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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
ratamaq doc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
812
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Posted - 2014.09.02 22:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
Here is a video covering quite a bit of what is being talked about here. It turned into a TAC vs SCR video showing the difference in the two.
Disclaimer: I am an SCR user. Have been since it released. I'm also a simi auto rifle user in other FPS games. It's my preferred play style there. The only reason I am not an Amarr proto is because I didn't want to get used to the extra rounds. Using the rifle and not overheating is as much about feeling as it is counting.
Things covered in this comentary video:
-Stats, Cost, and Skill of the TAC vs the SCR. -TAC in action showing it shining in Optimal and falling on it's ass in <30 meters (Some slowmo comparison) -SCR in action showing it shining in all ranges (Also with slow motion comparison) -Outside of game video showing both riflers firing at a near consistent 480 rounds per min using a metronome set at 120bpm with 16th note subdivisions -Slow motion of the TAC misfiring while well under 500 RPM (Bug?) and what I fear would happen if the ROF gets lowered to much on the SCR -EXTREME dispersion difference in both hip fire and ADS between the two (side by side using a commando firing at a wall) -A bad ass drummer in the background. (seriously, this dude is remarkable)
I'm going to post this in GD as well, but this seems to be the place for both us SCR lovers and the haters.
And for all those claiming that more than 6 trigger pulls per second controlled is not possible, wtf is wrong with you? Eat some Wheaties or something.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuOXdZfHeN8&feature=youtu.be
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ratamaq doc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
824
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Posted - 2014.09.03 11:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Watching the TAR vs Scrambler video and poring over the rifle data, we propose these small tweaks. In most cases, the Gallente rifle family just has overall the worst comparative kick and dispersion so we want to bring them closer to the rest of the rifles.
Bear in mind that these are very small tweaks except for the Gallente ones that are heavily underperforming
Reduce Hipfire dispersion of Tactical Assault Rifle (TAR) to be closer to the Scrambler Rifle (considerable)
Reduce Hipfire Kick of TAR to be closer to Scrambler Rifle (considerable)
Increase Hipfire Kick of Scrambler Rifle to be closer to TAR (tiny)
Reduce Hipfire Kick of Gallente Assault rifle (tiny)
Reduce Hipfire Kick of Gallente Burst Assault Rifles (tiny)
Reduce Zoomed Dispersion of Gallente Breach Rifles (considerable)
Set ROF of both Scrambler and TAR to 600
Increase Hipfire Kick of Rail Rifles on second or more rapid consecutive shot, so full auto will be less accurate in CQC (some)
There are no tweaks for the Assault Scrambler as it may be suffering from Armor tanking environment, unless there is a specific reason you can find, there is nothing in the stats that says it should be.
Sweat, thanks for watching! I hope the increase to 600 rpm on the TAC fixes the misfire issue I tried to point out. The rest of the changes look good as well. I'll do a follow up video if these changes are made to compare.
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ratamaq doc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
825
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Posted - 2014.09.03 11:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:How does this help the performance of the standard gallente assault rifle besides a little hipfire kick? That's not going to make the primary variant stop underperforming. Many players swear by the Assault Rifle actually being ok, don't want to do too many things at once. Any splendid ideas? We don't want to do damage changes nor range for the time being. What do you think is the major drawback in the handling of the AR?
Maybe a slight RoF increase? I haven't really played with the AR much in the recent past, but it seems like the assault variants of each of the other rifles perform better, where that is not the case with all other variants. RR > Breach AR, SCR > TAC, CR > Burst. If it should be that way than the GEK and Duvalle should out perform the ASCR, ACR, and ARR in CQC heavily and still be viable at medium to mid-long ranges.
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ratamaq doc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
825
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Posted - 2014.09.03 11:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:ratamaq doc wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Watching the TAR vs Scrambler video and poring over the rifle data, we propose these small tweaks. In most cases, the Gallente rifle family just has overall the worst comparative kick and dispersion so we want to bring them closer to the rest of the rifles.
Bear in mind that these are very small tweaks except for the Gallente ones that are heavily underperforming
Reduce Hipfire dispersion of Tactical Assault Rifle (TAR) to be closer to the Scrambler Rifle (considerable)
Reduce Hipfire Kick of TAR to be closer to Scrambler Rifle (considerable)
Increase Hipfire Kick of Scrambler Rifle to be closer to TAR (tiny)
Reduce Hipfire Kick of Gallente Assault rifle (tiny)
Reduce Hipfire Kick of Gallente Burst Assault Rifles (tiny)
Reduce Zoomed Dispersion of Gallente Breach Rifles (considerable)
Set ROF of both Scrambler and TAR to 600
Increase Hipfire Kick of Rail Rifles on second or more rapid consecutive shot, so full auto will be less accurate in CQC (some)
There are no tweaks for the Assault Scrambler as it may be suffering from Armor tanking environment, unless there is a specific reason you can find, there is nothing in the stats that says it should be. Sweat, thanks for watching! I hope the increase to 600 rpm on the TAC fixes the misfire issue I tried to point out. The rest of the changes look good as well. I'll do a follow up video if these changes are made to compare. If you are offering, why not a Rail Rifle vs Breach AR comparison, and a Burst Rifle to Combat Rifle, and the crowning achievement, Assault Rifles vs each other. I would love to see what a veteran player thinks of each of these comparisons. .
0.0 that will take some time to capture that much actual game footage, plus I'd have to actually drop skills past level 1 into the RR. >.<. I'll see what I can do, but it won't be today. Damn job and life and stuff.
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ratamaq doc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
842
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Posted - 2014.09.03 17:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote:
I think anything to do with altering the heat sink on the Amarr Assault or the rate at which it builds up and overheats will be detrimental to the weapons system and the dedicated users of the weapons system, like I said before changes to this will directly affect my muscle memory, because I no longer watch the heat gauge, I feel the heat gauge. And being able to pump out more shots from the ScR is not a good way to go, I think the amount level of heat management on the weapon is perfect, perfect in PC and maybe too good in Pubs but thats a matter of the suits youre going against more so than what the weapon is able to do. IMO
I'm with you here. I've been using the SCR since it launched and feeling and muscle memory is everything to me now. I don't want to have to adjust to my weapons mood swing. I already have to deal with that with my wife.
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ratamaq doc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
842
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Posted - 2014.09.03 18:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote:ratamaq doc wrote:1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote:
I think anything to do with altering the heat sink on the Amarr Assault or the rate at which it builds up and overheats will be detrimental to the weapons system and the dedicated users of the weapons system, like I said before changes to this will directly affect my muscle memory, because I no longer watch the heat gauge, I feel the heat gauge. And being able to pump out more shots from the ScR is not a good way to go, I think the amount level of heat management on the weapon is perfect, perfect in PC and maybe too good in Pubs but thats a matter of the suits youre going against more so than what the weapon is able to do. IMO
I'm with you here. I've been using the SCR since it launched and feeling and muscle memory is everything to me now. I don't want to have to adjust to my weapons mood swing. I already have to deal with that with my wife. Lmao, and from the video I take you being "a man of rhythm" as you being a drummer? Because I am a guitarist and muscle memory is everything when trying to intricately play an instrument while maintaining rhythm. Similar concept to figuring out the heat management and firing intervals of the ScR
Yep, been a drummer since grade school (a ratamacue is one of the 26 American standard drum rudiments).
I'm working up some DPS math right now on the TAC vs SCR to add to the Balance discussion. Finding some interesting things that will probably interest you with regards to rhythm of the SCR. I'm trying to find the best combination of rhythm and rest to get a theoretical DPS over time for the SCR. The TAC was pretty easy. On paper, even leveling their Damage at 70hp per round, the TAC is out performing the SCR by a good bit. I'll post the numbers and how I came to them shortly.
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ratamaq doc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
847
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Posted - 2014.09.03 20:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Gabriella Grey wrote:ratamaq doc wrote:1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote:ratamaq doc wrote:1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote:
SNIP
SNIP SNIP SNIP Please add in there that their functions are night and day. I think their functions have more to play with than anything. The scrambler rifle has a feedback/over heating function, charge function, and the TAR does not. I think these things play a much more important role than any new or old numbers, because these things directly change the interaction with them to the user and with that said, the Scrambler rifle is more limited with it's interaction than the TAR.
Repost from my other thread.
Ok, so crunching some numbers and doing some test has led me to, damn this is a hard question to consider.
For raw numbers I evened a few things out that made the math a little easier because of the amount of variables involved.
First, this math assumes 70hp per shot (even though the base of the TAC has a higher base Second, assumed 480 rpm RoF on both because that is what I can do and I've seen very few (only |--Shaze--| so far) prove they can get above 480 consistent enough to do it for a full 2 seconds. Plus 480 is 120bpm and divides into seconds well (8 shots per second) Third, to make the amount of damage per second and min level better or in even seconds, I assumed reload 2 skill applied. This is because I want to say 16 shots per 2 seconds on both, but the TAC has 18 shots, so 2 additional shots at the same RoF would add 1/4 of a second. Knocking the reload time of the TAC from 3 seconds to 2.82 seconds makes the time between shooting mags 5 seconds even. So 18 shots every 5 seconds or so. Forth, cool down assumes operation 5 on the SCR, which takes total cool down from 6 seconds to 4.5 seconds.
Here are the numbers.
SCR theoretical DPS Average using 70 hp per shot. At 480 rpm 16 shots in 2 seconds Reload 2.5 seconds Pause for 2 seconds (remaining cool down) rince repeat
16 shots every 6.5 seconds = 1120
147 shots per min 10,338 hp per min 173 hp average per second over a full minute
TAC theoretical DPS Average using 70 hp per shot. At 480 18 shots in 2.12 second 2.82 second reload 2 done to give average of 18 shots per 5 seconds.
18 shots every 5 seconds = 1260
216 shots per min 15,120 hp per min 252 hp average per second
Now what is impossible to account for is the fact that I can fire for 2 seconds with the SCR, wait for 1.5 to 2 seconds and get 4 to 8 additional shots off before the TAC is finished reloading. If we were to both survive the initial 'mag' of fire, I would have the advantage on the follow up. I could also fire 16 and press and hold one more time, and fire a full charge shot as my 17th shot to deal the final blow (though I would have to wait a little over 3 seconds to avoid over heat). But theoretically by backloading my chargeshot I could deal an additional 175 hp (it's 2.5 multiplier right?) while he is reloading.
Some other things I found when testing different tempos or rhythm divisions that may interest some SCR users.
-Did you know the lighter you press R1, the more shots you can get out? Makes since after thinking about it, because the shot is a press release, if you press hard, you've pressed longer, a slight tap allows more cool down time between shots. I noticed this when trying to find the perfect timing for continuous fire. Pressing the button as I normally do, I was able to fire all 45 rounds at a tempo of 69bpm using 8th notes. By pressing and releasing the button as lightly as possible I was able to get this up to 84 bpm and fire all 45 rounds consecutively without over heating!
-Rolling 8th note triplets overheated 2 shots less than 16th notes, so only able to get out 14 rounds without overheating, but overheated about half a second later. 8th note triplets at 120bpm translates to about 360 rpm. So if you are a player that is only managing a RoF of 360, you are 2 rounds short of what someone that can go 480. At then end of the day I guess this one was obvious, but seeing it kind of hit home with the argument of heat per round instead of heat per second. Us fast figure guys have what could amount to a 200+HP per engagement advantage if you take into account prof and damage mods over a player with equal SP and gear but no Wheaties for breakfast.
-Quick burst followed by a long pause within the same second will allow for more shots over time. This one is a little harder to explain with out explaining a few core rhythms, but I will try. A 'Triplet' is three evenly spaced beats in the place of 2. A lesson 25 is similar, but the three notes are played faster up front leaving a longer pause before playing the next set. (it's 2 16th notes followed by an 8th note)
So lets say this represents an 8th note triplet followed by a 1/4note rest - .| .| .| } And lets say this represents a lesson 25 followed by a 1/4 note rest - ,|,| ,| }
Rolling triplets in that pattern for the duration of the mag will net you 36 shots before overheat Rolling lesson 25s in that pattern for the duration of the mag will net you 39 shots before overheat. The lesson here is that the quicker the burst, the faster the cool down, though we are really only talking fractions of a second better.
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ratamaq doc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
875
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Posted - 2014.09.05 17:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:ratamaq doc wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Watching the TAR vs Scrambler video and poring over the rifle data, we propose these small tweaks. In most cases, the Gallente rifle family just has overall the worst comparative kick and dispersion so we want to bring them closer to the rest of the rifles.
Bear in mind that these are very small tweaks except for the Gallente ones that are heavily underperforming
Reduce Hipfire dispersion of Tactical Assault Rifle (TAR) to be closer to the Scrambler Rifle (considerable)
Reduce Hipfire Kick of TAR to be closer to Scrambler Rifle (considerable)
Increase Hipfire Kick of Scrambler Rifle to be closer to TAR (tiny)
Reduce Hipfire Kick of Gallente Assault rifle (tiny)
Reduce Hipfire Kick of Gallente Burst Assault Rifles (tiny)
Reduce Zoomed Dispersion of Gallente Breach Rifles (considerable)
Set ROF of both Scrambler and TAR to 600
Increase Hipfire Kick of Rail Rifles on second or more rapid consecutive shot, so full auto will be less accurate in CQC (some)
There are no tweaks for the Assault Scrambler as it may be suffering from Armor tanking environment, unless there is a specific reason you can find, there is nothing in the stats that says it should be. Sweat, thanks for watching! I hope the increase to 600 rpm on the TAC fixes the misfire issue I tried to point out. The rest of the changes look good as well. I'll do a follow up video if these changes are made to compare. If you are offering, why not a Rail Rifle vs Breach AR comparison, and a Burst Rifle to Combat Rifle, and the crowning achievement, Assault Rifles vs each other. I would love to see what a veteran player thinks of each of these comparisons. .
As requested. CR vs BAR. Hope it's not too late.
http://youtu.be/qqiWBB6gWXw
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