DUST Search - Request for Rattati

matsumoto yuichi san wrote:

SponkSponkSponk wrote:

matsumoto yuichi san wrote:

I am simply concerned that we aren't comparing apples to apples here, a skill focused weapon whose only remaining users were those on the upper end of the skill bell curve would skew the weapon towards being more efficient than it's counterparts, simply because the sample population isn't comparable.

It's possible to take that into account (KDR or WP/s stats partitioned by weapon). I'm fairly certain Rattati has the chops to consider that, given his background.

yes i believe he sepatated the stats so he knows by weapon, and that was part of the issue.

if the small number of scrambler rifle users at this moment are in fact simply the +1.5 to +2 sigma users for the average rifle, as the <+1.5 sigma users moved to the other rifles because of ease of use, then by definition the performance of the SCR on average is better than the performance of the other rifles because the average player using it is better than the average player using the other rifles.

depending on the relationship of players to performance i was trying to deduce if in fact that could account for some of the variance he is seeing, and if so how much so as to get us a better idea of the WEAPONS performance component versus player.

It may be nothing but i have a sneaking suspicion that 90% of the SCR users out there are like me and have been using it since it came out through thick and thin, and know it's ins and outs, and have prof V, amarr assault V so the data gets skewed by the player skill / familiarity with weapon / depth of specialization over the average rifle, where a much larger fraction of the users are newer players with less familiarity /

skill points


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
JDEZ09 Dark Side Alliance 72	Posted - 2014.09.02 17:16:00 - [1] - Quote Rof: 650 Reason: You don't want to overnerf this weapon CCP. It needs to be done in a reasonable manner that allows us ScR vets to still use their skills. The Tac AR was the prime example of what happens when a great gun gets nerfed. Now you want to do this to the most unique light weapon of the game? While were talking scramblers, lets talk damage profiles. The Scrambler has a profie of +20/-20 Its comparable counterpart, the rail rifle, has a profile of -10/+20 And you want to change the ScR? When it is obviously the weakest gun for armor body shots? You have to take into account that most scrambler users are actual amarr assaults, using advanced or proto ScR. Its pretty much because it HAS to in order to have that efficiency. No other gun forces that like the Scrambler Rifle. It is a skill based weapon, but it needs to be brought just a tad lower, not 100s of rpm lower like the Tac AR was (R.I.P.) If you lower the RoF at all, then the profile needs to be adjusted to match the Rail Rifle but for shield based damage. ScR: +20/-10 Also, Laser Rifles need some love, they overheat way too fast now on any suit.
JDEZ09 Dark Side Alliance 72	Posted - 2014.09.02 17:26:00 - [2] - Quote These 400-500 rpm people on here are completely trolling. That is 100s of RPM in diffence!!! There is NO need to take it that extreme when only a few players are using the weapon in the 1st place. If a Scrambler is eating your armor super fast, its probably because the user is stacking damage mods. which means (if amarr) his/her shields are very low and they rely on armor as well. They also might be getting headshots more often, which is what makes the ScR really shine. So if anything, dont nerf the RoF, but maybe the headshot multiplier. Just bring that down a fraction of its current state to give it some reasonable numbers. I can't believe I have to come to these forums to defend my weapon. You qqers are taking this nerfing culture way too far. People have worked very hard to get their guns to be this powerful. The turbo controller exploiters are your enemy in this, not the true vets that love this unique gun.
JDEZ09 Dark Side Alliance 72	Posted - 2014.09.02 18:13:00 - [3] - Quote matsumoto yuichi san wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: matsumoto yuichi san wrote: I am simply concerned that we aren't comparing apples to apples here, a skill focused weapon whose only remaining users were those on the upper end of the skill bell curve would skew the weapon towards being more efficient than it's counterparts, simply because the sample population isn't comparable. It's possible to take that into account (KDR or WP/s stats partitioned by weapon). I'm fairly certain Rattati has the chops to consider that, given his background. yes i believe he sepatated the stats so he knows by weapon, and that was part of the issue. if the small number of scrambler rifle users at this moment are in fact simply the +1.5 to +2 sigma users for the average rifle, as the <+1.5 sigma users moved to the other rifles because of ease of use, then by definition the performance of the SCR on average is better than the performance of the other rifles because the average player using it is better than the average player using the other rifles. depending on the relationship of players to performance i was trying to deduce if in fact that could account for some of the variance he is seeing, and if so how much so as to get us a better idea of the WEAPONS performance component versus player. It may be nothing but i have a sneaking suspicion that 90% of the SCR users out there are like me and have been using it since it came out through thick and thin, and know it's ins and outs, and have prof V, amarr assault V so the data gets skewed by the player skill / familiarity with weapon / depth of specialization over the average rifle, where a much larger fraction of the users are newer players with less familiarity / skill points These are excellent points CCP. We have stuck with this gun for so long. It is a skill based weapon. One that weeds out the unskiled players and promotes good marksmanship. If anything, the ScR needs a damage profile adjustment to reflect the Rail Rifle. +20/-10. No RoF nerf, but maybe tone down the headshot multiplier just a tad? Isnt that the real culprit here?
JDEZ09 Dark Side Alliance 72	Posted - 2014.09.02 18:21:00 - [4] - Quote Take a second to listen to this hit single by DSTheDrunkHeavy. "Don't Nerf my Gun,Gun,Gun" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im4Tb_AXQig&feature=youtube_gdata_player Dont nerf my ScR bro! Do this right! Lol Hope you liked the song. Hope it rings in your ears all day.
JDEZ09 Dark Side Alliance 73	Posted - 2014.09.02 20:48:00 - [5] - Quote RoF: 600-650 It is a much more reasonable start than the people proposing we nerf it by 100s of rounds per minute. Either do that, or just lower the headshot multiplier a little. Scrambler Rifle Users have respect for the other weapons. While everyone is using combat rifles and rail rifles, someone has to step in and stop the bullying. Nerfing the Scr to 400-500 is absolutely TOO MUCH of a nerf. Dont even consider those numbers.m Again. 600-650 is a much safer start to this CCP. Dont give in to the noobery.
JDEZ09 Dark Side Alliance 76	Posted - 2014.09.02 21:58:00 - [6] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Funny, I just did a one-minute drill spamming the trigger of a mouse (easier than a controller) at the rate I pull the trigger in DUST while aiming. 292 clicks, approximately 5 clicks/shots per second. HOW is dropping the scram below 500 "Too much of a nerf?" Unless you're gonna lose your autofire advantage. In which case... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Did the same. 489 shots/clicks/whatever. That's how many times I can click a mouse in a minute, I know I can do it faster on a DS3, probably 520-540. I easily exceed 375 RpM just casually shooting. When I REALLY get into it, I'm sure I get over 500. Just because you can't do it... Thank you brother, this is a decent example of a skilled user going past the average threshold. This doesnt mean that CCP should then limit us to this number though. No autofire over here buddy. Heres what you are proposing by saying 400-500 rpm. 400 Rof is a 43.34% Rof nerf from the current 705.88 rpm. 500 Rof is a 29.14% Rof nerf from the current 705.88 rpm. Just because Im trying to prevent CCP from over nerfing something doesnt mean that were all cheating and using turbo contollers. Where are your manners man? You wanted numbers, well okay fine buddy boy. here are some numbers. A level 1 scrambler rifle if Rof was 400 rpm. 519.66 Shield DPS 346.67 Armor DPS And youre over here doing minute long tests to see how many presses you can get XD like as if you can even do that with a scrambler. It seizes up after 15-24 shots depending on the level. So for every 2.5 seconds of constant fire, you have to WAIT about 2 seconds before firing another reasonable barrage again. So guess what? Unless you have a sidearm, the SCR available shots per minute gets cut in half from even that. how about your proposed 500 RoF? Level 1 ScR 650 shield DPS 433.66 armor DPS Again, only available for a short time before seizing or having to wait just as long. again, cutting the damage output in half. This is IF and only If you dont overheat the scrambler. So what do we learn here? The scrambler is supposed to be a high DPS weapon, but with a required cooldown between barrages. Lets not forget that almost all other light weapons DO NOT have this limitation. They recieve a consistent Damage per second, limited by the clip size. So doing this proposed mega nerf will only stunt our new ScR brethren from really getting into the gun. We do not want that to happen. With the amount of heavies and armor stacking mercs out there, I dont think you need to be worrying about the scrambler.
JDEZ09 Dark Side Alliance 76	Posted - 2014.09.02 22:23:00 - [7] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: Here is a video covering quite a bit of what is being talked about here. It turned into a TAC vs SCR video showing the difference in the two. Disclaimer: I am an SCR user. Have been since it released. I'm also a simi auto rifle user in other FPS games. It's my preferred play style there. The only reason I am not an Amarr proto is because I didn't want to get used to the extra rounds. Using the rifle and not overheating is as much about feeling as it is counting. Things covered in this comentary video: -Stats, Cost, and Skill of the TAC vs the SCR. -TAC in action showing it shining in Optimal and falling on it's ass in <30 meters (Some slowmo comparison) -SCR in action showing it shining in all ranges (Also with slow motion comparison) -Outside of game video showing both riflers firing at a near consistent 480 rounds per min using a metronome set at 120bpm with 16th note subdivisions -Slow motion of the TAC misfiring while well under 500 RPM (Bug?) and what I fear would happen if the ROF gets lowered to much on the SCR -EXTREME dispersion difference in both hip fire and ADS between the two (side by side using a commando firing at a wall) -A bad ass drummer in the background. (seriously, this dude is remarkable) I'm going to post this in GD as well, but this seems to be the place for both us SCR lovers and the haters. And for all those claiming that more than 6 trigger pulls per second controlled is not possible, wtf is wrong with you? Eat some Wheaties or something. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuOXdZfHeN8&feature=youtu.be I remember your RoF video that you posted. A great example of human skill, and what happens when you eat your wheaties XD
JDEZ09 Dark Side Alliance 77	Posted - 2014.09.03 00:41:00 - [8] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: Fix the turbo controller issue first, then see where the weapons are at, i bet there won"t be allot of scramblers left. To be fair, when I bust out my Templar gear, I find most of the time (but not always) I am the only one the map using a LR or SCR. They are really not that popular weapon systems in DUST at all. I do have skills to use proto weapons n have the holy suit to level 5 btw. It seems to be Heavies with HMGs, RR`s and CR`s, some AR`s, some scattering of sidearms, the odd plasma cannon n forge gun, very few LR`s and SCR`s, barely anyone using mass driver and the same for flaylock. Antaro Adun Execcutor! Lolz Anyone that quotes a SC Zealot deserves a +1 for sure. I LONG FOR COMBAT!