same

To be fair, when I bust out my Templar gear, I find most of the time (but not always) I am the only one the map using a LR or SCR. They are really not that popular weapon systems in DUST at all.
I do have skills to use proto weapons n have the holy suit to level 5 btw.

It seems to be Heavies with HMGs, RR`s and CR`s, some AR`s, some scattering of sidearms, the odd plasma cannon n forge gun, very few LR`s and SCR`s, barely anyone using mass driver and the same for flaylock.