Rails dont effect me or my DS, i can fly on spine cresent all day long if i need to, i fit my DS right because i expect rails in every game i play but also im squadded up with enough people who can help to counter the rail

TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL

It is good to see they care about this difficult issue.

As for railgun damage, infantry wanted turrets to have ammo so it was always going to do more damage than the handheld FG

Plus railgun turrets can fire across all of the map, sometimes you think it is a tank but in fact its a guy in an installation

Railguns can track but the shell has travel time and also can dip at extreme ranges so you generally have to lead your target, this is a skill to do

8000dmg in a quater of a second, yea now your lying your ass off

I fly DS and im fine with it, i dont even use ADS half the time so my agility is that of a rock anyways but i make up for it with defence, proper flying and you can easily survive in compounds and under 100m and know your area you can avoid smashing into buildings and GTFO out of the way

Spine cresent is the only map i really ever see you mention, on that map the rail installations are my main enemy, most railtanks pilots cant hit **** when its moving but the installations have better accuracy but then again i squad with ppl who can use rails so i act as bait find the tank and while they are shooting at me my squad takes them out

But spine cresent itself is okay to fly around, remove the installations and its great, sure a tank may get dropped in but it takes 3 shots to take me out and if your not moving fast after the 1 let alone 2nd your dead and hiding in the compound is fine since they tend to have high walls massive towers and break LOS to you

Elevation can be tampered with, you are assuming the land the tank is on is level, yet i could go up a slight incline which helps my elevation which means i can shoot targets which are higher up because i used my terrain to my advantage, you nerf the elevation of the turret doesnt matter because they can use the terrain to shoot higher up so what then nerf the terrain?

As for the redline needs to be a shield you cannot re-enter is all fine and dandy but thats a massive buff to DS and why is that? thats because the actualy flying zone is extended by a large amount so for example you could fly alot further into the back of the spawn than a tank can go before you even get a redline warning so that redline rail maybe 150m in the redline yet your DS can easily fly 300m back into the spawn before you get a redline warning

Yeah right go and remove railguns so that he can stomp around 24/7 with his derpship. Do you know how insanely hard it is to take down a dropship that has 3 shield hardeners with a forgegun? Its extreme difficult cause the charge time and damage had beeing reduced on them and swarms dont even get trough the shield recharge threshold when a hardener is running which means the damage doesnt even stick to shield vehicles. To even further enlight you swarms deal only 59% of their damage against dropships regardless if it is shield or armor. Can you please explain me why a light armoured vehicle is capable to do that?

So lets recap:
- 2 out of 3 AV plattforms are uselss against dropships (swarms+plasma canon)
-only real threat for dropships is a tank with a railgun or a forgegun which barely does the job

Judge may sounds you could reason with him but in fact he simply wants that his playstyle cannot be countered. If you touch the railguns then i would like to see forgeguns brought back to their former lvl. Swarm launcher damage efficency vs. dropships increased, lock range extended to 250 meters, swarm missile speed increase by 50%. You have to think about it WHY so many people are using a railtank vs. dropships cause most of the time its the only viable option. When you hit the pilot with a forge he just flips is afterburner on and gets out of range before i get the chance to hit im more then 2 times (proto assault forge).

And now about the "waves of opportunity" that judge mentioned. You notice that he has either 3 or 2 hardeners on his fits? With max skills there is no "wave of opportunity" there is just consistant stomping without a chance to strike back.

Or lets put it this way:
how many deaths does a decent dropship pilot get per match? 1-2 max if you are lucky to catch him. So you really think he needs a buff for his playstyle?

but but... no nerf/buffs to anything...

Just increase the battlefield like 200-400m and push the redline similarly. it works

The most solid solution for sure, but the dev team is pushed as it is. Map redesign is a long term solution. We need something sooner I feel.

Remove redline - add large turret installations to the sides of the MCC looking down. See my post further up, I believe it's number 93.

That may not work.... having the battlefield higher than the red line would make dropping in dropships after the start of the match more dangerous... and on that note, why do FLYING units get dropped of by flying units...why can't they launch from the MCC.. Also why do they have to reload at the ground, and not at the MCC? Maybe it's just me wanting the MCC to do more than just float there and take damage.

Not really... the map has already been designed for huge scale warfare... only like 40% of all maps is actually used. Removing the redline is just the same as pushing it back. :D

No redesign, nerfs/buffs, change in redline mechanics... everything stays the same with the exception of high points no longer being in the redline.

All credits to JudgeRhadamanthus for the video.
Send any likes over to him at : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1806881#post1806881

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHy6CXWk3K4

A FANTASTIC look at the problem with Redline Rails in their current state of the game. Check it out.

Redline faggotry ftw
I expect this to be fixed SoonTM.

Made even more ridiculous thanks to stacking 30% damage mods and a buff to their base damage amounts. Various comments from CCP members make it sound like they've payed attention to Judge's videos and discuss them among the dev team, hopefully they're listening now.

That may not work.... having the battlefield higher than the red line would make dropping in dropships after the start of the match more dangerous... and on that note, why do FLYING units get dropped of by flying units...why can't they launch from the MCC.. Also why do they have to reload at the ground, and not at the MCC? Maybe it's just me wanting the MCC to do more than just float there and take damage.

Hey guys

We've had a discussion with the CPM before and are aware of issues around Red Line Railguns - honestly we're not happy with them and it's something we want to address.

I personally spoke with Judge last night about this and we threw around some suggestions. As far as I'm aware, it's unfortunately not a simple fix because of the way that the projectiles are handled (and they're not a server-side change). I'll be forwarding this video on to Wolfman/Remnant though and seeing what we can do. :)

Thanks for pulling it together - this sort of feedback is great.

Make railguns behave like the mass driver(of old?). Have the projectile disappear after a certain duration. Make this distance ONLY so short as to make the railguns all but useless on anything but their home point from the red line.

I don't think changing the firing angle for tanks is a good idea. Being unable to hit something because it is close and high like a Forge Gunner on a roof or a Tank on a ridge sucks. Good Assault Dropships pilots are already a decent enough hazard for tanks if they can get in out dead zones so I am unsure that increasing those is a great idea (and a shout out to all the DS pilots that have run me out of a location; damn fine job). Saying that tanker could easily see the dropship coming before it gets in the tank's deadzone is a little hazy as the dropship can maneuver into position fairly easily without being spotted, providing the tank isn't being a giant redline sissy.

The problem is the fact that the only way to beat a redline tank is to be in the redline. Pause the video at about 2 minutes. The enemy tank in the redline probably was in the redline because Judge's team had a sniper tank (left side of the map). I am an avid tanker, I have been since about 2 months of playing the game so maybe early March 2013, but the redline railgun thing sucks. Not being able to field a tank without getting pelted by some giant sissy deep in the enemy redline is really lame.

I don't know what the fix is but I eagerly await it.

In other words you run in tanks squads?

Rails should be long range just not 600m (across the map) make it like 400 then they will be forced to come off that hill and CCP PLEASE DO SOMETHING ABOUT HAVS ON TOP OF TOWERS.

Oh can anyone tell me if this looks right

Swarms 175m

Rail Turret 600m

Blaster Turret 225m (the longest I've been killed by one)

Missile Turret ? I haven't seen a long distance kill yet cause their not really used.

Missile Turret from
Asslt Dropship 215m my longest death




SWARMS SUCK I WANT MY SP BACK

Today's tanks have great range, no reason tanks 20,000 years in the future should have LESS range just because you say so. Dust tanks use very powerful magnetism instead of explosive charges for the railgun, why do you think it's called a railgun?

I'll accept a nerf to rail range if snipers get a range nerf.

Lol wut? Rails are already hard-capped at 600m. You want to nerf their range? Then how about a sniper's maximum range gets nerfed in return too? You really think a turret that long, with so many magnetic rings to accelerate projectiles, will have a short range?

Today's tanks have great range, no reason tanks 20,000 years in the future should have LESS range just because you say so. Dust tanks use very powerful magnetism instead of explosive charges for the railgun, why do you think it's called a railgun?

I'll accept a nerf to rail range if snipers get a range nerf.

We all know what happened to Dust / vehicles when CCP listened to just a few people.

Considering 600m nets them near full map coverage from the redline I don't see that as being unreasonable. If Snipers had a 600m optimal range then I don't think nerfing that would be unreasonable either. The look of the weapon shouldn't have any bearing on how that weapon is balanced.
:P



This is an irrelevant point at the end of the day. If we were at all concerned about making the game jive with real world war conventions then Tanks wouldn't be able to be effectively operated by a single pilot to begin with. The Railgun could have a 20m range if it provided an overall positive effect to the balance in the game (it wouldn't so I'm not suggesting that).



It's a good thing the case for nerfing Rails isn't held by just a few people then. In their current incarnation in the game they're acting like a Shotgun with 600m range. You make comparisons between it and the Sniper rifle but, last time I checked, I couldn't effectively use a Sniper Rifle in 20m just as easily I could use it at 200m. It's overall flexibility compared to other turrets isn't just a problem when it comes to Tank v. Dropship, they're a problem in Tank v. Tank as well.

You do realize that this whole topic is about railguns relation to the redline, right?

You do know todays tanks can't park in the redline, right?

You do realize that this whole topic is about railguns relation to the redline, right?

You do know todays tanks can't park in the redline, right?

The look? The look of the weapon? I don't care about the look of the weapon. I care about how it works. It's using electromagnetism to move projectiles at hypersonic speeds.

How are rails a problem in tank v tank? Are you mad? Will infantry only be happy when the only turrets tanks have are missile turrets?

But wait, tankers will use those too effectively! Then those must be nerfed! Then subsequently removed, and tanks will have no more purpose, and infantry will achieve their goal of having tanks removed.

I also love all this "tanks can't be operated by one person BS." In what video game does it require more than one person to operate? Even in World of Tanks, there's a 4-man crew, but it's still a video game, and that one person playing that specific video game controls the whole of the tank.

I'm not an infantry dude by the way.
:P

Hey guys

We've had a discussion with the CPM before and are aware of issues around Red Line Railguns - honestly we're not happy with them and it's something we want to address.

I personally spoke with Judge last night about this and we threw around some suggestions. As far as I'm aware, it's unfortunately not a simple fix because of the way that the projectiles are handled (and they're not a server-side change). I'll be forwarding this video on to Wolfman/Remnant though and seeing what we can do. :)

Thanks for pulling it together - this sort of feedback is great.