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New JudgeRhadamanthus Video - Redline Rails

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Foundation Seldon Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 419	Posted - 2014.02.06 20:24:00 - [1] - Quote All credits to JudgeRhadamanthus for the video. Send any likes over to him at : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1806881#post1806881 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHy6CXWk3K4 A FANTASTIC look at the problem with Redline Rails in their current state of the game. Check it out. Saga v. Methana Balance
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 6703	Posted - 2014.02.06 20:25:00 - [2] - Quote About bloody time....players have been telling CCP for months red line rail turrets are ridiculous....I hope CCP finally takes note. "My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 9043	Posted - 2014.02.06 20:29:00 - [3] - Quote Redline faggotry ftw I expect this to be fixed SoonTM. ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
Foundation Seldon Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 419	Posted - 2014.02.06 20:34:00 - [4] - Quote True Adamance wrote: About bloody time....players have been telling CCP for months red line rail turrets are ridiculous....I hope CCP finally takes note. Made even more ridiculous thanks to stacking 30% damage mods and a buff to their base damage amounts. Various comments from CCP members make it sound like they've payed attention to Judge's videos and discuss them among the dev team, hopefully they're listening now. Saga v. Methana Balance
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution Public Disorder. 1873	Posted - 2014.02.07 04:20:00 - [5] - Quote pretty spot on. map design sucks. the redlines are always elevated over the battlefield. it needs to be the other way around. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Dauth Jenkins Ultramarine Corp 13	Posted - 2014.02.07 05:00:00 - [6] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: pretty spot on. map design sucks. the redlines are always elevated over the battlefield. it needs to be the other way around. That may not work.... having the battlefield higher than the red line would make dropping in dropships after the start of the match more dangerous... and on that note, why do FLYING units get dropped of by flying units...why can't they launch from the MCC.. Also why do they have to reload at the ground, and not at the MCC? Maybe it's just me wanting the MCC to do more than just float there and take damage. Sees prototompers... Sees blueberries start to snipe... Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6740	Posted - 2014.02.07 06:04:00 - [7] - Quote Damn! Now that's what I call a solid review of the issue backed by supporting evidence followed by reasonable recommendations on remedying the situation. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Ankbar Latrommi S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance 71	Posted - 2014.02.07 06:14:00 - [8] - Quote CCP could do a lot worse things than pursuing Pyrex to hire him as a designer. Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." Eve> FPS

CCP Saberwing C C P C C P Alliance 1336	Posted - 2014.02.07 06:23:00 - [9] - Quote Hey guys We've had a discussion with the CPM before and are aware of issues around Red Line Railguns - honestly we're not happy with them and it's something we want to address. I personally spoke with Judge last night about this and we threw around some suggestions. As far as I'm aware, it's unfortunately not a simple fix because of the way that the projectiles are handled (and they're not a server-side change). I'll be forwarding this video on to Wolfman/Remnant though and seeing what we can do. :) Thanks for pulling it together - this sort of feedback is great. CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian

Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6740	Posted - 2014.02.07 06:29:00 - [10] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Hey guys We've had a discussion with the CPM before and are aware of issues around Red Line Railguns - honestly we're not happy with them and it's something we want to address. I personally spoke with Judge last night about this and we threw around some suggestions. As far as I'm aware, it's unfortunately not a simple fix because of the way that the projectiles are handled (and they're not a server-side change). I'll be forwarding this video on to Wolfman/Remnant though and seeing what we can do. :) Thanks for pulling it together - this sort of feedback is great. +1 for bluetagging this thread and for letting us know that fixing this is not as simple as changing stats on a server. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*

Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 372	Posted - 2014.02.07 06:42:00 - [11] - Quote Judge's solutions never cease to be spot on. Until red line rails are neutered, i continue to abuse them and let my python rust away.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 82	Posted - 2014.02.07 06:54:00 - [12] - Quote I have been waiting for this video from Judge, and it was worth the wait. Spot on (as always) Judge! :-) You get a like from me (wish I could give more) PS: Hey CCP Saberwing, nice to have you back! Heard you had a nice time in Korea :-)

CCP Saberwing C C P C C P Alliance 1343	Posted - 2014.02.07 07:01:00 - [13] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: I have been waiting for this video from Judge, and it was worth the wait. Spot on (as always) Judge! :-) You get a like from me (wish I could give more) PS: Hey CCP Saberwing, nice to have you back! Heard you had a nice time in Korea :-) Thanks! Nice to be back. Korea was awesome, thanks. :) I had a blast and love it there! I'm hoping to go back for a long weekend some point soon. CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian

COVERT SUBTERFUGE PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 144	Posted - 2014.02.07 07:14:00 - [14] - Quote Great video...and bloody hell that resuply at 7 mins was a joy to watch lol. Legend! Subterfuge and terrorist GOD in the making Proud Minmatar - Alt of THE GREY CARDINAL Love the Art of War
WUT ANG D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 86	Posted - 2014.02.07 07:18:00 - [15] - Quote Fix = remove red zone place 100% neutral border around playable area. Increase Home spawn locations too maybe five locations instead of two, to prevent spawn killing. Swarm SP Refund Please!!!!!!! "LONG LIVE DARK LEGION"
Fiddlestaxp TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 393	Posted - 2014.02.07 07:50:00 - [16] - Quote Make railguns behave like the mass driver(of old?). Have the projectile disappear after a certain duration. Make this distance ONLY so short as to make the railguns all but useless on anything but their home point from the red line. Nothing should have near infinite range Buff infantry AV a tiny bit while you are at it. Swarms were too strong against dropships, but a necessary component of countering #tankspam. Tanks are mostly countered by tanks right now... This is boring and unimaginative. Symmetry is poor game design(Except for maps. Im still pissed that Tabletop was in the tourney rotation... AND that you didn't swap sides. You don't think the side that has the covered letter (C/D) has an advantage over the side with open letters (A/B)?) EDIT: Removing the redline is not an option at this point. You WOULD get spawn camped. I don't care how many spawn points there are.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 460	Posted - 2014.02.07 08:28:00 - [17] - Quote I don't think changing the firing angle for tanks is a good idea. Being unable to hit something because it is close and high like a Forge Gunner on a roof or a Tank on a ridge sucks. Good Assault Dropships pilots are already a decent enough hazard for tanks if they can get in out dead zones so I am unsure that increasing those is a great idea (and a shout out to all the DS pilots that have run me out of a location; damn fine job). Saying that tanker could easily see the dropship coming before it gets in the tank's deadzone is a little hazy as the dropship can maneuver into position fairly easily without being spotted, providing the tank isn't being a giant redline sissy. The problem is the fact that the only way to beat a redline tank is to be in the redline. Pause the video at about 2 minutes. The enemy tank in the redline probably was in the redline because Judge's team had a sniper tank (left side of the map). I am an avid tanker, I have been since about 2 months of playing the game so maybe early March 2013, but the redline railgun thing sucks. Not being able to field a tank without getting pelted by some giant sissy deep in the enemy redline is really lame. I don't know what the fix is but I eagerly await it.
Ghural The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 173	Posted - 2014.02.07 08:34:00 - [18] - Quote My suggestion to help improve the situation is to allow airships to enter the redzone. Ther're not so overpowered to be able to decimate everything. But that can harass tanks. I'm able to take out tanks in my dropship. The only thing that saves them is the ability to go deep into their redzone. It's stupid and unfair
Nguruthos IX Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 2452	Posted - 2014.02.07 08:43:00 - [19] - Quote Good video judge. However, I would have preferred just a montage of 100% - 0% dropship HP in under a second. Plus some footage of the futility of attempting to oust a red-line rail tanker from their sniping. Being invincible is bad. Having that DPS is bad. Having both is insane.
Rogue Saint Science For Death 764	Posted - 2014.02.07 09:01:00 - [20] - Quote So what is the counter for derpships? Swarms are pointless, forges are an option but you can't be sure you have a decent forge gunner in the team so whats left? Rail Gun tank! Sure, I'm not a DS pilot, so my comments are invalid, but until there is more sensible counter to DS I'm all for redline rails. GôêGÆ+GÆ+GÆ¦ - Causes headaches, it's official +1 for Infantry Skills Refund in 1.8 or I win DUST514

Nguruthos IX Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 2452	Posted - 2014.02.07 09:02:00 - [21] - Quote Rogue Saint wrote: So what is the counter for derpships? Swarms are pointless, forges are an option but you can't be sure you have a decent forge gunner in the team so whats left? Rail Gun tank! Sure, I'm not a DS pilot, so my comments are invalid, but until there is more sensible counter to DS I'm all for redline rails. two wrongs, something something
rpastry Carbon 7 CRONOS. 117	Posted - 2014.02.07 09:23:00 - [22] - Quote BUFF SWARM RANGE [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 564	Posted - 2014.02.07 09:51:00 - [23] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: The redline is a real problem. Rail tanks in them are a plague on the game. Have a look and see exactly how bad it is and what can be done in my latest video. Where did that 400 extra damage from the basic railgun suddenly come from? You can't claim "base" stats if you're not using "base" stats..... :/ Frankly I do drive tanks, and I think that as it is now.. ADV and PRO rails have no real place on the field, because they allow one to effectively place the equivalent of an extra damage amp onto the railgun without consuming a module slot. Tanks should have to choose between high defense or high offense, but with a PRO rail, they can get the high defense and this substitute damage amp at the same time. On tank vs tank the basic rail seems to be just fine, but yes, the dropships do seem to need more Health in order to survive. But if not more health then a natural Resistance to the damage type used by the railgun... which would permit a scaling of dropships vs tank without having to mess around with infantry attack values, separation of tank railgun type damage from forge gun type damage would also be needed. Also, making the redline immune to any fire penetrating it enforces the idea of redline camping. The enemy cannot shoot out of their base, so you can take your time to stand in the open and track them as they approach the barrier. Effectively meaning that the first squad to reach the enemy base and camp the barrier would be the winners of the match... If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
Prius Vecht Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 253	Posted - 2014.02.07 10:28:00 - [24] - Quote Mortars and Bombers would both do a great job of making it a bad idea to sit in a static position for an extended period. Hopefully both will be here at some point. In the meantime lowering the angle of fire is a good idea.
tween tween UrAnus Air Service 0	Posted - 2014.02.07 11:07:00 - [25] - Quote I'm a tanker myself and Yes can problems might exist, but look it from the tanks point of view or in this case, mine. I pull out a rail gun to take out turrets or enemy tanks. One of few times I sit at the redline with a rail, is when my team gets redlined completely. Even then, I have a hard time taking out dropship piloted by Ars Kayc, Foxhound Elite and Evolution-7, just to name a few. Another reason FOR me going on the redline with a rail gun is that it is impossible for me to fight enemy tanks as they get cover by one drop ship, which makes it impossible, at least for me to fight head on with blaster vs blaster tank. Here the creator of this video could be a good example, as I when encountering him, never seen him play alone, but always with a squad. Nothing wrong with that, don't get me wrong, but when they steamroll my blueberry team with infantry, tanks and him in a dropship, it makes it impossible to go as infantry or tank. Of my encounters in matches like This, I've only shot Judge down two or three times. Judge is a good dropship pilot, but he rarely plays alone, as it seems like he does in these videos. Last remark, good blaster tanks get good scores like good dropship pilot gets good scores, but put a good blaster tanker out on the battlefield against a good DS pilot and you'd prolly see the tanker get destroyed, if he fails to find reasonable cover
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 647	Posted - 2014.02.07 11:54:00 - [26] - Quote fyi, for reference, here's the elevation stats for an M1A1 tank: Main gun: - 9 to + 20 degrees Commander's LMG: -10 to +65 degrees (ps MAV please) Selling dust codes!
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 185	Posted - 2014.02.07 12:21:00 - [27] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: fyi, for reference, here's the elevation stats for an M1A1 tank: Main gun: - 9 to + 20 degrees Commander's LMG: -10 to +65 degrees And what are the engagement ranges? I'm pretty sure that real combat takes places over distances longer than 500m. Also, if elevations are changed, I want them to be dependant on turret type. I feel like the close combat turrets should have higher elevation. Missiles should be able to shoot at 70-¦ or something. This would actually give them a niche.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2415	Posted - 2014.02.07 13:59:00 - [28] - Quote No rails = DS heaven As for railgun damage, infantry wanted turrets to have ammo so it was always going to do more damage than the handheld FG Plus railgun turrets can fire across all of the map, sometimes you think it is a tank but in fact its a guy in an installation Railguns can track but the shell has travel time and also can dip at extreme ranges, notice how judge fails to hit the DS when its moving except when it lands which doesnt matter because the guy has landed and is fine and has got to where he wanted to go, try hitting when its moving 8000dmg in a quater of a second, yea now your lying your ass off I fly DS and im fine with it, i dont even use ADS half the time so my agility is that of a rock anyways but i make up for it with defence, proper flying and you can easily survive in compounds and under 100m and know your area you can avoid smashing into buildings and GTFO out of the way Spine cresent is the only map i really ever see you mention, on that map the rail installations are my main enemy, most railtanks pilots cant hit **** when its moving but the installations have better accuracy but then again i squad with ppl who can use rails so i act as bait find the tank and while they are shooting at me my squad takes them out But spine cresent itself is okay to fly around, remove the installations and its great, sure a tank may get dropped in but it takes 3 shots to take me out and if your not moving fast after the 1 let alone 2nd your dead and hiding in the compound is fine since they tend to have high walls massive towers and break LOS to you Elevation can be tampered with, you are assuming the land the tank is on is level, yet i could go up a slight incline which helps my elevation which means i can shoot targets which are higher up because i used my terrain to my advantage, you nerf the elevation of the turret doesnt matter because they can use the terrain to shoot higher up so what then nerf the terrain? As for the redline needs to be a shield you cannot re-enter is all fine and dandy but thats a massive buff to DS and why is that? thats because the actualy flying zone is extended by a large amount so for example you could fly alot further into the back of the spawn than a tank can go before you even get a redline warning so that redline rail maybe 150m in the redline yet your DS can easily fly 300m back into the spawn before you get a redline warning Intelligence is OP
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 1788	Posted - 2014.02.07 14:01:00 - [29] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Hey guys We've had a discussion with the CPM before and are aware of issues around Red Line Railguns - honestly we're not happy with them and it's something we want to address. I personally spoke with Judge last night about this and we threw around some suggestions. As far as I'm aware, it's unfortunately not a simple fix because of the way that the projectiles are handled (and they're not a server-side change). I'll be forwarding this video on to Wolfman/Remnant though and seeing what we can do. :) Thanks for pulling it together - this sort of feedback is great. larger maps with further back redlines from the combat area. red-line sniping is far less common on large maps.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1426	Posted - 2014.02.07 14:35:00 - [30] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: No rails = DS heaven ......notice how judge fails to hit the DS when its moving except when it lands which doesn't matter because the guy has landed and is fine and has got to where he wanted to go, try hitting when its moving You keep saying no rails = DS heaven. Which I myself explicitly stated the opposite to on two distinct occasions in the video and multiple times on the forum . Could you acknowledge please in your next post, as you keep throwing this at me, that you understand that I have explicitly advocated that rails must stay. Also, as I stated already on the video comments section I had to keep the DS in my sights so the range would show for the video so I couldn't lead it. It is also why you'll see my spooling each time, so the screen is not obscured by white flashes. I could have hit it if I wanted too. I am impressed by the forum here today. Sitting through a 30 minute video shows quite a high level of commitment to the game and making it better. Bravo to those who put 30 minutes aside. We also have to acknowledge that CCP, through Sabrewing, has told us that it is something they are not happy with. It is good to see they care about this difficult issue. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight



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