DUST Search - Request for Rattati

CCP Rattati wrote:

Watching the TAR vs Scrambler video and poring over the rifle data, we propose these small tweaks. In most cases, the Gallente rifle family just has overall the worst comparative kick and dispersion so we want to bring them closer to the rest of the rifles.

Bear in mind that these are very small tweaks except for the Gallente ones that are heavily underperforming

Reduce Hipfire dispersion of Tactical Assault Rifle (TAR) to be closer to the Scrambler Rifle (considerable)

Reduce Hipfire Kick of TAR to be closer to Scrambler Rifle (considerable)

Increase Hipfire Kick of Scrambler Rifle to be closer to TAR (tiny)

Reduce Hipfire Kick of Gallente Assault rifle (tiny)

Reduce Hipfire Kick of Gallente Burst Assault Rifles (tiny)

Reduce Zoomed Dispersion of Gallente Breach Rifles (considerable)

Set ROF of both Scrambler and TAR to 600

Increase Hipfire Kick of Rail Rifles on second or more rapid consecutive shot, so full auto will be less accurate in CQC (some)

There are no tweaks for the Assault Scrambler as it may be suffering from Armor tanking environment, unless there is a specific reason you can find, there is nothing in the stats that says it should be.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2479	Posted - 2014.09.02 15:51:00 - [1] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: Two points: - I'd guess that the SCR is extremely unpopular with new players. That means the average KDR with an SCR is going to be that of a veteran player while the KDR of a AR will be an average of both old and new players. - I wouldn't mind a ROF reduction. I don't think the SCR is supposed to be a 'spammable' CQC-weapon, so make a limited ROF a part of the concept. Maybe even increase damage in return. BTW, remember that a SCR user generally has to sacrifice some tank to be able to fit that weapon. For reference, a PRO SCR uses 92/20 CPU/PG while a PRO CR comes in at 81/8 (source is protofits). Applying a standard conversion of 5 CPU/PG you realize the SCR uses ~59% more fitting space than a CR. Maybe fix that another day if you want to balance the weapon's efficiencies first, but keep it in mind. most new players will see a scram in the killfeed over an over and be like "It must be OP! I should use it!" then they figure out it's not an instant-win butan and discard it until they havemore SP and come back to the weapon. Don't get me wrong, I love the scram, but the primary reason I don't use it is the cost of the dropsuits and fittings you have to field to make the weapon beastly. Honestly it's why I mostly stick to standard weapons and bust out the good stuff when I feel like being an A**hole.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2479	Posted - 2014.09.02 16:08:00 - [2] - Quote Commenting on a per-statement basis. Responses in boldface. The fact of the matter is that the weapon's efficiency is considerably higher than the rest of the rifle population. Wasn't expecting to see that, but given the number of times I've been on the receiving end I should not be shocked. Those rifles are also measured against Public matches so doesn't create a comparison bias. Have to measure them in pubs IMHO because that's where every single player goes. All of the good, bad and mediocre play pubs, so it's a broad comparison. balancing based on a niche population who can make a weapon dance as opposed to general use isn't a good thing. Turbo controllers, can be used for more than just the Scrambler, so the numbers should not be biased due to that I don't honestly believe for a split-second that Turbo controllers are the sole contributing factor here. Scrambler rifles are most effective by dealing a full charge shot from surprise before 2-3 snap-fires. This is more than enough to take out 90% of dropsuits fielded. You cannot charge shot with the turbo loaded. It just doesn't work. The absolutely raw alpha damage the weapon inflicts is an issue but the efficiency of the weapon actually suffers when you do not charge the thing first for an opening alpha strike. It is a skill weapon, for sure, which explains why it is less used than the other rifles. Tends to be unpopular because it isn't an easy weapon to learn to use efficiently. But once you do, it's a nightmare to deal with. I also believe, that even with a majority of the playerbase Armor tanking, it is going to be even more efficient through the shield module improvements we are proposing, after swaying more players over to Shield Tanking. Changing the Combat rifle use stats will change that quite a bit, mostly because people will be forced to pick their poisons. But I think the Scram does too much damage on a per-shot basis (uncharged) to make a simple Rate of Fire change that doesn't significantly hack down the utility of the weapon viable as a balance. Bringing it to 500-ish nerfs the modded controllers, but keeps it above most players' ability to spam a trigger. I'm dubious that any player realistically jumps the rate of fire manually higher than 300-350. I seem to average about five trigger pulls per second when I am not taking care about where I'm hitting, desperately putting rounds downrange. We certainly don't want to overnerf this weapon, just tweak it. ROF changes seem to hit both dps and turbo controllers. Honestly the best nerf would be to make the overheat occur on a per-shot basis rather than per-second. if you designate that 1/2 the magazine can be fored before needing cooldown in rapid succession (1/3 after a charge shot) it cuts down the blastspam sharply. I have no idea if that is even able to be considered in a hotfix without screwing the laser rifle up badly. What could be an acceptable reduction in ROF?[/quote] I would put it somewhere between 400 and 500. People will scream about on-paper DPS but I doubt that it will significantly alter the performance of the weapon in the hands of people not using modded controls or mainlining ritalin. The Charge shot needs to be the primary alpha or it needs to be removed entirely. Either way, that's my two cents. Have fun.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2483	Posted - 2014.09.02 19:06:00 - [3] - Quote Im not trolling, you are being reactionary.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2486	Posted - 2014.09.02 20:17:00 - [4] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: I would just lower the RoF to 530-580, I would also ask for a strong shotgun nerf and a RoF reduction for HMG to 2000. HMG is fine (Except the burst) Shotgun is not the problem, it's the delivery platform. Watch what happens when a sprout hits you with a proto SMG sometime. it's not fun. Lower the scram Rof to 400-500.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2490	Posted - 2014.09.02 20:57:00 - [5] - Quote explain why it's too much of a nerf. You saying it's too much is an utterly dismissal-worthy reason. calling people noobs and scrubs is not evidence that it's too much of a nerf. Provide math or shut up.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2490	Posted - 2014.09.02 21:04:00 - [6] - Quote Funny, I just did a one-minute drill spamming the trigger of a mouse (easier than a controller) at the rate I pull the trigger in DUST while aiming. 292 clicks, approximately 5 clicks/shots per second. HOW is dropping the scram below 500 "Too much of a nerf?" Unless you're gonna lose your autofire advantage. In which case... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2507	Posted - 2014.09.03 06:21:00 - [7] - Quote the other consideration is the scrambler rifle is an alpha weapon, not a DPS weapon. Usually higher damage means slower rate of fire
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2511	Posted - 2014.09.03 11:03:00 - [8] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Watching the TAR vs Scrambler video and poring over the rifle data, we propose these small tweaks. In most cases, the Gallente rifle family just has overall the worst comparative kick and dispersion so we want to bring them closer to the rest of the rifles. Bear in mind that these are very small tweaks except for the Gallente ones that are heavily underperforming Reduce Hipfire dispersion of Tactical Assault Rifle (TAR) to be closer to the Scrambler Rifle (considerable) Reduce Hipfire Kick of TAR to be closer to Scrambler Rifle (considerable) Increase Hipfire Kick of Scrambler Rifle to be closer to TAR (tiny) Reduce Hipfire Kick of Gallente Assault rifle (tiny) Reduce Hipfire Kick of Gallente Burst Assault Rifles (tiny) Reduce Zoomed Dispersion of Gallente Breach Rifles (considerable) Set ROF of both Scrambler and TAR to 600 Increase Hipfire Kick of Rail Rifles on second or more rapid consecutive shot, so full auto will be less accurate in CQC (some) There are no tweaks for the Assault Scrambler as it may be suffering from Armor tanking environment, unless there is a specific reason you can find, there is nothing in the stats that says it should be. How does this help the performance of the standard gallente assault rifle besides a little hipfire kick? That's not going to make the primary variant stop underperforming.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2512	Posted - 2014.09.03 11:51:00 - [9] - Quote honestly my worst issue is for some reason the weapon isn't APPLYING the damage the way a lot of other weapons do. It's like you wind up hitbox glitching or something. this is especially noticable with scouts who strafe right through a line of incoming autofire and take no damage. I don't know if anyone notices issues with actually having the weapons apply the damage. I have no problems with rails and scrams (when I aim) and i can chalk up my issues with the CR to me sucking with burst fire weapons thoroughly. But for some reason alot of the time the ARs don't seem to be applying all (or any) damage when they are fired in close, which is helping the other rifles overperform against them in my observation. And my above statement about scouts isn't a "They're OP! it's literally I see them walk through my lines of fire and not take damage. I had one strafe through an HMG spray & pray a few times, and only lose a third of their shields after the hitsstarted registering. But it's not exclusive to scouts. The AR seems to have a wishy-washy registry of hits to me. I don't know how to explain it further and I'm really wishing I had video capture at the moment to show you what I'm talking about. I've seen it crop up on the laser rifle too, when firing on a moving target, the game loves to have the target move "between the bullets" as it were, and not take hits.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2512	Posted - 2014.09.03 12:01:00 - [10] - Quote actually, now that I think about it, I have this problem on all of the fast-fire automatics to a greater or lesser extent, from the asscram to the HMG

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2512	Posted - 2014.09.03 13:18:00 - [11] - Quote Jin no kami wrote: This is gonna make gal assault op if they implement these buffs =ƒÿ+=ƒÿ+=ƒÿ+=ƒÿ+=ƒÿ+=ƒÿ+=ƒÿ+ doubt it
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2516	Posted - 2014.09.03 17:55:00 - [12] - Quote Gabriella Grey wrote: TAR comparing them to the scrambler rifle is fine but there is some things that need to be looked into. First the make-up of how the guns operate. The TAR has no seizure rate or needs a cool down, The TAR cannot charge a shot and lead off with crippling alpha. Net gain: zero.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2532	Posted - 2014.09.04 14:55:00 - [13] - Quote the solution, it seems, would be to make close-in weapons suffer less from recoil so they can be hipfired stably, allowing better rounds-on-target. This logic needs not be applied futher to the HMG. It's the exception to this supposition because it's utterly lethal in close. Further, addressing the range issue, I have noticed that from closed-beta onward CCP has been taught that the playerbase wants shorter-range engagements. The weapons we had before Uprising all had longer range (and despie whining to the contrary, everyone could still outrange the HMG) but people cried out that the ranges were too long,. it was unfair, et al. We even see some of it today with people screaming that the rail rifle is OP because of the range it's capable of hitting at. The range used to be the scream point of the laser rifle, to the point where everyone said it was OP until it ate the nerf hammer to the face. I'd never had a problem with it (as I always used the armor tanked version of the Heavy suits) but it was largely the range + overheat that always got it screamed about. People have been bitching about sniper and forge ranges for years. The Sniper ranges were never a problem (except for certain map glitches) because CCP had not yet fixed it so the game only rendered enemies in your weapon range (this is why no one can find a goddamn thale except another thale) and then suddenly certain snipers became untouchable. Same went for forge guns. But realistically the reason why ranges are so tight was because early in the game certain parties made it their mission in life to have certain weapons (because only scrubs use long range stuff instead of the bunny hopping strafe dance) nerfed into uselessness. So now we have a future war game where the only hand rifle that shoots past 80-meters is a futuristic hunting rifle. Because the player base demanded that fights be brought in tighter, so they could do the weird little wiggle,and not get taken by surprise by the guy on the roof 150 meters out with the laser rifle. The Laser Rifle used to be a fair analog to the sniper rifle rangewise. Not as good, obviously, but still. It was nice. I never got it past basic, and I still suck with it to this day.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2581	Posted - 2014.09.06 11:23:00 - [14] - Quote Hybrid tanking? There is only shield tanking and armor tanking. Anything else is dual tanking and should be killed with fire. Further, a 1500 HP fatsuit is remarkably squishy under the right kind of enemy action. Plasma cannons and shotguns are almost universally lethal, as is any fight outside 40m.