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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
293
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Posted - 2014.02.11 02:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
First, let me start with the disclaimer, I hate dropships and dropship pilots, mainly because they are a continuous and nebulous threat just waiting to rush in and ruin my gunfight and they usually think they deserve to be unassailable. I'll look at the lineup before a pubmatch and offer my squad bounties on known dropship pilots. "First one of you to kill X (Judge) in his DS gets a million isk!"__ I usually go on to say I don't care how, rail installations are best, but ramming the DS with another DS is encouraged. Swarms only work in combination with numerous other AVers and they should be buffed, they need to be fast enough to hit dropships that hit afterburners and outrun every other volley. An AA swarm is needed. Anyway, the idea of limiting rail elevation and range is unreasonable. You will always be able to use terrain contours to elevate a shot above the normal range of motion, so any additional limits would be pointless. As for limiting range, it would neutralize the role of AV sniper. I realize you don't like being sniped, but you should be thankful you have enough EHP to avoid being one-shotted. You're already basically immune to infantry AV, but that's not enough for you (typical DS pilot entitlement). I would grant you a higher flight ceiling, or cheaper dropships, but not immunity from snipers. As for redlines, they are only an issues with Skirmish 2.0 and Domination (lame game modes). I hope they fix the redline problem by reverting back to Skirmish 1.0 (a knockoff of BF rush). Attacking in circles (from A to B to C and back to A) feels a bit circular, and rolling objectives on longer narrow maps would make the busdriver role less lame.
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
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Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
293
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Posted - 2014.02.11 12:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:This game may never see larger maps lol You're one of those pilots I put a bounty on before you even call your DS! But yes, larger maps will make the DS role more important, both attackers and defenders will need fast transport from one set if control points to the next (after they have been neutralized).
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
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Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
295
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Posted - 2014.02.12 03:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Midas Fool wrote:Luk Manag wrote:First, let me start with the disclaimer, I hate dropships and dropship pilots, mainly because they are a continuous and nebulous threat just waiting to rush in and ruin my gunfight and they usually think they deserve to be unassailable. I'll look at the lineup before a pubmatch and offer my squad bounties on known dropship pilots. "First one of you to kill X (Judge) in his DS gets a million isk!"__ I usually go on to say I don't care how, rail installations are best, but ramming the DS with another DS is encouraged. Swarms only work in combination with numerous other AVers and they should be buffed, they need to be fast enough to hit dropships that hit afterburners and outrun every other volley. An AA swarm is needed. Anyway, the idea of limiting rail elevation and range is unreasonable. You will always be able to use terrain contours to elevate a shot above the normal range of motion, so any additional limits would be pointless. As for limiting range, it would neutralize the role of AV sniper. I realize you don't like being sniped, but you should be thankful you have enough EHP to avoid being one-shotted. You're already basically immune to infantry AV, but that's not enough for you (typical DS pilot entitlement). I would grant you a higher flight ceiling, or cheaper dropships, but not immunity from snipers. As for redlines, they are only an issues with Skirmish 2.0 and Domination (lame game modes). I hope they fix the redline problem by reverting back to Skirmish 1.0 (a knockoff of BF rush). Attacking in circles (from A to B to C and back to A) feels a bit circular, and rolling objectives on longer narrow maps would make the busdriver role less lame. Instead of writing this you could have just said: Hi, my name is Luk Manag. I do not understand dropships and I do not know what to do when encountered by one. I would prefer it if dropships did not exist, because I am not willing nor able to incorporate dropships into my game strategy.
It's not exactly like that. I just want to bankrupt them. I recently skilled up my Forge gun to help end the aerial menace. If you'll listen to any other justifications, I put a lot of SP and attention into the AV role.
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
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Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
299
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Posted - 2014.02.17 00:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
CEO Pyrex agrees with Judge. While utterly dominating in a Domination (Assault Dropship), he lamented on the level of risk a prototype railtaink represents. He cited all of the rigorous evidence, because you guys think tanks should have less range and be prevented from pointing up... silly. I'm fine with removing redlines, but don't nerf the only real counter for the Dropship.
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
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Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
299
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Posted - 2014.02.17 00:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Luk Manag wrote:I'm fine with removing redlines, but don't nerf the only real counter for the Dropship. You didn't watch the video did you. OR look at this chart. I watched it and I remember the chart. It proves nothing. I don't agree that you should have a safe zone completely out of range of all weapons. You can hit your AB and reach your own safe zone, and the redline is an unrelated problem with similar qualities.
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
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Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
299
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Posted - 2014.02.17 01:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:Luk Manag wrote:CEO Pyrex agrees with Judge. While utterly dominating in a Domination (Assault Dropship), he lamented on the level of risk a prototype railtaink represents. He cited all of the rigorous evidence, because you guys think tanks should have less range and be prevented from pointing up... silly. I'm fine with removing redlines, but don't nerf the only real counter for the Dropship. So its not okay for rail tanks to snipe across a map from close to the redline, but okay when they can sit so deep in the redline dropships have to recall or be shot down? Do you honestly know anything about dropships? At all? What is your experience with a dropship? They can keep their ridiculous damage and charge time because they are the "only" counter to other tanks, they shouldn't be able to have that kind of power from the safe zone, its balance bro, just think about. Also on every railtank thread there is a list of other counters besides a railgun. I think the redline should be an energy shield that blocks weapons fire. I think there should be more ways to kill the OP assault dropships. I understand that they are really fun and add some dynamic tactics to the otherwise two dimensional gunplay, but I really hate seeing those pilots get kill after kill with 0 deaths. I hate seeing them shoot up out of range of ALL weapons when there's a threat detected.
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
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Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
299
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Posted - 2014.02.17 01:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:Luk Manag wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:Luk Manag wrote:CEO Pyrex agrees with Judge. While utterly dominating in a Domination (Assault Dropship), he lamented on the level of risk a prototype railtaink represents. He cited all of the rigorous evidence, because you guys think tanks should have less range and be prevented from pointing up... silly. I'm fine with removing redlines, but don't nerf the only real counter for the Dropship. So its not okay for rail tanks to snipe across a map from close to the redline, but okay when they can sit so deep in the redline dropships have to recall or be shot down? Do you honestly know anything about dropships? At all? What is your experience with a dropship? They can keep their ridiculous damage and charge time because they are the "only" counter to other tanks, they shouldn't be able to have that kind of power from the safe zone, its balance bro, just think about. Also on every railtank thread there is a list of other counters besides a railgun. I think the redline should be an energy shield that blocks weapons fire. I think there should be more ways to kill the OP assault dropships. I understand that they are really fun and add some dynamic tactics to the otherwise two dimensional gunplay, but I really hate seeing those pilots get kill after kill with 0 deaths. I hate seeing them shoot up out of range of ALL weapons when there's a threat detected. You really are a moron, kill after kill with zero deaths? try flying one and tell me how you feel about losing 450+ k ISK because a 70k tank 2 shots you, or a 27k viper runs into you or though rarely these days an RDV decides to teleport into existence right in front of you. Redline rail tanks aren't the only counter, a good forge gunner can take a dropship down, 2 good forge gunners can wtfbbq one before he even has a chance to change direction, add in those forge gunners having squad mates that look after them (rep hives ect) and they are an unassailable hard counter to the lol OP dropship.
Oh, a painful insult! Most of my tanks cost 450k and I blow them up all the time, so I understand the risk (isk) vs reward game.
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
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Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
299
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Posted - 2014.02.17 01:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:Assuming you come out of the redline and risk anything. Also tanks don't die as quickly as dropships and are much better tanked when av tries to take them out. You must be fitting some good mods on a tank to get it to 450k that is just 100k or so more expensive than an assault dropships chassis. I'm really not a fan of redline anything. My tanks are decent. I mostly play ambush these days, because too many matches end up on the redline. It's not fun on either side of the redline, and it's easier to stay Isk positive in quicker ambushes.
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
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Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
305
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Posted - 2014.02.18 14:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
The dropship problems will soon be resolved by my Caldari Sentinel...3 or 4 damage mods and a forge gun. I don't like having to chase dropships with a railtank, especially if it's the only enemy vehicle in play, because I should stay focused on the frontlines. The tank vs dropship battle sidesteps the infantry engagement while the pilots are basically off playing their own separate game of owl and mouse, and it's off-putting for a lot of shooter fans. It is hard to see your points on balance when good pilots are nearly unkillable and a surprise alpha strike by a rail tank, or a full AV squad is what it takes. Even then, I've watched you guys annihilate heavies in wide open areas, and I suppose you think that's normal.
I know the game market competition is serious, and I know CCP has a lot of balance work ahead, but I will not assume they have discounted their efforts on Dust 514. We have the Gregorian and Chinese new-years to thank for a lot of the inaction, and likely a new and uncommunicated directive on larger less frequent updates.
What, if anything, would be a viable alternative (in your thinking) to a railtank nerf? Cheaper, more hitpoints? Remember that railtanks are also critical for countering blaster tanks, who, like Assault Dropships, enjoy breaking infantry encounters with impunity.
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
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Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
306
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Posted - 2014.02.18 14:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
CEOPyrex CloneA wrote:Luk Manag wrote:CEO Pyrex agrees with Judge. While utterly dominating in a Domination (Assault Dropship), he lamented on the level of risk a prototype railtaink represents. He cited all of the rigorous evidence, because you guys think tanks should have less range and be prevented from pointing up... silly. I'm fine with removing redlines, but don't nerf the only real counter for the Dropship. No you are wrong, so wrong, in fact you are so far from being right that you had a make a two day trip to get to this conclusion (reasonably priced motel stop over - pool was crap - AC a little disappointing) Red line railgun tanks are VERY broken indeed, why should you have all the power and almost no risk at all. that to me smacks of 'im alright Jack' and protectionism. Frankly CCP are not showing much leadership or collaboration on this topic either, almost 3 months of 1.7 with very little sight of 1.8 coming except (before fanfest maybe) that means there is a potential 6 months between patches and that to me says this game is no longer important or valued by CCP and is being kept alive by a skeleton crew to keep the 1.6m GBP PA it perhaps makes going. CCP need to wake up and realize they have a rough diamond here that with the right level of effort would make good money, what we see instead is a focus on a tech demo game which requires the user to shell out -ú200 for a pair of goggles that are already technically obsolete, a WOD franchise that apparently is now going to be a bit like DAYZ (way to bandwagon onto a game that itself is already dead) and a cash cow that is about to be totally overtaken by Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous, both games with incredible pedigrees already. Seriously CCP are you asleep at the wheel?
Thank you for the excellent reply. I loled at my trip to wrong-land. I'm right that you agree with Judge. I'm also right for implying that you have a history of endorsing OP tactics. You don't care that I agreed with the redline argument. I want CCP to remove the redlines and maybe just add a few more spawnpoints to prevent overcamping if they can't come up with a good solution (energy shield). You just like going 20/0 every match in an Assault Dropship, and you think it would be even better if you didn't have to worry about railguns, and the point about the broken redline is a convenient smokescreen.
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
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Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
306
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Posted - 2014.02.18 18:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Foundation Seldon. LOL. These are the moments of hilarious deflections and unsubstantiated fluff. Yes, Judge has some specific points about the role of the dropship, emphasizing teamplay tactics (fulfilled by any dropship), and glosses over the infantry squad shattering impact of the Assault Dropship. To support the team play role, I would suggest extra HP when weapons are absent, but an offensive weapons platform needs to be vulnerable, or people will simply quit at higher rates. You can make reasonable points about dropships not having adequate cover on some maps, and that's largely a map design problem. You can't simply expect all maps be built to accommodate dropship tactics. I would personally like to see more infantry-only maps (all underground or starship interior). Other maps, like nearly all of them, were built for vehicle combat, and it is unrealistic for me to expect infantry-only engagements in open fields, likewise, it's unreasonable for you to think open skies should be ideal for your dropships. Some maps are more dangerous than others, and maybe we'll see more valleys/mountains/cityscapes provide cover for assault Dropships. I'm not a huge fan of the sniper role, AV or anti-infantry, but many years of PvP shooter history (industry wide), in every game, all have preserved the ominous threat elements that a sniper brings into the experience. Yes, they're annoying, but no, you will not be allowed to run amok.
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
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Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
306
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Posted - 2014.02.19 11:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ad-hominem? I don't think that applies when the claim is evidence based. It's more like a Dust Meme.
Railguns do more damage, but HP and resistance values were modified so the dropship is tougher than ever. It was easier to one-shot a dropship pre 1.7, and while it may be true that railguns do more damage, the fact that dropships are more survivable now makes the statement about damage a misdirection. The whole video was the unsubstantiated fluff (with some excellent examples of team support - btw Judge, thanks for the videos). It had nice graphs, sure, but you could have just said. "I don't like how tanks are able to shoot up in the air."
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
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Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
306
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Posted - 2014.02.20 13:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
CEOPyrex CloneA wrote:Luk Manag wrote:Ad-hominem? I don't think that applies when the claim is evidence based. It's more like a Dust Meme.
Railguns do more damage, but HP and resistance values were modified so the dropship is tougher than ever. It was easier to one-shot a dropship pre 1.7, and while it may be true that railguns do more damage, the fact that dropships are more survivable now makes the statement about damage a misdirection. The whole video was the unsubstantiated fluff (with some excellent examples of team support - btw Judge, thanks for the videos). It had nice graphs, sure, but you could have just said. "I don't like how tanks are able to shoot up in the air." Look how stupid you are, seriously. The evidence is pretty clear, the case is practically open and shut, your little attempt to 'cloud' the issue has failed.
No hard feelings CEOPyrex, but neither the case or the proposed solutions will resolve anything. You guys think that being sniped is unfair, but it isn't...it's just not fun. Keep making the great videos.
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
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