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Why are equipment bonuses going away between suit changes?

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SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 449	Posted - 2014.03.30 21:03:00 - [1] - Quote I'm noticing that the uplinks I drop as an Amarr aren't retaining their bonus as I change suits throughout a match. As a multiracially spec'd logi who tries to adapt to ever-changing conditions on the field, I find this totally unacceptable and tactically nonsensical. Bottom line, is this an error/bug, or is this intentional? My position is this...if you drop a piece of bonus-enhanced equipment then it should retain its effectiveness for as long as it is functional. In other words, suit changes shouldn't cause previously deployed bonus-enhanced equipment to lose its efficacy. What's going on here, CCP?
C Saunders Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 605	Posted - 2014.03.30 21:05:00 - [2] - Quote Its CCP. If it aint broke. It doesnt exist. // Fully Speced Mass Driver Expert // Proto Min Scout // Closed Beta Vet // Tech Guards Sexy Beast //
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 1244	Posted - 2014.03.30 21:21:00 - [3] - Quote If this is true, then I sure am glad I didn't waste points in logis just to get bonuses that wouldn't apply when I switched suits. Phew.
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion League of Infamy 1078	Posted - 2014.03.30 21:29:00 - [4] - Quote I'm hoping that it's intentional... Why you ask? It stops people from dropping favoured equipment, switching suits, and coming back to drop more favoured equipment. You want those really good Uplinks? Well you have to stay Amarr Logistics. Once you go Black, you just never go back!
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4277	Posted - 2014.03.30 21:33:00 - [5] - Quote The Black Jackal wrote: I'm hoping that it's intentional... Why you ask? It stops people from dropping favoured equipment, switching suits, and coming back to drop more favoured equipment. You want those really good Uplinks? Well you have to stay Amarr Logistics. I hope it is intentional. Equipment spam is a plague. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1862	Posted - 2014.03.30 21:34:00 - [6] - Quote It's intentional. there was a blue post about it before 1.8 dropped. check the feedback section, it might be there. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Havaru Fox Golden Empire of EvE 103	Posted - 2014.03.30 21:38:00 - [7] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: My position is this...if you drop a piece of bonus-enhanced equipment then it should retain its effectiveness for as long as it is functional. In other words, suit changes shouldn't cause previously deployed bonus-enhanced equipment to lose its efficacy. What's going on here, CCP? And if i drop something, die, and drop more, then the old once blow up. why is my new stuff linked to my old, so it will blow up, but when you change a suit it remains on the field? i think the stuff should blow up when you change the suit OR you should be abel to drop as much as you want MSG me for a 21 day EvE trial
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 703	Posted - 2014.03.30 21:42:00 - [8] - Quote This reminds me of some questions I've seen in RPG MMO's like... If I walk away from the Totem, why can't I keep the buff? The fact I have to be within 30 meters of the healer to be healed by a proximity HOT is bogus! etc etc... If the object that gives the buff is gone, why would the buff stay? If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7740	Posted - 2014.03.30 21:44:00 - [9] - Quote It's to discourage equipment spamming which is the cause of a lot of lag these days. Imagine spawning in with a logi fitted with a lot of uplinks boosted to the max with bonuses and then spam uplinks and hives around a supply depot then swap into your typical assault/scout/sentinal/whatever suit and watch the WPs roll in while at the same time lag is being induced because of excessive spamming. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
RKKR The Southern Legion League of Infamy 855	Posted - 2014.03.30 21:44:00 - [10] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: The Black Jackal wrote: I'm hoping that it's intentional... Why you ask? It stops people from dropping favoured equipment, switching suits, and coming back to drop more favoured equipment. You want those really good Uplinks? Well you have to stay Amarr Logistics. I hope it is intentional. Equipment spam is a plague. Everyone complains if we start shooting people. Everyone complains about dropping equipment. Everyone complains that we're constantly reaping one guy. What else is there to do for a support role? + everyone misses the point. Equipment will be spammed. Bonuses or no bonuses. Staying in the same suit while all hives or uplinks are depleted = boring gameplay for support roles.

SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 449	Posted - 2014.03.30 22:02:00 - [11] - Quote I never attack people on these forums but you guys who hate equipment deployment and aggressive logi play are truly a-holes. This game should promote creativity and allow players to fully express themselves in a variety of ways. Moreover, a logi with my experience and investment into the class should be allowed to excel in the deployment of equipment. The equipment bonuses and the nerfs that came with them were more than enough to create balance, but if I'm a motivated enough support player to spec into multiple logi suits and make several trips to the supply depot to take on different roles, my equipment should be as effective throughout the match as it was when it was first deployed. This is a total fail, CCP. Think about what you are saying. So it's okay for me to switch into several iterations of an Amarr suit and spam 20 highly effective uplinks with no issues related to their efficacy, and it's okay for me to do the same with a Caldari suit and nanohives, but if I want to drop two or three uplinks in my Amarr suit and switch to a Minmatar suit for heavy support then this system dictates that my previously deployed uplinks get penalized. I don't agree with that at all. It's dumb and it devalues both my extensive investment into this class and my worth to my squad/team.
GeneralButtNaked Amarr Templars 953	Posted - 2014.03.30 22:07:00 - [12] - Quote Simple solution: Die instead of switching suits at a depot. On your next spawn, spawn minny with your rep tool. All the bonuses all for the cost of a suit. Oh, you didn't want to spend a proto suit to just get faster spawns and lots of WP while you play johnny rep tool? Tough. No free lunches. Real AV doesn't stop until all the tanks are dead.
SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 449	Posted - 2014.03.30 22:21:00 - [13] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Simple solution: Die instead of switching suits at a depot. On your next spawn, spawn minny with your rep tool. All the bonuses all for the cost of a suit. Oh, you didn't want to spend a proto suit to just get faster spawns and lots of WP while you play johnny rep tool? Tough. No free lunches. Are you familiar with the term false dichotomy? Look it up, champ.
GeneralButtNaked Amarr Templars 954	Posted - 2014.03.30 22:24:00 - [14] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: Are you familiar with the term false dichotomy? Look it up, champ. Oh no, a person from Melon Lube attempted to act smart. And failed by misusing a term. Well done, now please continue to explain why you should be able to stack bonuses across suits without dying. Real AV doesn't stop until all the tanks are dead.
SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 449	Posted - 2014.03.30 22:30:00 - [15] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: SirManBoy wrote: Are you familiar with the term false dichotomy? Look it up, champ. Oh no, a person from Melon Lube attempted to act smart. And failed by misusing a term. Well done, now please continue to explain why you should be able to stack bonuses across suits without dying. No, you explain why your choices are the only ones on offer. Why should I have to die? Again, you're offering false choices when there are other possibilities, many more logical than your premise that I...A) Get over it. or B) Die and keep the bonuses.
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 2914	Posted - 2014.03.30 22:31:00 - [16] - Quote I think it's intentional. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 3742	Posted - 2014.03.30 22:31:00 - [17] - Quote Sounds suspisiously like an equipment spammer. No.
Miokai Zahou The Southern Legion League of Infamy 158	Posted - 2014.03.30 22:35:00 - [18] - Quote Awwwww you guys and wanting all the cake and wanting to eat it. The simple thing here that of you want the bonuses on equipment 'x' bonuses to still be applied on the battlefield then you need to stay in logi suit 'y' for the full effect. Simple. Also please don't argue about under valuing your other suits/roles because that is bull crap as it is your choice to change rolls in the middle of a fight in the first place and don't argue about wasted SP either. That is also your choice to spec into those suits/equipment/weapons/stuff. CCP gave choice and different rolls between suits and my proto logi/assault/commando loves it. Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
GeneralButtNaked Amarr Templars 954	Posted - 2014.03.30 22:36:00 - [19] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: No, you explain why your choices are the only ones on offer. Why should I have to die? Again, you're offering false choices when there are other possibilities, many more logical than your premise that I...A) Get over it. or B) Die and keep the bonuses. Because CCP sucks? Why is it on me to explain why CCP produced a flying turd again? Right now, if you die in the suit, you keep the bonuses. So if you want to keep the low spawn time links, and then run a min logi for quality reps, that is how you do it. FFS, give someone a tip and watch them flap themselves into a tizzy trying to be mad. Stupid scrub. Real AV doesn't stop until all the tanks are dead.
SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 449	Posted - 2014.03.31 00:08:00 - [20] - Quote This "intended mechanic" really takes the shine off of several suits. I have all of the logi suits but under these conditions I see little reason to use something other than the Amarr suit. Sure, I don't get the rep tool, scanner, or nanohive bonus, but I have the ability to spam great uplinks and I still retain the ability to mindlessly spam a large quantity nanohives and/or use a rep tool and/or nanite injector effectively and for huge WP. What exactly is CCP stopping me from doing by locking these bonuses to the suit type? The one thing that they have done is made me far less likely to use my other logi suits. Keeping the bonuses tied to the deployed equipment could have been a cool mechanic for the thinking man's logi who wanted to fully immerse him or herself in the support role and be able to provide the right support at the right time. If anything, you're forcing me to play the spam game for quantity rather than providing a large variety of quality support. Meh. Have it your way, gang.

RKKR The Southern Legion League of Infamy 857	Posted - 2014.03.31 08:52:00 - [21] - Quote So the bonus on my equipment goes away if I switch my suit at a supply depot? Does the bonus go away if I switch to the same suit? Does the bonus go away if I switch from a PRO suit to a ADV suit? The bonus stays active when you die and switch out to another suit? That's some assbackwards **. Miokai Zahou wrote: Awwwww you guys and wanting all the cake and wanting to eat it. The simple thing here that of you want the bonuses on equipment 'x' bonuses to still be applied on the battlefield then you need to stay in logi suit 'y' for the full effect. Simple. I have no clue how it works at the moment, but that doesn't seem true if you die from reading these posts. Quote: Also please don't argue about under valuing your other suits/roles because that is bull crap as it is your choice to change rolls in the middle of a fight in the first place Changing my suits is a necessity since I'm kind of useless with zero hives on my suit. It's a problem you will always have with current (passive) support mechanics. Quote: and don't argue about wasted SP either. That is also your choice to spec into those suits/equipment/weapons/stuff. It WAS my choice to spec into equipment BEFORE** 1.8. I wonder how many people would skill up the same equipment or weapon after 1.8 with a full respect. This freedom-of-choice-myth has been debunked a long time ago in the respect threads and the only thing that is bullcrap is saying that arguing it is bullcrap.
Zaaeed Massani RisingSuns 76	Posted - 2014.03.31 09:12:00 - [22] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: If this is true, then I sure am glad I didn't waste points in logis just to get bonuses that wouldn't apply when I switched suits. Phew. ^ 3/10 Federal Marines 1/10 Republic Command Commando Pride
bamboo x Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 552	Posted - 2014.03.31 09:21:00 - [23] - Quote It'll probably work if you suicide. B.D. Wong AKA Dr. Wu returns to Jurassic Park sequel
COVERT SUBTERFUGE PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 809	Posted - 2014.03.31 10:46:00 - [24] - Quote So glad Minmatar got heals. <3 Proud Minmatar scout - Republic Merc 7/10 Immune to bitter/jaded vet syndrome Alt of THE GREY CARDINAL - eWar Merc
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 2100	Posted - 2014.03.31 10:47:00 - [25] - Quote The Black Jackal wrote: I'm hoping that it's intentional... Why you ask? It stops people from dropping favoured equipment, switching suits, and coming back to drop more favoured equipment. You want those really good Uplinks? Well you have to stay Amarr Logistics. This.
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 284	Posted - 2014.03.31 11:48:00 - [26] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: This "intended mechanic" really takes the shine off of several suits. I have all of the logi suits but under these conditions I see little reason to use something other than the Amarr suit. Sure, I don't get the rep tool, scanner, or nanohive bonus, but I have the ability to spam great uplinks and I still retain the ability to mindlessly spam a large quantity nanohives and/or use a rep tool and/or nanite injector effectively and for huge WP. What exactly is CCP stopping me from doing by locking these bonuses to the suit type? The one thing that they have done is made me far less likely to use my other logi suits. Keeping the bonuses tied to the deployed equipment could have been a cool mechanic for the thinking man's logi who wanted to fully immerse him or herself in the support role and be able to provide the right support at the right time. If anything, you're forcing me to play the spam game for quantity rather than providing a large variety of quality support. Meh. Have it your way, gang. Like you yourself said, providing the right support at the right time: that is how things are now. What you really want is to be able to provide all kinds of support with the highest bonuses at all times. Right now you have to choose which kind of support you want to give effectively at any given time. So you are telling me you would not spam equipment if you got to keep the bonus if you switch suits? Lol, right... R.I.P. Pre-1.7 tanks, you will be missed.
Horizen Kenpachi Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 250	Posted - 2014.03.31 11:53:00 - [27] - Quote I imagine its to stop u spamming all eq at suppy depot then running of in a attacking suit giving u a logi wps while filling another role stay in ur logi suit and stop spamming earn ur isk the hard way Hit me with your nerf bat.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2544	Posted - 2014.03.31 12:02:00 - [28] - Quote The bigger issue is this: I don't think the bonus stays if you die, which is stupid. Might be a bug, might not. Am I supposed to drop the uplinks and then AFK the rest of the match? What if I die and switch to a different suit when I respawn? Then what? This is also a huge nerf to the Amarr and Caldari logi suits because our bonuses are now worthless compared to gal/min. Finally, spammers don't care about how well the equipment works, people. Equipment will be spammed regardless, and guess what? you high-horse sitters will gladly use it all the same when you die or run out of ammo. It's simply hypocrisy to say otherwise. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 1247	Posted - 2014.03.31 12:13:00 - [29] - Quote The thing is, it doesn't stop spamming. It's a big middle finger to guys who specced into that equipment just for the bonus, but other than that, it actually encourages MORE spamming (in the case of nanohives, since your hives are 2/3rds as effective previously, you will spam more at the supply depot) or use of lower level equipment (in the case of uplinks, since aside from the flux links, there isn't a significant difference between 12 and 11 seconds, for advanced and proto uplinks). If I were a new character or had a full respec in 1.8, I wouldn't even bother getting uplinks to proto (Lv4 is adequate) or active scanners at all. Nanohives are still worth it though, simply for spammability at depots or if you're not afraid of burning ISK out in the field.
Twelve Guage Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 219	Posted - 2014.03.31 12:19:00 - [30] - Quote This has to be in intended because it makes no sense for you guys to keep a bonus to your suit when you're not in it. Suit bonuses go with the suit how people didn't realize this before going into the suit is is beyond me. I mean really that's like saying your assault suit should get a reduction to cloaks because you have skilled into a scout suit fully. If you want your suit bonuses to work stay in your suit the whole match. It's as simple as that. Death Firm recruiter and sandwiches maker. You're been like by Twelve Gauge = her grabbing your @$$.

M1tch Rapp Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 69	Posted - 2014.03.31 13:12:00 - [31] - Quote Twelve Guage wrote: This has to be in intended because it makes no sense for you guys to keep a bonus to your suit when you're not in it. Suit bonuses go with the suit how people didn't realize this before going into the suit is is beyond me. I mean really that's like saying your assault suit should get a reduction to cloaks because you have skilled into a scout suit fully. If you want your suit bonuses to work stay in your suit the whole match. It's as simple as that. Equipment not suit bonuses. You are looking at a 9.6 million SP investment just in logi suits to become an ultimate logi. Let's say the dude spawns first in an uplink suit. He puts out 3 or 4 well placed uplinks and proceeds to the supply depot. The places a few triage and ammo hives around the point. Let's say then that the point is being attacked so he/she dies and decides to come in with his min logi to throw down some reps. I just don't see the abuse in this form of gameplay. But I will say that the tone and the actions of CCP in regards to logi caused me to move away from logi. I think the changes were terrible and it's apparent by the lack of logi being done in most matches. Personally I think it would be much better if there were one or two types of each equipment with skills that boost said equipment. This way you can't spam equipment. If there are only two types of nanohives (two or three max deployed) it would eliminate spam and still give the ability to bonus super logis who have invested heavily into logi.
ER-Bullitt Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1292	Posted - 2014.03.31 13:23:00 - [32] - Quote Pretty crumby. Yeah yeah equipment spam sucks, blah blah. But for the dudes who just so happened to not read a tiny note somewhere on the forums regarding this issue, before speccing into all 4 proto logi suits, I feel for you guys. Trying to be the ultimate support players and getting the shaft for it. for shame CCP, for shame.
SteelheadPep SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 82	Posted - 2014.03.31 13:28:00 - [33] - Quote So, they force support logis to skill into different race suits to be able to supple our teams on par with before 1.8, now we do not receive the bonus after skilling into multi suits. Maybe CCP should have made that clear before the respec,and i think it is funny the mercs that are gloating about it, because they are the first ones to complain when they have to spawn in on a slow up link, use a crappy nanohive,unable to get a decent scan,etc..CCP this is supposed to be a team game not COD, Most people stop playing COD after the first week,think about it. I will still try to place (not spam) the best equip. for my team regardless of the selffish trolls that seem to lurk in these forums, see you on the field.
M1tch Rapp Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 69	Posted - 2014.03.31 13:47:00 - [34] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: SirManBoy wrote: Are you familiar with the term false dichotomy? Look it up, champ. Oh no, a person from Melon Lube attempted to act smart. And failed by misusing a term. Well done, now please continue to explain why you should be able to stack bonuses across suits without dying. I'd say he pretty much crushed you. And I can almost guarantee that the person you are attempting to mentally joust with will own you going forward. Sometimes it's best to understand that you are outmatched mentally and just move on.
Scar Scrilla UN1TED NATIONS Caps and Mercs 209	Posted - 2014.03.31 14:15:00 - [35] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: The Black Jackal wrote: I'm hoping that it's intentional... Why you ask? It stops people from dropping favoured equipment, switching suits, and coming back to drop more favoured equipment. You want those really good Uplinks? Well you have to stay Amarr Logistics. I hope it is intentional. Equipment spam is a plague. Tell me how this can prevent from equipment spam. I still "spam" with Callogi and Amarrlogi, but the skills won't apply. The spam stays the same lol....and if u consider the logis' bread and butter (carrying and dropping equipment) as spam u might have gotten something wrong... "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses" "Go and hack the letter(s)" - Join our public channel: UN1TE
Byozuma Kegawa Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 207	Posted - 2014.03.31 14:25:00 - [36] - Quote I'm surprised at the lack of common sense in people these days. So you skilled into Amarr Logistics to take advantage of the new equipment bonus. The bonus isn't attached to the dropsuit, though. It's part of the new Amarr Logistics skill, the Amarr dropsuit conveys the bonus to the equipment. The skill AND dropsuit are what makes the bonus work. If you drop the uplink and switch dropsuits there's nothing conveying the bonus. Just like how putting a scrambler rifle on anything but an Amarr assault or commando dropsuit will get you no benefits against heat or what have you. Now, if your switched fit is another Amarr logistics dropsuit then those uplinks will work as expect and you don't have to cart around unneeded equipment.
Asha Starwind DUST University Ivy League 684	Posted - 2014.03.31 14:34:00 - [37] - Quote Why should it retain the bonus when you change suits? It is a bonus of the suit not the equipment. So if you are not wearing the suit the specific bonus is not in effect. Mad Bomber - 50% less profile Return dumbfire to Swarms
RKKR The Southern Legion League of Infamy 859	Posted - 2014.03.31 15:00:00 - [38] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Why should it retain the bonus when you change suits? It is a bonus of the suit not the equipment. So if you are not wearing the suit the specific bonus is not in effect. Why should the bonus be active when the suit isn't even near the equipment. Why should equipment stay alive when we die? Come on CCP...I know you can make it even worse and more boring to play a support role.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 3216	Posted - 2014.03.31 15:10:00 - [39] - Quote I'd say it was a good thing I went FoTM with the GAL Scout instead of adding the CAL Logi to my Amar Logi, but in truth it doesn't matter at this point as I'm taking an indefinite break. After working so hard for 40M SP and nearly maxing out both Dropsuit and Vehicle Upgrades I'm no longer having fun and I can't think of a thing that SP could buy to change that. I was lured by promises of a deep tactical RTS MMO/FPS and all I got was a low count lobby shooter that doesn't have anything to encourage true team play. Outside of PC It's all headless chickens running around going for kills, and inside it's mostly abusing the mechanics to farm ISK to stomp in pubs. CCP has demonstrated with the latest round of nerfs that they have not a clue what to do about the role of vehicles. They seem to have settled on balancing them 1v1 with the dropsuit which is about all they can do without the ability to give them non-overlapping roles with infantry. That makes the ADS an even larger hole in my wallet than it was. I'll watch Fanfest for indication that CCP has either embraced their original promise or has abandoned that for a simple lobby shooter. Even if it's the former I don't expect them to make any meaningful progress for another year or two.
Disturbingly Bored Forum Warfare 2133	Posted - 2014.03.31 15:19:00 - [40] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: If anything, you're forcing me to play the spam game for quantity rather than providing a large variety of quality support. Agree, that's a major problem. I think a player who dumps the large amount of SP into multiple racial suits to support his team better should be able to enjoy the bonuses of all of them. As it stands, the smartest thing to do is toss down drop uplinks on a cheap fit and then RE yourself to quickly switch to the next. (Not what you had in mind, was it Devs?) I used to own the FAT GAT until this --> [ASCII Art removed - *draconian forum overlord* CCP Logibro]

M1tch Rapp Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 71	Posted - 2014.03.31 15:26:00 - [41] - Quote RKKR wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Why should it retain the bonus when you change suits? It is a bonus of the suit not the equipment. So if you are not wearing the suit the specific bonus is not in effect. Why should the bonus be active when the suit isn't even near the equipment. Why should equipment stay alive when we die? Come on CCP...I know you can make it even worse and more boring to play a support role. I honestly hope they make that change. That way NOBODY EVER throws down any equipment. It would be great. You'd have to either die or go all the way back to a supply depot to get stuff. Sounds fun
LAVALLOIS Nash QcGOLD 60	Posted - 2014.03.31 15:38:00 - [42] - Quote CCP is being very petty in this case. They wanted to nerf everyones equipment unless you are wearing the racial dropsuit. They did this without refunding the SP. Why should someone be penalized for putting millions of SP into Am Logi or Min logi? What if they did so because they already had a million tied up in uplinks and repair tools? Understand that a good logi has to have more than 1 tool on him. The logi suits come with several equipment slots with this in mind. Droplinks is not a full time job. One logi role shouldn't diminish another. Also, as far as equipment spamming goes, this new penalty encourages an Amarr to carry 3 drop uplinks instead of 1 drop, 1 nano, and 1 repair/injector. That means that the Amarr will be playing 33% more uplinks per match. So this new system actually encourages equipment spam and leads to more of it.
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 4979	Posted - 2014.03.31 15:44:00 - [43] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: I'm noticing that the uplinks I drop as an Amarr aren't retaining their bonus as I change suits throughout a match. As a multiracially spec'd logi who tries to adapt to ever-changing conditions on the field, I find this totally unacceptable and tactically nonsensical. Bottom line, is this an error/bug, or is this intentional? My position is this...if you drop a piece of bonus-enhanced equipment then it should retain its effectiveness for as long as it is functional. In other words, suit changes shouldn't cause previously deployed bonus-enhanced equipment to lose its efficacy. What's going on here, CCP? That's intentional. The bonus only applies while you're using the suit it's applied to. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Asha Starwind DUST University Ivy League 686	Posted - 2014.03.31 16:09:00 - [44] - Quote RKKR wrote: Why should the bonus be active when the suit isn't even near the equipment. Becausethere is a difference the suit is in play and not sitting in your inventory. Quote: Why should equipment stay alive when we die? Equipment death on respawn is something I would like to see implemented, would solve the eq spam problem once and for all. Mad Bomber - 50% less profile Return dumbfire to Swarms
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 381	Posted - 2014.03.31 16:17:00 - [45] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: It's to discourage equipment spamming which is the cause of a lot of lag these days. Imagine spawning in with a logi fitted with a lot of uplinks boosted to the max with bonuses and then spam uplinks and hives around a supply depot then swap into your typical assault/scout/sentinal/whatever suit and watch the WPs roll in while at the same time lag is being induced because of excessive spamming. I don't see how this impacts equipment span at all, especially if the intent is to lag the game. I specced into Amarri and Minmatar Logi with the idea of using links then when I die switching to Min to heal, why should I be discouraged from that. How does eliminating my bonus prevent equipment spam? Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 381	Posted - 2014.03.31 16:23:00 - [46] - Quote I really think they are trying to eliminate the logi suit. I can do a logi job better from either a scout suit or a heavy suit if equipment doesn't get a bonus passively. I'd give up my Min bonus to be able to stay alive longer and I don't want to play Amarri and be slow and die so my team can spawn a little faster. Because, that's why.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 3217	Posted - 2014.03.31 16:30:00 - [47] - Quote I'd like some clarification. Do you simply have to be wearing any Amar Logi suit on respawn to retain the bonus, or do you have to also equip the exact model of uplink to retain the bonus? If the former, it forces you to maintain the racial suit but allows you to use different equipment. If the latter it basically says "deploy your equipment and go hide in the corner".
Twelve Guage Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 222	Posted - 2014.03.31 16:47:00 - [48] - Quote M1tch Rapp wrote: Twelve Guage wrote: This has to be in intended because it makes no sense for you guys to keep a bonus to your suit when you're not in it. Suit bonuses go with the suit how people didn't realize this before going into the suit is is beyond me. I mean really that's like saying your assault suit should get a reduction to cloaks because you have skilled into a scout suit fully. If you want your suit bonuses to work stay in your suit the whole match. It's as simple as that. Equipment not suit bonuses. You are looking at a 9.6 million SP investment just in logi suits to become an ultimate logi. Let's say the dude spawns first in an uplink suit. He puts out 3 or 4 well placed uplinks and proceeds to the supply depot. The places a few triage and ammo hives around the point. Let's say then that the point is being attacked so he/she dies and decides to come in with his min logi to throw down some reps. I just don't see the abuse in this form of gameplay. But I will say that the tone and the actions of CCP in regards to logi caused me to move away from logi. I think the changes were terrible and it's apparent by the lack of logi being done in most matches. Personally I think it would be much better if there were one or two types of each equipment with skills that boost said equipment. This way you can't spam equipment. If there are only two types of nanohives (two or three max deployed) it would eliminate spam and still give the ability to bonus super logis who have invested heavily into logi. I happen to think that the tone and action of CCP in this case is to encourage diversity among the logistics class. What is the point to our suits if all we have to do is go to the supply depot to get a bonus. Death Firm recruiter and sandwiches maker. You're been like by Twelve Gauge = her grabbing your @$$.
Mortedeamor Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1471	Posted - 2014.03.31 16:58:00 - [49] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: This "intended mechanic" really takes the shine off of several suits. I have all of the logi suits but under these conditions I see little reason to use something other than the Amarr suit. Sure, I don't get the rep tool, scanner, or nanohive bonus, but I have the ability to spam great uplinks and I still retain the ability to mindlessly spam a large quantity nanohives and/or use a rep tool and/or nanite injector effectively and for huge WP. What exactly is CCP stopping me from doing by locking these bonuses to the suit type? The one thing that they have done is made me far less likely to use my other logi suits. Keeping the bonuses tied to the deployed equipment could have been a cool mechanic for the thinking man's logi who wanted to fully immerse him or herself in the support role and be able to provide the right support at the right time. If anything, you're forcing me to play the spam game for quantity rather than providing a large variety of quality support. Meh. Have it your way, gang. u wanna know what this does...it makes it so when i swap to my logi and spam my **** out its all lower quality..which does not effect me at all...i still get the same wp for each spawn and each increment of hp healed ..personally i dont even wait for my skill bonus to kick in when i swap..i simply swap spam the gear with no bonus and swap back why... because it doesnt hurt me...sure i my gain wp slower off the uplinks but that doesnt bother me... op u should just stop caring...its not like u dont get wp from the gear..and if it hurts anyone it hurts the team not the logi after all these equips we spam are not for us they are for you.. so if their quality dips...that hurts the team not the logi...im not wasteing my time sitting there in one of the most exp roles in dust just to wait for the skill bonus soo the team can get better spawns...not like those 3 sec spawns give me more wp for being 3 sec spawns.. A laser rifle master for life not just for when it becomes popular Long Live the Empress Burn the Heretics
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 382	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:12:00 - [50] - Quote What it means is that when I play Amarri Logi ALL I am going to do is lay uplinks. I'll put down 8 links then hide. Ok, I won't do that but I should. To me this makes no sense, since equipment isn't tied to a clones life, why should the bonus be? I get WP for links I laid down even if I die and spawn in my heavy suit, why should the stats of that link change because I switched suits. There is no consistency. Because, that's why.

Villanor Aquarius WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 168	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:19:00 - [51] - Quote I feel that the equipment should stay at the functional level it was deployed at. If a amarr logi drops 5 links their performance should remain exactly the same as long as they are on the field. The equipment is bonused not some suit that maintains bonuses on equipment. That seems like poor design and doesn't make sense.
Jack Kittinger Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 205	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:20:00 - [52] - Quote On bonuses: If it was previously stated that bonus sticks to your suit not the equipment then the best step is to file a petition, on the other hand thanks for the heads up, OP, I was just about to spend some hefty SP into trying this. Twelve Guage wrote: I happen to think that the tone and action of CCP in this case is to encourage diversity among the logistics class. What is the point to our suits if all we have to do is go to the supply depot to get a bonus.No other class of people is asking for what you guys are asking for why should it be any different because you're a logi. diversity: don't take this personal but staying in a suit that only excels at one piece of equipment to attempt to RepRezResupply is not appealing, to say the least. What is the point to our suits if all we have to do is go to the supply depot to get a bonus this question is on every logi's head, you inadvertently are feelin it man What logis ask for: I interpret that what logis are asking for is: After spending SP to level 4/5 on Nanohives/Uplinks/RepTools/Scans you changed the equipment to work subpar and restricted it to one suit, arbitrarily. Therefore we ask to be able to spend SP into Dropsuit command to use that bonus(say Alogi for Uplinks) and then after spending SP on more than one suit to use another piece of equipment with best possible stats(GalLogi for Scans) we would like those uplinks to be optimal because it was already deployed, my current suit seems trivial to how a piece of equipment works. TL;DR Logis ask that equipment used, after spending the needed SP, remains optimal because the bonus/suit/equipment was earned thru wasting SP Proud winner of the 'Templar BPO Raffle' by Castor Crave!! Lucky Number 29
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 358	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:26:00 - [53] - Quote It really upsets me when things like this make it into the game without being explicitly defined in the patch notes or anywhere. What about switching between AUR or LP suits of the same suit class or level? I switch between ADV and PRO to throw down PRO level nanohives that are too hard to fit on the ADV suits, and now I have to assume CCP is trying to screw me on the logi bonus, and I will have to test these things myself...I doubt the devs even know. There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
Asha Starwind DUST University Ivy League 686	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:50:00 - [54] - Quote Luk Manag wrote: It really upsets me when things like this make it into the game without being explicitly defined in the patch notes or anywhere. What about switching between AUR or LP suits of the same suit class or level? I switch between ADV and PRO to throw down PRO level nanohives that are too hard to fit on the ADV suits, and now I have to assume CCP is trying to screw me on the logi bonus, and I will have to test these things myself...I doubt the devs even know. What are you talking about? You get whatever bonus you are spec'd up to regardless of suit tier. Mad Bomber - 50% less profile Return dumbfire to Swarms
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2549	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:51:00 - [55] - Quote Personally I feel like the cal and amarr logi bonus should work like this: the characteristics of the equipment are a static value that are set when it is dropped. It should be based on the bonus and the type of uplink, and not change for the life of the item. Now, if you wanted to put some type of restrictions, say, you can't swap out at a supply depot for a few minutes for the bonus to be permanent, I can live with it. But what if I switch to a different Amarr logi suit? Should I still keep the bonus? If yes, how have we accomplished the alleged goal of reducing equipment spam? My big problem though is that it has seemed to me like if I die, the bonus is lost. That's a total BS mechanic. Don't want me to swap out all day at a supply depot? Ok, sure, whatever. Sounds fair, after all It's not like tankers can just recall their vehicles when they get damaged, or sentinels swap out when their armor is toast, or commando's when they've already used their nanohive.... hmm. oh wait, yes they can. Still I can live with it. Idgaf about my KDR anyway, so I'm happy to strap some RE's or a MD on my uplink suit and go in rambo style and see if I can take 1 or 2 reds with me before I go down in a blaze of glory. At least let the goddamn bonus stay in that case. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2549	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:56:00 - [56] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Luk Manag wrote: It really upsets me when things like this make it into the game without being explicitly defined in the patch notes or anywhere. What about switching between AUR or LP suits of the same suit class or level? I switch between ADV and PRO to throw down PRO level nanohives that are too hard to fit on the ADV suits, and now I have to assume CCP is trying to screw me on the logi bonus, and I will have to test these things myself...I doubt the devs even know. What are you talking about? You get whatever bonus you are spec'd up to regardless of suit tier. What he's asking is, if he spawns in with a proto suit so he can carry the proto links, then switches at a supply depot to a different amarr logi suit, say maybe an ADV one, does the bonus stay? Different suit, but still an Amarr logi. How should that work? "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
Jack Kittinger Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 206	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:57:00 - [57] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Luk Manag wrote: --_---___--___---_- What are you talking about? You get whatever bonus you are spec'd up to regardless of suit tier. I know!! that's why I loved my STD BPO's... before they changed the skill bonuses. but judging by the way people talked about their fittings when spamming equipment I supposed that had changed as well... Proud winner of the 'Templar BPO Raffle' by Castor Crave!! Lucky Number 29
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 382	Posted - 2014.03.31 18:02:00 - [58] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Simple solution: Die instead of switching suits at a depot. On your next spawn, spawn minny with your rep tool. All the bonuses all for the cost of a suit. Oh, you didn't want to spend a proto suit to just get faster spawns and lots of WP while you play johnny rep tool? Tough. No free lunches. That is not a solution if the same rules apply, and my team benefits from the cost of me providing faster spawns, I get the same WP from militia links. Because, that's why.
RKKR The Southern Legion League of Infamy 864	Posted - 2014.03.31 18:04:00 - [59] - Quote This threads shows who plays a support logi and who doesn't and if you really need to ask why logi-players are asking for this...read the goddamn feedback threads on equipment and dropsuit-changes...you'll only read that the CPU/PG reduction bonus was awesome and that the rest is utter bullshit...and on top of that we get this crap? Go cloak yourself or camp a room with a heavy, you won't get it.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 382	Posted - 2014.03.31 18:13:00 - [60] - Quote I guess I should confirm that this is even true before commenting further but this only affects Cal and Amarri logis. The Amarri logi bonus is the only bonus in the entire game that primarily affects the team rather than the player. I can throw down links for WP, I throw good links and am trying to get a bonus for my team, not me. The same way I hunt for good placement where spawns will be safe or impact the game. The latter gets me killed, lots. I am going to have to check into this further, it defies common sense. Because, that's why.

M1tch Rapp Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 72	Posted - 2014.03.31 19:07:00 - [61] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: I guess I should confirm that this is even true before commenting further but this only affects Cal and Amarri logis. The Amarri logi bonus is the only bonus in the entire game that primarily affects the team rather than the player. I can throw down links for WP, I throw good links and am trying to get a bonus for my team, not me. The same way I hunt for good placement where spawns will be safe or impact the game. The latter gets me killed, lots. I am going to have to check into this further, it defies common sense. It doesn't defy common sense, it's directly related to the massive QQ that goes on in these forums in regards to logis. Whether it's the dude who doesn't like being below a logi who only managed 3 or 4 kills or the dude who got killed by someone in a logi suit. The life of the logi will only get worse as they figure out what they are going to do with the slot layouts on the logi suits. That's why I don't mess with it. The only thing I throw down anymore is a nanohive for myself and occasionally I'll throw down a now ****** uplink to try and get blueberries to spawn on an outside objective so all 16 players aren't sitting at the supply depot wondering why we aren't winning the match.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 3218	Posted - 2014.03.31 19:16:00 - [62] - Quote The logi risks his suit to lay equipment in useful locations. High tier uplinks cost beaucoup bucks and I regulary lose ADV suits with three types of links on them while trying to get my team into position. Once I get most of them laid out I don't want to spend more time in that suit than I have to. Not only is it expensive to lose, but it isn't good for much else as the CPU/PG requirement for those high end toys preclude much in the way of defense or offense. I spend quite a bit of time deploying wisely and only later swap out to a healing or other support role. If I lose all advantage of the Amar suit after I swap out for a more active role then there is no point in using it. I may as well use my faster GAL Scout for that task as it's faster can tank more, and has two of the three slots that the ADV Logi has. It's got the Light weapon and Sidearm slots of the Amar. The Logi suit ceases to offer an advantage.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7842	Posted - 2014.03.31 19:19:00 - [63] - Quote Honestly all equipment should be destroyed if you change suits and that piece of equipment is not fitted on the new suit. Think of it as the equipment requiring energy from the suit (PG and CPU) and when connection to that energy source is lost the equipment is destroyed. Would go a long ways in ending equipment spam. Amarr Victor
GeneralButtNaked Amarr Templars 984	Posted - 2014.03.31 19:24:00 - [64] - Quote Jack Kittinger wrote: What logis ask for: I interpret that what logis are asking for is: After spending SP to level 4/5 on Nanohives/Uplinks/RepTools/Scans you changed the equipment to work subpar and restricted it to one suit, arbitrarily. Therefore we ask to be able to spend SP into Dropsuit command to use that bonus(say Alogi for Uplinks) and then after spending SP on more than one suit to use another piece of equipment with best possible stats(GalLogi for Scans) we would like those uplinks to be optimal because it was already deployed, my current suit seems trivial to how a piece of equipment works. TL;DR Logis ask that equipment used, after spending the needed SP, remains optimal because the bonus/suit/equipment was earned thru wasting SP The equipment is not restricted to one suit. It is optimized for one suit. You restrict it to one suit because you want to make an argument, but it falls apart because you are falsely setting restrictions that don't exist. Stuff gets nerfed. Deal with it. Real AV doesn't stop until all the tanks are dead.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 3220	Posted - 2014.03.31 19:32:00 - [65] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Honestly all equipment should be destroyed if you change suits and that piece of equipment is not fitted on the new suit. Think of it as the equipment requiring energy from the suit (PG and CPU) and when connection to that energy source is lost the equipment is destroyed. Would go a long ways in ending equipment spam. It certainly will because deploying equipment and then standing around with your thumb up your ass is one of the most boring ways to play a FPS. it would discourage anyone from carrying much in the way of deployable equipment if it significantly affected his survivability due to high fitting cost. If you are looking to make deployables a very small part of being a logi, then yes you have chosen an effective method.
RKKR The Southern Legion League of Infamy 865	Posted - 2014.03.31 19:52:00 - [66] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: The equipment is not restricted to one suit. It is optimized for one suit. You restrict it to one suit because you want to make an argument, but it falls apart because you are falsely setting restrictions that don't exist. Stuff gets nerfed. Deal with it. Once there was this guy that came down from Manus Peak and gave the logis a stone tablet with the 5 R's (Rezz, Repair, Reinforce, Resupply and Rally). Noone complained about the logi doing the 5 R's. Hell we even got a lot of hate threads on this forum for not doing our job. Then there came the day were a guy thought it was a good idea to 'balance' equipment. Thank you slayerlogies, thank you CCP for making bad decisions...the logies are bleeding out...waiting for CCP to make the final blow on the logi suit. People did complain at how they had to do it, but that's the nature of the crappy game mechanics not the logis themselves.
Meee One Hello Kitty Commandos 643	Posted - 2014.03.31 19:57:00 - [67] - Quote After squadding up with the OP,i can vouch that he isn't an equipment spammer. In fact if he didn't throw down uplinks in various places there wouldn't have been any on the field,in many of the matches we played together. I game over like a boss.
SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 462	Posted - 2014.03.31 20:04:00 - [68] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Honestly all equipment should be destroyed if you change suits and that piece of equipment is not fitted on the new suit. Think of it as the equipment requiring energy from the suit (PG and CPU) and when connection to that energy source is lost the equipment is destroyed. Would go a long ways in ending equipment spam. Congrats, your idea just destroyed the logistics class. Your prize is no support. Ever.
M1tch Rapp Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 73	Posted - 2014.03.31 20:16:00 - [69] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Honestly all equipment should be destroyed if you change suits and that piece of equipment is not fitted on the new suit. Think of it as the equipment requiring energy from the suit (PG and CPU) and when connection to that energy source is lost the equipment is destroyed. Would go a long ways in ending equipment spam. Congrats, your idea just destroyed the logistics class. Your prize is no support. Ever. I think what he is saying makes a little sense if you are thinking about it in a realistic sense, but it's a video game. And this information about the equipment bonus sticking to the suit should have been in 5 font sizes bigger, underlined, in italics, and bold in the opening lines of the equipment blog.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 119	Posted - 2014.03.31 20:32:00 - [70] - Quote I like how the tone seems to be that you cannot be an all around support logi. It's min maxing efficiencies and being pissed that CCP said, "We didn't intend for one logi to be able to do everything a logi can do." You know, you can use a rep tool on a different logi, hell you can rep on a scout. If you want to play TF2 and sit on a heavy and rep spam then run a minnie logi. If you want to be generally useful and actually help more than just one guy on your team making a 1.5 force multiplier then learn to spread the love and be an actual support logi. All I see in this thread is players who were **** at fps games not wanting to have their easy mode turn into something that requires effort and skill. Logis when used properly, IE not 90% of you jokers, are massive advantages even in their current form. Or did you think clone count, spawn positioning, ammo reps, armor reps, scanners showing enemy positions none of this really helps unless you get that little bit extra for every equip right? There are so many things wrong right now in this game, logis aren't one of them, you guys have just been spoiled for far too long. I expect to hear the same QQ on hardeners from tank spammers as well, so we better clear out some more room and put this thread to bed.

RKKR The Southern Legion League of Infamy 866	Posted - 2014.03.31 20:40:00 - [71] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: I like how the tone seems to be that you cannot be an all around support logi. It's min maxing efficiencies and being pissed that CCP said, "We didn't intend for one logi to be able to do everything a logi can do." You know, you can use a rep tool on a different logi, hell you can rep on a scout. If you want to play TF2 and sit on a heavy and rep spam then run a minnie logi. If you want to be generally useful and actually help more than just one guy on your team making a 1.5 force multiplier then learn to spread the love and be an actual support logi. All I see in this thread is players who were **** at fps games not wanting to have their easy mode turn into something that requires effort and skill. Logis when used properly, IE not 90% of you jokers, are massive advantages even in their current form. Or did you think clone count, spawn positioning, ammo reps, armor reps, scanners showing enemy positions none of this really helps unless you get that little bit extra for every equip right? There are so many things wrong right now in this game, logis aren't one of them, you guys have just been spoiled for far too long. I expect to hear the same QQ on hardeners from tank spammers as well, so we better clear out some more room and put this thread to bed. All i See in this post is a player who puts all logis in the "ooh-you-can't-play-fps"-camp. Remember nano hives in Chromosome? Did anyone complain? Remember nano hives in Uprising <1.8? I'm sure you know how quick a hive can go empty since you can tell the difference between a good and bad logi . We're forced to use proto-level equipment while everyone else can still use their standard weapons to kill people as effectively.
ER-Bullitt Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1300	Posted - 2014.03.31 20:42:00 - [72] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: The equipment is not restricted to one suit. It is optimized for one suit. You restrict it to one suit because you want to make an argument, but it falls apart because you are falsely setting restrictions that don't exist. Stuff gets nerfed. Deal with it. I respect your opinion. But regarding your last sentence, the problem was that CCP kind of didn't make this known very well to everyone who doesn't search the forums for one post. This change should have been plastered in bold print at the top of the 1.8 change list. And it wasn't. So folks went ahead and spent millions of SP without the knowledge to make an educated decision. That is failure, and logi's who simply want to support other players (like you) shouldn't have to deal with THAT. Hence the point of this thread, I think.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 119	Posted - 2014.03.31 20:43:00 - [73] - Quote RKKR wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: I like how the tone seems to be that you cannot be an all around support logi. It's min maxing efficiencies and being pissed that CCP said, "We didn't intend for one logi to be able to do everything a logi can do." You know, you can use a rep tool on a different logi, hell you can rep on a scout. If you want to play TF2 and sit on a heavy and rep spam then run a minnie logi. If you want to be generally useful and actually help more than just one guy on your team making a 1.5 force multiplier then learn to spread the love and be an actual support logi. All I see in this thread is players who were **** at fps games not wanting to have their easy mode turn into something that requires effort and skill. Logis when used properly, IE not 90% of you jokers, are massive advantages even in their current form. Or did you think clone count, spawn positioning, ammo reps, armor reps, scanners showing enemy positions none of this really helps unless you get that little bit extra for every equip right? There are so many things wrong right now in this game, logis aren't one of them, you guys have just been spoiled for far too long. I expect to hear the same QQ on hardeners from tank spammers as well, so we better clear out some more room and put this thread to bed. All i See in this post is a player who puts all logis in the "ooh-you-can't-play-fps"-camp. Remember nano hives in Chromosome? Did anyone complain? Remember nano hives in Uprising <1.8? I'm sure you know how quick a hive can go empty since you can tell the difference between a good and bad logi . We're forced to use proto-level equipment while everyone else can still use their standard weapons to kill people as effectively. Well all I really can say since it's a difference of opinion is: >We're forced to use proto-level equipment In PCs, sure that's what errybody does. In pubbies, no you don't, you never need proto anything in a pubby. You don't have to use any proto gear unless you're bad at the game and need it. I'll see your I need proto gear to not suck and I'll raise you a well I guess you suck then. Edit: Because I know it might be coming, I didn't say you can't use proto gear in pubbys but seriously you don't "need" it. If you do, you are bad.
RKKR The Southern Legion League of Infamy 866	Posted - 2014.03.31 21:01:00 - [74] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: RKKR wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: I like how the tone seems to be that you cannot be an all around support logi. It's min maxing efficiencies and being pissed that CCP said, "We didn't intend for one logi to be able to do everything a logi can do." You know, you can use a rep tool on a different logi, hell you can rep on a scout. If you want to play TF2 and sit on a heavy and rep spam then run a minnie logi. If you want to be generally useful and actually help more than just one guy on your team making a 1.5 force multiplier then learn to spread the love and be an actual support logi. All I see in this thread is players who were **** at fps games not wanting to have their easy mode turn into something that requires effort and skill. Logis when used properly, IE not 90% of you jokers, are massive advantages even in their current form. Or did you think clone count, spawn positioning, ammo reps, armor reps, scanners showing enemy positions none of this really helps unless you get that little bit extra for every equip right? There are so many things wrong right now in this game, logis aren't one of them, you guys have just been spoiled for far too long. I expect to hear the same QQ on hardeners from tank spammers as well, so we better clear out some more room and put this thread to bed. All i See in this post is a player who puts all logis in the "ooh-you-can't-play-fps"-camp. Remember nano hives in Chromosome? Did anyone complain? Remember nano hives in Uprising <1.8? I'm sure you know how quick a hive can go empty since you can tell the difference between a good and bad logi . We're forced to use proto-level equipment while everyone else can still use their standard weapons to kill people as effectively. Well all I really can say since it's a difference of opinion is: >We're forced to use proto-level equipment In PCs, sure that's what errybody does. In pubbies, no you don't, you never need proto anything in a pubby. You don't have to use any proto gear unless you're bad at the game and need it. I'll see your I need proto gear to not suck and I'll raise you a well I guess you suck then. Edit: Because I know it might be coming, I didn't say you can't use proto gear in pubbys but seriously you don't "need" it. If you do, you are bad. Yes I would suck, I wouldn't be able to support my squad with that advanced nanohive for more than 2 min before I need to search a nearby supply depot to restock which means I'm out of the battle-zone. Because nano hives being depleted in an eye blink is no difference in opinion, it's a fact. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 3222	Posted - 2014.03.31 21:08:00 - [75] - Quote What it means is that anyone doing much at all with deployable equipment is going to be it siting on his hands most of the match. Any suit with a significant investment in hives and uplinks is going to be expensive and somewhat squishy, making it a very poor choice for the front line. Instead of swapping out for a more active suit you would be better off cooling your heels back at base. That is boring as hell, so what will happen is a migration from the Logi suit to the Scout suit for deployment. The Scout has two slots now and enough fitting to make good use of them. It's also faster and stronger and possesses a lower profile and higher precision. The lack of equipment bonus doesn't matter because the Logi suit effectively loses it after you put it away. The Scout makes an ideal logistics platform.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 120	Posted - 2014.03.31 21:13:00 - [76] - Quote Skihids wrote: What it means is that anyone doing much at all with deployable equipment is going to be siting on his hands most of the match. Any suit with a significant investment in hives and uplinks is going to be expensive and somewhat squishy, making it a very poor choice for the front line. Instead of swapping out for a more active suit you would be better off cooling your heels back at base. That is boring as hell, so what will happen is a migration from the Logi suit to the Scout suit for deployment. The Scout has two slots now and enough fitting to make good use of them. It's also faster and stronger and possesses a lower profile and higher precision. The lack of equipment bonus doesn't matter because the Logi suit effectively loses it after you put it away. The Scout makes an ideal logistics platform. Have fun trying to fit those equipments and fit the scout suit. There is a hugh CPU/PG difference between Logis and Scouts and rightfully so.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 120	Posted - 2014.03.31 21:15:00 - [77] - Quote RKKR wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: RKKR wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: I like how the tone seems to be that you cannot be an all around support logi. It's min maxing efficiencies and being pissed that CCP said, "We didn't intend for one logi to be able to do everything a logi can do." You know, you can use a rep tool on a different logi, hell you can rep on a scout. If you want to play TF2 and sit on a heavy and rep spam then run a minnie logi. If you want to be generally useful and actually help more than just one guy on your team making a 1.5 force multiplier then learn to spread the love and be an actual support logi. All I see in this thread is players who were **** at fps games not wanting to have their easy mode turn into something that requires effort and skill. Logis when used properly, IE not 90% of you jokers, are massive advantages even in their current form. Or did you think clone count, spawn positioning, ammo reps, armor reps, scanners showing enemy positions none of this really helps unless you get that little bit extra for every equip right? There are so many things wrong right now in this game, logis aren't one of them, you guys have just been spoiled for far too long. I expect to hear the same QQ on hardeners from tank spammers as well, so we better clear out some more room and put this thread to bed. All i See in this post is a player who puts all logis in the "ooh-you-can't-play-fps"-camp. Remember nano hives in Chromosome? Did anyone complain? Remember nano hives in Uprising <1.8? I'm sure you know how quick a hive can go empty since you can tell the difference between a good and bad logi . We're forced to use proto-level equipment while everyone else can still use their standard weapons to kill people as effectively. Well all I really can say since it's a difference of opinion is: >We're forced to use proto-level equipment In PCs, sure that's what errybody does. In pubbies, no you don't, you never need proto anything in a pubby. You don't have to use any proto gear unless you're bad at the game and need it. I'll see your I need proto gear to not suck and I'll raise you a well I guess you suck then. Edit: Because I know it might be coming, I didn't say you can't use proto gear in pubbys but seriously you don't "need" it. If you do, you are bad. Yes I would suck, I wouldn't be able to support my squad with that advanced nanohive for more than 2 min before I need to search a nearby supply depot to restock which means I'm out of the battle-zone. Because nano hives being depleted in an eye blink is no difference in opinion, it's a fact. You have no idea what you are talking about. Well like I said it's a matter of opinion. By all means I won't argue that you don't need it, I'll just have to assume if your squad is draining adv hives so fast they must either be wrecking the enemy clone count or they can't aim. Either of which sounds like it is working as intended.
RKKR The Southern Legion League of Infamy 867	Posted - 2014.03.31 21:17:00 - [78] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Skihids wrote: What it means is that anyone doing much at all with deployable equipment is going to be siting on his hands most of the match. Any suit with a significant investment in hives and uplinks is going to be expensive and somewhat squishy, making it a very poor choice for the front line. Instead of swapping out for a more active suit you would be better off cooling your heels back at base. That is boring as hell, so what will happen is a migration from the Logi suit to the Scout suit for deployment. The Scout has two slots now and enough fitting to make good use of them. It's also faster and stronger and possesses a lower profile and higher precision. The lack of equipment bonus doesn't matter because the Logi suit effectively loses it after you put it away. The Scout makes an ideal logistics platform. Have fun trying to fit those equipments and fit the scout suit. There is a hugh CPU/PG difference between Logis and Scouts and rightfully so. I'm pretty sure I could use a Standard gun to have more free CPU/PG and use non-proto-equipment which you claimed were fine enough in your previous point. Then there are also CPU and PG modules. As I said...you have no clue what you are talking about.
RKKR The Southern Legion League of Infamy 868	Posted - 2014.03.31 21:19:00 - [79] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: RKKR wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: RKKR wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: I like how the tone seems to be that you cannot be an all around support logi. It's min maxing efficiencies and being pissed that CCP said, "We didn't intend for one logi to be able to do everything a logi can do." You know, you can use a rep tool on a different logi, hell you can rep on a scout. If you want to play TF2 and sit on a heavy and rep spam then run a minnie logi. If you want to be generally useful and actually help more than just one guy on your team making a 1.5 force multiplier then learn to spread the love and be an actual support logi. All I see in this thread is players who were ** at fps games not wanting to have their easy mode turn into something that requires effort and skill. Logis when used properly, IE not 90% of you jokers, are massive advantages even in their current form. Or did you think clone count, spawn positioning, ammo reps, armor reps, scanners showing enemy positions none of this really helps unless you get that little bit extra for every equip right? There are so many things wrong right now in this game, logis aren't one of them, you guys have just been spoiled for far too long. I expect to hear the same QQ on hardeners from tank spammers as well, so we better clear out some more room and put this thread to bed. All i See in this post is a player who puts all logis in the "ooh-you-can't-play-fps"-camp. Remember nano hives in Chromosome? Did anyone complain? Remember nano hives in Uprising <1.8? I'm sure you know how quick a hive can go empty since you can tell the difference between a good and bad logi . We're forced to use proto-level equipment while everyone else can still use their standard weapons to kill people as effectively. Well all I really can say since it's a difference of opinion is: >We're forced to use proto-level equipment In PCs, sure that's what errybody does. In pubbies, no you don't, you never need proto anything in a pubby. You don't have to use any proto gear unless you're bad at the game and need it. I'll see your I need proto gear to not suck and I'll raise you a well I guess you suck then. Edit: Because I know it might be coming, I didn't say you can't use proto gear in pubbys but seriously you don't "need" it. If you do, you are bad. Yes I would suck, I wouldn't be able to support my squad with that advanced nanohive for more than 2 min before I need to search a nearby supply depot to restock which means I'm out of the battle-zone. Because nano hives being depleted in an eye blink is no difference in opinion, it's a fact. You have no idea what you are talking about. Well like I said it's a matter of opinion. By all means I won't argue that you don't need it, I'll just have to assume if your squad is draining adv hives so fast they must either be wrecking the enemy clone count or they can't aim. Either of which sounds like it is working as intended. So you basically agree that adv hives are ** because you'll spend 90% of your time not with your squad. and then I haven't talked about the movement of the battle and number of available hives. Please keep digging your own hole. Also, you're not worthy to have an opinion if you keep ASSUMING things, test it out yourself or shut up.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 7948	Posted - 2014.03.31 21:26:00 - [80] - Quote RKKR wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: The Black Jackal wrote: I'm hoping that it's intentional... Why you ask? It stops people from dropping favoured equipment, switching suits, and coming back to drop more favoured equipment. You want those really good Uplinks? Well you have to stay Amarr Logistics. I hope it is intentional. Equipment spam is a plague. Everyone complains if we start shooting people. Everyone complains about dropping equipment. Everyone complains that we're constantly reaping one guy. What else is there to do for a support role? + everyone misses the point. Equipment will be spammed. Bonuses or no bonuses. Staying in the same suit while all hives or uplinks are depleted = boring gameplay for support roles. There's such a thing as too much of everything. Though I never complained about repairs. My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone. If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.

RKKR The Southern Legion League of Infamy 868	Posted - 2014.03.31 21:29:00 - [81] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: RKKR wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: The Black Jackal wrote: I'm hoping that it's intentional... Why you ask? It stops people from dropping favoured equipment, switching suits, and coming back to drop more favoured equipment. You want those really good Uplinks? Well you have to stay Amarr Logistics. I hope it is intentional. Equipment spam is a plague. Everyone complains if we start shooting people. Everyone complains about dropping equipment. Everyone complains that we're constantly reaping one guy. What else is there to do for a support role? + everyone misses the point. Equipment will be spammed. Bonuses or no bonuses. Staying in the same suit while all hives or uplinks are depleted = boring gameplay for support roles. There's such a thing as too much of everything. Though I never complained about repairs. So how do we change the game to make it less boring for a support player and less spammy equipment instead of complaining? I never see anyone answer this question.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 121	Posted - 2014.03.31 21:30:00 - [82] - Quote RKKR wrote: So you basically agree that adv hives are **** because you'll spend 90% of your time not with your squad. and then I haven't talked about the movement of the battle and number of available hives. Please keep digging your own hole. What? Also, I didn't say the equipment were the problem, my point was a proto scout is going to have lower tier gear and so on and so forth. A adv scout is going to have std tier in equipment or gear, a std scout is going to fall over when someone coughs at it if it's support fitted. Not saying scouts can't do it, I'm just saying don't expect to fit as much onto them as the equivalent Logi which = less support more speed which isn't necessarily "combat efficiency". You sacrifice a potential support bonus for mobility going that route, but if that's what you want go for it. Just don't expect scouts to be better support on the "support side." You can have whatever fictitious argument you want to straw man up, It doesn't change anything. Also pick a side of your argument, if you think scouts are fine why argue that you can't be a logi without all the bonuses? Edit: Also I can drain a proto nanohive in 30 seconds so the whole they drain too fast argument can still boil down to the efficiency of your squad. Nanohives were never meant to be supply depots.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 121	Posted - 2014.03.31 21:34:00 - [83] - Quote RKKR wrote: Cat Merc wrote: RKKR wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: The Black Jackal wrote: I'm hoping that it's intentional... Why you ask? It stops people from dropping favoured equipment, switching suits, and coming back to drop more favoured equipment. You want those really good Uplinks? Well you have to stay Amarr Logistics. I hope it is intentional. Equipment spam is a plague. Everyone complains if we start shooting people. Everyone complains about dropping equipment. Everyone complains that we're constantly reaping one guy. What else is there to do for a support role? + everyone misses the point. Equipment will be spammed. Bonuses or no bonuses. Staying in the same suit while all hives or uplinks are depleted = boring gameplay for support roles. There's such a thing as too much of everything. Though I never complained about repairs. So how do we change the game to make it less boring for a support player and less spammy equipment instead of complaining? I never see anyone answer this question. I know how they can end the boringness, they can join all the other classes in shooting things. I hear it's all the rave in a first person shooter.
M1tch Rapp Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 78	Posted - 2014.03.31 21:36:00 - [84] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: RKKR wrote: So you basically agree that adv hives are **** because you'll spend 90% of your time not with your squad. and then I haven't talked about the movement of the battle and number of available hives. Please keep digging your own hole. What? Also, I didn't say the equipment were the problem, my point was a proto scout is going to have lower tier gear and so on and so forth. A adv scout is going to have std tier in equipment or gear, a std scout is going to fall over when someone coughs at it if it's support fitted. Not saying scouts can't do it, I'm just saying don't expect to fit as much onto them as the equivalent Logi which = less support more speed which isn't necessarily "combat efficiency". You sacrifice a potential support bonus for mobility going that route, but if that's what you want go for it. Just don't expect scouts to be better support on the "support side." You can have whatever fictitious argument you want to straw man up, It doesn't change anything. Also pick a side of your argument, if you think scouts are fine why argue that you can't be a logi without all the bonuses? You can fit a proto cloak and a proto piece of equipment and run from one end of the map to the other to deliver the equipment with little to no risk while cloaked. Not many people I know use the same suit from start to finish of any map so this truly makes two of the logi suits worthless for the most part (Amarr and Caldari). I agree with RKKR, you keep digging yourself into a hole.
RKKR The Southern Legion League of Infamy 868	Posted - 2014.03.31 21:37:00 - [85] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: RKKR wrote: So you basically agree that adv hives are **** because you'll spend 90% of your time not with your squad. and then I haven't talked about the movement of the battle and number of available hives. Please keep digging your own hole. What? Also, I didn't say the equipment were the problem, my point was a proto scout is going to have lower tier gear and so on and so forth. A adv scout is going to have std tier in equipment or gear, a std scout is going to fall over when someone coughs at it if it's support fitted. Not saying scouts can't do it, I'm just saying don't expect to fit as much onto them as the equivalent Logi which = less support more speed which isn't necessarily "combat efficiency". You sacrifice a potential support bonus for mobility going that route, but if that's what you want go for it. Just don't expect scouts to be better support on the "support side." You can have whatever fictitious argument you want to straw man up, It doesn't change anything. Also pick a side of your argument, if you think scouts are fine why argue that you can't be a logi without all the bonuses? You're the one mixing up my posts...and it seems you need to pick a side yourself (I was just pointing out your errors + it seems all bonuses are gone when you switch suits for equipment so why are you arguing that?) or stop using passive phrases that denies your previous statements And yes if my hives are going to suck and I'm spending 90% of my time running to restock my hives....a scouts mobility is more helpful...the better scans,... would be too because I don't have to tell you that a true logi tries to avoid fights when he is running on his own with crap stamina . I'm tired of you, see you tomorrow to check the depth of your hole.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 121	Posted - 2014.03.31 21:40:00 - [86] - Quote M1tch Rapp wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: RKKR wrote: So you basically agree that adv hives are **** because you'll spend 90% of your time not with your squad. and then I haven't talked about the movement of the battle and number of available hives. Please keep digging your own hole. What? Also, I didn't say the equipment were the problem, my point was a proto scout is going to have lower tier gear and so on and so forth. A adv scout is going to have std tier in equipment or gear, a std scout is going to fall over when someone coughs at it if it's support fitted. Not saying scouts can't do it, I'm just saying don't expect to fit as much onto them as the equivalent Logi which = less support more speed which isn't necessarily "combat efficiency". You sacrifice a potential support bonus for mobility going that route, but if that's what you want go for it. Just don't expect scouts to be better support on the "support side." You can have whatever fictitious argument you want to straw man up, It doesn't change anything. Also pick a side of your argument, if you think scouts are fine why argue that you can't be a logi without all the bonuses? You can fit a proto cloak and a proto piece of equipment and run from one end of the map to the other to deliver the equipment with little to no risk while cloaked. Not many people I know use the same suit from start to finish of any map so this truly makes two of the logi suits worthless for the most part (Amarr and Caldari). I agree with RKKR, you keep digging yourself into a hole. Yeah and Assault suits can also carry one piece of support equipment. This all or nothing arugment of I either get everything or nothing works is getting tiring. In no way is having one equipment = to 2 or 3/4 when talking proto logis. You guys are both skewing what you can do just to throw a pity parade about how not being able to have all the logi suits bonuses = no one can logi.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 121	Posted - 2014.03.31 21:46:00 - [87] - Quote RKKR wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: RKKR wrote: So you basically agree that adv hives are **** because you'll spend 90% of your time not with your squad. and then I haven't talked about the movement of the battle and number of available hives. Please keep digging your own hole. What? Also, I didn't say the equipment were the problem, my point was a proto scout is going to have lower tier gear and so on and so forth. A adv scout is going to have std tier in equipment or gear, a std scout is going to fall over when someone coughs at it if it's support fitted. Not saying scouts can't do it, I'm just saying don't expect to fit as much onto them as the equivalent Logi which = less support more speed which isn't necessarily "combat efficiency". You sacrifice a potential support bonus for mobility going that route, but if that's what you want go for it. Just don't expect scouts to be better support on the "support side." You can have whatever fictitious argument you want to straw man up, It doesn't change anything. Also pick a side of your argument, if you think scouts are fine why argue that you can't be a logi without all the bonuses? You're the one mixing up my posts...and it seems you need to pick a side yourself (I was just pointing out your errors + it seems all bonuses are gone when you switch suits for equipment so why are you arguing that?) or stop using passive phrases that denies your previous statements And yes if my hives are going to suck and I'm spending 90% of my time running to restock my hives....a scouts mobility is more helpful...the better scans,... would be too because I don't have to tell you that a true logi tries to avoid fights when he is running on his own with crap stamina . I'm tired of you, see you tomorrow to check the depth of your hole. I made no errors, you created a straw man where you set up a position I did not hold and then attacked this false position. If you would rather run a scout support then do it. I don't agree that just because a scout can move faster that the bonus equipment and ehp/CPU/PG makes a logi an inferior support. They both have their uses, you quoted me claiming I said scouts can't use support when all I said was they would have trouble fitting what a logi can. That's it, construct whatever bullshit you want out of it. You're just another logi spammer QQing that you can't logi spam anymore while the real logis keep doing what they do.
ugg reset Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 541	Posted - 2014.03.31 21:47:00 - [88] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: [quote=The Black Jackal]I'm hoping that it's intentional... Why you ask? It stops people from dropping favoured equipment, switching suits, and coming back to drop more favoured equipment. You want those really good Uplinks? Well you have to stay Amarr Logistics. I hope it is intentional. Equipment spam is a plague.[/quote I disagree, Mini map clutter is the plague. Thr33 is the magic number.
GeneralButtNaked Amarr Templars 989	Posted - 2014.03.31 22:02:00 - [89] - Quote ER-Bullitt wrote: I respect your opinion. But regarding your last sentence, the problem was that CCP kind of didn't make this known very well to everyone who doesn't search the forums for one post. This change should have been plastered in bold print at the top of the 1.8 change list. And it wasn't. So folks went ahead and spent millions of SP without the knowledge to make an educated decision. That is failure, and logi's who simply want to support other players (like you) shouldn't have to deal with THAT. Hence the point of this thread, I think. They are two separate points though. The equipment nerf, and the logi bonuses and how they apply. On the bonuses, and the manner in which they do apply, CCP absolutely should have been more clear, especailly about what would or would not allow the bonus to function. This is a large part of why I specced Gallente logi, because I was not sure at all how the bonuses would play out, and I suspected that they would not function properly for some weeks. On the equipment nerf though, it is mostly whining and pining for what was. I can say that running nanohives, a needle and a rep tool on a Gallente logi is not a bad setup for squad support. I could even throw some links if I wanted to. I still revive guys at 80%, which is darn good enough for even my crappy rep tool(never invested SP, was an Amarr logi before) to top guys off between combat. Sure you have to carry proto hives if you are around muppets, but if you are with a squad who doesn't act a fool with their grenades, advanced hives can go a long way. Sure the links won't get that 4 second spawn time, but if you can't protect a link for 8 seconds, you probably shouldn't put it there anyway. On top of all that adequate logi work I can put in, I also get super scans. Oh, and a nice slot layout that lets me rock 700hp at advanced and 900hp at proto with no problems. With anything from 2-15 reps. Seriously, if you can't logi in the current system, you weren't a good logi in the last build either. You were just an equipment spamming, scan dancing crate hider with a rep tool. The last to die, but always with a full clip. Real AV doesn't stop until all the tanks are dead.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 121	Posted - 2014.03.31 22:10:00 - [90] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: ER-Bullitt wrote: I respect your opinion. But regarding your last sentence, the problem was that CCP kind of didn't make this known very well to everyone who doesn't search the forums for one post. This change should have been plastered in bold print at the top of the 1.8 change list. And it wasn't. So folks went ahead and spent millions of SP without the knowledge to make an educated decision. That is failure, and logi's who simply want to support other players (like you) shouldn't have to deal with THAT. Hence the point of this thread, I think. They are two separate points though. The equipment nerf, and the logi bonuses and how they apply. On the bonuses, and the manner in which they do apply, CCP absolutely should have been more clear, especailly about what would or would not allow the bonus to function. This is a large part of why I specced Gallente logi, because I was not sure at all how the bonuses would play out, and I suspected that they would not function properly for some weeks. On the equipment nerf though, it is mostly whining and pining for what was. I can say that running nanohives, a needle and a rep tool on a Gallente logi is not a bad setup for squad support. I could even throw some links if I wanted to. I still revive guys at 80%, which is darn good enough for even my crappy rep tool(never invested SP, was an Amarr logi before) to top guys off between combat. Sure you have to carry proto hives if you are around muppets, but if you are with a squad who doesn't act a fool with their grenades, advanced hives can go a long way. Sure the links won't get that 4 second spawn time, but if you can't protect a link for 8 seconds, you probably shouldn't put it there anyway. On top of all that adequate logi work I can put in, I also get super scans. Oh, and a nice slot layout that lets me rock 700hp at advanced and 900hp at proto with no problems. With anything from 2-15 reps. Seriously, if you can't logi in the current system, you weren't a good logi in the last build either. You were just an equipment spamming, scan dancing crate hider with a rep tool. The last to die, but always with a full clip. I'm just confused though, suit bonuses pre 1.8 didn't stack on unrelated suits, and post 1.8 other suits do not have stacking bonuses (For example speccing into all commandos isn't going to give you a % bonus to all commando suits for all damage types) why would people think logi suit bonuses wouldn't behave like all the other suits? Did you guys think the caldari rapid reload would work on gallente assaults?

Doc Browner Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 227	Posted - 2014.03.31 22:18:00 - [91] - Quote Maybe because of this: Charge the point drop a couple up-links and take the objective battle across the road and take the supply unit drop a couple up-links. now I'm standing in front of a supply unit with no equipment and hear "I need AMMO" So what do i do? give up the 3 second up-links to give him ammo? Wear the Amarr and waste isk on bad nanohives? As any good Logi would do I would switch to a min suit and give him the good stuff and waste isk on bad up-links. What the F*ck did I spend 2.8 mil SP for? I spill my Blood for Freedom and righteousness
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2550	Posted - 2014.03.31 22:20:00 - [92] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: I'm just confused though, suit bonuses pre 1.8 didn't stack on unrelated suits, and post 1.8 other suits do not have stacking bonuses (For example speccing into all commandos isn't going to give you a % bonus to all commando suits for all damage types) why would people think logi suit bonuses wouldn't behave like all the other suits? Did you guys think the caldari rapid reload would work on gallente assaults? You are confused but about something else. WTF are you talking about? Deployable equipment and weapons (or dropsuit modules) are not the same thing. Prior to a week ago, they had static properties which did not change after deployment. Why would it not be logical (in the absence of CCP telling us) that this would stay the same? "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 121	Posted - 2014.03.31 22:23:00 - [93] - Quote Doc Browner wrote: Maybe because of this: Charge the point drop a couple up-links and take the objective battle across the road and take the supply unit drop a couple up-links. now I'm standing in front of a supply unit with no equipment and hear "I need AMMO" So what do i do? give up the 3 second up-links to give him ammo? Wear the Amarr and waste isk on bad nanohives? As any good Logi would do I would switch to a min suit and give him the good stuff and waste isk on bad up-links. What the Fck did I spend 2.8 mil SP for? Maybe because of this: I specced into assault Caldari and assault Gallente. I run my Caldari with rail tech for that extra reload speed and then I get stuck in a close quarters situation near a supply depot/the enemy is fighting inside a building. What now? I change to the gallente and waste the reload bonus I earned on the Caldari Assault? What the *** did I spend 2.8mil SP for? I don't know... why would you run two assault suits to proto instead of running a different suit/more upgrades? Yes, this is what you are arguing.
Gyyast MuffinMen 16	Posted - 2014.03.31 22:23:00 - [94] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Oh, you didn't want to spend a proto suit to just get faster spawns and lots of WP while you play johnny rep tool? Tough. No free lunches. The bonus applies to suits of all levels, so he could drop two different kinds of proto uplinks from a basic suit if he wanted to and get the same effect. In addition to that, I don't think dying allows you to keep the equipment bonus. If you change suits, the bonus goes away. Wanting your equipment to work even if you've changed suits doesn't necessarily imply you are an equipment spammer. Dropping two uplinks and then changing to follow your heavy around is a valid tactic that actually contributes to the team as a whole. I realize spamming a supply depot with uplinks and then spamming it with nanohives and then repping a heavy near it is a tactic that has very little benefit to the team as a whole. It just causes lag and inflates the WP score without adding much to actually winning the match, but not everyone who wants to drop an uplink and swap to a scout or a rep logi is trying to exploit the server capacity. Whether one likes SirManBoy and his corp or not is irrelevant, in this case he's got a point and I think it's worth actually debating. Now I'm off to eat my lunch, which happens to have been provided to me by my work at no cost.
Icarus DelSol BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives 41	Posted - 2014.03.31 22:28:00 - [95] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: I know how they can end the boringness, they can join all the other classes in shooting things. I hear it's all the rave in a first person shooter. Some of us logis have, er, aiming problems... There's a reason snipers snipe and logi's logi. I got news for you, it ain't because we're good at assaulting things
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 121	Posted - 2014.03.31 22:30:00 - [96] - Quote Gyyast wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: Oh, you didn't want to spend a proto suit to just get faster spawns and lots of WP while you play johnny rep tool? Tough. No free lunches. The bonus applies to suits of all levels, so he could drop two different kinds of proto uplinks from a basic suit if he wanted to and get the same effect. In addition to that, I don't think dying allows you to keep the equipment bonus. If you change suits, the bonus goes away. Wanting your equipment to work even if you've changed suits doesn't necessarily imply you are an equipment spammer. Dropping two uplinks and then changing to follow your heavy around is a valid tactic that actually contributes to the team as a whole. I realize spamming a supply depot with uplinks and then spamming it with nanohives and then repping a heavy near it is a tactic that has very little benefit to the team as a whole. It just causes lag and inflates the WP score without adding much to actually winning the match, but not everyone who wants to drop an uplink and swap to a scout or a rep logi is trying to exploit the server capacity. Whether one likes SirManBoy and his corp or not is irrelevant, in this case he's got a point and I think it's worth actually debating. Now I'm off to eat my lunch, which happens to have been provided to me by my work at no cost. The equipment still works. Just you don't get to keep the Rapid Reload bonus from Caldari Assault when you switch to a Gallente Assault. Yes I know it's Logis, but why should Logis not follow the rules that all other suits follow?
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14051	Posted - 2014.03.31 22:31:00 - [97] - Quote Buwhahahaa.... yeah its a nerf to me too but its something I can live with as I don't abuse it. Also protesting by just spamming justifies the equipment nerf that did come in 1.8... CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 121	Posted - 2014.03.31 22:32:00 - [98] - Quote Icarus DelSol wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: I know how they can end the boringness, they can join all the other classes in shooting things. I hear it's all the rave in a first person shooter. Some of us logis have, er, aiming problems... There's a reason snipers snipe and logi's logi. I got news for you, it ain't because we're good at assaulting things Well if that is the case, I have many genres of games to show you that are not first person shooters... because this game is a first person shooter, and people who are good at aiming are always going to be OP.
Doc Browner Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 228	Posted - 2014.03.31 22:40:00 - [99] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Doc Browner wrote: Maybe because of this: Charge the point drop a couple up-links and take the objective battle across the road and take the supply unit drop a couple up-links. now I'm standing in front of a supply unit with no equipment and hear "I need AMMO" So what do i do? give up the 3 second up-links to give him ammo? Wear the Amarr and waste isk on bad nanohives? As any good Logi would do I would switch to a min suit and give him the good stuff and waste isk on bad up-links. What the Fck did I spend 2.8 mil SP for? Maybe because of this: I specced into assault Caldari and assault Gallente. I run my Caldari with rail tech for that extra reload speed and then I get stuck in a close quarters situation near a supply depot/the enemy is fighting inside a building. What now? I change to the gallente and waste the reload bonus I earned on the Caldari Assault? What the *** did I spend 2.8mil SP for? I don't know... why would you run two assault suits to proto instead of running a different suit/more upgrades? Yes, this is what you are arguing. pathetic retort i have the same problem with my weapons how much isk did you put into your fast reload speed? where is the fast reload speed module in the market? You see we pay for the uplinks and pay for the nanohives and pay for the rep tools... I spill my Blood for Freedom and righteousness
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 122	Posted - 2014.03.31 22:42:00 - [100] - Quote Doc Browner wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Doc Browner wrote: Maybe because of this: Charge the point drop a couple up-links and take the objective battle across the road and take the supply unit drop a couple up-links. now I'm standing in front of a supply unit with no equipment and hear "I need AMMO" So what do i do? give up the 3 second up-links to give him ammo? Wear the Amarr and waste isk on bad nanohives? As any good Logi would do I would switch to a min suit and give him the good stuff and waste isk on bad up-links. What the Fck did I spend 2.8 mil SP for? Maybe because of this: I specced into assault Caldari and assault Gallente. I run my Caldari with rail tech for that extra reload speed and then I get stuck in a close quarters situation near a supply depot/the enemy is fighting inside a building. What now? I change to the gallente and waste the reload bonus I earned on the Caldari Assault? What the *** did I spend 2.8mil SP for? I don't know... why would you run two assault suits to proto instead of running a different suit/more upgrades? Yes, this is what you are arguing. pathetic retort i have the same problem with my weapons how much isk did you put into your fast reload speed? where is the fast reload speed module in the market? You see we pay for the uplinks and pay for the nanohives and pay for the rep tools... Oh, I know you probably aren't used to using them but if you look under light weaponry it's called the Rail Rifle or Sniper Rifle. Yes dear logi, their are things called guns in this game, and you can skill into them, and you can even shoot people with them! Yes even you! Turns out you can do more than just spam equipments, golly gee willickers.

RockNrolla Ayatollah S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance 18	Posted - 2014.03.31 22:42:00 - [101] - Quote I can understand this a little due to the fact I run logi suits and have dumped all my SP in it so I can be a better logi just to find out if I change my suit to better help my team I get penalized but it is what it is. Unfortunately we either A. don't have enough equipment slots or B not enough CPU/PG. I am still trying to find balance here LOL!! I need a scanner, no wait I need to drop more uplinks....... Wait I need a rep tool........ crap, now I need a nanite injector!!!! Hey where's the nanohives? I am out of ammo .......... I NEED A DRINK!!! but I love my logi suits and I love being the happy helperton IMO the spam doesn't just come from logi's. It's from everybody who's anybody who has an equipment slot on their suit and feels the need to carry an uplink or nanohive. Maybe we need to get more suit specific and if your NOT in a logi suit you CANNOT carry uplinks ........ I don't know I am still learning. I appreciate those of you who appreciate the logi and the nanite injector because you would have lost a suit, or the rep tool to help you stand a chance against the sea of boundless heavies or the nanohive so you don't have to run half way across the map just to refill on ammo and risk running into a swarm of red and I appreciate the other classes for covering my arse so I can do my job too :-)!! DON'T WAKE THE SNAKE!!! SSSSSSSSSSSSS AKA Katana Musick AKA KrispyKreme McDonalds
Takron Nistrom Tinfoil Hatz 282	Posted - 2014.03.31 22:43:00 - [102] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: I'm noticing that the uplinks I drop as an Amarr aren't retaining their bonus as I change suits throughout a match. As a multiracially spec'd logi who tries to adapt to ever-changing conditions on the field, I find this totally unacceptable and tactically nonsensical. Bottom line, is this an error/bug, or is this intentional? My position is this...if you drop a piece of bonus-enhanced equipment then it should retain its effectiveness for as long as it is functional. In other words, suit changes shouldn't cause previously deployed bonus-enhanced equipment to lose its efficacy. What's going on here, CCP? So you dont spam. If you want a bonus, use the suit and stop being a spamscrub GÇ£Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)GÇ¥ GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 122	Posted - 2014.03.31 22:46:00 - [103] - Quote RockNrolla Ayatollah wrote: I can understand this a little due to the fact I run logi suits and have dumped all my SP in it so I can be a better logi just to find out if I change my suit to better help my team I get penalized but it is what it is. Unfortunately we either A. don't have enough equipment slots or B not enough CPU/PG. I am still trying to find balance here LOL!! I need a scanner, no wait I need to drop more uplinks....... Wait I need a rep tool........ crap, now I need a nanite injector!!!! Hey where's the nanohives? I am out of ammo .......... I NEED A DRINK!!! but I love my logi suits and I love being the happy helperton IMO the spam doesn't just come from logi's. It's from everybody who's anybody who has an equipment slot on their suit and feels the need to carry an uplink or nanohive. Maybe we need to get more suit specific and if your NOT in a logi suit you CANNOT carry uplinks ........ I don't know I am still learning. I appreciate those of you who appreciate the logi and the nanite injector because you would have lost a suit, or the rep tool to help you stand a chance against the sea of boundless heavies or the nanohive so you don't have to run half way across the map just to refill on ammo and risk running into a swarm of red and I appreciate the other classes for covering my arse so I can do my job too :-)!! Well one logi was never supposed to be able to do everything. That's why logis are upset now, because CCP said, "Ooops, you weren't supposed to be able to cover all logistic support!" Which isn't entirely true, you can still drop hives, drop uplinks, swap suits and run around with a rep tool and nanite and/or scanner. You just won't get all bonuses, which comes back to the whole, commandos, scouts. assault, and sentinels do not get all racial bonuses on each suit why should logis?
RockNrolla Ayatollah S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance 18	Posted - 2014.03.31 23:17:00 - [104] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Well one logi was never supposed to be able to do everything. That's why logis are upset now, because CCP said, "Ooops, you weren't supposed to be able to cover all logistic support!" Which isn't entirely true, you can still drop hives, drop uplinks, swap suits and run around with a rep tool and nanite and/or scanner. You just won't get all bonuses, which comes back to the whole, commandos, scouts. assault, and sentinels do not get all racial bonuses on each suit why should logis? That's pretty much what I do, I switch suits and without fail its the wrong one lol!! Just trying to find that good all purpose Logi so I don't have to switch is what I'm working on now :-/ I like that my team can reclone in 3-5 sec. Vs. 12-15. DON'T WAKE THE SNAKE!!! SSSSSSSSSSSSS AKA Katana Musick AKA KrispyKreme McDonalds
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 386	Posted - 2014.03.31 23:36:00 - [105] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Gyyast wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: Oh, you didn't want to spend a proto suit to just get faster spawns and lots of WP while you play johnny rep tool? Tough. No free lunches. The bonus applies to suits of all levels, so he could drop two different kinds of proto uplinks from a basic suit if he wanted to and get the same effect. In addition to that, I don't think dying allows you to keep the equipment bonus. If you change suits, the bonus goes away. Wanting your equipment to work even if you've changed suits doesn't necessarily imply you are an equipment spammer. Dropping two uplinks and then changing to follow your heavy around is a valid tactic that actually contributes to the team as a whole. I realize spamming a supply depot with uplinks and then spamming it with nanohives and then repping a heavy near it is a tactic that has very little benefit to the team as a whole. It just causes lag and inflates the WP score without adding much to actually winning the match, but not everyone who wants to drop an uplink and swap to a scout or a rep logi is trying to exploit the server capacity. Whether one likes SirManBoy and his corp or not is irrelevant, in this case he's got a point and I think it's worth actually debating. Now I'm off to eat my lunch, which happens to have been provided to me by my work at no cost. The equipment still works. Just you don't get to keep the Rapid Reload bonus from Caldari Assault when you switch to a Gallente Assault. Yes I know it's Logis, but why should Logis not follow the rules that all other suits follow? We are only referring to Amarri and Caldari logis. The difference is our bonuses apply to the passive equipment we drop. The other two logis have active bonuses, just like every other suit, but uplinks and hives have never been tied to the suit or the life of the person dropping them. Your link continues even after you die. So why should the bonus for the equipment change. It should depend on what suit and level dropped them, not what suit that person is currently wearing. Because, that's why.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2550	Posted - 2014.04.01 00:16:00 - [106] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: RockNrolla Ayatollah wrote: I can understand this a little due to the fact I run logi suits and have dumped all my SP in it so I can be a better logi just to find out if I change my suit to better help my team I get penalized but it is what it is. Unfortunately we either A. don't have enough equipment slots or B not enough CPU/PG. I am still trying to find balance here LOL!! I need a scanner, no wait I need to drop more uplinks....... Wait I need a rep tool........ crap, now I need a nanite injector!!!! Hey where's the nanohives? I am out of ammo .......... I NEED A DRINK!!! but I love my logi suits and I love being the happy helperton IMO the spam doesn't just come from logi's. It's from everybody who's anybody who has an equipment slot on their suit and feels the need to carry an uplink or nanohive. Maybe we need to get more suit specific and if your NOT in a logi suit you CANNOT carry uplinks ........ I don't know I am still learning. I appreciate those of you who appreciate the logi and the nanite injector because you would have lost a suit, or the rep tool to help you stand a chance against the sea of boundless heavies or the nanohive so you don't have to run half way across the map just to refill on ammo and risk running into a swarm of red and I appreciate the other classes for covering my arse so I can do my job too :-)!! Well one logi was never supposed to be able to do everything. That's why logis are upset now, because CCP said, "Ooops, you weren't supposed to be able to cover all logistic support!" Which isn't entirely true, you can still drop hives, drop uplinks, swap suits and run around with a rep tool and nanite and/or scanner. You just won't get all bonuses, which comes back to the whole, commandos, scouts. assault, and sentinels do not get all racial bonuses on each suit why should logis? And that's still a nonsensical argument. You make my head hurt. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2550	Posted - 2014.04.01 00:20:00 - [107] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Buwhahahaa.... yeah its a nerf to me too but its something I can live with as I don't abuse it. Also protesting by just spamming justifies the equipment nerf that did come in 1.8... Hey, a somewhat-official voice! Can you (or anyone, for fcks sake) provide a link or get a dev comment on exactly how the equipment bonuses work? My main question is this: if I die and respawn in an Amarr logi suit, do my uplinks keep the bonus? (I would also like to know the same about supply depots, but less important.) "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics"* -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1368	Posted - 2014.04.01 02:31:00 - [108] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Buwhahahaa.... yeah its a nerf to me too but its something I can live with as I don't abuse it. Also protesting by just spamming justifies the equipment nerf that did come in 1.8... Hey, a somewhat-official voice! Can you (or anyone, for f*cks sake) provide a link or get a dev comment on exactly how the equipment bonuses work? My main question is this: if I die and respawn in an Amarr logi suit, do my uplinks keep the bonus? (I would also like to know the same about supply depots, but less important.) All of my evidence shows that by dying after placing uplinks with an Amarr Logi suit my uplinks retain their bonuses even if I respawn in a different fit. My issue here is that there is very little actual difference between dying and switching at the supply depot in this case. One would think that CCP would support players who survive and grant the bonus to Logis that switch suits so that they can provide a different type of support to their group. There is no reason why death should allow me to keep my uplink speed bonus while switching at a depot will not. Fun > Realism
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 389	Posted - 2014.04.01 03:54:00 - [109] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: RockNrolla Ayatollah wrote: I can understand this a little due to the fact I run logi suits and have dumped all my SP in it so I can be a better logi just to find out if I change my suit to better help my team I get penalized but it is what it is. Unfortunately we either A. don't have enough equipment slots or B not enough CPU/PG. I am still trying to find balance here LOL!! I need a scanner, no wait I need to drop more uplinks....... Wait I need a rep tool........ crap, now I need a nanite injector!!!! Hey where's the nanohives? I am out of ammo .......... I NEED A DRINK!!! but I love my logi suits and I love being the happy helperton IMO the spam doesn't just come from logi's. It's from everybody who's anybody who has an equipment slot on their suit and feels the need to carry an uplink or nanohive. Maybe we need to get more suit specific and if your NOT in a logi suit you CANNOT carry uplinks ........ I don't know I am still learning. I appreciate those of you who appreciate the logi and the nanite injector because you would have lost a suit, or the rep tool to help you stand a chance against the sea of boundless heavies or the nanohive so you don't have to run half way across the map just to refill on ammo and risk running into a swarm of red and I appreciate the other classes for covering my arse so I can do my job too :-)!! Well one logi was never supposed to be able to do everything. That's why logis are upset now, because CCP said, "Ooops, you weren't supposed to be able to cover all logistic support!" Which isn't entirely true, you can still drop hives, drop uplinks, swap suits and run around with a rep tool and nanite and/or scanner. You just won't get all bonuses, which comes back to the whole, commandos, scouts. assault, and sentinels do not get all racial bonuses on each suit why should logis? I'm not sure what you aren't getting. For the Amarri and Caldari logistics our bonus is to our equipment, not our suits or our clones, this is unlike any other suit bonus. It is also a team based bonus, not an individual one. I don't get more WP because of faster spawn times, my team benefits, not me. Equipment once deployed has never been tied to a players suit or life before, there is no reason for it to be now. If they wanted to confine logis to specializing in one role they should have picked bonuses based on active equipment use, not picked two based on passive equipment use which requires different rules than any other suits. Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 389	Posted - 2014.04.01 03:57:00 - [110] - Quote I have to admit this seems all to be speculation, at least on my part, so I am talking theoretically until I have confirmed how the bonuses actually work. Because, that's why.

Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 983	Posted - 2014.04.01 04:47:00 - [111] - Quote Smb, you got screwed. To those of you calling him a spammer or scrub, you are simply ignorant. I have yet to see a more dedicated team player in this game, and had you played with him you would know the truth.
Minmatar Mercenary 9292 Science For Death 467	Posted - 2014.04.01 04:53:00 - [112] - Quote To me this just makes the Amarr logi the only logi even worth putting points into, if you wanted to be a dedicated logi the uplink bonus is BY FAR the best bonus out of any of them, nanohives are still decent without the bonus, the rep bonus is kinda meh and a scout with good passive scan can be just as effective as a scanner can. So just spam your awesome uplinks then, spam your nanohives then grab your suit with a rep tool, scanner and whatever else and go to town all in your amarr suit. To me the zerg of 3 second uplinks is so much better than the other sh!tty bonus's and if the equipment loses it's bonus upon suit swap i dont think those other suits are worth the SP to me. Da only good Amarr is a ded Amarr, an de ony fing betta than a ded one, is a dyin one who tells ya were 'is mates is!
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 5430	Posted - 2014.04.01 04:59:00 - [113] - Quote QQ *1st Official Role Playing Gallente Asshole* -Title Awarded by True Adamance
LAVALLOIS Nash QcGOLD 63	Posted - 2014.04.01 06:06:00 - [114] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: I know how they can end the boringness, they can join all the other classes in shooting things. I hear it's all the rave in a first person shooter. This is probably your first FPS, so I can understand your enthusiasm, and how proud you are of the kills you got in game using the Aim Assist. However, you have to understand, some people are capable of more than just walking forward and shooting. Ive played many different FPS games on different platforms. Lining up a dot with another dot and pressing a button...been there, done that. Now I have more fun dodging bullets rather than firing them. Logis are playing at a higher level. Our job is not only to out think our teams and prepare for all eventualities before they happen, its also to outsmart you and stay 1 step ahead. Thats the kind of thing that Aim Assist can never do. Thats why people are drawn to Dust, because there is a bigger picture. If you want to just walk, shoot, walk, shoot, walk shoot...then I recommend you pick up the annual COD title.
RKKR The Southern Legion League of Infamy 872	Posted - 2014.04.01 07:34:00 - [115] - Quote LOL, that guy is still mixing up 2 different posts of mine and calls me a straw man. Just look at post #83, it's pretty clear this guy wants the boring FPS-game and not the tactical stuff that CCP promised us. To all the people saying that ADV hives are good enough...How many people are you actually supplying with it? How many deaths do your teammates have (they don't need ammo if they die). How many kills do they make? How many times do you push a different location? How useful are you with an empty equipment slot? How useful are you when running to the supply depot to restock your hives all the time? How useful are you with crap stamina stats? Just another post with sentences and quastionmarks you guys will never answer as you are just too busy crying of equipment spam (while I see more comments of people to back up the logis to say they are not spammers) not the efficiency and boredom of the support role compared to the others roles and putting us in the scan-ballerina-camp... Please return after you know you're talking about.
Gyyast MuffinMen 17	Posted - 2014.04.01 14:59:00 - [116] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Gyyast wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: Oh, you didn't want to spend a proto suit to just get faster spawns and lots of WP while you play johnny rep tool? Tough. No free lunches. The bonus applies to suits of all levels, so he could drop two different kinds of proto uplinks from a basic suit if he wanted to and get the same effect. In addition to that, I don't think dying allows you to keep the equipment bonus. If you change suits, the bonus goes away. Wanting your equipment to work even if you've changed suits doesn't necessarily imply you are an equipment spammer. Dropping two uplinks and then changing to follow your heavy around is a valid tactic that actually contributes to the team as a whole. I realize spamming a supply depot with uplinks and then spamming it with nanohives and then repping a heavy near it is a tactic that has very little benefit to the team as a whole. It just causes lag and inflates the WP score without adding much to actually winning the match, but not everyone who wants to drop an uplink and swap to a scout or a rep logi is trying to exploit the server capacity. Whether one likes SirManBoy and his corp or not is irrelevant, in this case he's got a point and I think it's worth actually debating. Now I'm off to eat my lunch, which happens to have been provided to me by my work at no cost. The equipment still works. Just you don't get to keep the Rapid Reload bonus from Caldari Assault when you switch to a Gallente Assault. Yes I know it's Logis, but why should Logis not follow the rules that all other suits follow? I don't think that example is analogous. Bonuses should apply when you use them; in the case of the reload bonus, that's when you reload, but in the case of deployable equipment, it's when you deploy it. I'm not arguing scanning or repping should get racial bonuses when you're not wearing the appropriate suits, but if you deploy a nanohive while wearing a Caldari dropsuit I think it should keep the nanite bonus for as long as it's on the field. How would you feel about this scenario? Two logis put on proto Amarr and Caldari suits and fly a dropship to every tower and turtleback on the map, deploying uplinks and nanohives as they go. They then fly back to the ground spawn and switch to a brick tanked basic logis with sniper rifles. They have switched roles, but are still wearing the proper racial suits to receive their bonuses. Assuming CCP could tell this had happened and do something about it, should their uplinks and nanohives work at maximum efficiency? Is it really about the suits they are wearing, or the way they're playing the game? I don't play as either race, so it doesn't really matter to me, but it seems to me your equipment stats should be based on the suit you're wearing when you plop them down, not what you're wearing when it's used.
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro PAND3M0N1UM Lokun Listamenn 304	Posted - 2014.04.01 15:20:00 - [117] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: SirManBoy wrote: No, you explain why your choices are the only ones on offer. Why should I have to die? Again, you're offering false choices when there are other possibilities, many more logical than your premise that I...A) Get over it. or B) Die and keep the bonuses. Because CCP sucks? Why is it on me to explain why CCP produced a flying turd again? Right now, if you die in the suit, you keep the bonuses. So if you want to keep the low spawn time links, and then run a min logi for quality reps, that is how you do it. FFS, give someone a tip and watch them flap themselves into a tizzy trying to be mad. Stupid scrub. Liked twice! FAME Click for Vehicle Support Click for Recruitment
Skihids Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 3225	Posted - 2014.04.01 17:29:00 - [118] - Quote Faster spawn times are far more strategically important than better hives, so that means Amar over Cadari in the new world order. If the equipment is drawing CPU and power from my suit all the way across the map, just think about the possibilities of powering suits off of the MCC. Just imagine not having to worry about fitting requirements. Someone should get to work on ths right away!
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 144	Posted - 2014.04.01 17:38:00 - [119] - Quote Skihids wrote: Faster spawn times are far more strategically important than better hives, so that means Amar over Cadari in the new world order. If the equipment is drawing CPU and power from my suit all the way across the map, just think about the possibilities of powering suits off of the MCC. Just imagine not having to worry about fitting requirements. Someone should get to work on ths right away! The Amarr is the least equippy one though at the same time and is slightly faster then a fatty. So there is a drawback, just super saiyan. The Amarr is the most combat oriented of the Logis so it would make sense that they would carry the drop and forget uplinks... they are the new swarm launchers!!! OP!!!!!!!111!!!!! Imma cry they ruined my toy you can't even logi anymore since you can't get all bonuses at once my ***** hurt so imma break all mah toys!!! Technically there are differences in logi like the other suits that make them still fit a specific play style, but yes if you over simplify and power game we should all be running blaster tanks right now anyways.
M1tch Rapp Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 90	Posted - 2014.04.01 17:48:00 - [120] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Skihids wrote: Faster spawn times are far more strategically important than better hives, so that means Amar over Cadari in the new world order. If the equipment is drawing CPU and power from my suit all the way across the map, just think about the possibilities of powering suits off of the MCC. Just imagine not having to worry about fitting requirements. Someone should get to work on ths right away! The Amarr is the least equippy one though at the same time and is slightly faster then a fatty. So there is a drawback, just super saiyan. The Amarr is the most combat oriented of the Logis so it would make sense that they would carry the drop and forget uplinks... they are the new swarm launchers!!! OP!!!!!!!111!!!!! Imma cry they ruined my toy you can't even logi anymore since you can't get all bonuses at once my ***** hurt so imma break all mah toys!!! Technically there are differences in logi like the other suits that make them still fit a specific play style, but yes if you over simplify and power game we should all be running blaster tanks right now anyways. You'd think it was the most combat oriented, but it doesn't work out that way in competitive settings.

TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 145	Posted - 2014.04.01 17:57:00 - [121] - Quote M1tch Rapp wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Skihids wrote: Faster spawn times are far more strategically important than better hives, so that means Amar over Cadari in the new world order. If the equipment is drawing CPU and power from my suit all the way across the map, just think about the possibilities of powering suits off of the MCC. Just imagine not having to worry about fitting requirements. Someone should get to work on ths right away! The Amarr is the least equippy one though at the same time and is slightly faster then a fatty. So there is a drawback, just super saiyan. The Amarr is the most combat oriented of the Logis so it would make sense that they would carry the drop and forget uplinks... they are the new swarm launchers!!! OP!!!!!!!111!!!!! Imma cry they ruined my toy you can't even logi anymore since you can't get all bonuses at once my *** hurt so imma break all mah toys!!! Technically there are differences in logi like the other suits that make them still fit a specific play style, but yes if you over simplify and power game we should all be running blaster tanks right now anyways. You'd think it was the most combat oriented, but it doesn't work out that way in competitive settings. Well I meant on account of it's high buffer e/hp and side arm capabilities. It is true you can Caldari tank up but that's because CCP went full **** and broke their own formula giving Caldari logis more high and low slots then any other suit (9 total while most get 7). And the Gallente has higher buffer but it's the often overlooked issue that armor has a higher buffer because shields recharge at a much higher rate than armor. It's just a failure to reconcile that shield tanking and armor tanking operate differently (Armor higher buffer/higher downtime vs. Shields lower buffer/lower downtime). You can get a dedicated logi to hug your ass and rep you the whole time, but that gives you 1 guy and a half instead of 2 guys. The real force multiplier is when you have a logi that reps everyone around them acting as a real paramedic but those are rare. Edit: And when I say repping everyone I don't mean daisy chain logis. Also, if you are having problems with those pesky armor brick tankers, knock dem shields off then try a Mass driver, those things are pretty OP now, just fortunately not many have noticed to start QQing yet. I run a militia Gallente light suit with a mass driver sometimes which costs like 5k isk, i'll break LOS with an objective being rushed and ground pound it for lots of kills and assists. The biggest issue with 1.8 is that people are still trying to adapt since there were a lot of changes. Unfortunately CCP is apparently jumping the gun in my opinion on heavies. I think a -10% shield reduction on Gallente and a -10% shield reduction on Amarr basic/sentinels is all that is needed but this -20% blanket nerf is going to gimp minnie and caldari basic/sentinels.
SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 474	Posted - 2014.04.02 03:48:00 - [122] - Quote I feel like I am repeating myself, but I just don't understand the sense in the bonuses for deployed equipment going away after a suit change. I repeat, I am referring to DEPLOYED EQUIPMENT (uplinks and nanohives) only, not scanners and rep tools. I would never expect to keep my Minmatar rep tool bonus or Gallente scanner bonus while in another suit. Having the bonuses remain active for deployed equipment seems like such a meager concession considering that: 1. It takes millions and millions of SP to fully spec into all of the logi suits and all of the desired equipment. 2. The deployed equipment is now extremely easy to destroy because its HP has been significantly decreased. 3. The dropsuit command respecs caused a lot of former slayer logis to move into other classes leaving behind true support players whose very support capabilities have been diluted by the new suit changes. 4. No one suit can do it all anymore and therefore only the most dedicated members of the class are willing to invest their skill points in all of the logi suits and play in such a way that would allow them to get the most out of all of the equipment bonuses. I feel like this functionality is such a simple and fair nod to the logi community that it's almost unimaginable that anyone would actively resist its implementation.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 992	Posted - 2014.04.02 03:56:00 - [123] - Quote I agree. However, CCP apparently believed that removing equipment spam was more important -- even if this implementation would likely lead to more rather than less. But let's help them out. How would you propose we solve equipment spam yet keep the bonus to deployed equipment after a suit change? Ideas?
SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 474	Posted - 2014.04.02 06:34:00 - [124] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: I agree. However, CCP apparently believed that removing equipment spam was more important -- even if this implementation would likely lead to more rather than less. But let's help them out. How would you propose we solve equipment spam yet keep the bonus to deployed equipment after a suit change? Ideas? The perfect solution would be to improve stabilization without affecting anything related to game play, including equipment spam. There is nothing inherently wrong with it other than the fact that it is charged with being responsible for lag. However, a short term fix might be to develop a limit to how many overlapping hives a player can have in one place. Perhaps make it so a nanohive deployment can't occur if you're standing anywhere within the pulse of another nanohive. That doesn't put a limit on how many a person can deploy but it certainly restricts where they can be placed. Again, such solutions are not my preference as I think it is well within CCP's capabilities to find a solution that doesn't remove sandbox play elements from the game.
Doc Browner Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 236	Posted - 2014.04.14 23:13:00 - [125] - Quote Minmatar Mercenary 9292 wrote: To me this just makes the Amarr logi the only logi even worth putting points into, if you wanted to be a dedicated logi the uplink bonus is BY FAR the best bonus out of any of them, nanohives are still decent without the bonus, the rep bonus is kinda meh and a scout with good passive scan can be just as effective as a scanner can. So just spam your awesome uplinks then, spam your nanohives then grab your suit with a rep tool, scanner and whatever else and go to town all in your amarr suit. To me the zerg of 3 second uplinks is so much better than the other sh!tty bonus's and if the equipment loses it's bonus upon suit swap i dont think those other suits are worth the SP to me. The proto Nano's pop sooooo fast now, if I have a squad they will eat up 3 in about 7 seconds Just saying, I agree with the rest of your post though I spill my Blood for Freedom and righteousness


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