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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3417
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Posted - 2014.09.02 11:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Rei Shepherd wrote:
-The higher efficiency you talk about, does that take into the account that the weapon can overheat, because quite frankly if say an assault rifle deals 450 damage per second while it has a clip that can maintain this damage for 6 seconds and a SCR would deal 450 damage per second but can do this for 2 seconds, then what is its overheat purpose ? kick yourself to the floor while yer assaulting someone?
-the rof change will just severly hit None-turbo users as we now might have overlap in shots, turbo controller users are not gonna be affected as they do not need to think much when firing and just get the max dps at all times, where fingers are quite allot less perfect and can mess up.
I would propose to Fix the Turbo controller issue first, then see if any of the rifles, you say that more are used with Turbo, then why not FIX that first, level the playing field and then balance the weapons ?
It seems a bit counter productive to fix and lower rof on weapons based on turbo controller use, wouldnt it be easier to fox turbo abuse and then see how all the weapons work ?
You are never going to balance the weapons when 1 person gets shot with turbo and the other not, but balance it as if it wasn't used with turbo, afterwards, the turbo guy will still have the same advantage as before.
When he talks about efficiency he means in match effectiveness, the ScR is getting higher KDR and lower kill times than the other weapons, this is because it's a front loaded weapon.
The ScR works by doing large amounts of damage for a short period of time, they bsing incapacitated due to overheat constraints. But this creates an operational problem. The overheat is only a problem if you can't kill your opponent before you reach that overheat.
In any other scenario, you've already killed that guy so what difference does it matter? Now alot of scrambler rifle user rebuke this by saying, but as soon as you put it against 2 people it's balanced.
Which is a biased arguement, since their is just an equal chance their will only be one of them and two of you. Furthermore most weapons would look underpowered/balanced when pitched against 2 enemies. That's kinda the point of teamwork.
Anyway I'm starting to digress, you say it balanced against 2 people, which means in order to reliably beat an ScR user of average skill, you need 2 people of average skill weilding a different set of weapons. One as cannon fodder and one to finish you off. So what happens when 8 memebers of your team run a scrambler rifle, you need 8 pairs to engage them, aka the entire enemy team, which bearing in mind their are still 8 people on your team left running around creates a serious force imbalance.
We infact end up with a similar situation that tankers were in, if takes more than 1 person to reliably defeat another you get a force inbalance. Now another common rebuttal is, but there is more armour tankers than shield tankers, now whole this fact is currently true, both your self and I are aware that was never always the case, in fact shields have still being paying for that since the armour buff.
But here's the thing if we look at the new Projectile profile damage of -15/+15, if shields become the most preferred tank type again, is it fair that the CR gets a damage buff in order to deal with the over popularity of shields? No? So why is it fair to give such a bonus to the ScR?
Finally people use the, it's the most skilled weapon in the game, you and I both know that's a barefaced lie, the Scrambler has similar behaviour to the other 3 rifles types, their is no travel time, their is no lower accuracy or smaller shots that are more likely to miss, nothing. The only thing skillful about the ScR is not overheating but getting close to doing so.
In my opinion the ScR needs a DPS only marginally better than the AR, (460 probably) and slightly slower overheat. This still gives enough DOT to kill most suits before the overheat, but skill comes intomthe equation alot more. The weapon also becomes less useful in CQC because with the low accuracy enviroment the overheat becomes a much mkre severly limiting factor.
I would achieve this by nerfing both DPS and Damage to around 8 shots per second (8.45 to be precise) and the relevamt damage, 58 per shot.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3420
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Posted - 2014.09.02 13:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:When we use the argument about the 2 vs 1, we mean that if we had another weapon like the Combat rifle in our hands we would still have been able to kill those 2 instead of dying due to a error on use of the SCR, mainly the overheat. This is nothing to do with weapon balance at all then since this down to your ability to dodge shots or your opponents inability to land them. We can further perpetuate this arguement to say that with enough skill you take on the entire enemy team simultaneously, this doesn't make the weapon you used OP, it makes your enemy absolutely terrible. Being unable to take out 2 people does not make weapon balanced anymore than going 25/0 with an Ion Pistol makes it OP.Overheat is always an issue that you need to keep in the back of your mind, having to keep track of something put a burden on the user, even if it does not happen. Yet you assume the CR user does not have to keep an eye on his ever dwindling magazine, or the RR user having to take into account his charge time, most of the weapons have a downpoint that must be monitored the ScR is no more special in that regard. Futhermore your opinion that it is shows bias to your weapon, you are in effect showing you have a vested intrest in maintaining the weapons current effectiveness.Also about the KDR, less users use the weapon, most users of the SCR are better then average players, so while scrubs don't polute the database with missed shots and less deaths (everyone uses an AR at the start), ofcourse its KDR is gonna be allot higher. You have data for this? Don't forget the Rifles were all recently given mlt variants which are applied directly to frontline fits, so if we assume amarr is 25% of the population, that's a whole lot of newbies who are now using that weapon which would systematically give you a deluge of unskilled players to even out the data points.
Once again the fact you assume that the ScR is used by only the skilled individuals of this game, raises two points. Why are there skilled individuals in other weapon discipline? Why aren't the skilled users also using the other weapons in equal measure? Quote:Finally people use the, it's the most skilled weapon in the game, you and I both know that's a barefaced lie, the Scrambler has similar behaviour to the other 3 rifles types, their is no travel time, their is no lower accuracy or smaller shots that are more likely to miss, nothing. The only thing skillful about the ScR is not overheating but getting close to doing so. And yet i can't come close to the things i can pull off with a RR or CR then what i can do with the SCR, yet when i run 87/3 with the CR, not as much as a single mail, but hooboy if i run 60/5 with the SCR, ill have at least 1 or 2 mails about how OP it is. Maybe you need to reassess your skill level then, you are clearly better at those 2 rifles. Once again your using your circumstantial experience as justification for a weapon. If I go 46/2 with a Bolt Pistol and 25/3 with a SMG is the Bolt Pistol OP? No of course not, but I've just pulled 2 numbers that would say otherwise. Once again your arguement is based upon circumstantial evidence which has no real bearing on the discussion at hand.Compared to how effortless the CR is to use, the SCR fails short at that by a mile. Yet my little brother can't use it, but he absolutely wrecks with the AR. The only difference in terms of the two weapons is you get a 2.4 seconds to overheat and the CR gets 3.2 seconds to reload, though bear in mind cooldown on the ScR is faster is you avoid overheating the weapon, reloading is not.Face it, most skilled people gravitate towards, difficult weapons to use with allot of Alpha Strike damage, most regular players gravitate to the easiest weapons to use. Yet more circumstantial evidence, you have no data to prove this, I however have the following examples that help to disprove this.
BURST HMG - Front Loaded by design currently overused and Overperforming SHOTGUN - Naturally a front loaded weapon overused and Overperforming
LASER RIFLE - Rear Loaded weapon increasingly uncommon FORGE GUN - Rear Loaded weapin, only used for tower sniping
I don't doubt the ScR is a front loaded weapon, but that's exactly why it doesn't work as a 'general purpose rifle' their are no operational drawbacks that make it difficult to use in the majority of situations.
For example the Sniper Rifle is a front-loaded weapon, high alpha damage, slow ROF. But absolutely sucks if your opponent knows your their or is close quarters.
Shotgun front loaded, high alpha, slow ROF, even at 20m range all it does is tickle you. Only works if your oppoenet is given little time to react (hence cloaks currently making them overperform)
The ScR on the other hand, has the 2nd best range of any rifle, high ammo count, high alpha, high ROF, decent accuracy across all ranges and overheat that rarely goes off before you kill your opoonent.
There are no limiting drawbacks to the ScR as a front loaded weapon, which is precisely why it's unbalanced.
In short you entire argument is based upon circumstantial evidence and made up opinions, your vested intrest in the weapon is clearly visible and you prodice no valid reason for the ScR being allowed to perform at it's curent effectiveness.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3420
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Posted - 2014.09.02 13:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:Incrementally drop the RoF over a course of hotfixes, until we reach a number that works. For Delta, start off with 600, 10 rounds per second. A nice number to start from, don't you think? If that doesn't work, drop it to 540 in Echo , 9 rounds per second. If that doesn't work, drop it to 480 in Foxtrot, 8 rounds per second. I very much doubt we will ever have to go below that.
Also make the heat buildup per shot, if possible without a client update. If not possible, enact ASAP. I never understood why the heat mechanics are all time based in this game. It should all be per shot and percentage based, not time held.
Because if you look at the majority of weapons that overheat, you hold down the fire button for prolonged periods of time, which is traditionally what overheat is designed to discourage.
Small Blaster Small Railgun Large Blaster Large Railgun HMG Laser Rifle
Implementing a Heat per second mechanic is considerably more effecient on these weapons than a heat per shot, which must call a 'heat increase' function with every shot, with each function taking up valuable processing power and being called upwards of 10 times a second in the case of most of these weapons, you end slowing your game down.
Unfortunately the lack of programming proficent devs (who are capable of working with the 'deep code') meant certain shortcuts had to be made, the ScR heat mechanic was one of those such shortcuts.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3424
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Posted - 2014.09.02 22:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
In short you entire argument is based upon circumstantial evidence and made up opinions, your vested intrest in the weapon is clearly visible and you prodice no valid reason for the ScR being allowed to perform at it's curent effectiveness.
Yeah and each time i bring out the CR and RR coment are better, you completely ignore them and this is from actually using all 3 of them at lvl V, all skills. I don't need to, if you like me to give you my opinion, the CR has a net gain profile and the RR has the longest range of any rifle, they are going to be very proficient, but considering the CR and RR are not considered to be over performing, it's nothing more than opinion.I have no illusions as to what CCP is gonna do with the weapon, i have both CR, RR and SCR at lvl 5; ill just wipe the smile of peoples faces with both the other weapons at my disposal, but on a more serious not i have not played Dust in like 4-6 months seriously, at best ive hopped into the game on a friday night to run 3-4 games and call it quits. What's your problem then? Why didn't you use them in the first place?But, yes i do care about the weapon as it has been a fabulous companion and piece of weaponry when everyone was throwing Brick-Tanked Slayerlogi suits at me. Those days are gone, it's time for it to be tonned down.though i gotta ask, your replies all sound like you are very very b*tthurt from being shot by it and want nothing more then nerf it to the ground, so witch weapon do you roll with? The better question would which don't I run with, to which the answer is the Forge Gun. No butthurt, just showing the math, you can see it a mile off, it sticks out like a aore thumb. But like i said multiple times in this thread, witch you also ignore, FIX TURBO CONTROLLER ABUSE first, that will fix most of the issue this gun is facing right now, Scrub + AutoFire + 3x DamMod = InstaGib, if he can hit his target, especially on Militia Suits. Fix that and 50% of the problem goes away overnight. Which Rattati has already explained requires a patch, currently out of the question, so the only, other option is the ROF, which brings into question exactly what DPS it should be achieving. But like i said, i only play when i got an itch to scratch, next time ill play regularly again will be on Legion.
Well I'll see you there then ;)
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3425
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Posted - 2014.09.03 10:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Watching the TAR vs Scrambler video and poring over the rifle data, we propose these small tweaks. In most cases, the Gallente rifle family just has overall the worst comparative kick and dispersion so we want to bring them closer to the rest of the rifles.
Bear in mind that these are very small tweaks except for the Gallente ones that are heavily underperforming
Reduce Hipfire dispersion of Tactical Assault Rifle (TAR) to be closer to the Scrambler Rifle (considerable)
Reduce Hipfire Kick of TAR to be closer to Scrambler Rifle (considerable)
Increase Hipfire Kick of Scrambler Rifle to be closer to TAR (tiny)
Reduce Hipfire Kick of Gallente Assault rifle (tiny)
Reduce Hipfire Kick of Gallente Burst Assault Rifles (tiny)
Reduce Zoomed Dispersion of Gallente Breach Rifles (considerable)
Set ROF of both Scrambler and TAR to 600
Increase Hipfire Kick of Rail Rifles on second or more rapid consecutive shot, so full auto will be less accurate in CQC (some)
There are no tweaks for the Assault Scrambler as it may be suffering from Armor tanking environment, unless there is a specific reason you can find, there is nothing in the stats that says it should be.
Sounds absolutely fine to me. Do you have the percentages for those increases/decreases? When you say tiny increases I'm hoping for 15% or so. Also would this be a good time to start discussing the other rifles operation skils which are all currently -25% Kick.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3434
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Posted - 2014.09.03 15:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:CCP Rattati wrote: There are no tweaks for the Assault Scrambler as it may be suffering from Armor tanking environment, unless there is a specific reason you can find, there is nothing in the stats that says it should be.
Here's why the ASCR sucks so bad: http://youtu.be/hrVDPmIhkx8Basically, the kick is similar to the RR, which makes it a very unreliable weapon at long range. Except that there isn't a skill to reduce the scrambler kick so even the Carthum with prof 5 and 3 damage mods underpreforms Combine that with a shorter range than the standard scrambler AND the fact that it does 80% damage to armor with no prof bonus makes the weapon suffer when an enemy is barely outside of your optimal. The horrid kick of the weapon makes it so that only a fraction of shots actually hit the target at range, and when your DPS comes from most of your shots hitting, having the weapon miss so much is terrible. In CQC, a normal scrambler rifle can take down a sentinel faster than the ASCR because each shot means more...heck, even against caldari suits the ASCR misses too much to feel like much of a threat.
Umm I don't know how to tell you this but there was no recoil there and kick was negligible. Unless you were compensating for it, the weapon never moved from that caution sign.
Get the ACR and try the same exercise with that, you'll find yourself halfway up the Door. Get the ARR and try the same execise with that, you'll find the sights jump around like a frog on springs. What you are prehaps talking about is the ADS dispersion, in which case yes it would probably benifit from a lower ADS dispersion.
For clarification Kick is how much the site vary/sway from there point of origin after a shot is fired. High Kick results in the weapons feeling unruly in ADS but will require little actual repositioning.
Recoil is how bad the torque reaction is, as the rifle kicks it moves slightly upwards and to the right (traditionally - for a right handed weapon), HROF weapons typically exhibit the most recoil, this physically changes the aim of the weapon and requires re targeting during prolonged periods of firing.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3439
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Posted - 2014.09.03 20:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:I-Shayz-I wrote:CCP Rattati wrote: There are no tweaks for the Assault Scrambler as it may be suffering from Armor tanking environment, unless there is a specific reason you can find, there is nothing in the stats that says it should be.
Here's why the ASCR sucks so bad: http://youtu.be/hrVDPmIhkx8Basically, the kick is similar to the RR, which makes it a very unreliable weapon at long range. Except that there isn't a skill to reduce the scrambler kick so even the Carthum with prof 5 and 3 damage mods underpreforms Combine that with a shorter range than the standard scrambler AND the fact that it does 80% damage to armor with no prof bonus makes the weapon suffer when an enemy is barely outside of your optimal. The horrid kick of the weapon makes it so that only a fraction of shots actually hit the target at range, and when your DPS comes from most of your shots hitting, having the weapon miss so much is terrible. In CQC, a normal scrambler rifle can take down a sentinel faster than the ASCR because each shot means more...heck, even against caldari suits the ASCR misses too much to feel like much of a threat. Umm I don't know how to tell you this but there was no recoil there and kick was negligible. Unless you were compensating for it, the weapon never moved from that caution sign. Get the ACR and try the same exercise with that, you'll find yourself halfway up the Door. Get the ARR and try the same execise with that, you'll find the sights jump around like a frog on springs. What you are prehaps talking about is the ADS dispersion, in which case yes it would probably benifit from a lower ADS dispersion. For clarification Kick is how much the site vary/sway from there point of origin after a shot is fired. High Kick results in the weapons feeling unruly in ADS but will require little actual repositioning. Recoil is how bad the torque reaction is, as the rifle kicks it moves slightly upwards and to the right (traditionally - for a right handed weapon), HROF weapons typically exhibit the most recoil, this physically changes the aim of the weapon and requires re targeting during prolonged periods of firing. I've always understood kick to simply be a colloquial term for recoil, i.e. they are the same thing. But you're right, the video clearly shows there is virtually no recoil when using the AScR.
I learnt the difference in a ver strange way, as a Cadet I fired .22 Rifles and L98A2 Marksman Rifles. The .22 has no kick, but the weight of the rifle means readjusting from it is difficult, which gives you recoil.
The L98A2 however is lightweight and the base stock has a spring in it to mitigate recoil slightly. You can fire at a decent rate of 3 shot per second (bolt shot) and keep your rounds on targer much better.
A friend of mine (a guy called 'pockets') was used to firing the .22 and got into the habit of resting the butt of his shoulder while firing. The first time he fired an L98 the rifle kicked so much the butt flew up and broke his nose. Kick and recoil ;)
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3441
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Posted - 2014.09.03 21:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
CUSE TOWN333 wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Rei Shepherd wrote:
-The higher efficiency you talk about, does that take into the account that the weapon can overheat, because quite frankly if say an assault rifle deals 450 damage per second while it has a clip that can maintain this damage for 6 seconds and a SCR would deal 450 damage per second but can do this for 2 seconds, then what is its overheat purpose ? kick yourself to the floor while yer assaulting someone?
-the rof change will just severly hit None-turbo users as we now might have overlap in shots, turbo controller users are not gonna be affected as they do not need to think much when firing and just get the max dps at all times, where fingers are quite allot less perfect and can mess up.
I would propose to Fix the Turbo controller issue first, then see if any of the rifles, you say that more are used with Turbo, then why not FIX that first, level the playing field and then balance the weapons ?
It seems a bit counter productive to fix and lower rof on weapons based on turbo controller use, wouldnt it be easier to fox turbo abuse and then see how all the weapons work ?
You are never going to balance the weapons when 1 person gets shot with turbo and the other not, but balance it as if it wasn't used with turbo, afterwards, the turbo guy will still have the same advantage as before.
When he talks about efficiency he means in match effectiveness, the ScR is getting higher KDR and lower kill times than the other weapons, this is because it's a front loaded weapon. The ScR works by doing large amounts of damage for a short period of time, they bsing incapacitated due to overheat constraints. But this creates an operational problem. The overheat is only a problem if you can't kill your opponent before you reach that overheat. In any other scenario, you've already killed that guy so what difference does it matter? Now alot of scrambler rifle user rebuke this by saying, but as soon as you put it against 2 people it's balanced. Which is a biased arguement, since their is just an equal chance their will only be one of them and two of you. Furthermore most weapons would look underpowered/balanced when pitched against 2 enemies. That's kinda the point of teamwork. Anyway I'm starting to digress, you say it balanced against 2 people, which means in order to reliably beat an ScR user of average skill, you need 2 people of average skill weilding a different set of weapons. One as cannon fodder and one to finish you off. So what happens when 8 memebers of your team run a scrambler rifle, you need 8 pairs to engage them, aka the entire enemy team, which bearing in mind their are still 8 people on your team left running around creates a serious force imbalance. We infact end up with a similar situation that tankers were in, if takes more than 1 person to reliably defeat another you get a force inbalance. Now another common rebuttal is, but there is more armour tankers than shield tankers, now whole this fact is currently true, both your self and I are aware that was never always the case, in fact shields have still being paying for that since the armour buff. But here's the thing if we look at the new Projectile profile damage of -15/+15, if shields become the most preferred tank type again, is it fair that the CR gets a damage buff in order to deal with the over popularity of shields? No? So why is it fair to give such a bonus to the ScR? Finally people use the, it's the most skilled weapon in the game, you and I both know that's a barefaced lie, the Scrambler has similar behaviour to the other 3 rifles types, their is no travel time, their is no lower accuracy or smaller shots that are more likely to miss, nothing. The only thing skillful about the ScR is not overheating but getting close to doing so. In my opinion the ScR needs a DPS only marginally better than the AR, (460 probably) and slightly slower overheat. This still gives enough DOT to kill most suits before the overheat, but skill comes intomthe equation alot more. The weapon also becomes less useful in CQC because with the low accuracy enviroment the overheat becomes a much mkre severly limiting factor. I would achieve this by nerfing both DPS and Damage to around 8 shots per second (8.45 to be precise) and the relevamt damage, 58 per shot. thats because a high alpha front loaded weapon in public contracts against opponents in stater suits with low HP means yes it is going to kill those people fast. but in PC gamemodes were people have high HP the scrambler rifle has a hard time killing before over heat. so how do you balance a gun based on one gamemode that will make it useless in a different gamemode. shouldn't the sample data be collected from both gamemodes?
Good Point, but prehaps the question should be, why are so many people stacking eHP? PC is considerably less tactical than the Master Race would have you believe.
Only the OP fits are used in PC. Once EVERYTHING is balanced, the ScR will also be balanced.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3451
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Posted - 2014.09.04 23:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
CUSE TOWN333 wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:CUSE TOWN333 wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Rei Shepherd wrote:
-The higher efficiency you talk about, does that take into the account that the weapon can overheat, because quite frankly if say an assault rifle deals 450 damage per second while it has a clip that can maintain this damage for 6 seconds and a SCR would deal 450 damage per second but can do this for 2 seconds, then what is its overheat purpose ? kick yourself to the floor while yer assaulting someone?
-the rof change will just severly hit None-turbo users as we now might have overlap in shots, turbo controller users are not gonna be affected as they do not need to think much when firing and just get the max dps at all times, where fingers are quite allot less perfect and can mess up.
I would propose to Fix the Turbo controller issue first, then see if any of the rifles, you say that more are used with Turbo, then why not FIX that first, level the playing field and then balance the weapons ?
It seems a bit counter productive to fix and lower rof on weapons based on turbo controller use, wouldnt it be easier to fox turbo abuse and then see how all the weapons work ?
You are never going to balance the weapons when 1 person gets shot with turbo and the other not, but balance it as if it wasn't used with turbo, afterwards, the turbo guy will still have the same advantage as before.
When he talks about efficiency he means in match effectiveness, the ScR is getting higher KDR and lower kill times than the other weapons, this is because it's a front loaded weapon. The ScR works by doing large amounts of damage for a short period of time, they bsing incapacitated due to overheat constraints. But this creates an operational problem. The overheat is only a problem if you can't kill your opponent before you reach that overheat. In any other scenario, you've already killed that guy so what difference does it matter? Now alot of scrambler rifle user rebuke this by saying, but as soon as you put it against 2 people it's balanced. Which is a biased arguement, since their is just an equal chance their will only be one of them and two of you. Furthermore most weapons would look underpowered/balanced when pitched against 2 enemies. That's kinda the point of teamwork. Anyway I'm starting to digress, you say it balanced against 2 people, which means in order to reliably beat an ScR user of average skill, you need 2 people of average skill weilding a different set of weapons. One as cannon fodder and one to finish you off. So what happens when 8 memebers of your team run a scrambler rifle, you need 8 pairs to engage them, aka the entire enemy team, which bearing in mind their are still 8 people on your team left running around creates a serious force imbalance. We infact end up with a similar situation that tankers were in, if takes more than 1 person to reliably defeat another you get a force inbalance. Now another common rebuttal is, but there is more armour tankers than shield tankers, now whole this fact is currently true, both your self and I are aware that was never always the case, in fact shields have still being paying for that since the armour buff. But here's the thing if we look at the new Projectile profile damage of -15/+15, if shields become the most preferred tank type again, is it fair that the CR gets a damage buff in order to deal with the over popularity of shields? No? So why is it fair to give such a bonus to the ScR? Finally people use the, it's the most skilled weapon in the game, you and I both know that's a barefaced lie, the Scrambler has similar behaviour to the other 3 rifles types, their is no travel time, their is no lower accuracy or smaller shots that are more likely to miss, nothing. The only thing skillful about the ScR is not overheating but getting close to doing so. In my opinion the ScR needs a DPS only marginally better than the AR, (460 probably) and slightly slower overheat. This still gives enough DOT to kill most suits before the overheat, but skill comes intomthe equation alot more. The weapon also becomes less useful in CQC because with the low accuracy enviroment the overheat becomes a much mkre severly limiting factor. I would achieve this by nerfing both DPS and Damage to around 8 shots per second (8.45 to be precise) and the relevamt damage, 58 per shot. thats because a high alpha front loaded weapon in public contracts against opponents in stater suits with low HP means yes it is going to kill those people fast. but in PC gamemodes were people have high HP the scrambler rifle has a hard time killing before over heat. so how do you balance a gun based on one gamemode that will make it useless in a different gamemode. shouldn't the sample data be collected from both gamemodes? Good Point, but prehaps the question should be, why are so many people stacking eHP? PC is considerably less tactical than the Master Race would have you believe. Only the OP fits are used in PC. Once EVERYTHING is balanced, the ScR will also be balanced. if only the OP fits are used in PC then why is the scrambler rifle rarely used???
The last PC match I particpated in most people had over 900 eHP, the excetion being scous who 700 eHP. This requires a greater than 60% accuracy rating in order to kill most suits.
Which when everyone is superstrafing like a pinball stuck between two bumpers, isn't easy. It's not a case of the ScR being OP, it's a case of their being more OP things out there.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Monkey MAC
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3458
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Posted - 2014.09.06 09:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Monty Mole Clone wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:It's not a case of the ScR being OP, it's a case of their being more OP things out there. you really need to make up your mind so whats more op than the scrambler and when can we see a fair assessment on those weapons?
If you look at the DPS Tuning thread, you'll see that after the changes made in DELTA all the other rifles will be balanced. Hopefully What more OP than the ScR is brick tanking, scouts with 700-800 eHP, Assault with just shy of a 1000, Heavies with nearly 1600 eHP, this shouldn't be possible especially with a PRO primary weapon equipped.
Biotic modules need serious buffs. We need more hybrid tanking modules We need more support modules.
Afterall pretty much any weapon will look UP when you pit it against someone with 2-3x your eHP
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
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Posted - 2014.09.06 19:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Monty Mole Clone wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:It's not a case of the ScR being OP, it's a case of their being more OP things out there. you really need to make up your mind so whats more op than the scrambler and when can we see a fair assessment on those weapons? If you look at the DPS Tuning thread, you'll see that after the changes made in DELTA all the other rifles will be balanced. Hopefully What more OP than the ScR is brick tanking, scouts with 700-800 eHP, Assault with just shy of a 1000, Heavies with nearly 1600 eHP, this shouldn't be possible especially with a PRO primary weapon equipped. Biotic modules need serious buffs. We need more hybrid tanking modules We need more support modules. Afterall pretty much any weapon will look UP when you pit it against someone with 2-3x your eHP Hybrid tanking is brick tanking, the only exception being stacking a rack of complex armor plates but the penalties to that most of the time outweigh the HP, specially to scouts and medium.
No no no, you misunderstand, a hybrid tanking module is the reactive plate. A little armour mixed with a low slot supporting module.
Things like Armour + CPU, Armour + CDR, Armour + Reg, Shield + PG, Shield + Codebreaker etc. Those are what I mean by 'hybrid tanking modules'.
Secondly I fully agree that 'Brick Tanking' needs to be eliminated, just so long as sensible dual tanking isn't screwed over at the same time.
After all is a 510 eHP Min PRO Assault (280 S + 230 A) really OP? There are scouts running round with more eHP than that.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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