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Chuckles Brown 97	Posted - 2014.02.20 11:51:00 - [1] - Quote Yes, they take skill to fly and SP to build. However, if it wasn't for railguns; what would keep you guys in check? Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. ADSes are the most powerful thing in the game, so why complain? What is with certain players having a delusion that simply nothing should cause them a death? The Official alt of 8213 Do you pub, brah?
Bayeth Mal OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 77	Posted - 2014.02.20 11:54:00 - [2] - Quote HA!
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 428	Posted - 2014.02.20 11:56:00 - [3] - Quote Forge's wreck them. Neighborhood Bully prof 5 "Gimme yo lunch money"
Beld Errmon 0uter.Heaven 1364	Posted - 2014.02.20 12:01:00 - [4] - Quote Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Forge's wreck them. This, but at least a dropship has a chance against 1 forgegunner, one militia railtank with either a semi competent pilot or a complacent DS pilot equals dead dropship. Even good dropships don't stand much of a chance against 2 good forge gunners, DS will again by a victim of the no doubt incoming AV buff.
Ryme Intrinseca Fatal Absolution 752	Posted - 2014.02.20 12:03:00 - [5] - Quote Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Forge's wreck them. My proficiency 5, two damage mod IAFG takes three shots to down even a mediocre DS. And you have to be a pretty terrible pilot to let a forge gunner hit you three times. Even then, the pilot will probably survive. Would be a VERY easy life without rail tanks.
Beld Errmon 0uter.Heaven 1364	Posted - 2014.02.20 12:03:00 - [6] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: Yes, they take skill to fly and SP to build. However, if it wasn't for railguns; what would keep you guys in check? Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. ADSes are the most powerful thing in the game, so why complain? What is with certain players having a delusion that simply nothing should cause them a death? Oh alt of 90210, you of all ppl should know how easy it is to get rid of an ADS, last week half the squad I believe you were in pulled out rail tanks to shoot mine down.
Beld Errmon 0uter.Heaven 1364	Posted - 2014.02.20 12:06:00 - [7] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Forge's wreck them. My proficiency 5, two damage mod IAFG takes three shots to down even a mediocre DS. And you have to be a pretty terrible pilot to let a forge gunner hit you three times. Even then, the pilot will probably survive. Would be a VERY easy life without rail tanks. But once you start shooting at one you basically render it impotent because it has to leave the area or DIAF, you should try flying a dropship around watch how many ppl suddenly decide to take up duck shooting, its rarely ever 1 person trying to down you.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1277	Posted - 2014.02.20 12:12:00 - [8] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: Yes, they take skill to fly and SP to build. However, if it wasn't for railguns; what would keep you guys in check? Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. ADSes are the most powerful thing in the game, so why complain? What is with certain players having a delusion that simply nothing should cause them a death? Range and RoF plus the dmg mod bonus could be nerfed and the rail would still be a decent counter without this OP at any range, no sp mil fit BS. I kept DS in check before with rails the way they were. You had less RoF via spool up, recharge and overheat time. You could still shoot at one if it was hovering. The repeating mechanic though didn't allow for full damage every time. Right now that RoF with the range is just too fast. DS should have more time to react and then if they fly up and still in a position to be LoS then get the follow up shots. This worked well enough before without a no skill hack easily pulling out an uber rail tank and three shotting a DS before he can react. Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
Sir Snugglz Red Star. EoN. 428	Posted - 2014.02.20 12:19:00 - [9] - Quote Everytime I see a thread about rails being the only thing keeping derpships in check I immediately think of this Rail tanks keep Derpships in check? Last I checked, most of my deaths are from friendly rdvs, MCC, derpship ramming, and suicides.... -Luck is just one of my skills Just because I make flying look easy doesn't mean it is
Nikoli Gleimer The Comet Republic 6	Posted - 2014.02.20 12:26:00 - [10] - Quote I think this is absolutely ridiculous. I'm a an assault dropship pilot, and redline railtanks are messed up. Yes. But i dont think they should be nerfed. Rail gun technology is long range low rate of fire, and high damage. In my opinion the tank fights that tanks have are really fun. I have a tanker in my corp and he uses a missile launcher tank and we own most tanks. The redline is the problem......anybody know why its a huge area of the map? Heres an idea....why not make it like they do in Planetside 2? Make it so wherever the MCC is, it deployes an impenetrable shield, but it makes it into like a dome... This would make redline rail tanks vulnerable to to attacks from assault dropship pilots, and if they want to suvive they would have to put some deffensive modules on, and not all damage mods. Again, i dont think tanks are OP at all(maybe the blaster against infantry, but thats a different topic) What is Op is the price of the tanks (a tank should not cost less than my proto gallente logi suit....just saying) and also the redline.....its not fair that someone can stack all offensive mods, and be able to kill me with no worry with being shot . I would love to engage tanks with my assault dropship, but i can't, because most of them are shooting me from 3 maps away :P

Delta90212 Dust2Dust. Top Men. 279	Posted - 2014.02.20 12:26:00 - [11] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Yes, they take skill to fly and SP to build. However, if it wasn't for railguns; what would keep you guys in check? Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. ADSes are the most powerful thing in the game, so why complain? What is with certain players having a delusion that simply nothing should cause them a death? Oh alt of 90210, you of all ppl should know how easy it is to get rid of an ADS, last week half the squad I believe you were in pulled out rail tanks to shoot mine down. Alt? What alt are you talking about? Fear The Tribes / Standings Minmatar 5 / Gallente 5 / Pilot
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 865	Posted - 2014.02.20 12:30:00 - [12] - Quote In terms of keeping ADS 'in check' infantry do very well. all it takes is a few AV guys to render it completely ineffective in that area. FG's are still immensely powerful and not something we can engage lightly. One mistake and we're in the dirt. Most AV kills I've had are people trying to lone wolf it and failing because they're deluded enough to think they can take me down with my defences up. You also have to remember most DS pilots have had to adapt to survive in much harsher builds so they're well aware of what punishment they can take. "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
Ryme Intrinseca Fatal Absolution 752	Posted - 2014.02.20 12:32:00 - [13] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Forge's wreck them. My proficiency 5, two damage mod IAFG takes three shots to down even a mediocre DS. And you have to be a pretty terrible pilot to let a forge gunner hit you three times. Even then, the pilot will probably survive. Would be a VERY easy life without rail tanks. But once you start shooting at one you basically render it impotent because it has to leave the area or DIAF, you should try flying a dropship around watch how many ppl suddenly decide to take up duck shooting, its rarely ever 1 person trying to down you. One forge is more of an annoyance than a mortal threat for a well built and piloted DS. And if you're tying up two or three opposition players you're doing a great job for the team, even if you're spending most of your time near the flight ceiling. Also there's basically no danger to you when you're recovering at a high altitude, whereas the FGers are sitting ducks for any red that comes their way. Not saying DSes are OP, just that, as Chuckles said, the large rail is needed as a hard counter.
Jackof All-Trades The Black Renaissance 488	Posted - 2014.02.20 12:32:00 - [14] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. I'm going to have to stop you there. My Incubus costs 375K ISK. A redline railgunner can use a fit ~70K ISK and three shot me before my Incubus can even turn properly. This is why railguns are unbalanced. Not the fact they can kill - but the kill they give is cheap and you feel cheated. "Pulvis et umbra sums." We are but dust and shadow GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace \ Omni-Specialist / Focus: Gallente
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 865	Posted - 2014.02.20 12:37:00 - [15] - Quote Sir Snugglz wrote: Everytime I see a thread about rails being the only thing keeping derpships in check I immediately think of this Rail tanks keep Derpships in check? Last I checked, most of my deaths are from friendly rdvs, MCC, derpship ramming, and suicides.... You forgot Null Cannon missiles But maybe thats just me and my insanely bad luck "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1576	Posted - 2014.02.20 12:44:00 - [16] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Forge's wreck them. My proficiency 5, two damage mod IAFG takes three shots to down even a mediocre DS. And you have to be a pretty terrible pilot to let a forge gunner hit you three times. Even then, the pilot will probably survive. Would be a VERY easy life without rail tanks. But once you start shooting at one you basically render it impotent because it has to leave the area or DIAF, you should try flying a dropship around watch how many ppl suddenly decide to take up duck shooting, its rarely ever 1 person trying to down you. One forge is more of an annoyance than a mortal threat for a well built and piloted DS. And if you're tying up two or three opposition players you're doing a great job for the team, even if you're spending most of your time near the flight ceiling. Also there's basically no danger to you when you're recovering at a high altitude, whereas the FGers are sitting ducks for any red that comes their way. Not saying DSes are OP, just that, as Chuckles said, the large rail is needed as a hard counter. Depending on hardeners, shoot the damn week spot and my advanced AFG can 2 shot them lol (and you only have to hit it once ) The answer is "ForgeGun"... doesnt matter what the question is...
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 2140	Posted - 2014.02.20 12:45:00 - [17] - Quote I think the only thing that needs to be checked is gun elevation, as Judge Radamanthus brought up. Dropships should have the ability to use the flight ceiling as their escape zone; however, this isn't the case with the 45 degree tilt on guns. Video: I don't always fight dropships, but when I do...
axu jen The Phoenix Federation Proficiency V. 8	Posted - 2014.02.20 13:01:00 - [18] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: However, if it wasn't for railguns; what would keep you guys in check? RDVs, the ones carrying LAVs usually make me cry.
Beld Errmon 0uter.Heaven 1366	Posted - 2014.02.20 13:46:00 - [19] - Quote Delta90212 wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Yes, they take skill to fly and SP to build. However, if it wasn't for railguns; what would keep you guys in check? Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. ADSes are the most powerful thing in the game, so why complain? What is with certain players having a delusion that simply nothing should cause them a death? Oh alt of 90210, you of all ppl should know how easy it is to get rid of an ADS, last week half the squad I believe you were in pulled out rail tanks to shoot mine down. 90210? Which 90210 are you talking about eh? oh sorry i didn't think anyone was actually sad enough to be called anything with that in it, im just making fun of 8213's number based name.
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 212	Posted - 2014.02.20 14:01:00 - [20] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Forge's wreck them. My proficiency 5, two damage mod IAFG takes three shots to down even a mediocre DS. And you have to be a pretty terrible pilot to let a forge gunner hit you three times. Even then, the pilot will probably survive. Would be a VERY easy life without rail tanks. this +1

Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 213	Posted - 2014.02.20 14:08:00 - [21] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Forge's wreck them. My proficiency 5, two damage mod IAFG takes three shots to down even a mediocre DS. And you have to be a pretty terrible pilot to let a forge gunner hit you three times. Even then, the pilot will probably survive. Would be a VERY easy life without rail tanks. But once you start shooting at one you basically render it impotent because it has to leave the area or DIAF, you should try flying a dropship around watch how many ppl suddenly decide to take up duck shooting, its rarely ever 1 person trying to down you. In my experience Once I start shooting my FG at an ADS it usually, flies at me/over me/around me - spamming missiles til i'm dead Use a Sica with a rail and pretty much the same thing happens. ADS pilots are on the same level as snipers.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 4846	Posted - 2014.02.20 14:36:00 - [22] - Quote Jackof All-Trades wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. I'm going to have to stop you there. My Incubus costs 375K ISK. A redline railgunner can use a fit ~70K ISK and three shot me before my Incubus can even turn properly. This is why railguns are unbalanced. Not the fact they can kill - but the kill they give is cheap and you feel cheated. A MLT Shotgun can 3 shot my 245k Logi suit. Nerf Shotguns. Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub AFK No seriously. My lunch break's over now. :(
Vegetation Monster The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 154	Posted - 2014.02.20 14:39:00 - [23] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: Yes, they take skill to fly and SP to build. However, if it wasn't for railguns; what would keep you guys in check? Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. ADSes are the most powerful thing in the game, so why complain? What is with certain players having a delusion that simply nothing should cause them a death? a proto breach FG almost kills an incubis and swarms can make us go into the death roll. B Double O T Y
Delta90212 Dust2Dust. Top Men. 279	Posted - 2014.02.20 14:39:00 - [24] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: Delta90212 wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Yes, they take skill to fly and SP to build. However, if it wasn't for railguns; what would keep you guys in check? Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. ADSes are the most powerful thing in the game, so why complain? What is with certain players having a delusion that simply nothing should cause them a death? Oh alt of 90210, you of all ppl should know how easy it is to get rid of an ADS, last week half the squad I believe you were in pulled out rail tanks to shoot mine down. 90210? Which 90210 are you talking about eh? oh sorry i didn't think anyone was actually sad enough to be called anything with that in it, im just making fun of 8213's number based name. Eh i just made it up, why? is there a movie or show or anything like that called 90212? Fear The Tribes / Standings Minmatar 5 / Gallente 5 / Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11228	Posted - 2014.02.20 15:10:00 - [25] - Quote If you cant kill ADS with forge guns, youre a bad, particularly in 1.8 when you can have 25% resist to missiles and 3 complex damage mods Swarms do need a buff though Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11228	Posted - 2014.02.20 15:12:00 - [26] - Quote Atiim wrote: Jackof All-Trades wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. I'm going to have to stop you there. My Incubus costs 375K ISK. A redline railgunner can use a fit ~70K ISK and three shot me before my Incubus can even turn properly. This is why railguns are unbalanced. Not the fact they can kill - but the kill they give is cheap and you feel cheated. A MLT Shotgun can 3 shot my 245k Logi suit. Nerf Shotguns. I was unaware mlt shotguns could kill from 400 meters away while being impervious to counter attack You sure enlightened me there. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Zirzo Valcyn Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 129	Posted - 2014.02.20 15:42:00 - [27] - Quote i fly like 5-8 hours a day i have no problem with railguns. it all depends on the map and if your stupid enough to fly high. slow, and into the enemies half of the map you deserve to get railed. i don't have the hardware to promote myself on youtube so who am i to say it's balanced tho.. there going to rip the carpet out once again from dropships because "the top pilots" can't hack it and then we start all over again and they will cry about the next weapon that downs them. u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll.
AP Grasshopper Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 181	Posted - 2014.02.20 15:51:00 - [28] - Quote DS should die, they are getting killed way too easily in 1.7 The redline itself is apart of the balancing issue.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 9446	Posted - 2014.02.20 15:53:00 - [29] - Quote You're forgetting forge guns. No one is suggesting railguns shouldn't be able to kill dropships, but railgun tanks do it way too well because of the elevation and range advantage; they can deny the vast majority of the maps. There is such a thing as being too good at a job. Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHy6CXWk3K4 , this explains the argument, and the modest solution proposal. Why are't you worried about what keeps redline railguns in check? Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 1904	Posted - 2014.02.20 15:57:00 - [30] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: You're forgetting forge guns. No one is suggesting railguns shouldn't be able to kill dropships, but railgun tanks do it way too well because of the elevation and range advantage; they can deny the vast majority of the maps. There is such a thing as being too good at a job. Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHy6CXWk3K4 , this explains the argument, and the modest solution proposal. Why are't you worried about what keeps redline railguns in check? I agree with all the vehicle pilots, make the only good counters to assault drops ships bad, then I can spec into a new fotm ^^

Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 162	Posted - 2014.02.20 15:58:00 - [31] - Quote they complain that AD'S nad std DS in general are underpowere.d now when you get into any game mod with 6 asault dropship's all pakcing xt missiles. you tell me other wise. trust me. 6 assault dropships with xt missiles is death for anything, forge gunner, even rail tanks, that rail tank can be deep in the redline but when you combine dropship speed with xt missiles x6. it aint ganna last long.
Ankbar Latrommi S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance 79	Posted - 2014.02.20 16:03:00 - [32] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: ADSes are the most powerful thing in the game, so why complain? So, which kind of controlled substance is your favorite? Seriously, drop ships?!?! Having a dropship is good, but it has plenty of good counters. They rock anytime they take serious hits it seems, and that can send them into buildings. They still take decent damage from AV, especially my mlt forge. And hello, how about fielding your own ADS? He can't fire at ground troops willy-nilly if you're hitting him from another ADS. Yes, it does take some skill to hit an ADS with your rail turret, whether tank or turret installation. But tanks can be pretty safe from ADS, while the same cannot be said in reverse. (re: Judge's video.) Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." Eve> FPS
AP Grasshopper Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 182	Posted - 2014.02.20 16:04:00 - [33] - Quote Railguns do atleast 400dps more than I think they should at the moment. 1400 is excessive when combined with all that range and accuracy. A Blaster for example only does 970dps with 1/3 the effective range with fall off. IAFG does 500 dps. Caldari rail tech is awesome when compared to Blaster tech whether it be the assault rifles, the specialty weapons or vehicle turrets. It's amazing. Think about it... Caldari -Railgun -Rail Rifle -Sniper Rifle -Swarm Launcher Gallente -Blaster -Assault Rifle -Shotgun -Plasma Cannon If you were to choose one group, either caldari or gallente for your team to use exclusively only those 4 weapons. Which team would you want to be on?
Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES 934	Posted - 2014.02.20 16:10:00 - [34] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Forge's wreck them. This, but at least a dropship has a chance against 1 forgegunner, one militia railtank with either a semi competent pilot or a complacent DS pilot equals dead dropship. Even good dropships don't stand much of a chance against 2 good forge gunners, DS will again by a victim of the no doubt incoming AV buff. thank goodness. Who wants some?
Dauth Jenkins Ultramarine Corp 63	Posted - 2014.02.20 16:16:00 - [35] - Quote We always attempt to balance against assault dropships, but that makes all the standard dropships useless to fly. Unlike an assault, standard dropships don't have the speed to avoid rail tanks. How can you support your team if you need to hover at max hight the entire game. Sees prototompers... Sees blueberries start to snipe... Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11234	Posted - 2014.02.20 16:31:00 - [36] - Quote My favorite part about people who cry OP when it comes to ADS is when you suggest they fly themselves, and they clam up because they can't even get the thing off the ground, let alone rake in kill after kill while avoiding all manner of AV from enemy players to enemy null cannons, MCC missiles, MCCs themselves, RDVs, buildings, being flipped almost completely over by MLT swarms, etc etc etc. Get on our level bro Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES 936	Posted - 2014.02.20 16:38:00 - [37] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: My favorite part about people who cry OP when it comes to ADS is when you suggest they fly themselves, and they clam up because they can't even get the thing off the ground, let alone rake in kill after kill while avoiding all manner of AV from enemy players to enemy null cannons, MCC missiles, MCCs themselves, RDVs, buildings, being flipped almost completely over by MLT swarms, etc etc etc. Get on our level bro Proto forge should be the hard counter to any vehicle. Sadly I have to use a rail tank to save money. You pilots are skilled. Its too bad you have to camp a cru or spawn to rack up kills. I love seeing dropships eat tanks. Or clear off buildings. If I see one killing blueberries or it takes a single shot at me it has to die. You could survive way longer if you see me and look the other way. Same for tanks. Who wants some?
steelRatt L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 11	Posted - 2014.02.20 16:39:00 - [38] - Quote Redline tanks suck so now iv learnt to boom boom lav in to the red to the tanks surprise. I don't think there's a problem with rails damage just there fire rate and elevation. Forge gun work well more then one you might want to bug out tho lol. Swarms poor swarms only good for knocking my ship around. If your 1m to high you can't see the infantry. so remove the redline give swarms some love slow rails fire rate just a little. Power to the people Erm clones. Defeat dose not exist to them that are willing.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11237	Posted - 2014.02.20 16:41:00 - [39] - Quote Darken-Soul wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: My favorite part about people who cry OP when it comes to ADS is when you suggest they fly themselves, and they clam up because they can't even get the thing off the ground, let alone rake in kill after kill while avoiding all manner of AV from enemy players to enemy null cannons, MCC missiles, MCCs themselves, RDVs, buildings, being flipped almost completely over by MLT swarms, etc etc etc. Get on our level bro Proto forge should be the hard counter to any vehicle. Sadly I have to use a rail tank to save money. You pilots are skilled. Its too bad you have to camp a cru or spawn to rack up kills. I love seeing dropships eat tanks. Or clear off buildings. If I see one killing blueberries or it takes a single shot at me it has to die. You could survive way longer if you see me and look the other way. Same for tanks. I get killed by skilled proto forge guns all the time as an Incubus. Pythons have a bit too much against current AV when you consider everything but small railguns do their bonus damage to armor instead of shields, and pythons are faster, more agile, have FAR better anti infantry capability, and have a smaller profile with harder to hit weak spots. We just need anti shield AV and it should even itself out pretty well. If you can't kill an Incubus with a proto forge then you're just bad. At the very least you will force that ship to disengage, and if you bring just a single friend with a forge or swarm in your railgun LAV you should have no trouble keeping him from doing anything very useful. Also, I rarely camp CRUs (when I do it's because I'm covering it waiting for a blue to hack), I get almost all my kills on the fly, so to speak. Camping is strictly against OSG battle doctrine, and it's something that I've looked down upon since the very beginning. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 4851	Posted - 2014.02.20 16:55:00 - [40] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Atiim wrote: Jackof All-Trades wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. I'm going to have to stop you there. My Incubus costs 375K ISK. A redline railgunner can use a fit ~70K ISK and three shot me before my Incubus can even turn properly. This is why railguns are unbalanced. Not the fact they can kill - but the kill they give is cheap and you feel cheated. A MLT Shotgun can 3 shot my 245k Logi suit. Nerf Shotguns. I was unaware mlt shotguns could kill from 400 meters away while being impervious to counter attack You sure enlightened me there. Alright fine you win. I'll make a thread requesting a nerf to the NT-511 Sniper Rifle. Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub AFK No seriously. My lunch break's over now. :(

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 4853	Posted - 2014.02.20 16:58:00 - [41] - Quote Before we give the Railgun the Ye Old Nerf Hammer, we should probably address damage mods and map design first. Maybe even have longer travel time for the rail? Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub AFK No seriously. My lunch break's over now. :(
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 76	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:00:00 - [42] - Quote I kind of agree with the OP on this one. Rail gun tanks are about the only thing keeping ADS's in check at the moment. Swarms are a joke to a good dropship pilot, and forge guns, while relatively effective, take about three shots to kill a dropship, even without its' hardeners. If the piloting system was more like Battlefield, or rather, the ejection system, you could perhaps RE a dropship, but the ejection mechanics suck in this game, so meh. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut5ljm9vw7c&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PLf9aY0O5ldbKK894JfQ65I8r-wkpuFWFa Short story short, I don't think they're OP, the skill required to use them and the Isk invested sort of balances things out, but at the moment, there's nothing else that can really kill a good dropship pilot short of ramming and rail gun turrets. Even concentrated AV fire is shrugged off in most cases, with multiple proto forge gunners being about the only thing that can make a dropship pilot fly for the hills. Sometimes I miss never seeing tanks in a battle... then I remember the mystical flying soma, and I can't help but smile.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11239	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:05:00 - [43] - Quote Atiim wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Atiim wrote: Jackof All-Trades wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. I'm going to have to stop you there. My Incubus costs 375K ISK. A redline railgunner can use a fit ~70K ISK and three shot me before my Incubus can even turn properly. This is why railguns are unbalanced. Not the fact they can kill - but the kill they give is cheap and you feel cheated. A MLT Shotgun can 3 shot my 245k Logi suit. Nerf Shotguns. I was unaware mlt shotguns could kill from 400 meters away while being impervious to counter attack You sure enlightened me there. Alright fine you win. I'll make a thread requesting a nerf to the NT-511 Sniper Rifle. I didn't know the sniper rifle could take out infantry and vehicles alike, and require an orbital or damage stacked railgun to counter. Again, you enlighten me. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Chuckles Brown 102	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:28:00 - [44] - Quote Yes, I watched Judge's video. And it was articulated complaining. 1. He showed himself shooting at a dropship with a railgun, and failed. That proves it takes at least some practice. 2. Tanks sit in the redline because of the very slow tracking speed, turret speed, and poor turret angles. An ADS has the entire sky, a rail has <1% of it to shoot into. Even in Ambush a rail has to be far back as they can get to compete with an ADS. 3. ADS vs a Railgun Tank? ADS can destroy a tank better than anything in the game. XT-1s are crazy powerful. If it wasn't for the redline, that tank would be a coffin for for a ADS to nail shut. 4. ADSes are dangerous to your team, so they should be destroyed as a first priority. 5. Going back to my OP. If it wasn't for rails, what would stop a ADS from raining complete destruction in a match? In 1.7 I'm seeing ADSes go 30/40-0 in matches constantly. Their is ONE thing that counters your destruction capability and you complain?? 6. How many shots miss you and/or do avoid before you finally get shot down? Shooting an ADS that doesn't have a hardener, afterrburner, and is in sight of the <1% of the sky you can patrol is a narrow window to be killed. Perhaps become a better pilot? Judge's video also had flaws and misinformation, as it was just well structured b*tching and delusion. The Official alt of 8213 Do you pub, brah?
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 4856	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:30:00 - [45] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I didn't know the sniper rifle could take out infantry and vehicles alike, and require an orbital or damage stacked railgun to counter. Again, you enlighten me. I'll grab the Pitch Forks, and you can get the Clubs. We're nerfing 20GJ Particle Cannons now. Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub AFK No seriously. My lunch break's over now. :(
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11241	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:35:00 - [46] - Quote Atiim wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I didn't know the sniper rifle could take out infantry and vehicles alike, and require an orbital or damage stacked railgun to counter. Again, you enlighten me. I'll grab the Pitch Forks, and you can get the Clubs. We're nerfing 20GJ Particle Cannons now. I've actually proposed general buffs to railguns in exchange for removing their stupid redline crutch, the real culprit when it comes to railgun damage is being able to stack damage mods. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Chuckles Brown 102	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:36:00 - [47] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I didn't know the sniper rifle could take out infantry and vehicles alike, and require an orbital or damage stacked railgun to counter. Again, you enlighten me. Sounds like you just described your ADS... SO, YOU AGREE WITH MY OP! Ha! The Official alt of 8213 Do you pub, brah?
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11241	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:38:00 - [48] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I didn't know the sniper rifle could take out infantry and vehicles alike, and require an orbital or damage stacked railgun to counter. Again, you enlighten me. Sounds like you just described your ADS... SO, YOU AGREE WITH MY OP! Ha! Hardly, I've already stated that bad players who try to solo with swarm launchers can't kill us, and that Pythons have added defense in the fact that no AV does bonus damage to shields But, that would require reading on your part, and you're just whining because you got raped by a good pilot. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Chuckles Brown 102	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:49:00 - [49] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I didn't know the sniper rifle could take out infantry and vehicles alike, and require an orbital or damage stacked railgun to counter. Again, you enlighten me. Sounds like you just described your ADS... SO, YOU AGREE WITH MY OP! Ha! Hardly, I've already stated that bad players who try to solo with swarm launchers can't kill us, and that Pythons have added defense in the fact that no AV does bonus damage to shields But, that would require reading on your part, and you're just whining because you got raped by a good pilot. Didn't you post a video of you wrecking with an ADS? What is your KD and score with an ADS? Because I've yet to see you get shot down in game. Are you going broke flying DSes? I already stated piloting takes skills. But without rails what would stop you? The Official alt of 8213 Do you pub, brah?
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11243	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:54:00 - [50] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I didn't know the sniper rifle could take out infantry and vehicles alike, and require an orbital or damage stacked railgun to counter. Again, you enlighten me. Sounds like you just described your ADS... SO, YOU AGREE WITH MY OP! Ha! Hardly, I've already stated that bad players who try to solo with swarm launchers can't kill us, and that Pythons have added defense in the fact that no AV does bonus damage to shields But, that would require reading on your part, and you're just whining because you got raped by a good pilot. Didn't you post a video of you wrecking with an ADS? What is your KD and score with an ADS? Because I've yet to see you get shot down in game. Are you going broke flying DSes? I already stated piloting takes skills. But without rails what would stop you? I have never once proposed the removal of railguns, because I'm not ***** ****. It's the redline that's the issue. Both players should have the opportunity to engage each other at all times. The redline is a ***** abomination and needs to go in favor of something more sane and more seated in lore and realism. I've posted a couple videos, and those are from months of playtime and literally over a year of learning how to pilot. Any dumbass can grab a MLT tank, stack damage mods, hug the redline and keep us from doing our job. I die to forge guns often enough if they can aim because they do bonus damage to my ship, my ship is much slower than a python, and I have larger weakspots. I was going broke but I won one of Castors giveaways, not that I would have needed it if I hadn't burned nearly 100 million ISK trying to be a dedicated Prometheus pilot when Uprising launched. (1.4 million ISK paper airplanes anyone?) I have stated on numerous occasions that swarms need a tiny buff to damage and a healthy buff to projectile speed, and that plasma cannons need a reason to exist period. Also, as I have yet again already stated, all it takes to keep an ADS from being too useful is two AV players in a Railgun LAV chasing him around the map. At best he will be fleeing most of the time and hugging the flight ceiling, while you are still useful against tanks and other LAVs, as well as acting as emergency hackers if an area is clear. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot

Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES 942	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:58:00 - [51] - Quote Jackof All-Trades wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. I'm going to have to stop you there. My Incubus costs 375K ISK. A redline railgunner can use a fit ~70K ISK and three shot me before my Incubus can even turn properly. This is why railguns are unbalanced. Not the fact they can kill - but the kill they give is cheap and you feel cheated. I got a boundless hmg fit that costs 175k. There isn't a damn thing I can do to hurt your dropship but you can 3shot me two seconds after I spawn. Who wants some?
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 529	Posted - 2014.02.20 17:59:00 - [52] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: Yes, they take skill to fly and SP to build. However, if it wasn't for railguns; what would keep you guys in check? Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. ADSes are the most powerful thing in the game, so why complain? What is with certain players having a delusion that simply nothing should cause them a death? Forge guns, swarm launchers, blasters, railguns that AREN'T in the redline. You seem to forget that any dropship pilot is just plain out in the open, it takes a while to get to cover and I know if I take 2 forge gun shots, maybe even 1, I bail immediately, at least in a militia dropship. In tougher dropships I can stick around for a while but the simple fact is redline railgun tanks are not in the fight and therefore take no risks, railtanks are cheap and can hit and track a dropship anywhere on the map from the redline, and because they don't need health since if they get shot they can just back up, they stack damage mods. So why complain? Because currently there is a mechanic in the game that denies ANY vehicle from being called on to the field (especially dropships because they are vulnerable and squishy) that has zero risk for the player that takes advantage of it, it's unfair, it's broken, it's OP, it's unbalanced, it's just plain wrong, even CCP acknowledges this, why haven't you? This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11247	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:00:00 - [53] - Quote Darken-Soul wrote: Jackof All-Trades wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. I'm going to have to stop you there. My Incubus costs 375K ISK. A redline railgunner can use a fit ~70K ISK and three shot me before my Incubus can even turn properly. This is why railguns are unbalanced. Not the fact they can kill - but the kill they give is cheap and you feel cheated. I got a boundless hmg fit that costs 175k. There isn't a damn thing I can do to hurt your dropship but you can 3shot me two seconds after I spawn. Hey guys, I can't kill that sniper with my SMG from 200 meters NERF SNIPERS!!!!!!! Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 529	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:00:00 - [54] - Quote Darken-Soul wrote: Jackof All-Trades wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. I'm going to have to stop you there. My Incubus costs 375K ISK. A redline railgunner can use a fit ~70K ISK and three shot me before my Incubus can even turn properly. This is why railguns are unbalanced. Not the fact they can kill - but the kill they give is cheap and you feel cheated. I got a boundless hmg fit that costs 175k. There isn't a damn thing I can do to hurt your dropship but you can 3shot me two seconds after I spawn. That's because HMG isn't an AV weapon, would you try to take on a tank with your boundless? A dropship is not a dropsuit. This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
Chuckles Brown 102	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:01:00 - [55] - Quote Because of angles and tracking a rail has to be far back. Redline or not, they are going to shoot you from 500m. Its nice that you bring up woulda, coulda, shoulda for AV, but until then; railguns are your only counter. Maybe take a day and redline rail DSes before you judge it? The Official alt of 8213 Do you pub, brah?
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1662	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:02:00 - [56] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: Yes, they take skill to fly and SP to build. However, if it wasn't for railguns; what would keep you guys in check? Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. ADSes are the most powerful thing in the game, so why complain? What is with certain players having a delusion that simply nothing should cause them a death? NO OTHER ITEM IN THE GAME HAS SUCH AN EXPESNSIVE RISK/REWARD RATIO! seriously, the risk of losing a 100's of 1,000's of isk from a dropship compared to the reward of kill 3-4 ppl is not justified. Remember; normally after the first 2-3 kills one of those people comback with AV (giving you time for perhaps 1-2 more kills) 1-3 shots max from a rail tank will kill them (even militia rails). All rails can hit you clear from one side of the map to the other you must be within range of AV inorder to use your missiles. you must get relatively still inorder to hit anything with dropships turrets, making you an easy target. when AV comes out, even if it doesn't kill you it renders your dropship useless. Either you stay and die or retreat. Lav's have more advantages than dropships at half the cost. im thinking of just driving one of those around and spamming missles with lav's. they are much more effective Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES 942	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:03:00 - [57] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Darken-Soul wrote: Jackof All-Trades wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. I'm going to have to stop you there. My Incubus costs 375K ISK. A redline railgunner can use a fit ~70K ISK and three shot me before my Incubus can even turn properly. This is why railguns are unbalanced. Not the fact they can kill - but the kill they give is cheap and you feel cheated. I got a boundless hmg fit that costs 175k. There isn't a damn thing I can do to hurt your dropship but you can 3shot me two seconds after I spawn. Hey guys, I can't kill that sniper with my SMG from 200 meters NERF SNIPERS!!!!!!! I was mimicking the post I quoted. One defending you. You just want to argue I am simply bored. We can make a day of it. Who wants some?
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11247	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:03:00 - [58] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: Because of angles and tracking a rail has to be far back. Redline or not, they are going to shoot you from 500m. Its nice that you bring up woulda, coulda, shoulda for AV, but until then; railguns are your only counter. Maybe take a day and redline rail DSes before you judge it? I've been playing for 2 ******* years, pull your head out of your ass and realize that plenty of players know what they're talking about, and you're just mad because bad. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1662	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:04:00 - [59] - Quote Darken-Soul wrote: Jackof All-Trades wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. I'm going to have to stop you there. My Incubus costs 375K ISK. A redline railgunner can use a fit ~70K ISK and three shot me before my Incubus can even turn properly. This is why railguns are unbalanced. Not the fact they can kill - but the kill they give is cheap and you feel cheated. I got a boundless hmg fit that costs 175k. There isn't a damn thing I can do to hurt your dropship but you can 3shot me two seconds after I spawn. actually, hmg does alot of damage to dropships. when you combine that with AV you can take one hout. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11247	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:06:00 - [60] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: Darken-Soul wrote: Jackof All-Trades wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. I'm going to have to stop you there. My Incubus costs 375K ISK. A redline railgunner can use a fit ~70K ISK and three shot me before my Incubus can even turn properly. This is why railguns are unbalanced. Not the fact they can kill - but the kill they give is cheap and you feel cheated. I got a boundless hmg fit that costs 175k. There isn't a damn thing I can do to hurt your dropship but you can 3shot me two seconds after I spawn. actually, hmg does alot of damage to dropships. when you combine that with AV you can take one hout. As dumb as it sounds, this is actually true. Yet AGAIN, more towards the Incubus, because yet AGAIN, it does its bonus damage to armor and not shields @_@ Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot

Ankbar Latrommi S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance 81	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:07:00 - [61] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: Yes, I watched Judge's video. And it was articulated complaining. 1. He showed himself shooting at a dropship with a railgun, and failed. That proves it takes at least some practice. 2. Tanks sit in the redline because of the very slow tracking speed, turret speed, and poor turret angles. An ADS has the entire sky, a rail has <1% of it to shoot into. Even in Ambush a rail has to be far back as they can get to compete with an ADS. 3. ADS vs a Railgun Tank? ADS can destroy a tank better than anything in the game. XT-1s are crazy powerful. If it wasn't for the redline, that tank would be a coffin for for a ADS to nail shut. 4. ADSes are dangerous to your team, so they should be destroyed as a first priority. 5. Going back to my OP. If it wasn't for rails, what would stop a ADS from raining complete destruction in a match? In 1.7 I'm seeing ADSes go 30/40-0 in matches constantly. Their is ONE thing that counters your destruction capability and you complain?? 6. How many shots miss you and/or do avoid before you finally get shot down? Shooting an ADS that doesn't have a hardener, afterrburner, and is in sight of the <1% of the sky you can patrol is a narrow window to be killed. Perhaps become a better pilot? Judge's video also had flaws and misinformation, as it was just well structured b*tching and delusion. 1) Never denied that, in fact I agree. 2) Judge's video spends a good deal of time countering the argument that "an ADS has the entire sky", and you provide nothing to counter his argument. Doesn't have to be here, a link would suffice. 3) "can destroy better"...isn't that it's role? 4) Agreed, but as with every other "OP" complaint, it takes teamwork to do. It isn't the dropship's stat's fault people keep lonewolfing off comms. 5 & 6) These comments have a focus on kdr, rather than winning. It doesn't matter if I destroy a dropship or not, if I have driven it out of being relevant to the battle taking place to go off and lick its wounds. Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." Eve> FPS
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 529	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:08:00 - [62] - Quote Darken-Soul wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Darken-Soul wrote: Jackof All-Trades wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. I'm going to have to stop you there. My Incubus costs 375K ISK. A redline railgunner can use a fit ~70K ISK and three shot me before my Incubus can even turn properly. This is why railguns are unbalanced. Not the fact they can kill - but the kill they give is cheap and you feel cheated. I got a boundless hmg fit that costs 175k. There isn't a damn thing I can do to hurt your dropship but you can 3shot me two seconds after I spawn. Hey guys, I can't kill that sniper with my SMG from 200 meters NERF SNIPERS!!!!!!! I was mimicking the post I quoted. One defending you. You just want to argue I am simply bored. We can make a day of it. Oops :) This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES 942	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:09:00 - [63] - Quote Komodo Jones wrote: Darken-Soul wrote: Jackof All-Trades wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. I'm going to have to stop you there. My Incubus costs 375K ISK. A redline railgunner can use a fit ~70K ISK and three shot me before my Incubus can even turn properly. This is why railguns are unbalanced. Not the fact they can kill - but the kill they give is cheap and you feel cheated. I got a boundless hmg fit that costs 175k. There isn't a damn thing I can do to hurt your dropship but you can 3shot me two seconds after I spawn. That's because HMG isn't an AV weapon, would you try to take on a tank with your boundless? A dropship is not a dropsuit. Again I was making a comparison to the post I quoted. Let me break it down. He is crying about a cheap death. I invented a cheap death and all concerns for getting hosed by a threat you can't deal with went out the window. You people simply want to argue. I can do this all day. Who wants some?
Awry Barux New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 951	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:10:00 - [64] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: D legendary hero wrote: Darken-Soul wrote: Jackof All-Trades wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. I'm going to have to stop you there. My Incubus costs 375K ISK. A redline railgunner can use a fit ~70K ISK and three shot me before my Incubus can even turn properly. This is why railguns are unbalanced. Not the fact they can kill - but the kill they give is cheap and you feel cheated. I got a boundless hmg fit that costs 175k. There isn't a damn thing I can do to hurt your dropship but you can 3shot me two seconds after I spawn. actually, hmg does alot of damage to dropships. when you combine that with AV you can take one hout. As dumb as it sounds, this is actually true. Yet AGAIN, more towards the Incubus, because yet AGAIN, it does its bonus damage to armor and not shields @_@ Actually the reason is much bigger than that- HMG won't break shield regen on a Python, so the Python only suffers a net loss of 100 DPS at most, but it'll easily out DPS even a complex heavy repper Incubus by much more than that.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11248	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:10:00 - [65] - Quote Darken-Soul wrote: Komodo Jones wrote: Darken-Soul wrote: Jackof All-Trades wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. I'm going to have to stop you there. My Incubus costs 375K ISK. A redline railgunner can use a fit ~70K ISK and three shot me before my Incubus can even turn properly. This is why railguns are unbalanced. Not the fact they can kill - but the kill they give is cheap and you feel cheated. I got a boundless hmg fit that costs 175k. There isn't a damn thing I can do to hurt your dropship but you can 3shot me two seconds after I spawn. That's because HMG isn't an AV weapon, would you try to take on a tank with your boundless? A dropship is not a dropsuit. Again I was making a comparison to the post I quoted. Let me break it down. He is crying about a cheap death. I invented a cheap death and all concerns for getting hosed by a threat you can't deal with went out the window. You people simply want to argue. I can do this all day. The main difference here being that tanks and dropships should counter each other, where as HMGs should never be a counter to vehicles. So, while you may be defending us, it was a poor example because it doesn't take the basic factors into account. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES 942	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:13:00 - [66] - Quote Also I just made an alt to redline rail dropships while we are discussing this. Who wants some?
Evan Gotabor Prima Gallicus 12	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:24:00 - [67] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: Yes, they take skill to fly and SP to build. However, if it wasn't for railguns; what would keep you guys in check? Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. ADSes are the most powerful thing in the game, so why complain? What is with certain players having a delusion that simply nothing should cause them a death? Shoot with a rail is like to create a forum thread with no reflexions : easy and very stupid Rail are op it is a fact as well as for ADS than for any other player. But more visible for ADS and dropships in general. I suggest you watch this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHy6CXWk3K4 It is very instructive on the railgun too OP side. We are like the others vehicles, we need an AV buff to stay in balance. For what I have saw, Swarm launcher are powerful enough if well builded (don't expect to kill an ADS with your militia swarm). However, they need more range, something beetween 200 and 250m. So they can have a good range and make any ADS player think twice before he try another pass. That should be enough to create us more danger positions and destroy a running tank, but not enough to do what they used to : hide on the top of a tower and kill vehicles. Gallente logistic dropsuit / Dropship pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11248	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:28:00 - [68] - Quote Evan Gotabor wrote: However, they need more range, something beetween 200 and 250m. So they can have a good range and make any ADS player think twice before he try another pass. That should be enough to create us more danger positions and destroy a running tank, but not enough to do what they used to : hide on the top of a tower and kill vehicles. They really don't need any more range, considering the range limit is only for lockons. Swarm missiles will fly almost all the way up the flight ceiling, it's just that the dropship has to come in closer for you to start firing. That's balanced. What isn't balanced is that you can outrun / mitigate all damage from swarms with afterburners. A buff to swarm launcher projectile speed would fix this, while still letting afterburners be useful for quickly disengaging or finding cover. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 729	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:33:00 - [69] - Quote I want to know how many people here whining about ADS have actually flown one. Best PVE idea I've seen.
Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES 943	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:36:00 - [70] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: I want to know how many people here whining about ADS have actually flown one. 23 Who wants some?

Varjac Theobroma Montenegro PAND3M0N1UM Lokun Listamenn 185	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:38:00 - [71] - Quote Naw, maybe the ADS you are trying to down are just good pilots. Very few noobs fly them ya know. They are sorta rare on the field, and when you see one, most likely Tthe pilot is decent to say the least. And I lose plenty. Proto swarms hunt you down, forge, rail LAVs, take your pick man. There are plenty of options to combat DS, only one to combat tanks. Today I had been getting harassed by a single LAV with a rail.i was shocked at how much damage he was doing, if he had a driver or a forge riding coach that would dominate the prescence of a ADS. FAME Click Here for Recruitment
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1662	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:40:00 - [72] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: D legendary hero wrote: Darken-Soul wrote: Jackof All-Trades wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. I'm going to have to stop you there. My Incubus costs 375K ISK. A redline railgunner can use a fit ~70K ISK and three shot me before my Incubus can even turn properly. This is why railguns are unbalanced. Not the fact they can kill - but the kill they give is cheap and you feel cheated. I got a boundless hmg fit that costs 175k. There isn't a damn thing I can do to hurt your dropship but you can 3shot me two seconds after I spawn. actually, hmg does alot of damage to dropships. when you combine that with AV you can take one hout. As dumb as it sounds, this is actually true. Yet AGAIN, more towards the Incubus, because yet AGAIN, it does its bonus damage to armor and not shields @_@ thats why i fly shield DS, although not much of a difference, rails strip your shields instantly, and HMG, flaylock, swarms, etc pwn. the only thing flaylocks actually work on are DS because it knocks them off balance. serious DS are UP, they are the only vehicle in the game that can be killed in one shot by a flaylock Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
Evan Gotabor Prima Gallicus 12	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:40:00 - [73] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Evan Gotabor wrote: However, they need more range, something beetween 200 and 250m. So they can have a good range and make any ADS player think twice before he try another pass. That should be enough to create us more danger positions and destroy a running tank, but not enough to do what they used to : hide on the top of a tower and kill vehicles. They really don't need any more range, considering the range limit is only for lockons. Swarm missiles will fly almost all the way up the flight ceiling, it's just that the dropship has to come in closer for you to start firing. That's balanced. What isn't balanced is that you can outrun / mitigate all damage from swarms with afterburners. A buff to swarm launcher projectile speed would fix this, while still letting afterburners be useful for quickly disengaging or finding cover. True for the afterburners, but I still think that 150 meters to lock on is too poor, when you have the ability to disengage with a dropship, it include both altitude and "ground range" (X and Y axes), which mean a very short distance in practice. With luck a swarm can take you out with 3 salvos but it require a proto swarm (4/5 damages skills level) with a lot of damagers and a dropship without hardener. To say the least, they are for the moment as rare as ADS pilots themselves. Gallente logistic dropsuit / Dropship pilot
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro PAND3M0N1UM Lokun Listamenn 185	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:59:00 - [74] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Evan Gotabor wrote: However, they need more range, something beetween 200 and 250m. So they can have a good range and make any ADS player think twice before he try another pass. That should be enough to create us more danger positions and destroy a running tank, but not enough to do what they used to : hide on the top of a tower and kill vehicles. They really don't need any more range, considering the range limit is only for lockons. Swarm missiles will fly almost all the way up the flight ceiling, it's just that the dropship has to come in closer for you to start firing. That's balanced. What isn't balanced is that you can outrun / mitigate all damage from swarms with afterburners. A buff to swarm launcher projectile speed would fix this, while still letting afterburners be useful for quickly disengaging or finding cover. Maybe for mlt or std, possibly adv. pro are just fine. I lost two yesterday to swarms. I had been hit by a forge though too, but as no aiming is required, the upper tiers are very useful. However, I would want to know the POV from a proto swarm user. FAME Click Here for Recruitment
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2872	Posted - 2014.02.20 19:01:00 - [75] - Quote The risk/reward equation between the redline rail tank and the dropship is ludicrously lopsided in favor of the rail. The redline rail has: Zero SP requirement Zero situational awareness requirement No player skill requirement Control over 90% of the map No natural predator Very low cost even if they screw up so badly they loose it with all those advantages The dropship has: Several million SP requirement High situational awareness requirement coupled with misleading hit direction indicators The highest player skill requirement of any role in the game Has about a 100M visibility and the attack range of the small missile Stick out like a sore thumb against the blank sky. Cost three arms and four legs along with a couple torsos Basically the cheapest and least skilled role can completely shut down the most expensive and skilled role. I built a cheap MLT Sica with dual damage mods to see what I was up against and found it stupid easy to pop a dropship if it tried to do anything effective. One quick spool up followed by 3-4 shots and I sent enough damage to drop anything. I could keep taking pot shots at a ship up at the flight ceiling or as it raced full speed around the map, keeping it running scared as I sat in my lawn chair at the beach. Dropship pilots are justifiably proud of having mastered flight and aren't looking for an easy mode. Do you think we would have chosen dropships if we weren't masochists at heart? Would we have invested tens of millions of ISK in training ships if we wanted to make money? Do you know how to make a small fortune in dropships? Start with a large fortune.... We are simply looking for a challenge we can sink our teeth into, a fair fight.
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro PAND3M0N1UM Lokun Listamenn 185	Posted - 2014.02.20 19:07:00 - [76] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: D legendary hero wrote: Darken-Soul wrote: [quote=Jackof All-Trades][quote=Chuckles Brown]Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. I'm going to have to stop you there. My Incubus costs 375K ISK. A redline railgunner can use a fit ~70K ISK and three shot me before my Incubus can even turn properly. This is why railguns are unbalanced. Not the fact they can kill - but the kill they give is cheap and you feel cheated. I got a boundless hmg fit that costs 175k. There isn't a damn thing I can do to hurt your dropship but you can 3shot me two seconds after I spawn. You have a choice to spawn in a much more affordable suit in a pub. That's your decision to risk that isk. There is no cheaper ADS, they're all rich boy fits. FAME Click Here for Recruitment
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 435	Posted - 2014.02.20 20:04:00 - [77] - Quote Happy Violentime wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Forge's wreck them. My proficiency 5, two damage mod IAFG takes three shots to down even a mediocre DS. And you have to be a pretty terrible pilot to let a forge gunner hit you three times. Even then, the pilot will probably survive. Would be a VERY easy life without rail tanks. this +1 Ok, I also have the same fit. Any ADS is 2 shot most, 3 shot if its Snugglz fit. Even at 3 shots, the FG cracks the ADS hard enough to interrupt aim, and if you can time your shots while its banking a turn, you can force them into evasive action. A forger on a roof top can render an ADS virtually ineffective. Forcing it to engage only while hardeners are up, even with them still a 3 shot kill. And it is tough for an ADS to try to aim AND evade because even 1 shot can throw aiming off by a large margin. You don't have to kill the ADS, you just have to keep him away and he's ineffective. They won't engage without hardeners cause its virtually insta-death. Couple that with the turn speed of a FG and unlimited field of view, and a FG is a highly effective counter. I forge from towers in PC (nikka witagun) and the majority of my points are from two shotting ADS's. Snugglz is the only DS that's ever taken 3 (probably due to lack of dedicated DS pilots tho). Neighborhood Bully prof 5 "Gimme yo lunch money"
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 435	Posted - 2014.02.20 20:14:00 - [78] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: Yes, I watched Judge's video. And it was articulated complaining. 1. He showed himself shooting at a dropship with a railgun, and failed. That proves it takes at least some practice. 2. Tanks sit in the redline because of the very slow tracking speed, turret speed, and poor turret angles. An ADS has the entire sky, a rail has <1% of it to shoot into. Even in Ambush a rail has to be far back as they can get to compete with an ADS. 3. ADS vs a Railgun Tank? ADS can destroy a tank better than anything in the game. XT-1s are crazy powerful. If it wasn't for the redline, that tank would be a coffin for for a ADS to nail shut. 4. ADSes are dangerous to your team, so they should be destroyed as a first priority. 5. Going back to my OP. If it wasn't for rails, what would stop a ADS from raining complete destruction in a match? In 1.7 I'm seeing ADSes go 30/40-0 in matches constantly. Their is ONE thing that counters your destruction capability and you complain?? 6. How many shots miss you and/or do avoid before you finally get shot down? Shooting an ADS that doesn't have a hardener, afterrburner, and is in sight of the <1% of the sky you can patrol is a narrow window to be killed. Perhaps become a better pilot? Judge's video also had flaws and misinformation, as it was just well structured btching and delusion. Seriously, stop btching about ADS's. Invite Nikka to a squad. Hire me for ADS bounty. I will show you how ******* easy it is to crush derpships with a forge. You will pay me 250,000 ISK for each ADS I destroy, since you think they are so OP. Neighborhood Bully prof 5 "Gimme yo lunch money"
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7361	Posted - 2014.02.20 20:18:00 - [79] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: Yes, they take skill to fly and SP to build. However, if it wasn't for railguns; what would keep you guys in check? Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. ADSes are the most powerful thing in the game, so why complain? What is with certain players having a delusion that simply nothing should cause them a death? They are amazingly powerful the right hands. Sir Snugglez always proves this. Halador does as well. However they are glass cannons, for their capacity with enough skill and time invested into the vehicle, to murder infantry with 1/2 shots, and their speed.... the whole flying thing is nice too. Rails are essentially the dropships hard counter. "Just know that though our enemies may only #YOLO, through God's grace we can #YOLF at his side." - Disciple of Kesha
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 435	Posted - 2014.02.20 20:18:00 - [80] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Because of angles and tracking a rail has to be far back. Redline or not, they are going to shoot you from 500m. Its nice that you bring up woulda, coulda, shoulda for AV, but until then; railguns are your only counter. Maybe take a day and redline rail DSes before you judge it? I've been playing for 2 ******* years, pull your head out of your ass and realize that plenty of players know what they're talking about, and you're just mad because bad. I can only like once Neighborhood Bully prof 5 "Gimme yo lunch money"

CEOPyrex CloneA The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 613	Posted - 2014.02.20 20:22:00 - [81] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: Yes, I watched Judge's video. And it was articulated complaining. 1. He showed himself shooting at a dropship with a railgun, and failed. That proves it takes at least some practice. 2. Tanks sit in the redline because of the very slow tracking speed, turret speed, and poor turret angles. An ADS has the entire sky, a rail has <1% of it to shoot into. Even in Ambush a rail has to be far back as they can get to compete with an ADS. 3. ADS vs a Railgun Tank? ADS can destroy a tank better than anything in the game. XT-1s are crazy powerful. If it wasn't for the redline, that tank would be a coffin for for a ADS to nail shut. 4. ADSes are dangerous to your team, so they should be destroyed as a first priority. 5. Going back to my OP. If it wasn't for rails, what would stop a ADS from raining complete destruction in a match? In 1.7 I'm seeing ADSes go 30/40-0 in matches constantly. Their is ONE thing that counters your destruction capability and you complain?? 6. How many shots miss you and/or do avoid before you finally get shot down? Shooting an ADS that doesn't have a hardener, afterrburner, and is in sight of the <1% of the sky you can patrol is a narrow window to be killed. Perhaps become a better pilot? Judge's video also had flaws and misinformation, as it was just well structured b*tching and delusion. 1 - Shallow attempt to retain the overpowered nature of a fit you most likely favour. 2 - See point 1
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1520	Posted - 2014.02.20 20:32:00 - [82] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: Yes, I watched Judge's video. And it was articulated complaining. 1. He showed himself shooting at a dropship with a railgun, and failed. That proves it takes at least some practice. . Please read Posts properly before making mistakes like this. I clearly explained this. Also are you man enough to post again admitting you were mistaken? or will you just ignore this and keep posting never mentioning your error? Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
BAD FURRY SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 564	Posted - 2014.02.20 20:43:00 - [83] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: Yes, they take skill to fly and SP to build. However, if it wasn't for railguns; what would keep you guys in check? Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. ADSes are the most powerful thing in the game, so why complain? What is with certain players having a delusion that simply nothing should cause them a death? A players who wants to buff there own war-points and KDR ! with is most ADS players "i want to fly up in to the sky where it is safe and come down only to kill and never get shot down .... Im over 500,000 isk to fit and here to support the team but i say F that and run sole look at my kills ..... a corp is post to fund me in PC but i dont play PC its for noobs hehehe i play Pub games that take real skill and rail guns need to be nerfed becus i fly in a line and think by flying to the ceiling of the map and sitting there no one can hit me if someone do,s hit me i cry on the fourms and post videos on youtube and ask CCP to nerf stuff so i cant be killed ! And that's all fair !!!" now back to Real life in the game the only other way yo kill a ADS is a FG .... that and the FG needs to see the drop ship if you played FG be for you know what im saying . as fot the others fined out for your selfs ...and you can be killed by o most anyone on foot when your trying to hunt a ADS. so this is why we need to keep the range of the rage guns and just make the maps Bigger . PS: edit yes i know i said RAGE GUNS Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 780	Posted - 2014.02.20 20:58:00 - [84] - Quote Typical infantry assessment. There are a host of weapons that can shoot down a dropship. Even a plasma cannon, buy av thinks the only counter to a dropship should be a bs OHK. I'm waiting for av to figure out how to effectively destroy a dropship, but that would mean they have to actually think how dropships operate GASP
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 721	Posted - 2014.02.20 20:59:00 - [85] - Quote I don't know what is checking ADS if Railguns get nerfed. Forge Gunners are ok when there are 1 or 2, but 3+ experienced ADS Flyers will overwhelm them. Lol Swarms. Lol Plasma Cannons.
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro PAND3M0N1UM Lokun Listamenn 185	Posted - 2014.02.20 21:02:00 - [86] - Quote Skihids wrote: Do you know how to make a small fortune in dropships? Start with a large fortune.... Rofl! FAME Click Here for Recruitment
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro PAND3M0N1UM Lokun Listamenn 185	Posted - 2014.02.20 21:03:00 - [87] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: I don't know what is checking ADS if Railguns get nerfed. Forge Gunners are ok when there are 1 or 2, but 3+ experienced ADS Flyers will overwhelm them. Lol Swarms. Lol Plasma Cannons. What checks 3 good tankers? FAME Click Here for Recruitment
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 721	Posted - 2014.02.20 21:05:00 - [88] - Quote Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: I don't know what is checking ADS if Railguns get nerfed. Forge Gunners are ok when there are 1 or 2, but 3+ experienced ADS Flyers will overwhelm them. Lol Swarms. Lol Plasma Cannons. What checks 3 good tankers? Railguns.
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro PAND3M0N1UM Lokun Listamenn 185	Posted - 2014.02.20 21:09:00 - [89] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: I don't know what is checking ADS if Railguns get nerfed. Forge Gunners are ok when there are 1 or 2, but 3+ experienced ADS Flyers will overwhelm them. Lol Swarms. Lol Plasma Cannons. What checks 3 good tankers? Railguns. Really? Cause three tankers on most maps guarantees your team will not be able to field one. FAME Click Here for Recruitment
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 721	Posted - 2014.02.20 21:13:00 - [90] - Quote Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: I don't know what is checking ADS if Railguns get nerfed. Forge Gunners are ok when there are 1 or 2, but 3+ experienced ADS Flyers will overwhelm them. Lol Swarms. Lol Plasma Cannons. What checks 3 good tankers? Railguns. Really? Cause three tankers on most maps guarantees your team will not be able to field one. Depends on where in the redline you field it. Most people tend to call theirs at the start of the match too, since vehicle spam is common enough to justify it.

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7365	Posted - 2014.02.20 21:21:00 - [91] - Quote Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: I don't know what is checking ADS if Railguns get nerfed. Forge Gunners are ok when there are 1 or 2, but 3+ experienced ADS Flyers will overwhelm them. Lol Swarms. Lol Plasma Cannons. What checks 3 good tankers? Railguns. Really? Cause three tankers on most maps guarantees your team will not be able to field one. Untrue. Was subjected to tank spam a couple of days ago. Dropped my HAV, destroyed 6 enemy Rail HAV, assisted on 2 and confirmed a friendly HAV destroyed 4. We lost 1 HAV, the Maddy I was using to rush their hill pass out of the spawn on Manus. "Just know that though our enemies may only #YOLO, through God's grace we can #YOLF at his side." - Disciple of Kesha
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro PAND3M0N1UM Lokun Listamenn 186	Posted - 2014.02.20 21:27:00 - [92] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: I don't know what is checking ADS if Railguns get nerfed. Forge Gunners are ok when there are 1 or 2, but 3+ experienced ADS Flyers will overwhelm them. Lol Swarms. Lol Plasma Cannons. What checks 3 good tankers? Railguns. Really? Cause three tankers on most maps guarantees your team will not be able to field one. Untrue. Was subjected to tank spam a couple of days ago. Dropped my HAV, destroyed 6 enemy Rail HAV, assisted on 2 and confirmed a friendly HAV destroyed 4. We lost 1 HAV, the Maddy I was using to rush their hill pass out of the spawn on Manus. What about three of you? Tank stomping doesn't always happen. But three of any of the tankers I roll with pretty much rule the tabletop. It's just that most often tankerbros roll together and often don't run into other squads of tankerbros as often. It was more of a counter point that the number of vehicles wasn't the problem, it was the pilots inside that made the difference. FAME Click Here for Recruitment
Chuckles Brown 102	Posted - 2014.02.21 09:16:00 - [93] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Yes, I watched Judge's video. And it was articulated complaining. 1. He showed himself shooting at a dropship with a railgun, and failed. That proves it takes at least some practice. . Please read Posts properly before making mistakes like this. I clearly explained this. Also are you man enough to post again admitting you were mistaken? or will you just ignore this and keep posting never mentioning your error? Answer these the best you can. Yes, I know you're an exceptionally good pilot, but since ADSes take a chunk of SP to build, most people by the time they get into ADSes are above average flyers. 1. How many ADSes do you lose in a week? 2. How many kills and vehicles destroys do you get in a week? (keep in mind the average KDR in this game is 1.00) 3. When you do lose a ADS, what is the main culprit? 4. What player used method destroys your ADSes the most? I'm simply stating that ADSes are better than tanks (but take more skill to operate) because they truly have very few counters that are within a reasonable balance. If it takes 3 players to destroy a tank (as the WP reward would suggest), should it take 3 players to kill 1 ADS, or 1? FGs are the only Personal AV that can combat a ADS, and quite frankly its not easy taking down a DS w/ a FG. Yes, I know the rendering issue of FGers being pixels, but the fastest a FG can fire is 2.25s per shot, which good luck trying to time that shot to do contact, and even better luck doing 2-3x in a row. A Regular FG is the best way to go, as you can hold the charge and line up the shot. But that's 3s in between shots, plenty of time for you to activate a hardener, boosters, afterburner, etc. Sorry, but the practical in-game evidence confirms that ADSes rule in this game. They are out scoring HAVs because they have the advantage of firing down on their opponent. Without railguns, what would seriously stop you? FGs? You fly faster than they can run and have unlimited stamina to get away. They don't. The fact that the rails are usually in the redline is more about practicality. A rail has a very limited and slow arc they can actually shoot into, so they need to be as far back as the can so there arc angle widens. Why not take a week and bust out the FG or railgun and try duck hunting? If you land more than 10% of the shots you take, you're doing phenomenal. I'm a tank pilot, and I know where all the hot railgun spots are, and I keep them in mind when I'm tanking so as to not get popped. Maybe you should keep in mind where they are too? Because if that tanks comes out of their redline, you have every advantage over it, especially if you equipped XT-1s. The Official alt of 8213 Do you pub, brah?
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 255	Posted - 2014.02.21 10:45:00 - [94] - Quote All the vehicles are op or all the ways of blowing then up are up. The last two weeks I played I didn't see one lav av'd only time a lav blows is it gets hit by tank or theres no driver. occasional tank or dropship gets blown up, rest of the time they fly around in invincible mode. It's a joke that one av'er can't solo anymore. av is supposed to be more powerful than vehicles, that's why it's called anti vehicle. If swarm can't lock onto heavies in 1.8 they'll remain useless.
Ryme Intrinseca Fatal Absolution 763	Posted - 2014.02.21 11:52:00 - [95] - Quote Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Happy Violentime wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Forge's wreck them. My proficiency 5, two damage mod IAFG takes three shots to down even a mediocre DS. And you have to be a pretty terrible pilot to let a forge gunner hit you three times. Even then, the pilot will probably survive. Would be a VERY easy life without rail tanks. this +1 Ok, I also have the same fit. Any ADS is 2 shot most, 3 shot if its Snugglz fit. Even at 3 shots, the FG cracks the ADS hard enough to interrupt aim, and if you can time your shots while its banking a turn, you can force them into evasive action. A forger on a roof top can render an ADS virtually ineffective. Forcing it to engage only while hardeners are up, even with them still a 3 shot kill. Obviously I meant three hits to kill with the hardener up after the first shot. The pilot would have to be asleep not to do that.
Beld Errmon 0uter.Heaven 1386	Posted - 2014.02.21 13:26:00 - [96] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: 3. ADS vs a Railgun Tank? ADS can destroy a tank better than anything in the game. XT-1s are crazy powerful. If it wasn't for the redline, that tank would be a coffin for for a ADS to nail shut. you're off your head, my rail tank can 2 shot the average tank, add a few more shots if their hardeners are on, an ADS can't even scratch a militia tank if its hardeners on and needs about 2 clips and perfect aim to destroy an unhardened tank, how can you make statements like this and expect ppl to take you seriously? are you just hoping they are as ignorant about ADS as you clearly are?
Serimos Haeraven The Exemplars Top Men. 681	Posted - 2014.02.21 13:30:00 - [97] - Quote As a veteran DS pilot, I'm only going to state the obvious, OP doesn't know what he's talking about. Especially this: "what would seriously stop you? FGs? You fly faster than they can run and have unlimited stamina to get away. They don't". -Chuckles. When a Forge Gun shoots at a dropship, they don't need to run after the dropship to land the next shot dude, an FG has a range of around 200-300 meters, meaning a stationary FG has the opportunity to land 2-3 shots on an ADS (even with an afterburner) before the pilot gets out of its effective range, I know this for a fact because i have experienced it for over a year now, and it only takes 2-3 adv/proto FG shots to completely destroy my proto-module and max skill python. That is all. Tankers are being diagnosed with a new disease; Cancer of the Assault Dropship. Many of them don't survive.
Beld Errmon 0uter.Heaven 1386	Posted - 2014.02.21 13:43:00 - [98] - Quote The amount of stupid in this thread is just amazing, it comes down to 1 thing people hate being killed by anything they aren't using themselves, tanks, snipers and now ADS, simple fact is 90% of the ppl in this game just want a simple little shooter where anything that isn't a rifle is merely a gimmick that they can destroy with a flick of the wrist. Done with this topic, CCP will never swallow this tripe, unlike you lot they have actual data and i'm sure they can actually see that all but a few ADS pilots come even close to running isk positive, and pretty much all of them die horrible deaths to players that can barely figure out which dmg mod goes with which gun.
Rusty Shallows 1005	Posted - 2014.02.21 14:09:00 - [99] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: snip If you can't kill an Incubus with a proto forge then you're just bad. At the very least you will force that ship to disengage, and if you bring just a single friend with a forge or swarm in your railgun LAV you should have no trouble keeping him from doing anything very useful. snip To be honest using that phrasing sounds like damage control. Like you're trying to sweep something under the rug. I need to get some more games in to build on my own opinion of Nerfguns verses Derships. Since Forgeguns are fairly laughable now I tend to stick HMG unless absolutely forced to go anti-vehicle. Here, have some candy and a Like. :-) Forums > Game
Zirzo Valcyn Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 135	Posted - 2014.02.21 15:17:00 - [100] - Quote the only problem i have is being railed in my own redline all the way from their redline. this is just a product of poor map design. if i get railed in the battlefield it was my fault for poor awareness of the situationand not making use of cover which requires contour flying. also you dont launch DS if the minimap shows 6 redline tanks. it helps to have another role other than just a pilot and not one of those guys who only flies in fair weather using the excuse of 1 rail on the battlefield as a reason to sit the match out. u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll.

Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 6859	Posted - 2014.02.21 15:29:00 - [101] - Quote And what is checking the rail tanks? I spend a good chunk of my time in Dust flying the ADS and have no issues with rail tanks straight up. My issue with them mainly comes down to two points, Said rail tanks are almost always in the redline, so there is no way for me or anyone to properly counter them. Maps generally allow you to see the entire sky from the redline, there are no structures whatsoever blocking the view. So pretty much you can be getting hit by a rail tank no matter where you are. A good map that addresses this is Fractured Road - with the tall tower directly in the center along with some hills, you actually have places to take cover besides the flight ceiling. Places to avoid rail tanks. That's not to say you are invincible, the rail tanks can surely move to get into better position (but of course when was the last time you really saw a rail tank move ). Find a solution for the redline and start making maps that don't make shooting dropships like shooting fish in a barrel. Mail me in game if interested in learning about the Amarr Empire and serving them in Faction Warfare. Amarr Victor!
Zirzo Valcyn Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 135	Posted - 2014.02.21 15:31:00 - [102] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: I don't know what is checking ADS if Railguns get nerfed. Forge Gunners are ok when there are 1 or 2, but 3+ experienced ADS Flyers will overwhelm them. Lol Swarms. Lol Plasma Cannons. right. it's pointless, we gonna get owned by swarms again anyway.. the way CCP "balances" things swarms won't be tweaked they'll be back to OP easy mode like they were many times in the past. lets take away dropships current counter which lo and behold some pilots have adapted to in 1.7 not everyone is here crying about it but lets nerf the ability of rail vs dropship so someone can have a different weapon they're better at evading? so we have to relearn the system we've adapted to for the sake of what? learning to evade a new weapon that will be cried about in the end by high flying pilots. after that's "discussed" we go back to nerfing whatever it was that replaced the 1.7 rail only to buff the rail again in 1.9 because it never should have been nerfed in the first place in 1.8? does anyone not see the pattern here or do you all just have such blind faith in this hopeless quest for balance. u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll.
Chuckles Brown 109	Posted - 2014.02.21 18:37:00 - [103] - Quote So, is anyone going to answer the question? If there were no railguns what would stop ADSes? Funny how HAVs are deemed OP but ADSes are apparently complete death traps incapable of accomplishing much and get shot down just by looking at them... People in this thread are defending ADSes but in other threads talk about how to good tanks are. I guess everything is OP until it comes to whatever you use........ The Official alt of 8213 Do you pub, brah?
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 80	Posted - 2014.02.21 18:41:00 - [104] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: So, is anyone going to answer the question? If there were no railguns what would stop ADSes? Funny how HAVs are deemed OP but ADSes are apparently complete death traps incapable of accomplishing much and get shot down just by looking at them... People in this thread are defending ADSes but in other threads talk about how to good tanks are. I guess everything is OP until it comes to whatever you use........ Boopships? Though I actually did see an ADS get shot out of the air a few days ago by forge guns. Horrible pilot though, considering I did most of the damage with a militia forge gun and he never flew away. Still didn't get the blasted get, just some lame kill assist. Speaking of which... why do we get more points for killing a militia soma that costs less than 100K than we do for killing an ADS that costs half a million? Sometimes I miss never seeing tanks in a battle... then I remember the mystical flying soma, and I can't help but smile.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11313	Posted - 2014.02.21 18:43:00 - [105] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: So, is anyone going to answer the question? If there were no railguns what would stop ADSes? You're just trying to create a pointless argument because no one wants railguns removed, we want a fair fight on both ends. Whine whine whine, that's all your thread is Get gud Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Chuckles Brown 110	Posted - 2014.02.21 18:53:00 - [106] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: So, is anyone going to answer the question? If there were no railguns what would stop ADSes? You're just trying to create a pointless argument because no one wants railguns removed, we want a fair fight on both ends. Whine whine whine, that's all your thread is Get gud Wow. Still didn't answer the question. Now run along and talk about how unbalanced tanks are to AV in other threads. Hypocrisy much? The Official alt of 8213 Do you pub, brah?
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11314	Posted - 2014.02.21 19:00:00 - [107] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: So, is anyone going to answer the question? If there were no railguns what would stop ADSes? You're just trying to create a pointless argument because no one wants railguns removed, we want a fair fight on both ends. Whine whine whine, that's all your thread is Get gud Wow. Still didn't answer the question. Now run along and talk about how unbalanced tanks are to AV in other threads. Hypocrisy much? You literally have no idea what you're talking about. Please, carry on, this is better than pay per view. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 446	Posted - 2014.02.21 19:31:00 - [108] - Quote Serimos Haeraven wrote: As a veteran DS pilot, I'm only going to state the obvious, OP doesn't know what he's talking about. Especially this: "what would seriously stop you? FGs? You fly faster than they can run and have unlimited stamina to get away. They don't". -Chuckles. When a Forge Gun shoots at a dropship, they don't need to run after the dropship to land the next shot dude, an FG has a range of around 200-300 meters, meaning a stationary FG has the opportunity to land 2-3 shots on an ADS (even with an afterburner) before the pilot gets out of its effective range, I know this for a fact because i have experienced it for over a year now, and it only takes 2-3 adv/proto FG shots to completely destroy my proto-module and max skill python. See, here's the real problem with your reasoning in this entire post Chuckles: "Why not take a week and bust out the FG or railgun and try duck hunting? If you land more than 10% of the shots you take, you're doing phenomenal. I'm a tank pilot" You're a tank pilot! Surely this was already obvious, but the statement you made about landing "10%" of the shots you take being good is complete bull ****. Every single time i come up against a forge gun, he at least manages to hit me 1-2 times before i either get away, get shot down, or put 4 missiles into the forge gunner while in orbit around him (which is rare). Point being, you're not a DS pilot, or a forge gunner, so the fact you try to assert knowledge about how forge guns and dropships interact is without merit. Dropships can speak easily about this topic because we're in these kinds of situations literally every single battle we enter, and I'd put that percentage of hits they land around 60-70%, not 10. If I'm landing 60% of FG shots on ADS my team is dead and I should be corp kicked. It's more like 3/4. Neighborhood Bully prof 5 "Gimme yo lunch money"
ROCKO THE HELLHOUND Ultramarine Corp 7	Posted - 2014.02.21 19:38:00 - [109] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: Yes, they take skill to fly and SP to build. However, if it wasn't for railguns; what would keep you guys in check? Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. ADSes are the most powerful thing in the game, so why complain? What is with certain players having a delusion that simply nothing should cause them a death? lol, Dude - 80GJ Particle Cannon with damage mods 2-Shots +500 000 ISK ADS's - that's practically an Insta-Kill since the ADS's often enough couldn't even react in movement between the two hits due to the collision-bounce effect from hit 1 - even if the pilots reaction ability is good enough for a reaction in that time of 1.2 sec. minus ca. 0.5 sec. of average lag between the two hits. and you dare to write a post like that about the shame of Railguns being retardedly broken OP - reducing Dust to a game ATM where are no Vehicles anymore but just Railgun-Insta-I-Win-Button Fodder instead - shame on you!
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 6864	Posted - 2014.02.21 19:42:00 - [110] - Quote Serimos Haeraven wrote: See, here's the real problem with your reasoning in this entire post Chuckles: "Why not take a week and bust out the FG or railgun and try duck hunting? If you land more than 10% of the shots you take, you're doing phenomenal. I'm a tank pilot" You're a tank pilot! I've always found the phrase "tank pilot" or "HAV pilot" to be hilarious. Tankers want to feel more special I guess You are not pilots, you are driver or operators, take your pick P.S. You can still use pilot suits of course Mail me in game if interested in learning about the Amarr Empire and serving them in Faction Warfare. Amarr Victor!

Chuckles Brown 110	Posted - 2014.02.21 20:51:00 - [111] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Serimos Haeraven wrote: See, here's the real problem with your reasoning in this entire post Chuckles: "Why not take a week and bust out the FG or railgun and try duck hunting? If you land more than 10% of the shots you take, you're doing phenomenal. I'm a tank pilot" You're a tank pilot! I've always found the phrase "tank pilot" or "HAV pilot" to be hilarious. Tankers want to feel more special I guess You are not pilots, you are driver or operators, take your pick P.S. You can still use pilot suits of course Pilot suit? You're living in the past maaaaaaan... PDSes are never getting into this game. The Official alt of 8213 Do you pub, brah?
Chuckles Brown 112	Posted - 2014.02.22 08:10:00 - [112] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: So, is anyone going to answer the question? If there were no railguns what would stop ADSes? You're just trying to create a pointless argument because no one wants railguns removed, we want a fair fight on both ends. Whine whine whine, that's all your thread is Get gud Wow. Still didn't answer the question. Now run along and talk about how unbalanced tanks are to AV in other threads. Hypocrisy much? You literally have no idea what you're talking about. Please, carry on, this is better than pay per view. I find it funny, that you spout word-for-word the same things crazies like spkrforthedead says but apply it to your ADS. Does one take more skill than the other, of course. But just because it takes more skill to learn doesn't mean it should be grossly advantageous. The Official alt of 8213 Do you pub, brah?
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 472	Posted - 2014.02.22 08:28:00 - [113] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: So, is anyone going to answer the question? If there were no railguns what would stop ADSes? You're just trying to create a pointless argument because no one wants railguns removed, we want a fair fight on both ends. Whine whine whine, that's all your thread is Get gud Wow. Still didn't answer the question. Now run along and talk about how unbalanced tanks are to AV in other threads. Hypocrisy much? You literally have no idea what you're talking about. Please, carry on, this is better than pay per view. I find it funny, that you spout word-for-word the same things crazies like spkrforthedead says but apply it to your ADS. Does one take more skill than the other, of course. But just because it takes more skill to learn doesn't mean it should be grossly advantageous. Anyone remember that 1 game that nerfed something because it was good when people had too much skill? 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
Funkmaster Whale 0uter.Heaven 1420	Posted - 2014.02.22 08:42:00 - [114] - Quote FG vs ADS is fine. FG vs Tank is *****. You like have* to be camping a tower with nanohives to even consider killing any competent tanker with an FG. Let me play you the song of my people!
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1868	Posted - 2014.02.22 08:52:00 - [115] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: Yes, they take skill to fly and SP to build. However, if it wasn't for railguns; what would keep you guys in check? Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. ADSes are the most powerful thing in the game, so why complain? What is with certain players having a delusion that simply nothing should cause them a death? Lol I shoot them while moving. I also shoot them down with a forge gun. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Chuckles Brown 114	Posted - 2014.02.22 11:03:00 - [116] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Yes, they take skill to fly and SP to build. However, if it wasn't for railguns; what would keep you guys in check? Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. ADSes are the most powerful thing in the game, so why complain? What is with certain players having a delusion that simply nothing should cause them a death? Lol I shoot them while moving. I also shoot them down with a forge gun. yeah yeah yeah... you say you do a lot of things The Official alt of 8213 Do you pub, brah?
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 473	Posted - 2014.02.22 11:06:00 - [117] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Yes, they take skill to fly and SP to build. However, if it wasn't for railguns; what would keep you guys in check? Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. ADSes are the most powerful thing in the game, so why complain? What is with certain players having a delusion that simply nothing should cause them a death? Lol I shoot them while moving. I also shoot them down with a forge gun. yeah yeah yeah... you say you do a lot of things Its easy.... 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
Serimos Haeraven The Exemplars Top Men. 683	Posted - 2014.02.23 00:33:00 - [118] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: So, is anyone going to answer the question? If there were no railguns what would stop ADSes? Funny how HAVs are deemed OP but ADSes are apparently complete death traps incapable of accomplishing much and get shot down just by looking at them... People in this thread are defending ADSes but in other threads talk about how to good tanks are. I guess everything is OP until it comes to whatever you use........ I have already answered this, but you never seemed to acknowledge what I had to say, so here it is again: As a veteran DS pilot, I'm only going to state the obvious, OP doesn't know what he's talking about. Especially this: "what would seriously stop you? FGs? You fly faster than they can run and have unlimited stamina to get away. They don't". -Chuckles. When a Forge Gun shoots at a dropship, they don't need to run after the dropship to land the next shot dude, an FG has a range of around 200-300 meters, meaning a stationary FG has the opportunity to land 2-3 shots on an ADS (even with an afterburner) before the pilot gets out of its effective range, I know this for a fact because i have experienced it for over a year now, and it only takes 2-3 adv/proto FG shots to completely destroy my proto-module and max skill python. See, here's the real problem with your reasoning in this entire post Chuckles: "Why not take a week and bust out the FG or railgun and try duck hunting? If you land more than 10% of the shots you take, you're doing phenomenal. I'm a tank pilot" You're a tank pilot! Surely this was already obvious, but the statement you made about landing "10%" of the shots you take being good is complete bull ****. Every single time i come up against a forge gun, he at least manages to hit me 1-2 times before i either get away, get shot down, or put 4 missiles into the forge gunner while in orbit around him (which is rare). Point being, you're not a DS pilot, or a forge gunner, so the fact you try to assert knowledge about how forge guns and dropships interact is without merit. Dropships can speak easily about this topic because we're in these kinds of situations literally every single battle we enter, and I'd put that percentage of hits they land around 60-70%, not 10. Tankers are being diagnosed with a new disease; Cancer of the Assault Dropship. Many of them don't survive.
Rinzler XVIII Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 51	Posted - 2014.02.23 02:48:00 - [119] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Yes, I watched Judge's video. And it was articulated complaining. 1. He showed himself shooting at a dropship with a railgun, and failed. That proves it takes at least some practice. . Please read Posts properly before making mistakes like this. I clearly explained this. Also are you man enough to post again admitting you were mistaken? or will you just ignore this and keep posting never mentioning your error? Personally I don't like the flight ceiling mechanic either, it's no different to the redline .. it's an Area DS pilots can retreat to in relative safety Nearly all Infantry AV is UP atm .. PLC/SL/AV grenades are all UP and a dropship can easily avoid all of them with minimal effort .. honestly I do agree with your points about the redline railgun tanks but without them ADS would be untouchable due to the weakness of 3/4 of AV in the game currently It takes multiple people using Proto FG to be able to burst damage an ADS otherwise its a quick afterburner up to the flight ceiling and you become immune to any infantry AV in the game Remove the redline and remove the flight ceiling , sure dropships may not be able to kill at the flight ceiling like Railgun tanks can in the redline but you can get from being actively engaged in a battle to the flight ceiling in a few seconds .. 1 hit from a FG .. back to the safety of the flight ceiling .. Dropships namely ADS have speed and maneuverability .. why do they need a safe zone as well ? If it requires teamwork from AV to take out a ADS then it should take teamwork from an ADS to deal with AV attacking it not .. fly up as far into the sky as I can , you failed to deal with this in your video .. you want tanks to be more involved in battles and forced out of the redline and I agree with that .. but I also want dropships to be forced away from the flight ceiling and into the battle as well
T8R Raid BIG BAD W0LVES 161	Posted - 2014.02.23 02:51:00 - [120] - Quote Dude, anything except swarms and nades can wreck dropships. Which strangely enough kinda defeats the purpose of having a lock on weapon. Rail guns should NOT be able to 1-2 shot ANY ADS. 3 shot minimum. Unchecked dishonesty can promote the perception that one must cheat to remain competitive.

Chuckles Brown 127	Posted - 2014.02.23 02:52:00 - [121] - Quote T8R Raid wrote: Dude, anything except swarms and nades can wreck dropships. Which strangely enough kinda defeats the purpose of having a lock on weapon. Rail guns should NOT be able to 1-2 shot ANY ADS. 3 shot minimum. Then you either need to beef up ADSes to tank HP levels, or nerf the railgun to the point where tanks would run amuck in this game even more so. The Official alt of 8213 Do you pub, brah?
Rinzler XVIII Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 51	Posted - 2014.02.23 02:56:00 - [122] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Yes, I watched Judge's video. And it was articulated complaining. 1. He showed himself shooting at a dropship with a railgun, and failed. That proves it takes at least some practice. . Please read Posts properly before making mistakes like this. I clearly explained this. Also are you man enough to post again admitting you were mistaken? or will you just ignore this and keep posting never mentioning your error? I forgot to mention this video of yours https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3au9H-NcgSw You basically say the QQ about SL changes were unfounded and they would be good .. lo and behold SL are absolutely garbage and all the QQ was completely justified Are you man enough to admit that you were wrong about SL ?
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11399	Posted - 2014.02.23 02:58:00 - [123] - Quote Rinzler XVIII wrote: sure dropships may not be able to kill at the flight ceiling like Railgun tanks can in the redline but you can get from being actively engaged in a battle to the flight ceiling in a few seconds .. 1 hit from a FG .. back to the safety of the flight ceiling .. Railguns can still hit you at the flight ceiling, and once you're en route to the flight ceiling, you've effectively been removed from the match. You can't even provide intel because nothing renders at that distance. Also, believe it or not, every so often you can get hit by the odd RDV that spawns towards the flight ceiling. While equally rare, it's also easier to get hit by stray null cannon missiles when you're floating around that high since it's hard to tell where exactly they're coming from depending on the angle of your camera. The last two are certainly uncommon, but definitely not unheard of. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 1779	Posted - 2014.02.23 03:19:00 - [124] - Quote Rails wreck vehicles in general, and the best video showcasing how this could be fixed is Judge Rhadamathus's vid on the problem. Looking for a Interesting Character Name? Why Not Zoidberg?
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro PAND3M0N1UM Lokun Listamenn 200	Posted - 2014.02.23 04:40:00 - [125] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Rinzler XVIII wrote: sure dropships may not be able to kill at the flight ceiling like Railgun tanks can in the redline but you can get from being actively engaged in a battle to the flight ceiling in a few seconds .. 1 hit from a FG .. back to the safety of the flight ceiling .. Railguns can still hit you at the flight ceiling, and once you're en route to the flight ceiling, you've effectively been removed from the match. You can't even provide intel because nothing renders at that distance. Also, believe it or not, every so often you can get hit by the odd RDV that spawns towards the flight ceiling. While equally rare, it's also easier to get hit by stray null cannon missiles when you're floating around that high since it's hard to tell where exactly they're coming from depending on the angle of your camera. The last two are certainly uncommon, but definitely not unheard of. Dropships are pretty easy to take out if you have one other AV guy with you, and it's not impossible to take them out solo with a forge gun depending on the circumstance / pilot. While swarms definitely need a buff, they tend to kill dropships just from the knockback. If you aren't a pilot then you really don't understand just how much a random swarm missile can **** in your cereal. Agreed, in fact, lately I have been having issues with swarm and forge combo. It is a very effective combo. FAME Click for Vehicle Support Click for Recruitment
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11403	Posted - 2014.02.23 05:02:00 - [126] - Quote Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Rinzler XVIII wrote: sure dropships may not be able to kill at the flight ceiling like Railgun tanks can in the redline but you can get from being actively engaged in a battle to the flight ceiling in a few seconds .. 1 hit from a FG .. back to the safety of the flight ceiling .. Railguns can still hit you at the flight ceiling, and once you're en route to the flight ceiling, you've effectively been removed from the match. You can't even provide intel because nothing renders at that distance. Also, believe it or not, every so often you can get hit by the odd RDV that spawns towards the flight ceiling. While equally rare, it's also easier to get hit by stray null cannon missiles when you're floating around that high since it's hard to tell where exactly they're coming from depending on the angle of your camera. The last two are certainly uncommon, but definitely not unheard of. Dropships are pretty easy to take out if you have one other AV guy with you, and it's not impossible to take them out solo with a forge gun depending on the circumstance / pilot. While swarms definitely need a buff, they tend to kill dropships just from the knockback. If you aren't a pilot then you really don't understand just how much a random swarm missile can **** in your cereal. Agreed, in fact, lately I have been having issues with swarm and forge combo. It is a very effective combo. That's where the Breach forge gun shines. Hold the charge, wait till the missiles are about halfway there, then hit the dropship. If it's an Incubus you'll strip its shields and do a descent chunk of damage to armor, then the missiles all hit dealing their bonus damage. If it's a Python, you'll at least weaken its shields by a good bit, allowing the swarms to start making a difference. If it's not an assault dropship, then you shouldn't need two people to kill it, so it doesn't really matter what you do. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
T8R Raid BIG BAD W0LVES 164	Posted - 2014.02.23 05:04:00 - [127] - Quote Darken-Soul wrote: Jackof All-Trades wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Shooting a ADS with a rail does take some small skill. I'm going to have to stop you there. My Incubus costs 375K ISK. A redline railgunner can use a fit ~70K ISK and three shot me before my Incubus can even turn properly. This is why railguns are unbalanced. Not the fact they can kill - but the kill they give is cheap and you feel cheated. I got a boundless hmg fit that costs 175k. There isn't a damn thing I can do to hurt your dropship but you can 3shot me two seconds after I spawn. 2 shot actually Unchecked dishonesty can promote the perception that one must cheat to remain competitive.
T8R Raid BIG BAD W0LVES 164	Posted - 2014.02.23 05:10:00 - [128] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: T8R Raid wrote: Dude, anything except swarms and nades can wreck dropships. Which strangely enough kinda defeats the purpose of having a lock on weapon. Rail guns should NOT be able to 1-2 shot ANY ADS. 3 shot minimum. Then you either need to beef up ADSes to tank HP levels, or nerf the railgun to the point where tanks would run amuck in this game even more so. You sir, are obviously an assaulter. Vehicles are SUPPOSED to wreck you. That's when people decide to blow up a dropship with 60k isk tanks. Either land/recall or die is the options. I guess you can hide in the ceiling but thats flippin boring. Particle Cannons aren't my issue. The militia grade railguns should require all 9 shots to take out a real sp'd out pilot. Not 3 shot through stacked hardeners in 2 seconds. Unchecked dishonesty can promote the perception that one must cheat to remain competitive.
Chuckles Brown 127	Posted - 2014.02.23 05:19:00 - [129] - Quote Considering 25% of the playersbase recycles every week on this game, what are noobs supposed to do? You don't have the SP to spec into FGs, so what other options are there? Tanks are the only acceptable AV in this game that everyone can use. The Official alt of 8213 Do you pub, brah?
RemingtonBeaver Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 150	Posted - 2014.02.23 05:26:00 - [130] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: Considering 25% of the playersbase recycles every week on this game, what are noobs supposed to do? You don't have the SP to spec into FGs, so what other options are there? Tanks are the only acceptable AV in this game that everyone can use. Nope. Do you have fun red line rail tanking? Is it fun? I can't see it being fun. I picture red line rail tankers sitting in their tanks talking to themselves like Rain Man. "One tank on Tuesday, definitely, definitely Tuesday. Dropship, dropship, Tuesday, definitely, definitely, Tuesday." Rocking back and forth while their mothers drink themselves into comas in the background. Rail tanks are cancer. We can pickle that.

DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11407	Posted - 2014.02.23 05:26:00 - [131] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: Considering 25% of the playersbase recycles every week on this game, what are noobs supposed to do? You don't have the SP to spec into FGs, so what other options are there? Tanks are the only acceptable AV in this game that everyone can use. Anyone can pick up a MLT forge gun and MLT heavy along with a railgun LAV They certainly won't do much good on their own, but if they have a couple of friends with them doing similar, they can put the heat on a dropship as well. If you just give every noob an I win button against fully spec'd vehicles, then what exactly is the point of fully specing into vehicles, or even AV for that matter? Swarms need a buff and we need some more AV options for sure, but rewarding talentless players for running glass cannon fits in the safety of their redline doesn't do anything for the health of the game. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Martyr Saboteur Amarrtyrs 148	Posted - 2014.02.23 05:37:00 - [132] - Quote Assault Dropships are borderline OP. If they didn't cost so much, they would be the most OP thing in the game, even more so than HAVs. Because they can fly to the top of the map in <10 seconds, making them completely invincible. I can understand their complaints about redline railguns, but they really shouldn't complain about the ones outside of the redline, those ones are their natural predator, and rightfully so. Honestly, I fear that CCP will get rid of redline rails and make ADSs cheaper at the same time... They would be unstoppable. Totally not Fizzer94's forum alt. Definitely just a random dude.
Chuckles Brown 129	Posted - 2014.02.23 10:01:00 - [133] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Considering 25% of the playersbase recycles every week on this game, what are noobs supposed to do? You don't have the SP to spec into FGs, so what other options are there? Tanks are the only acceptable AV in this game that everyone can use. Anyone can pick up a MLT forge gun and MLT heavy along with a railgun LAV They certainly won't do much good on their own, but if they have a couple of friends with them doing similar, they can put the heat on a dropship as well. If you just give every noob an I win button against fully spec'd vehicles, then what exactly is the point of fully specing into vehicles, or even AV for that matter? Swarms need a buff and we need some more AV options for sure, but rewarding talentless players for running glass cannon fits in the safety of their redline doesn't do anything for the health of the game. I said AV, not feather throwers. If 6 people need to use their MLT issued AV to combat 1 ADS, that's OP to heck. And to be honest, I don't think 6 people running MLT AV could destroy an ADS; maybe just make it go away for a minute. Speaking from a tanks stand point, I don't even use hardeners against AV. Most of my tanks don't even have Hardeners equipped, as AV is that useless. The only thing that's stopping me is a skilled Particle Cannon user with double mods. And my tank is far easier to hit with AV than an ADS. The Official alt of 8213 Do you pub, brah?
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 811	Posted - 2014.02.23 10:28:00 - [134] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Chuckles Brown wrote: Considering 25% of the playersbase recycles every week on this game, what are noobs supposed to do? You don't have the SP to spec into FGs, so what other options are there? Tanks are the only acceptable AV in this game that everyone can use. Anyone can pick up a MLT forge gun and MLT heavy along with a railgun LAV They certainly won't do much good on their own, but if they have a couple of friends with them doing similar, they can put the heat on a dropship as well. If you just give every noob an I win button against fully spec'd vehicles, then what exactly is the point of fully specing into vehicles, or even AV for that matter? Swarms need a buff and we need some more AV options for sure, but rewarding talentless players for running glass cannon fits in the safety of their redline doesn't do anything for the health of the game. I said AV, not feather throwers. If 6 people need to use their MLT issued AV to combat 1 ADS, that's OP to heck. And to be honest, I don't think 6 people running MLT AV could destroy an ADS; maybe just make it go away for a minute. Now, if you were a new player, would you stick around for that? Speaking from a tanks stand point, I don't even use hardeners against AV. Most of my tanks don't even have Hardeners equipped, as AV is that useless. The only thing that's stopping me is a skilled Particle Cannon user with double mods. And my tank is far easier to hit with AV than an ADS. Why would that be op? 6 guys using mlt swarms against a proto fit dropship, or 3 guys using adv or 2 guys using proto. Seems balanced to me. I saw an assault dropship get shot down my a mlt swarm today, it can happen, and would happen a lot more if av players got their thumbs out of their asses and figured out when a dropship is vulnerable. Tanks are incredibly op, and yes right now the only counter to well fit tanks are glass cannon tanks and skilled forge gunners. We aren't talking about tanks here, dropships aren't tanked nearly as much as a tank. They are quite fragile and get knocked about really easily. I like how you talk about tanks being incredibly easy, then say that the only thing that can counter it is a "skilled" partical rail. What skill is that? They can hold down the R1 button? If I get hit by a forge or rail I have 3 seconds or less to activate my mods whilst simultaneously dodging the kill the shot. There is more skill in that than your average rail tanker has period. Because like you said, the only mods they really have to use is damage mods. If I require skill to survive then av should require skill to shoot me down.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1539	Posted - 2014.02.23 11:57:00 - [135] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: If 6 people need to use their MLT issued AV to combat 1 ADS, that's OP to heck. You need to look at actual numbers and evidence not on anecdotal reports of game issues. Models and game recordings in no way support your statement. This is a model of damage in against a well fitted Incubus with max skills, some plate a hardener running and a scanner or AB fitted. In this model the hardener is running for the entire engagement. Its a lot to take in but focus on the little chart on the bottom. The blue bar is the remaining health of the dropship after each hit with a MILITIA swarm. The red bar is the remaining health of the militia suited (some mil plate and exts fitted) swarm player. As you see After the ADS hits Mr militia swarm once, he is still alive. It take two hits to kill him. Assume the ADS does not see him, or there are two swarmers, it does not matter. As you see Hit 5 will knock an ADS to 32% health. That's 5 hits with a free weapon to almost kill a top level ADS. Two swarm players with the weakest weapon can kill it in 5 hits. Look up to row 27. Five proto volleys will kill it. Now with boosters the ADS can last longer but that's maxing a fit. The model also allows two regen ticks between hits, so for the ADS this is a strong fit. Some AV adjustment is needed. The tank models are ridiculous as are the Pythons when double hardened (against swarms). But we need to be careful of with the 20% amour bonus and fitting restrictions we break Gallente ships, and not just the ADS. The biggest issue seems (from models and in game footage) to be the hardeners some fits allow, although there is more to it than that. Straight out buffs to swarms will break balance. A more deft touch is needed. NB : this model uses a defence bias. THis means it calculates damage reduction based on the hit before damage bonus has been added. If effect this means it will show a slight increase in damage done by weapons over the reverse model. This model however does closely match in game recorded data. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Quirky CatchPhrase Blacksand Voodoo 11	Posted - 2014.02.23 12:53:00 - [136] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Forge's wreck them. My proficiency 5, two damage mod IAFG takes three shots to down even a mediocre DS. And you have to be a pretty terrible pilot to let a forge gunner hit you three times. Even then, the pilot will probably survive. Would be a VERY easy life without rail tanks. But once you start shooting at one you basically render it impotent because it has to leave the area or DIAF, you should try flying a dropship around watch how many ppl suddenly decide to take up duck shooting, its rarely ever 1 person trying to down you. One forge is more of an annoyance than a mortal threat for a well built and piloted DS. And if you're tying up two or three opposition players you're doing a great job for the team, even if you're spending most of your time near the flight ceiling. Also there's basically no danger to you when you're recovering at a high altitude, whereas the FGers are sitting ducks for any red that comes their way. Not saying DSes are OP, just that, as Chuckles said, the large rail is needed as a hard counter. its a pity that "tying up two or three opposition players you're doing a great job for the team," is not a rewarding career choice then isnt it? but, you know what is a worse gaming experience than flying a derpship? ....currently: nothing... flight mechanics limit accuracy AV is balanced around HAV's with twice the base HP of a DS nerfed light turrets have no range new tacnet intel makes flying a python the lesser choice if going anti-infantry (hello scanner to fix tacnet/rendering issues) using rail or blaster as main turret for an ADS on anything other than a HAV is painful yet Python get the missile bonuses. so you fly a missile incubus with a scanner in the highs an armor mods in the lows which is great because the armor is stronger anyways, and it slows you down so it effectively counter balances the horrible handling, in turn making you easier to hit with rails and FG.... \o/'yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaeeeeeeeeeeeeeyyyyyy..... but dont worry CCP drop ship pilots learnt long ago that we are the unloved bastard child of a previous marriage, that embarrassing reminder of ill thought out past decisions. we'll stand in HAV's shadow and even let LLAV get the spot light, its okay, we understand... we dont need you to love us.... just maybe... could you.. hate us a little less.... ...............................
Quirky CatchPhrase Blacksand Voodoo 11	Posted - 2014.02.23 13:00:00 - [137] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Rinzler XVIII wrote: sure dropships may not be able to kill at the flight ceiling like Railgun tanks can in the redline but you can get from being actively engaged in a battle to the flight ceiling in a few seconds .. 1 hit from a FG .. back to the safety of the flight ceiling .. Railguns can still hit you at the flight ceiling, and once you're en route to the flight ceiling, you've effectively been removed from the match. You can't even provide intel because nothing renders at that distance. Also, believe it or not, every so often you can get hit by the odd RDV that spawns towards the flight ceiling. While equally rare, it's also easier to get hit by stray null cannon missiles when you're floating around that high since it's hard to tell where exactly they're coming from depending on the angle of your camera. The last two are certainly uncommon, but definitely not unheard of. Dropships are pretty easy to take out if you have one other AV guy with you, and it's not impossible to take them out solo with a forge gun depending on the circumstance / pilot. While swarms definitely need a buff, they tend to kill dropships just from the knockback. If you aren't a pilot then you really don't understand just how much a random swarm missile can **** in your cereal. also the fast climb is a fitting luxury.... kinda like arguing that a caldari medium suit should be happy getting taken to armour cause if they fit a kincat they wont need to fit an armor repper.....


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