I guess I should confirm that this is even true before commenting further but this only affects Cal and Amarri logis. The Amarri logi bonus is the only bonus in the entire game that primarily affects the team rather than the player. I can throw down links for WP, I throw good links and am trying to get a bonus for my team, not me. The same way I hunt for good placement where spawns will be safe or impact the game. The latter gets me killed, lots.

I am going to have to check into this further, it defies common sense.

What logis ask for: I interpret that what logis are asking for is: After spending SP to level 4/5 on Nanohives/Uplinks/RepTools/Scans you changed the equipment to work subpar and restricted it to one suit, arbitrarily.

Therefore we ask to be able to spend SP into Dropsuit command to use that bonus(say Alogi for Uplinks) and then after spending SP on more than one suit to use another piece of equipment with best possible stats(GalLogi for Scans) we would like those uplinks to be optimal because it was already deployed, my current suit seems trivial to how a piece of equipment works.

TL;DR
Logis ask that equipment used, after spending the needed SP, remains optimal because the bonus/suit/equipment was earned thru wasting SP

Honestly all equipment should be destroyed if you change suits and that piece of equipment is not fitted on the new suit. Think of it as the equipment requiring energy from the suit (PG and CPU) and when connection to that energy source is lost the equipment is destroyed. Would go a long ways in ending equipment spam.

The equipment is not restricted to one suit. It is optimized for one suit.

You restrict it to one suit because you want to make an argument, but it falls apart because you are falsely setting restrictions that don't exist.

Stuff gets nerfed. Deal with it.

Honestly all equipment should be destroyed if you change suits and that piece of equipment is not fitted on the new suit. Think of it as the equipment requiring energy from the suit (PG and CPU) and when connection to that energy source is lost the equipment is destroyed. Would go a long ways in ending equipment spam.

Congrats, your idea just destroyed the logistics class. Your prize is no support. Ever.

I like how the tone seems to be that you cannot be an all around support logi. It's min maxing efficiencies and being pissed that CCP said, "We didn't intend for one logi to be able to do everything a logi can do." You know, you can use a rep tool on a different logi, hell you can rep on a scout. If you want to play TF2 and sit on a heavy and rep spam then run a minnie logi. If you want to be generally useful and actually help more than just one guy on your team making a 1.5 force multiplier then learn to spread the love and be an actual support logi.

All I see in this thread is players who were **** at fps games not wanting to have their easy mode turn into something that requires effort and skill. Logis when used properly, IE not 90% of you jokers, are massive advantages even in their current form. Or did you think clone count, spawn positioning, ammo reps, armor reps, scanners showing enemy positions none of this really helps unless you get that little bit extra for every equip right?

There are so many things wrong right now in this game, logis aren't one of them, you guys have just been spoiled for far too long. I expect to hear the same QQ on hardeners from tank spammers as well, so we better clear out some more room and put this thread to bed.

The equipment is not restricted to one suit. It is optimized for one suit.

You restrict it to one suit because you want to make an argument, but it falls apart because you are falsely setting restrictions that don't exist.

Stuff gets nerfed. Deal with it.

All i See in this post is a player who puts all logis in the "ooh-you-can't-play-fps"-camp.

Remember nano hives in Chromosome? Did anyone complain?

Remember nano hives in Uprising <1.8?

I'm sure you know how quick a hive can go empty since you can tell the difference between a good and bad logi . We're forced to use proto-level equipment while everyone else can still use their standard weapons to kill people as effectively.

Well all I really can say since it's a difference of opinion is:

>We're forced to use proto-level equipment

In PCs, sure that's what errybody does. In pubbies, no you don't, you never need proto anything in a pubby.

You don't have to use any proto gear unless you're bad at the game and need it.

I'll see your I need proto gear to not suck and I'll raise you a well I guess you suck then.

Edit: Because I know it might be coming, I didn't say you can't use proto gear in pubbys but seriously you don't "need" it. If you do, you are bad.

What it means is that anyone doing much at all with deployable equipment is going to be siting on his hands most of the match. Any suit with a significant investment in hives and uplinks is going to be expensive and somewhat squishy, making it a very poor choice for the front line. Instead of swapping out for a more active suit you would be better off cooling your heels back at base.

That is boring as hell, so what will happen is a migration from the Logi suit to the Scout suit for deployment. The Scout has two slots now and enough fitting to make good use of them. It's also faster and stronger and possesses a lower profile and higher precision. The lack of equipment bonus doesn't matter because the Logi suit effectively loses it after you put it away. The Scout makes an ideal logistics platform.

Yes I would suck, I wouldn't be able to support my squad with that advanced nanohive for more than 2 min before I need to search a nearby supply depot to restock which means I'm out of the battle-zone. Because nano hives being depleted in an eye blink is no difference in opinion, it's a fact.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Have fun trying to fit those equipments and fit the scout suit. There is a hugh CPU/PG difference between Logis and Scouts and rightfully so.

Well like I said it's a matter of opinion. By all means I won't argue that you don't need it, I'll just have to assume if your squad is draining adv hives so fast they must either be wrecking the enemy clone count or they can't aim. Either of which sounds like it is working as intended.

Everyone complains if we start shooting people.

Everyone complains about dropping equipment.

Everyone complains that we're constantly reaping one guy.

What else is there to do for a support role?

+ everyone misses the point.

Equipment will be spammed. Bonuses or no bonuses.

Staying in the same suit while all hives or uplinks are depleted = boring gameplay for support roles.

There's such a thing as too much of everything.
Though I never complained about repairs.

So you basically agree that adv hives are **** because you'll spend 90% of your time not with your squad.

and then I haven't talked about the movement of the battle and number of available hives.

Please keep digging your own hole.

So how do we change the game to make it less boring for a support player and less spammy equipment instead of complaining? I never see anyone answer this question.

What? Also, I didn't say the equipment were the problem, my point was a proto scout is going to have lower tier gear and so on and so forth. A adv scout is going to have std tier in equipment or gear, a std scout is going to fall over when someone coughs at it if it's support fitted.

Not saying scouts can't do it, I'm just saying don't expect to fit as much onto them as the equivalent Logi which = less support more speed which isn't necessarily "combat efficiency". You sacrifice a potential support bonus for mobility going that route, but if that's what you want go for it. Just don't expect scouts to be better support on the "support side." You can have whatever fictitious argument you want to straw man up, It doesn't change anything. Also pick a side of your argument, if you think scouts are fine why argue that you can't be a logi without all the bonuses?

What? Also, I didn't say the equipment were the problem, my point was a proto scout is going to have lower tier gear and so on and so forth. A adv scout is going to have std tier in equipment or gear, a std scout is going to fall over when someone coughs at it if it's support fitted.

Not saying scouts can't do it, I'm just saying don't expect to fit as much onto them as the equivalent Logi which = less support more speed which isn't necessarily "combat efficiency". You sacrifice a potential support bonus for mobility going that route, but if that's what you want go for it. Just don't expect scouts to be better support on the "support side." You can have whatever fictitious argument you want to straw man up, It doesn't change anything. Also pick a side of your argument, if you think scouts are fine why argue that you can't be a logi without all the bonuses?

You can fit a proto cloak and a proto piece of equipment and run from one end of the map to the other to deliver the equipment with little to no risk while cloaked. Not many people I know use the same suit from start to finish of any map so this truly makes two of the logi suits worthless for the most part (Amarr and Caldari).

I agree with RKKR, you keep digging yourself into a hole.

You're the one mixing up my posts...and it seems you need to pick a side yourself (I was just pointing out your errors + it seems all bonuses are gone when you switch suits for equipment so why are you arguing that?) or stop using passive phrases that denies your previous statements

And yes if my hives are going to suck and I'm spending 90% of my time running to restock my hives....a scouts mobility is more helpful...the better scans,... would be too because I don't have to tell you that a true logi tries to avoid fights when he is running on his own with crap stamina .

I'm tired of you, see you tomorrow to check the depth of your hole.

[quote=The Black Jackal]I'm hoping that it's intentional... Why you ask? It stops people from dropping favoured equipment, switching suits, and coming back to drop more favoured equipment.

You want those really good Uplinks? Well you have to stay Amarr Logistics.

I respect your opinion.

But regarding your last sentence, the problem was that CCP kind of didn't make this known very well to everyone who doesn't search the forums for one post. This change should have been plastered in bold print at the top of the 1.8 change list. And it wasn't. So folks went ahead and spent millions of SP without the knowledge to make an educated decision.

That is failure, and logi's who simply want to support other players (like you) shouldn't have to deal with THAT.

Hence the point of this thread, I think.

They are two separate points though.

The equipment nerf, and the logi bonuses and how they apply.

On the bonuses, and the manner in which they do apply, CCP absolutely should have been more clear, especailly about what would or would not allow the bonus to function. This is a large part of why I specced Gallente logi, because I was not sure at all how the bonuses would play out, and I suspected that they would not function properly for some weeks.

On the equipment nerf though, it is mostly whining and pining for what was. I can say that running nanohives, a needle and a rep tool on a Gallente logi is not a bad setup for squad support. I could even throw some links if I wanted to.

I still revive guys at 80%, which is darn good enough for even my crappy rep tool(never invested SP, was an Amarr logi before) to top guys off between combat. Sure you have to carry proto hives if you are around muppets, but if you are with a squad who doesn't act a fool with their grenades, advanced hives can go a long way. Sure the links won't get that 4 second spawn time, but if you can't protect a link for 8 seconds, you probably shouldn't put it there anyway.

On top of all that adequate logi work I can put in, I also get super scans.

Oh, and a nice slot layout that lets me rock 700hp at advanced and 900hp at proto with no problems. With anything from 2-15 reps.

Seriously, if you can't logi in the current system, you weren't a good logi in the last build either. You were just an equipment spamming, scan dancing crate hider with a rep tool. The last to die, but always with a full clip.