Those are some kind words. And from a skilled pilot such as yourself I really do appreciate them. You nailed it on what pilots want. Well said.

I'm fine with removing redlines, but don't nerf the only real counter for the Dropship.

CEO Pyrex agrees with Judge. While utterly dominating in a Domination (Assault Dropship), he lamented on the level of risk a prototype railtaink represents. He cited all of the rigorous evidence, because you guys think tanks should have less range and be prevented from pointing up... silly. I'm fine with removing redlines, but don't nerf the only real counter for the Dropship.

You didn't watch the video did you. OR look at this chart.

So its not okay for rail tanks to snipe across a map from close to the redline, but okay when they can sit so deep in the redline dropships have to recall or be shot down? Do you honestly know anything about dropships? At all? What is your experience with a dropship?

They can keep their ridiculous damage and charge time because they are the "only" counter to other tanks, they shouldn't be able to have that kind of power from the safe zone, its balance bro, just think about. Also on every railtank thread there is a list of other counters besides a railgun.

I think the redline should be an energy shield that blocks weapons fire. I think there should be more ways to kill the OP assault dropships. I understand that they are really fun and add some dynamic tactics to the otherwise two dimensional gunplay, but I really hate seeing those pilots get kill after kill with 0 deaths. I hate seeing them shoot up out of range of ALL weapons when there's a threat detected.

You really are a moron, kill after kill with zero deaths? try flying one and tell me how you feel about losing 450+ k ISK because a 70k tank 2 shots you, or a 27k viper runs into you or though rarely these days an RDV decides to teleport into existence right in front of you.

Redline rail tanks aren't the only counter, a good forge gunner can take a dropship down, 2 good forge gunners can wtfbbq one before he even has a chance to change direction, add in those forge gunners having squad mates that look after them (rep hives ect) and they are an unassailable hard counter to the lol OP dropship.

Oh, a painful insult! Most of my tanks cost 450k and I blow them up all the time, so I understand the risk (isk) vs reward game.

Assuming you come out of the redline and risk anything. Also tanks don't die as quickly as dropships and are much better tanked when av tries to take them out. You must be fitting some good mods on a tank to get it to 450k that is just 100k or so more expensive than an assault dropships chassis.

CEO Pyrex agrees with Judge. While utterly dominating in a Domination (Assault Dropship), he lamented on the level of risk a prototype railtaink represents. He cited all of the rigorous evidence, because you guys think tanks should have less range and be prevented from pointing up... silly. I'm fine with removing redlines, but don't nerf the only real counter for the Dropship.

All credits to JudgeRhadamanthus for the video.
Send any likes over to him at : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1806881#post1806881

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHy6CXWk3K4

A FANTASTIC look at the problem with Redline Rails in their current state of the game. Check it out.

... and i can't believe he doesn't have any subscribers...

... and i can't believe he doesn't have any subscribers...

No you are wrong, so wrong, in fact you are so far from being right that you had a make a two day trip to get to this conclusion (reasonably priced motel stop over - pool was crap - AC a little disappointing)

Red line railgun tanks are VERY broken indeed, why should you have all the power and almost no risk at all. that to me smacks of 'im alright Jack' and protectionism.

Frankly CCP are not showing much leadership or collaboration on this topic either, almost 3 months of 1.7 with very little sight of 1.8 coming except (before fanfest maybe) that means there is a potential 6 months between patches and that to me says this game is no longer important or valued by CCP and is being kept alive by a skeleton crew to keep the 1.6m GBP PA it perhaps makes going.

CCP need to wake up and realize they have a rough diamond here that with the right level of effort would make good money, what we see instead is a focus on a tech demo game which requires the user to shell out -ú200 for a pair of goggles that are already technically obsolete, a WOD franchise that apparently is now going to be a bit like DAYZ (way to bandwagon onto a game that itself is already dead) and a cash cow that is about to be totally overtaken by Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous, both games with incredible pedigrees already.

Seriously CCP are you asleep at the wheel?

Thank you for the excellent reply. I loled at my trip to wrong-land. I'm right that you agree with Judge. I'm also right for implying that you have a history of endorsing OP tactics. You don't care that I agreed with the redline argument. I want CCP to remove the redlines and maybe just add a few more spawnpoints to prevent overcamping if they can't come up with a good solution (energy shield). You just like going 20/0 every match in an Assault Dropship, and you think it would be even better if you didn't have to worry about railguns, and the point about the broken redline is a convenient smokescreen.

Foundation Seldon. LOL. These are the moments of hilarious deflections and unsubstantiated fluff. Yes, Judge has some specific points about the role of the dropship, emphasizing teamplay tactics (fulfilled by any dropship), and glosses over the infantry squad shattering impact of the Assault Dropship. To support the team play role, I would suggest extra HP when weapons are absent, but an offensive weapons platform needs to be vulnerable, or people will simply quit at higher rates. You can make reasonable points about dropships not having adequate cover on some maps, and that's largely a map design problem. You can't simply expect all maps be built to accommodate dropship tactics. I would personally like to see more infantry-only maps (all underground or starship interior). Other maps, like nearly all of them, were built for vehicle combat, and it is unrealistic for me to expect infantry-only engagements in open fields, likewise, it's unreasonable for you to think open skies should be ideal for your dropships. Some maps are more dangerous than others, and maybe we'll see more valleys/mountains/cityscapes provide cover for assault Dropships. I'm not a huge fan of the sniper role, AV or anti-infantry, but many years of PvP shooter history (industry wide), in every game, all have preserved the ominous threat elements that a sniper brings into the experience. Yes, they're annoying, but no, you will not be allowed to run amok.

The whole video was the unsubstantiated fluff

Ad-hominem? I don't think that applies when the claim is evidence based. It's more like a Dust Meme.

Railguns do more damage, but HP and resistance values were modified so the dropship is tougher than ever. It was easier to one-shot a dropship pre 1.7, and while it may be true that railguns do more damage, the fact that dropships are more survivable now makes the statement about damage a misdirection. The whole video was the unsubstantiated fluff (with some excellent examples of team support - btw Judge, thanks for the videos). It had nice graphs, sure, but you could have just said. "I don't like how tanks are able to shoot up in the air."

I think railguns need to have their Alpha damage nerfed, if they want to maintain the range. It just doesn't make sense that they have awesome damage AND range. They easily outperform the other turret variants with the advent of the ultra high resistance hardeners. The only thing that can break such high resistances, is equally high alpha damage.

While it won't fix the problem with redline rails, as that IS a terrain issue(and not something easy to fix), it will help to lessen the major impact railguns now play on the field. Dropships do have extreme mobility, but that feels wasted when you are easily shot down by something you can't even affect.

Less damage means more time for a DS pilot to react, whether that be flippin on hardeners, evasive maneuvers, or breaking LOS. Currently, I feel that is the biggest issue facing dropships pilots AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN. (Yes, I know redline setup is an issue, still, I easily drop dropships out of the sky, and I DON'T REDLINE SNIPE.

In turn, this would have a positive effect on tanks. Railguns are currently the go to weapon for anything vehicle destruction related above all other turrets. They work incredibly well at ANY RANGE. They outperform other variants on vehicles without hardeners and with hardeners. I feel there should be a trade off somewhere to bring it more inline with the performace of the other turret types.

You can't have both the highest alpha and the longest range. Well you could, if you reduced clip size, ROF, and heat cost. But that's the point, got to lose in order to gain.