DUST Search - Why are equipment bonuses going away between suit changes?

M1tch Rapp wrote:

Twelve Guage wrote:

This has to be in intended because it makes no sense for you guys to keep a bonus to your suit when you're not in it.
Suit bonuses go with the suit how people didn't realize this before going into the suit is is beyond me. I mean really that's like saying your assault suit should get a reduction to cloaks because you have skilled into a scout suit fully. If you want your suit bonuses to work stay in your suit the whole match. It's as simple as that.

Equipment not suit bonuses.

You are looking at a 9.6 million SP investment just in logi suits to become an ultimate logi.

Let's say the dude spawns first in an uplink suit. He puts out 3 or 4 well placed uplinks and proceeds to the supply depot. The places a few triage and ammo hives around the point.

Let's say then that the point is being attacked so he/she dies and decides to come in with his min logi to throw down some reps.

I just don't see the abuse in this form of gameplay. But I will say that the tone and the actions of CCP in regards to logi caused me to move away from logi. I think the changes were terrible and it's apparent by the lack of logi being done in most matches.

Personally I think it would be much better if there were one or two types of each equipment with skills that boost said equipment. This way you can't spam equipment. If there are only two types of nanohives (two or three max deployed) it would eliminate spam and still give the ability to bonus super logis who have invested heavily into logi.

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M1tch Rapp Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 69	Posted - 2014.03.31 13:12:00 - [31] - Quote Twelve Guage wrote: This has to be in intended because it makes no sense for you guys to keep a bonus to your suit when you're not in it. Suit bonuses go with the suit how people didn't realize this before going into the suit is is beyond me. I mean really that's like saying your assault suit should get a reduction to cloaks because you have skilled into a scout suit fully. If you want your suit bonuses to work stay in your suit the whole match. It's as simple as that. Equipment not suit bonuses. You are looking at a 9.6 million SP investment just in logi suits to become an ultimate logi. Let's say the dude spawns first in an uplink suit. He puts out 3 or 4 well placed uplinks and proceeds to the supply depot. The places a few triage and ammo hives around the point. Let's say then that the point is being attacked so he/she dies and decides to come in with his min logi to throw down some reps. I just don't see the abuse in this form of gameplay. But I will say that the tone and the actions of CCP in regards to logi caused me to move away from logi. I think the changes were terrible and it's apparent by the lack of logi being done in most matches. Personally I think it would be much better if there were one or two types of each equipment with skills that boost said equipment. This way you can't spam equipment. If there are only two types of nanohives (two or three max deployed) it would eliminate spam and still give the ability to bonus super logis who have invested heavily into logi.
ER-Bullitt Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1292	Posted - 2014.03.31 13:23:00 - [32] - Quote Pretty crumby. Yeah yeah equipment spam sucks, blah blah. But for the dudes who just so happened to not read a tiny note somewhere on the forums regarding this issue, before speccing into all 4 proto logi suits, I feel for you guys. Trying to be the ultimate support players and getting the shaft for it. for shame CCP, for shame.
SteelheadPep SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 82	Posted - 2014.03.31 13:28:00 - [33] - Quote So, they force support logis to skill into different race suits to be able to supple our teams on par with before 1.8, now we do not receive the bonus after skilling into multi suits. Maybe CCP should have made that clear before the respec,and i think it is funny the mercs that are gloating about it, because they are the first ones to complain when they have to spawn in on a slow up link, use a crappy nanohive,unable to get a decent scan,etc..CCP this is supposed to be a team game not COD, Most people stop playing COD after the first week,think about it. I will still try to place (not spam) the best equip. for my team regardless of the selffish trolls that seem to lurk in these forums, see you on the field.
M1tch Rapp Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 69	Posted - 2014.03.31 13:47:00 - [34] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: SirManBoy wrote: Are you familiar with the term false dichotomy? Look it up, champ. Oh no, a person from Melon Lube attempted to act smart. And failed by misusing a term. Well done, now please continue to explain why you should be able to stack bonuses across suits without dying. I'd say he pretty much crushed you. And I can almost guarantee that the person you are attempting to mentally joust with will own you going forward. Sometimes it's best to understand that you are outmatched mentally and just move on.
Scar Scrilla UN1TED NATIONS Caps and Mercs 209	Posted - 2014.03.31 14:15:00 - [35] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: The Black Jackal wrote: I'm hoping that it's intentional... Why you ask? It stops people from dropping favoured equipment, switching suits, and coming back to drop more favoured equipment. You want those really good Uplinks? Well you have to stay Amarr Logistics. I hope it is intentional. Equipment spam is a plague. Tell me how this can prevent from equipment spam. I still "spam" with Callogi and Amarrlogi, but the skills won't apply. The spam stays the same lol....and if u consider the logis' bread and butter (carrying and dropping equipment) as spam u might have gotten something wrong... "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses" "Go and hack the letter(s)" - Join our public channel: UN1TE
Byozuma Kegawa Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 207	Posted - 2014.03.31 14:25:00 - [36] - Quote I'm surprised at the lack of common sense in people these days. So you skilled into Amarr Logistics to take advantage of the new equipment bonus. The bonus isn't attached to the dropsuit, though. It's part of the new Amarr Logistics skill, the Amarr dropsuit conveys the bonus to the equipment. The skill AND dropsuit are what makes the bonus work. If you drop the uplink and switch dropsuits there's nothing conveying the bonus. Just like how putting a scrambler rifle on anything but an Amarr assault or commando dropsuit will get you no benefits against heat or what have you. Now, if your switched fit is another Amarr logistics dropsuit then those uplinks will work as expect and you don't have to cart around unneeded equipment.
Asha Starwind DUST University Ivy League 684	Posted - 2014.03.31 14:34:00 - [37] - Quote Why should it retain the bonus when you change suits? It is a bonus of the suit not the equipment. So if you are not wearing the suit the specific bonus is not in effect. Mad Bomber - 50% less profile Return dumbfire to Swarms
RKKR The Southern Legion League of Infamy 859	Posted - 2014.03.31 15:00:00 - [38] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Why should it retain the bonus when you change suits? It is a bonus of the suit not the equipment. So if you are not wearing the suit the specific bonus is not in effect. Why should the bonus be active when the suit isn't even near the equipment. Why should equipment stay alive when we die? Come on CCP...I know you can make it even worse and more boring to play a support role.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 3216	Posted - 2014.03.31 15:10:00 - [39] - Quote I'd say it was a good thing I went FoTM with the GAL Scout instead of adding the CAL Logi to my Amar Logi, but in truth it doesn't matter at this point as I'm taking an indefinite break. After working so hard for 40M SP and nearly maxing out both Dropsuit and Vehicle Upgrades I'm no longer having fun and I can't think of a thing that SP could buy to change that. I was lured by promises of a deep tactical RTS MMO/FPS and all I got was a low count lobby shooter that doesn't have anything to encourage true team play. Outside of PC It's all headless chickens running around going for kills, and inside it's mostly abusing the mechanics to farm ISK to stomp in pubs. CCP has demonstrated with the latest round of nerfs that they have not a clue what to do about the role of vehicles. They seem to have settled on balancing them 1v1 with the dropsuit which is about all they can do without the ability to give them non-overlapping roles with infantry. That makes the ADS an even larger hole in my wallet than it was. I'll watch Fanfest for indication that CCP has either embraced their original promise or has abandoned that for a simple lobby shooter. Even if it's the former I don't expect them to make any meaningful progress for another year or two.
Disturbingly Bored Forum Warfare 2133	Posted - 2014.03.31 15:19:00 - [40] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: If anything, you're forcing me to play the spam game for quantity rather than providing a large variety of quality support. Agree, that's a major problem. I think a player who dumps the large amount of SP into multiple racial suits to support his team better should be able to enjoy the bonuses of all of them. As it stands, the smartest thing to do is toss down drop uplinks on a cheap fit and then RE yourself to quickly switch to the next. (Not what you had in mind, was it Devs?) I used to own the FAT GAT until this --> [ASCII Art removed - *draconian forum overlord* CCP Logibro]

M1tch Rapp Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 71	Posted - 2014.03.31 15:26:00 - [41] - Quote RKKR wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Why should it retain the bonus when you change suits? It is a bonus of the suit not the equipment. So if you are not wearing the suit the specific bonus is not in effect. Why should the bonus be active when the suit isn't even near the equipment. Why should equipment stay alive when we die? Come on CCP...I know you can make it even worse and more boring to play a support role. I honestly hope they make that change. That way NOBODY EVER throws down any equipment. It would be great. You'd have to either die or go all the way back to a supply depot to get stuff. Sounds fun
LAVALLOIS Nash QcGOLD 60	Posted - 2014.03.31 15:38:00 - [42] - Quote CCP is being very petty in this case. They wanted to nerf everyones equipment unless you are wearing the racial dropsuit. They did this without refunding the SP. Why should someone be penalized for putting millions of SP into Am Logi or Min logi? What if they did so because they already had a million tied up in uplinks and repair tools? Understand that a good logi has to have more than 1 tool on him. The logi suits come with several equipment slots with this in mind. Droplinks is not a full time job. One logi role shouldn't diminish another. Also, as far as equipment spamming goes, this new penalty encourages an Amarr to carry 3 drop uplinks instead of 1 drop, 1 nano, and 1 repair/injector. That means that the Amarr will be playing 33% more uplinks per match. So this new system actually encourages equipment spam and leads to more of it.
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 4979	Posted - 2014.03.31 15:44:00 - [43] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: I'm noticing that the uplinks I drop as an Amarr aren't retaining their bonus as I change suits throughout a match. As a multiracially spec'd logi who tries to adapt to ever-changing conditions on the field, I find this totally unacceptable and tactically nonsensical. Bottom line, is this an error/bug, or is this intentional? My position is this...if you drop a piece of bonus-enhanced equipment then it should retain its effectiveness for as long as it is functional. In other words, suit changes shouldn't cause previously deployed bonus-enhanced equipment to lose its efficacy. What's going on here, CCP? That's intentional. The bonus only applies while you're using the suit it's applied to. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Asha Starwind DUST University Ivy League 686	Posted - 2014.03.31 16:09:00 - [44] - Quote RKKR wrote: Why should the bonus be active when the suit isn't even near the equipment. Becausethere is a difference the suit is in play and not sitting in your inventory. Quote: Why should equipment stay alive when we die? Equipment death on respawn is something I would like to see implemented, would solve the eq spam problem once and for all. Mad Bomber - 50% less profile Return dumbfire to Swarms
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 381	Posted - 2014.03.31 16:17:00 - [45] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: It's to discourage equipment spamming which is the cause of a lot of lag these days. Imagine spawning in with a logi fitted with a lot of uplinks boosted to the max with bonuses and then spam uplinks and hives around a supply depot then swap into your typical assault/scout/sentinal/whatever suit and watch the WPs roll in while at the same time lag is being induced because of excessive spamming. I don't see how this impacts equipment span at all, especially if the intent is to lag the game. I specced into Amarri and Minmatar Logi with the idea of using links then when I die switching to Min to heal, why should I be discouraged from that. How does eliminating my bonus prevent equipment spam? Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 381	Posted - 2014.03.31 16:23:00 - [46] - Quote I really think they are trying to eliminate the logi suit. I can do a logi job better from either a scout suit or a heavy suit if equipment doesn't get a bonus passively. I'd give up my Min bonus to be able to stay alive longer and I don't want to play Amarri and be slow and die so my team can spawn a little faster. Because, that's why.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 3217	Posted - 2014.03.31 16:30:00 - [47] - Quote I'd like some clarification. Do you simply have to be wearing any Amar Logi suit on respawn to retain the bonus, or do you have to also equip the exact model of uplink to retain the bonus? If the former, it forces you to maintain the racial suit but allows you to use different equipment. If the latter it basically says "deploy your equipment and go hide in the corner".
Twelve Guage Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 222	Posted - 2014.03.31 16:47:00 - [48] - Quote M1tch Rapp wrote: Twelve Guage wrote: This has to be in intended because it makes no sense for you guys to keep a bonus to your suit when you're not in it. Suit bonuses go with the suit how people didn't realize this before going into the suit is is beyond me. I mean really that's like saying your assault suit should get a reduction to cloaks because you have skilled into a scout suit fully. If you want your suit bonuses to work stay in your suit the whole match. It's as simple as that. Equipment not suit bonuses. You are looking at a 9.6 million SP investment just in logi suits to become an ultimate logi. Let's say the dude spawns first in an uplink suit. He puts out 3 or 4 well placed uplinks and proceeds to the supply depot. The places a few triage and ammo hives around the point. Let's say then that the point is being attacked so he/she dies and decides to come in with his min logi to throw down some reps. I just don't see the abuse in this form of gameplay. But I will say that the tone and the actions of CCP in regards to logi caused me to move away from logi. I think the changes were terrible and it's apparent by the lack of logi being done in most matches. Personally I think it would be much better if there were one or two types of each equipment with skills that boost said equipment. This way you can't spam equipment. If there are only two types of nanohives (two or three max deployed) it would eliminate spam and still give the ability to bonus super logis who have invested heavily into logi. I happen to think that the tone and action of CCP in this case is to encourage diversity among the logistics class. What is the point to our suits if all we have to do is go to the supply depot to get a bonus. Death Firm recruiter and sandwiches maker. You're been like by Twelve Gauge = her grabbing your @$$.
Mortedeamor Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1471	Posted - 2014.03.31 16:58:00 - [49] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: This "intended mechanic" really takes the shine off of several suits. I have all of the logi suits but under these conditions I see little reason to use something other than the Amarr suit. Sure, I don't get the rep tool, scanner, or nanohive bonus, but I have the ability to spam great uplinks and I still retain the ability to mindlessly spam a large quantity nanohives and/or use a rep tool and/or nanite injector effectively and for huge WP. What exactly is CCP stopping me from doing by locking these bonuses to the suit type? The one thing that they have done is made me far less likely to use my other logi suits. Keeping the bonuses tied to the deployed equipment could have been a cool mechanic for the thinking man's logi who wanted to fully immerse him or herself in the support role and be able to provide the right support at the right time. If anything, you're forcing me to play the spam game for quantity rather than providing a large variety of quality support. Meh. Have it your way, gang. u wanna know what this does...it makes it so when i swap to my logi and spam my **** out its all lower quality..which does not effect me at all...i still get the same wp for each spawn and each increment of hp healed ..personally i dont even wait for my skill bonus to kick in when i swap..i simply swap spam the gear with no bonus and swap back why... because it doesnt hurt me...sure i my gain wp slower off the uplinks but that doesnt bother me... op u should just stop caring...its not like u dont get wp from the gear..and if it hurts anyone it hurts the team not the logi after all these equips we spam are not for us they are for you.. so if their quality dips...that hurts the team not the logi...im not wasteing my time sitting there in one of the most exp roles in dust just to wait for the skill bonus soo the team can get better spawns...not like those 3 sec spawns give me more wp for being 3 sec spawns.. A laser rifle master for life not just for when it becomes popular Long Live the Empress Burn the Heretics
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 382	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:12:00 - [50] - Quote What it means is that when I play Amarri Logi ALL I am going to do is lay uplinks. I'll put down 8 links then hide. Ok, I won't do that but I should. To me this makes no sense, since equipment isn't tied to a clones life, why should the bonus be? I get WP for links I laid down even if I die and spawn in my heavy suit, why should the stats of that link change because I switched suits. There is no consistency. Because, that's why.

Villanor Aquarius WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 168	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:19:00 - [51] - Quote I feel that the equipment should stay at the functional level it was deployed at. If a amarr logi drops 5 links their performance should remain exactly the same as long as they are on the field. The equipment is bonused not some suit that maintains bonuses on equipment. That seems like poor design and doesn't make sense.
Jack Kittinger Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 205	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:20:00 - [52] - Quote On bonuses: If it was previously stated that bonus sticks to your suit not the equipment then the best step is to file a petition, on the other hand thanks for the heads up, OP, I was just about to spend some hefty SP into trying this. Twelve Guage wrote: I happen to think that the tone and action of CCP in this case is to encourage diversity among the logistics class. What is the point to our suits if all we have to do is go to the supply depot to get a bonus.No other class of people is asking for what you guys are asking for why should it be any different because you're a logi. diversity: don't take this personal but staying in a suit that only excels at one piece of equipment to attempt to RepRezResupply is not appealing, to say the least. What is the point to our suits if all we have to do is go to the supply depot to get a bonus this question is on every logi's head, you inadvertently are feelin it man What logis ask for: I interpret that what logis are asking for is: After spending SP to level 4/5 on Nanohives/Uplinks/RepTools/Scans you changed the equipment to work subpar and restricted it to one suit, arbitrarily. Therefore we ask to be able to spend SP into Dropsuit command to use that bonus(say Alogi for Uplinks) and then after spending SP on more than one suit to use another piece of equipment with best possible stats(GalLogi for Scans) we would like those uplinks to be optimal because it was already deployed, my current suit seems trivial to how a piece of equipment works. TL;DR Logis ask that equipment used, after spending the needed SP, remains optimal because the bonus/suit/equipment was earned thru wasting SP Proud winner of the 'Templar BPO Raffle' by Castor Crave!! Lucky Number 29
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 358	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:26:00 - [53] - Quote It really upsets me when things like this make it into the game without being explicitly defined in the patch notes or anywhere. What about switching between AUR or LP suits of the same suit class or level? I switch between ADV and PRO to throw down PRO level nanohives that are too hard to fit on the ADV suits, and now I have to assume CCP is trying to screw me on the logi bonus, and I will have to test these things myself...I doubt the devs even know. There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
Asha Starwind DUST University Ivy League 686	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:50:00 - [54] - Quote Luk Manag wrote: It really upsets me when things like this make it into the game without being explicitly defined in the patch notes or anywhere. What about switching between AUR or LP suits of the same suit class or level? I switch between ADV and PRO to throw down PRO level nanohives that are too hard to fit on the ADV suits, and now I have to assume CCP is trying to screw me on the logi bonus, and I will have to test these things myself...I doubt the devs even know. What are you talking about? You get whatever bonus you are spec'd up to regardless of suit tier. Mad Bomber - 50% less profile Return dumbfire to Swarms
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2549	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:51:00 - [55] - Quote Personally I feel like the cal and amarr logi bonus should work like this: the characteristics of the equipment are a static value that are set when it is dropped. It should be based on the bonus and the type of uplink, and not change for the life of the item. Now, if you wanted to put some type of restrictions, say, you can't swap out at a supply depot for a few minutes for the bonus to be permanent, I can live with it. But what if I switch to a different Amarr logi suit? Should I still keep the bonus? If yes, how have we accomplished the alleged goal of reducing equipment spam? My big problem though is that it has seemed to me like if I die, the bonus is lost. That's a total BS mechanic. Don't want me to swap out all day at a supply depot? Ok, sure, whatever. Sounds fair, after all It's not like tankers can just recall their vehicles when they get damaged, or sentinels swap out when their armor is toast, or commando's when they've already used their nanohive.... hmm. oh wait, yes they can. Still I can live with it. Idgaf about my KDR anyway, so I'm happy to strap some RE's or a MD on my uplink suit and go in rambo style and see if I can take 1 or 2 reds with me before I go down in a blaze of glory. At least let the goddamn bonus stay in that case. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2549	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:56:00 - [56] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Luk Manag wrote: It really upsets me when things like this make it into the game without being explicitly defined in the patch notes or anywhere. What about switching between AUR or LP suits of the same suit class or level? I switch between ADV and PRO to throw down PRO level nanohives that are too hard to fit on the ADV suits, and now I have to assume CCP is trying to screw me on the logi bonus, and I will have to test these things myself...I doubt the devs even know. What are you talking about? You get whatever bonus you are spec'd up to regardless of suit tier. What he's asking is, if he spawns in with a proto suit so he can carry the proto links, then switches at a supply depot to a different amarr logi suit, say maybe an ADV one, does the bonus stay? Different suit, but still an Amarr logi. How should that work? "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
Jack Kittinger Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 206	Posted - 2014.03.31 17:57:00 - [57] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Luk Manag wrote: --_---___--___---_- What are you talking about? You get whatever bonus you are spec'd up to regardless of suit tier. I know!! that's why I loved my STD BPO's... before they changed the skill bonuses. but judging by the way people talked about their fittings when spamming equipment I supposed that had changed as well... Proud winner of the 'Templar BPO Raffle' by Castor Crave!! Lucky Number 29
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 382	Posted - 2014.03.31 18:02:00 - [58] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Simple solution: Die instead of switching suits at a depot. On your next spawn, spawn minny with your rep tool. All the bonuses all for the cost of a suit. Oh, you didn't want to spend a proto suit to just get faster spawns and lots of WP while you play johnny rep tool? Tough. No free lunches. That is not a solution if the same rules apply, and my team benefits from the cost of me providing faster spawns, I get the same WP from militia links. Because, that's why.
RKKR The Southern Legion League of Infamy 864	Posted - 2014.03.31 18:04:00 - [59] - Quote This threads shows who plays a support logi and who doesn't and if you really need to ask why logi-players are asking for this...read the goddamn feedback threads on equipment and dropsuit-changes...you'll only read that the CPU/PG reduction bonus was awesome and that the rest is utter bullshit...and on top of that we get this crap? Go cloak yourself or camp a room with a heavy, you won't get it.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 382	Posted - 2014.03.31 18:13:00 - [60] - Quote I guess I should confirm that this is even true before commenting further but this only affects Cal and Amarri logis. The Amarri logi bonus is the only bonus in the entire game that primarily affects the team rather than the player. I can throw down links for WP, I throw good links and am trying to get a bonus for my team, not me. The same way I hunt for good placement where spawns will be safe or impact the game. The latter gets me killed, lots. I am going to have to check into this further, it defies common sense. Because, that's why.



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