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A shift in player mentality is needed IMO.

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KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1709	Posted - 2014.02.01 11:31:00 - [1] - Quote As I've said before, I'm so very tired of the constant stomping and can't really see any better way of upping the action than go in in small groups, mostly 2-4 dudes per squad. This way we can't be all over the battlefield, there will always be an unguarded point etc. This means that we most of the time have players on the field to fight and we don't have to stand on the redline. It also means we'll get some truly awsome fights when we're up against stacked teams. You know, FUN! So yeserday this is what we do. We're 3 players and we mostly played dom. And a trend was starting to reveal itself. Many corps and groups of players were "stuck in our queue", meaning that they were in our games for 2 hours more or less. So when put on our team they bring out their ARs, LAVs and playing the point and trying to win, nothing new about that. The next game, when facing us, they never even leave the redline. And here we're talking about 6 dudes from the same corp a corp thats been here since beta ffs, all bringing out their snipers to sort of spite us I believe. And yes I do indeed see the joy in that. Off course this leads to a very boring game for us and I would believe the other 10 dudes having their prime group of that battle not taking part. And this repeated itself more or less several times with various groups of players. I remember back in the early days of MAG, my first competitive shooter. I had a scrub clan, with scrubby players, myself included. We were normally very happy if we could do a game and not go negative KDR wise. So back then also, our little group of rag tag scrubs and houswives were set up against Q-synced teams from the best corps in the game. And what did we do? We faught them with nails and teeth. We played as tight as we could, pure combat updates/tactics on coms. In short: we did all that we could and tried to make our organization count towards beating players with way better gungame. Trying to get into 2 vs 1 scenarios. Trying to outflank and hit one spot with our 8 man squad etc. Naturally we mostly failed horribly. We got stomped over and over. Slowly but steadily our performance got better, we got respected and eventually became a factor in MAG. This was mostly the trend in MAG, most battles were filled with fierce competition, or at least thats what my rosie memories tell me.... This is far from the average situation in Dust. This goes for both the less skilled and the pro tryhards. I've been in group with and seen so many players with 5+ KDR leave battles or spawn back into the warbarge as soon as the fighting gets though. The scrubs hide out for different reasons than the tryhards, they're mstly interrested in saving that KDR, they can put up a fight but just can't be bothered. Both of these mentalitie doesn't go well with me. Fighting agaist better players, do you really think that its benefitial for your learning curve to: Stay at the redline sniping? Stay at some high point, a house or rail or whatever, taking the occational pot shot? You know popping your head up and shoot somone in the back while he's engaged in ground fighting... Same goes for the perifferee hero, sirkling the outskirts with a RR or Scr. Same goes for the logibro suddenly calling in a tank and drives aimlessly around. And so on. Why don't you people try to better yourself? Why don't you form up, wait for each other and try to blitz the point from various angles? Are you really content with having an evasive doctrine vs any good team you play? Really? IMO the Dust community is the worst I have seen in terms of player skill and cheap "lets make the game boring" tactics. Way too few try to fight the odds and improve their gungame and tactics, its just safer and better to get defensive, even if the current battlfield dictates that you'll attack or lose the game. Conclusion: Isk payout and perhaps even skillpoints should be affected by winning or losing a battle. This difference should be large enough to matter. At least a 3 to 1 difference. Hopefully this will lead to a mental shift of the general community giving us back more intense and fun battles, and that is the most important improvement of Dust IMO. http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 254	Posted - 2014.02.01 11:38:00 - [2] - Quote You and your crew are notorious for stomping! GTFO.
Delta90212 Dust2Dust. Top Men. 215	Posted - 2014.02.01 11:41:00 - [3] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: You and your crew are notorious for stomping! GTFO. Why the hate? Fear The Tribes / Standings Minmatar 5 / Gallente 5 / Pilot
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 1509	Posted - 2014.02.01 11:41:00 - [4] - Quote Try to wear ADV sometime. 1.8 it's so secret that nobody know what will be in it, even after patch notes...
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 254	Posted - 2014.02.01 11:42:00 - [5] - Quote Delta90212 wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: You and your crew are notorious for stomping! GTFO. Why the hate? Because of his first line on this thread.... "As I've said before, I'm so very tired of the constant stomping and can't really see any better way of upping the action" Pot calling the kettle black me thinks.
Piraten Hovnoret Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 264	Posted - 2014.02.01 11:52:00 - [6] - Quote King my friend There is players in your corp that has over one biljon isk. Here is a sugestion for you Lets have a full reset of isk and sp to level the play field. I suggested a removal af isk if you loose a game I now understand that can never happen sence that will only let people that already are way ahaed get even more bling into there wallets while the new plate base is struggling. If you realy want to do this game a fawor stop stomping take in noobs in your corp help them out insted of stomping them throw the grownd as you al are notorious 4 Best regards and with respect A friend War never changes
Haerr Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 201	Posted - 2014.02.01 11:54:00 - [7] - Quote KingBabar wrote: Conclusion: Isk payout and perhaps even skillpoints should be affected by winning or losing a battle. This difference should be large enough to matter. At least a 3 to 1 difference. Hopefully this will lead to a mental shift of the general community giving us back more intense and fun battles, and that is the most important improvement of Dust IMO. Keep ISK payout sort of levelled for the losing team because some of the newer players are still quite poor (<100mil). I would very much like there to be a severe reduction in SP payout for the losing team though. And no SP accumulation while in the redline or while in the respawn screen. And no payout at all for people going 0/0/0 with 0WPs. PUBs are atrocious at the moment and trying to get 2 squads willing to sync into Amarr/Caldari is generally to much of a hassle to even try. @CCP: Is the Cloaking Fields and Profile Dampeners reduction to Scan Profile stacking penalized when added together?
Haerr Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 201	Posted - 2014.02.01 11:54:00 - [8] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: King my friend There is players in your corp that has over one biljon isk. Here is a sugestion for you Lets have a full reset of isk and sp to level the play field. I suggested a removal af isk if you loose a game I now understand that can never happen sence that will only let people that already are way ahaed get even more bling into there wallets while the new plate base is struggling. If you realy want to do this game a fawor stop stomping take in noobs in your corp help them out insted of stomping them throw the grownd as you al are notorious 4 Best regards and with respect A friend No. Just no. @CCP: Is the Cloaking Fields and Profile Dampeners reduction to Scan Profile stacking penalized when added together?
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 1114	Posted - 2014.02.01 12:06:00 - [9] - Quote KingBabar wrote: Why don't you people try to better yourself? Why don't you form up, wait for each other and try to blitz the point from various angles? Are you really content with having an evasive doctrine vs any good team you play? Really? I think a lot of guys are too worried about loosing ISK and are unwilling to switch to cheaper fits to do battle and continue to improve their gun game. I'm not sure why as plenty of people out there run cheap fits often and do extremely well.... and then there is saving the KDR that you mentioned. And for whatever reason people don't squad as much as they should and lets face it, comm protocol is awful on most squads, even by veteran players.... most of it is just babbling/bitching when I run with random squads. And obviously finding good squad mates can be hard if you are in a small corp.... Redline is boring for both sides. Running smaller squads and crap gear as the stompers will likely help more than anything you do to try to convince the redberries to push out from the redline in cheaper fits.
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1710	Posted - 2014.02.01 12:08:00 - [10] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: Delta90212 wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: You and your crew are notorious for stomping! GTFO. Why the hate? Because of his first line on this thread.... "As I've said before, I'm so very tired of the constant stomping and can't really see any better way of upping the action" Pot calling the kettle black me thinks. Here we are actually doing an effort to reduse the stomp and by extension making it a more inclusive ga,e and you bring this up. Do you expect us to merely give our clones away? http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html

KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 940	Posted - 2014.02.01 12:12:00 - [11] - Quote Delta90212 wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: You and your crew are notorious for stomping! GTFO. Why the hate? Why not? This is New Eden.
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1711	Posted - 2014.02.01 12:14:00 - [12] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: King my friend There is players in your corp that has over one biljon isk. Here is a sugestion for you Lets have a full reset of isk and sp to level the play field. I suggested a removal af isk if you loose a game I now understand that can never happen sence that will only let people that already are way ahaed get even more bling into there wallets while the new plate base is struggling. If you realy want to do this game a fawor stop stomping , open your corp to them, help them out insted of stomping them throw the grownd as you al are notorious known 4 Best regards and with respect A friend There are already several corps in Dust dedicated to new players and their training, our corp is not one of them. We do have a trining corp, Rainbow Academy which have an open door polecy. In there people can join our pub chat and squad up with us for the learning experience. Getting payed for ringing means that I have to keep a certain level on the dudes and dudettes with the TRE tags. http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 1115	Posted - 2014.02.01 12:15:00 - [13] - Quote KingBabar wrote: Here we are actually doing an effort to reduse the stomp and by extension making it a more inclusive ga,e and you bring this up. Do you expect us to merely give our clones away? The truth of the matter is that if you are a vet player, with skills and are in a big/good corp and you and are not being challenged you really should be running small squads and your crappiest gear, if you are doing that already - great, if not your post rings hollow.
Teilka Darkmist 181	Posted - 2014.02.01 12:17:00 - [14] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: You and your crew are notorious for stomping! GTFO. If someone who's 'notorious for stomping' is coming out against it, doesn't thqt suggest that maybe there's a problem and that the person in question is, maybe, changing their attitude, trying to highlight something that's wrong and trying to help change it? By your standard, no-one would get out of prison because 'They've done it before so they'll always do it.' Maybe what it takes to curb stomping is for a former stomper to come up with the tactic against it. Of course what happens then is they try and share their solution and they get heckled by other players, so they think 'screw helping out' and go back to stomping, keeping their idea for whenever they need to use it to stop others from stomping them. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 940	Posted - 2014.02.01 12:18:00 - [15] - Quote Matticus Monk wrote: I think a lot of guys are too worried about loosing ISK and are unwilling to switch to cheaper fits to do battle and continue to improve their gun game. I'm not sure why as plenty of people out there run cheap fits often and do extremely well.... and then there is saving the KDR that you mentioned. -- snip -- CCP/Shanghai drastically reduced ISK payout sometime back. Now it is quite possible to lose a bunch of ISK when getting stomped by King Bad Mouth and his Proto Horde. So, just Red Line snipe pub stompers and try to get them to lose Proto/Officer gear. What is wrong with that? Until Dust514 has matchmaking all of this is a waste of time. There is no matchmaking beyond the battle academy and, to some extent, PC battles. So positioning himself as the reasonable one in this situation is actually a Troll. Something that is unwelcome down here in the dust. And so it goes.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 422	Posted - 2014.02.01 12:19:00 - [16] - Quote KingBabar wrote: Conclusion: Isk payout and perhaps even skillpoints should be affected by winning or losing a battle. This difference should be large enough to matter. At least a 3 to 1 difference. Hopefully this will lead to a mental shift of the general community giving us back more intense and fun battles, and that is the most important improvement of Dust IMO. I'm not aware of how it worked in MAG, but in Dust every time you die your financial situation worsens while that of the enemy improves. That means at a certain point of difficulty the most ISK-effective strategy is to stay far away from the battle and wait it out. You've suggested reducing the awarded ISK for losing a match. I'd counter that in such a case resistance to a loss is even less desirable than it is now. We should try to make people keep up the fight even if they know that they will lose the game, much like you described in your paragraph about your MAG-history. Confusingly that means the ISK payout should be higher the more you lose - which actually reminds me a lot of the ship-replacement programs in Eve, coming to think about it. In my humble opinion, if losing a match awarded even less of a payout we'd see the quality of games deteriorate even further. Most matches are decided within the first 2 minutes. After that time the best strategy for the losing team is to leave the game and queue for the next one. That may indeed be very fast-paced game you're suggesting here, but it may not be a whole lot of fun.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 1509	Posted - 2014.02.01 12:24:00 - [17] - Quote WARNING!!! Hypocrisy level > 9000 1.8 it's so secret that nobody know what will be in it, even after patch notes...
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 269	Posted - 2014.02.01 12:25:00 - [18] - Quote It's a pub match and this entire game is a grind. Maybe they were simply ISK +sp grinding? Didn't want to lose anymore money? Who cares? Why come on here and complain about winning? Don't worry, if I see you and your crew I match I'll make sure we stomp extra hard. Maybe this will be fun for you?
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1752	Posted - 2014.02.01 12:28:00 - [19] - Quote Ok so you want help stop protostomping by making Protostomping more profitable, what a brilliant idea I wonder why no-one thought of that before. The win loss ratio is fine already. Instead improve payout per warpoint. So doing something no matter how futile rewards you. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1794	Posted - 2014.02.01 12:47:00 - [20] - Quote Yeah...no. If it's a fair fight ill lose all the suits I need to to win, no question. When I'm carrying a team of randoms (and I ain't that good), I used to try to win, but losing 16 suits in a wholly futile effort is not fun for me, I don't have your billions of ill-gotten PC ISK, I can't afford to run proto (at all, much less 24/7), so that's not gonna happen. I could care less about my KDR but I'm not going broke in order to help the elite stomping corps have more fun at my expense. How about you spread the wealth around and give the little guys a chance to enter PC or not get farmed in pubs all day long before you get on your damn high horse and lecture the rest of us on our poor attitude. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.1 Amarr victor!

Kierkegaard Soren Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 181	Posted - 2014.02.01 12:50:00 - [21] - Quote King, I think what you're getting at here -and correct me if I'm wrong, but I did read all of that wal of text ;) - is "why don't scrubs use tactics and slowly scrub up to something better?" And the answer, roughly speaking, is gear, skill points and mechanics. Especially from equipment. Especially from scanners. I play a lot of solo, in a slow suit that's **** at frontline assault. I will flank entire groups and drop uplinks, assault point, provide covering fire. And all of it is often for naught if I come up your kind of corp, or Dunas, etc etc. Active scanners essentially killed tactics. Ambush? No. Flank? No. Stack the odds in your favour? They know. So no. Fit dampeners to get under them? Great, you just sacrificed hp to do that, hope you can melt that proto suits massive hp buffer with your advanced weapon before they turn around and melt you en masse! It just feels very futile these days. Case in point; I came up against one of your guys a few nights ago, he was trying to redline my team in a dom and we had one spawn point out of the redline that I was defending furiously because Christ, I hate being redlined. He had full proto fit, including that bastard proto rr. I would be scanned, found, killed. Spawn. Rinse, repeat. I had no counter, except to run. Hated it. Multiple blues would assail him. He would take them. He was, in fairness,very good. But the difference in effectiveness that gear and skill points provide is exponential, not incremental, when compared to what a guy who can only fit standard can bring to the field. Non vets are just outclassed in every respect. Sometimes, it's just less stress to redline snipe. I wish this wasn't the case. Tiercide for all things, damage reduction to weapons to tighten up TTK and some core mechanics need a solid kick up the arse. That's what we need to make people feel like they've always got a chance. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1711	Posted - 2014.02.01 12:50:00 - [22] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Ok so you want help stop protostomping by making Protostomping more profitable, what a brilliant idea I wonder why no-one thought of that before. The win loss ratio is fine already. Instead improve payout per warpoint. So doing something no matter how futile rewards you. Thats a good point actually. Changing payout will definately be a bonus for th dudes already winning most games.... A difference in skillpoint payout is probably better. And for WP? I dunno. It will mostly lead to even more equipment spam and various circkles of WP boosting. http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1711	Posted - 2014.02.01 12:53:00 - [23] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Yeah...no. If it's a fair fight ill lose all the suits I need to to win, no question. When I'm carrying a team of randoms (and I ain't that good), I used to try to win, but losing 16 suits in a wholly futile effort is not fun for me, I don't have your billions of ill-gotten PC ISK, I can't afford to run proto (at all, much less 24/7), so that's not gonna happen. I could care less about my KDR but I'm not going broke in order to help the elite stomping corps have more fun at my expense. How about you spread the wealth around and give the little guys a chance to enter PC or not get farmed in pubs all day long before you get on your damn high horse and lecture the rest of us on our poor attitude. If winning gains 3x as much as losing the rich will keep getting richer and the economy will get more and more broken and player retention will be even worse than it is now. You take away rewards for a loss and you destroy this game. Period. We don't have any PC districs and haven't had any except for a week long experiement. I dont sit on tons of isk because I've passively farmed them of PC. So there is no ill-gotten PC isk. Lets keep the facts straight. http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1711	Posted - 2014.02.01 12:59:00 - [24] - Quote Kierkegaard Soren wrote: King, I think what you're getting at here -and correct me if I'm wrong, but I did read all of that wal of text ;) - is "why don't scrubs use tactics and slowly scrub up to something better?" And the answer, roughly speaking, is gear, skill points and mechanics. Especially from equipment. Especially from scanners. I play a lot of solo, in a slow suit that's **** at frontline assault. I will flank entire groups and drop uplinks, assault point, provide covering fire. And all of it is often for naught if I come up your kind of corp, or Dunas, etc etc. Active scanners essentially killed tactics. Ambush? No. Flank? No. Stack the odds in your favour? They know. So no. Fit dampeners to get under them? Great, you just sacrificed hp to do that, hope you can melt that proto suits massive hp buffer with your advanced weapon before they turn around and melt you en masse! It just feels very futile these days. Case in point; I came up against one of your guys a few nights ago, he was trying to redline my team in a dom and we had one spawn point out of the redline that I was defending furiously because Christ, I hate being redlined. He had full proto fit, including that bastard proto rr. I would be scanned, found, killed. Spawn. Rinse, repeat. I had no counter, except to run. Hated it. Multiple blues would assail him. He would take them. He was, in fairness,very good. But the difference in effectiveness that gear and skill points provide is exponential, not incremental, when compared to what a guy who can only fit standard can bring to the field. Non vets are just outclassed in every respect. Sometimes, it's just less stress to redline snipe. I wish this wasn't the case. Tiercide for all things, damage reduction to weapons to tighten up TTK and some core mechanics need a solid kick up the arse. That's what we need to make people feel like they've always got a chance. You make several good points sir. On the point of the scanners I don't agree that much. Most of my fots are running with 2 proto dampeners these days. Yes thats at least a sacrifice of almost 200 HP, well worth it IMO. But then again, I can still have 700 HP on my suit so I guess the point is void. So we're back to splitting up this already tiny playerbase as the only viable sollution? Anyone got any better idea? http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1794	Posted - 2014.02.01 13:01:00 - [25] - Quote KingBabar wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Yeah...no. If it's a fair fight ill lose all the suits I need to to win, no question. When I'm carrying a team of randoms (and I ain't that good), I used to try to win, but losing 16 suits in a wholly futile effort is not fun for me, I don't have your billions of ill-gotten PC ISK, I can't afford to run proto (at all, much less 24/7), so that's not gonna happen. I could care less about my KDR but I'm not going broke in order to help the elite stomping corps have more fun at my expense. How about you spread the wealth around and give the little guys a chance to enter PC or not get farmed in pubs all day long before you get on your damn high horse and lecture the rest of us on our poor attitude. If winning gains 3x as much as losing the rich will keep getting richer and the economy will get more and more broken and player retention will be even worse than it is now. You take away rewards for a loss and you destroy this game. Period. We don't have any PC districs and haven't had any except for a week long experiement. I dont sit on tons of isk because I've passively farmed them of PC. So there is no ill-gotten PC isk. Lets keep the facts straight. Fair enough, some of what I said admittedly is a little generalized and may not specifically apply to you, but I stand by my base argument that you are blaming the wrong people. The one group you should not implicate in one sided battles are the hapless stompees. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.1 Amarr victor!
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 1120	Posted - 2014.02.01 13:04:00 - [26] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: Matticus Monk wrote: I think a lot of guys are too worried about loosing ISK and are unwilling to switch to cheaper fits to do battle and continue to improve their gun game. I'm not sure why as plenty of people out there run cheap fits often and do extremely well.... and then there is saving the KDR that you mentioned. -- snip -- CCP/Shanghai drastically reduced ISK payout sometime back. Now it is quite possible to lose a bunch of ISK when getting stomped by King Bad Mouth and his Proto Horde. So, just Red Line snipe pub stompers and try to get them to lose Proto/Officer gear. What is wrong with that? Until Dust514 has matchmaking all of this is a waste of time. There is no matchmaking beyond the battle academy and, to some extent, PC battles. So positioning himself as the reasonable one in this situation is actually a Troll. Something that is unwelcome down here in the dust. And so it goes. I haven't lost a ton of ISK running 5k fits against proto stompers, ever. I'd need to die like 15-20 times to break even... and as I said, a lot of guys are unwilling to switch to cheaper fits and risk their KDR in a situation like this. When I'm willing to push objectives on the field it has helped my strategy, gun-game, sneakiness, etc... at the expense of my ISK and KDR. (I'm not thanking these guys, they are still try-hard, cry-baby, pansy-ass tools who I don't respect even an ounce). Personally I used to just leave the battle and find another as I'd have more fun than sitting in the redline or getting stomped. I have to admit it would be pretty satisfying to head shot some of those proto chumps; I didn't say there is anything wrong with this. I said "I think a lot of guys are too worried about loosing ISK and are unwilling to switch to cheaper fits to do battle and continue to improve their gun game." I didn't say that staying in the redline was bad or "wrong". It's the choice you make and a lot of guys make the same choice for the reasons I stated and until the proto stomping tones down, this is the choice a lot of folks will continue to make. And, I support it, honestly, because it makes dudes like the OP take notice. So, proto-chumps: show us your real skill you baby-faced, snot nosed, security blanket using limp daisies and bring us a real battle. But you'll get your **** handed to you. I know plenty of scouts that would easily tear you to ribbons using standard gear and militia weapons....
Shadow Archeus OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 260	Posted - 2014.02.01 13:05:00 - [27] - Quote I believe that winning a match should yield more isk while losing should give some more sp..... Kind of like your character learning from mistakes in battle I don't know much about the payout system but if wp is used to calculate isk AND so then I propose the following Winning rewards 50% more isk from wp Losing rewards 50% more sp from wp Real heavies use lasers
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1711	Posted - 2014.02.01 13:05:00 - [28] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: KingBabar wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Yeah...no. If it's a fair fight ill lose all the suits I need to to win, no question. When I'm carrying a team of randoms (and I ain't that good), I used to try to win, but losing 16 suits in a wholly futile effort is not fun for me, I don't have your billions of ill-gotten PC ISK, I can't afford to run proto (at all, much less 24/7), so that's not gonna happen. I could care less about my KDR but I'm not going broke in order to help the elite stomping corps have more fun at my expense. How about you spread the wealth around and give the little guys a chance to enter PC or not get farmed in pubs all day long before you get on your damn high horse and lecture the rest of us on our poor attitude. If winning gains 3x as much as losing the rich will keep getting richer and the economy will get more and more broken and player retention will be even worse than it is now. You take away rewards for a loss and you destroy this game. Period. We don't have any PC districs and haven't had any except for a week long experiement. I dont sit on tons of isk because I've passively farmed them of PC. So there is no ill-gotten PC isk. Lets keep the facts straight. Fair enough, some of what I said admittedly is a little generalized and may not specifically apply to you, but I stand by my base argument that you are blaming the wrong people. The one group you should not implicate in one sided battles are the stompees. Yeah well I don't agree. Its not like never play solo and come up against stacked teams, but be assured, that game will most likely hurt my KDR and Wallet, a lot. You'd still see me trying to take that point alone and failing over and over, its quite fun really. Anyways, in my OP I say that we were only 3 dudes. 3 Dudes vs teams with 6 man squads form the same corp and they start the battle with a defeatist attitude. Yes we're mostly good players in my corp, but we're no were near so good that a 3 man team can win a battle against another full squad of experienced players. So why the lack of even trying? http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1753	Posted - 2014.02.01 13:05:00 - [29] - Quote KingBabar wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Ok so you want help stop protostomping by making Protostomping more profitable, what a brilliant idea I wonder why no-one thought of that before. The win loss ratio is fine already. Instead improve payout per warpoint. So doing something no matter how futile rewards you. Thats a good point actually. Changing payout will definately be a bonus for th dudes already winning most games.... A difference in skillpoint payout is probably better. And for WP? I dunno. It will mostly lead to even more equipment spam and various circkles of WP boosting. While it is indeed a point, CCP have a global cap on WP earning. Equipment Spam is also a problem, but that can be solved with some additonal mechanics.But the point is if you want to encourage noobs to participate more, then no matter how often they loose they need to fill like they are being paid for the effort. There needs to be an opportunity that even though they lost they will get a decent payout, that encourages effort. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1714	Posted - 2014.02.01 13:13:00 - [30] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: You and your crew are notorious for stomping! GTFO. This It's funny how he's complaining about PRO stomping, yet he's the problem. I remember him saying how he wasn't going to play Dust anymore because they were nerfing contact grenades into the ground. Yet he's still here. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim

KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1711	Posted - 2014.02.01 13:23:00 - [31] - Quote Matticus Monk wrote: KalOfTheRathi wrote: [quote=Matticus Monk] (I'm not thanking these guys, they are still try-hard, cry-baby, pansy-ass tools who I don't respect even an ounce). So, proto-chumps: show us your real skill you baby-faced, snot nosed, security blanket using limp daisies and bring us a real battle. But you'll get your **** handed to you. I know plenty of scouts that would easily tear you to ribbons using standard gear and militia weapons.... Yeah yeah heard it all before. The funny thing is that this mentality seems to be the leading one for such a large part of the comunity. We've done test after test running cheaper fits with merely any difference in results. Teamwork, gungame and fighting spirit wins the battles, gear is merely the top of the iceberg. Actually I did another 10 game test 2 days ago. ( I do this from time to time, I play 10 games, solo in cheap fits and notice the scores to see how bad I'd play without team support and with cheap fits.) I ended up with more kills and a better KDR on average compared to my usual stats. Why? Well I played smart for once, no crazy stuff, and I didn't have 3 experienced dudes around me competing for the kills. I did it in a 35K isk enhanced suit with basic weapons. Best game was 40-4 and the worst was 13-5. I know I can play well without my fanzy gear, and no I still won't do it, protogear makes me able to play more recklessly and makes the game more fun cause a loss of 10 suits in a game sort of hurts. So take that "you need your crutch" attitude and stuff it. Do you really think that the dudes fighting at the top end in PC has no real skills and are merely being carried by their gear and skills? STFU http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1711	Posted - 2014.02.01 13:34:00 - [32] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: You and your crew are notorious for stomping! GTFO. This It's funny how he's complaining about PRO stomping, yet he's the problem. I remember him saying how he wasn't going to play Dust anymore because they were nerfing contact grenades into the ground. Yet he's still here. Quote me that forum post and I'll send you 100 mill isk. Yes I will do it. If not, please give me a formal appology for that statement. I'm the problem? Playing with my friends with the gear I've unlocked, currently trying to reduce the stomping by going in with smaller groups and I'm the poblem? IMO guys like you are the problem. Experienced, got the skills, got the gear, got the isk. But still I see you hanging back and snipe with your tank while your team looses the battle. You should be carrying your team to victory, not be concerned with your own KDR and hide. My OP is not about the scrubs thats just left the academy. Its about the intermidiate to experienced players that should know better, and fight better, not bloody start the game with a defeatist attitude because 3 of the 16 on the enemy teams happens to be from a competitive corp.... In fact, you are a prime example of the lack of fighting spirit I see in so many battles.... And you're not exactly straight out of the academy.... http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 1121	Posted - 2014.02.01 13:49:00 - [33] - Quote KingBabar wrote: Matticus Monk wrote: KalOfTheRathi wrote: [quote=Matticus Monk] (I'm not thanking these guys, they are still try-hard, cry-baby, pansy-ass tools who I don't respect even an ounce). So, proto-chumps: show us your real skill you baby-faced, snot nosed, security blanket using limp daisies and bring us a real battle. But you'll get your **** handed to you. I know plenty of scouts that would easily tear you to ribbons using standard gear and militia weapons.... Yeah yeah heard it all before. The funny thing is that this mentality seems to be the leading one for such a large part of the comunity. We've done test after test running cheaper fits with merely any difference in results. Teamwork, gungame and fighting spirit wins the battles, gear is merely the top of the iceberg. Actually I did another 10 game test 2 days ago. ( I do this from time to time, I play 10 games, solo in cheap fits and notice the scores to see how bad I'd play without team support and with cheap fits.) I ended up with more kills and a better KDR on average compared to my usual stats. Why? Well I played smart for once, no crazy stuff, and I didn't have 3 experienced dudes around me competing for the kills. I did it in a 35K isk enhanced suit with basic weapons. Best game was 40-4 and the worst was 13-5. I know I can play well without my fanzy gear, and no I still won't do it, protogear makes me able to play more recklessly and makes the game more fun cause a loss of 10 suits in a game sort of hurts. So take that "you need your crutch" attitude and stuff it. Do you really think that the dudes fighting at the top end in PC has no real skills and are merely being carried by their gear and skills? STFU LOL! Sensitive there, big guy. Did I hit a nerve? If any of your statements were true, and gear really didn't make the difference, I wouldn't see so many babies using it in full squads. You did "experiments" supposedly? Wow, good for you.... and you learned that it doesn't make a difference? Then don't use it when you and your proto stomping friends run your proposed smaller squads.... simple. Till you do that you're blowing hot-air, dude. And BTW - if you feel my statements don't apply to YOU specifically, you don't have to include yourself as a "Proto-Chump"... But I'm sure if this was the case you wouldn't have responded. If you're not being challenged, you need to KEEP handicapping yourself until you are challenged. Simple concept dude... gear is one variable in this equation, apparently one you are unwilling to adjust because it apparently doesn't factor into things at all.... mathematically, all that extra PG/CPU, extra slot - sure... whatever. you use it as a crutch yourself, you admitted being able to play more recklessly with it instead of playing smart.... Man, you are a piece of work, dude. LOL!
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1753	Posted - 2014.02.01 13:51:00 - [34] - Quote KingBabar wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: You and your crew are notorious for stomping! GTFO. This It's funny how he's complaining about PRO stomping, yet he's the problem. I remember him saying how he wasn't going to play Dust anymore because they were nerfing contact grenades into the ground. Yet he's still here. Quote me that forum post and I'll send you 100 mill isk. Yes I will do it. If not, please give me a formal appology for that statement. I'm the problem? Playing with my friends with the gear I've unlocked, currently trying to reduce the stomping by going in with smaller groups and I'm the poblem? IMO guys like you are the problem. Experienced, got the skills, got the gear, got the isk. But still I see you hanging back and snipe with your tank while your team looses the battle. You should be carrying your team to victory, not be concerned with your own KDR and hide. My OP is not about the scrubs thats just left the academy. Its about the intermidiate to experienced players that should know better, and fight better, not bloody start the game with a defeatist attitude because 3 of the 16 on the enemy teams happens to be from a competitive corp.... In fact, you are a prime example of the lack of fighting spirit I see in so many battles.... And you're not exactly straight out of the academy.... Please don't give Spkr any more money we don't need to fuel his tank habit. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 1518	Posted - 2014.02.01 13:57:00 - [35] - Quote Come on, i've played against your team yesterday with my alt, don't try to lie, you were just proto stomping like you always do, one guy was playing with an almighty gar21 balac, then you come here on the forums and play the part of the offended. Play without your team if you can, it's always EZ and boring when matchmaking put another full squad with you and squad. 1.8 it's so secret that nobody know what will be in it, even after patch notes...
Import Beercase Beer For Evil Mercs 111	Posted - 2014.02.01 13:59:00 - [36] - Quote Dear KingB Your starting Experience in Mag is same as my and my squads history in dust. Starting from the bottom and slowly getting up. We do play with full squad if we can. Our way of playing is a bit different than most squads. We try to help team by deploying uplinks and hives and destroying vehicles. Sacrificing our clones to keep kick-ass players from killing our blueberries. I would like to thank you and your friends who give us some awesome rounds in public domination. We are having fun and I hope we can offer you a nice match.. Just watch out for those forge shots =ƒÿè "If at first you don't succeed, mccdiving is not for you." Snowflake in hell those are my odds in ambush
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1714	Posted - 2014.02.01 14:01:00 - [37] - Quote KingBabar wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: You and your crew are notorious for stomping! GTFO. This It's funny how he's complaining about PRO stomping, yet he's the problem. I remember him saying how he wasn't going to play Dust anymore because they were nerfing contact grenades into the ground. Yet he's still here. Quote me that forum post and I'll send you 100 mill isk. Yes I will do it. If not, please give me a formal appology for that statement. I'm the problem? Playing with my friends with the gear I've unlocked, currently trying to reduce the stomping by going in with smaller groups and I'm the poblem? IMO guys like you are the problem. Experienced, got the skills, got the gear, got the isk. But still I see you hanging back and snipe with your tank while your team looses the battle. You should be carrying your team to victory, not be concerned with your own KDR and hide. My OP is not about the scrubs thats just left the academy. Its about the intermidiate to experienced players that should know better, and fight better, not bloody start the game with a defeatist attitude because 3 of the 16 on the enemy teams happens to be from a competitive corp.... In fact, you are a prime example of the lack of fighting spirit I see in so many battles.... And you're not exactly straight out of the academy.... I'm not searching back that far, and I don't need your ISK. I have over 300,000,000 myself. Nor will I give you an apology. I remember you making a giant crybaby thread when CCP said they were nerfing the contact grenades. Right now you're probably in the process of finding it yourself, so you can delete everything as "proof" that you never made such a thread. How do you know what I'm thinking about when I'm tanking? I want to keep me and my squad alive, that's what I care about. In PC, it's all-in for the win. In pub matches, it doesn't bother me whether the team loses or not. If my squad and I do well, that's good enough for me. If the team wins, that's even better. Often enough now, it's a few tankers carrying the whole team on our shoulders. Me and Taka turned a game around by placing less than 20 uplinks. That's 2 tankers using a gasp vehicle to help the team. Are you surprised by that? ^^^ I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1796	Posted - 2014.02.01 14:04:00 - [38] - Quote KingBabar wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: KingBabar wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Yeah...no. If it's a fair fight ill lose all the suits I need to to win, no question. When I'm carrying a team of randoms (and I ain't that good), I used to try to win, but losing 16 suits in a wholly futile effort is not fun for me, I don't have your billions of ill-gotten PC ISK, I can't afford to run proto (at all, much less 24/7), so that's not gonna happen. I could care less about my KDR but I'm not going broke in order to help the elite stomping corps have more fun at my expense. How about you spread the wealth around and give the little guys a chance to enter PC or not get farmed in pubs all day long before you get on your damn high horse and lecture the rest of us on our poor attitude. If winning gains 3x as much as losing the rich will keep getting richer and the economy will get more and more broken and player retention will be even worse than it is now. You take away rewards for a loss and you destroy this game. Period. We don't have any PC districs and haven't had any except for a week long experiement. I dont sit on tons of isk because I've passively farmed them of PC. So there is no ill-gotten PC isk. Lets keep the facts straight. Fair enough, some of what I said admittedly is a little generalized and may not specifically apply to you, but I stand by my base argument that you are blaming the wrong people. The one group you should not implicate in one sided battles are the stompees. Yeah well I don't agree. Its not like I never play solo and come up against stacked teams, but be assured, that game will most likely hurt my KDR and Wallet, a lot. You'd still see me trying to take that point alone and failing over and over, its quite fun really. Anyways, in my OP I say that we were only 3 dudes. 3 Dudes vs teams with 6 man squads form the same corp and they start the battle with a defeatist attitude. Yes we're mostly good players in my corp, but we're no were near so good that a 3 man team can win a battle against another full squad of experienced players. So why the lack of even trying? I guess I misread the OP somewhat, you got me there. If you were on the "minority" side then I would agree there is no excuse for a full squad from a decent corp to not try. I gladly take my lumps in an effort to get better if I at least have a sporting chance, my KDR will attest to that. But in the larger picture I'll give 2 ideas on how to "fix" things, one for CCP, the other a different "change in mentality" for the community. 1) For CCP: Matchmaking for fucks sake. Q syncing in pubs should be next to impossible. There should also never be 2 squads on one side and none on the other. 2) For the players: keep proto out of pubs. Yes, king, I know that good players will still be good with lower tier gear, that's one of the two classic tryhard arguments in favor or protostomping. And yes, it is 100% true for highly skilled players like you - but not all, there are plenty who need their proto crutch to succeed. BUT, if that's the case, then why do you do it? If you need somewhere to spend your money, go to FW; run all the proto you want there, and as a bonus there is plenty of challenge to be had fighting for Amarr and especially Caldari (I speak from experience, I have lost much ISK in the the Empress' name.) (As to the second classic proto argument, I earned the gear I can use it all I want, then, well fine, but don't complain that pubs are so one sided or ever ever ever lecture CCP about how they botch the NPE because you are part of the problem, not the solution.) "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.1 Amarr victor!
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 523	Posted - 2014.02.01 14:09:00 - [39] - Quote o7 King Babar I like the idea of you guys only running 3 or 4 in pub squads I can understand why guys play you with a 'defeatist' attitude coming up against 6 Rainbow's can ruin anyones day ... Games may improve for you guys if you stick to this system for now you have to remember that the playerbase fears you.. You guys can all go 20+ kills with little deaths, and in dust If there is proto on one side and not on the other, there is no fight just a quick stomp as one side is usually too stacked Good stuff though, the 3 man-squads do work and will have those 3 players coordinating much better after a while Minmatar Demolitions Specialist Plasma Cannon Pro
Drud Green Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 209	Posted - 2014.02.01 14:20:00 - [40] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: o7 King Babar I like the idea of you guys only running 3 or 4 in pub squads I can understand why guys play you with a 'defeatist' attitude coming up against 6 Rainbow's can ruin anyones day ... Games may improve for you guys if you stick to this system for now you have to remember that the playerbase fears you.. You guys can all go 20+ kills with little deaths, and in dust If there is proto on one side and not on the other, there is no fight just a quick stomp as one side is usually too stacked Good stuff though, the 3 man-squads do work and will have those 3 players coordinating much better after a while The player base fears them? lol i bet alot of people feel sorry for them. lol fear them lol

Import Beercase Beer For Evil Mercs 111	Posted - 2014.02.01 14:27:00 - [41] - Quote Drud Green wrote: TheD1CK wrote: o7 King Babar I like the idea of you guys only running 3 or 4 in pub squads I can understand why guys play you with a 'defeatist' attitude coming up against 6 Rainbow's can ruin anyones day ... Games may improve for you guys if you stick to this system for now you have to remember that the playerbase fears you.. You guys can all go 20+ kills with little deaths, and in dust If there is proto on one side and not on the other, there is no fight just a quick stomp as one side is usually too stacked Good stuff though, the 3 man-squads do work and will have those 3 players coordinating much better after a while The player base fears them? lol i bet alot of people feel sorry for them. lol fear them lol Well I play around 5-15 dominations per night and I see a lot how the blueberries \ some corporate squads behave.. I do call it fear that there is no blue drop links and 60% are sniping... 3 minutes after the round has started. Not many names can do that. But this is my experience from EU time games in domination. I am too drunk or stupid to try and take them out with inferior skills. I can wear the same suits but where is the fun in that. F*ck kdr lets play and have FUN "If at first you don't succeed, mccdiving is not for you." Snowflake in hell those are my odds in ambush
Mad Syringe Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 58	Posted - 2014.02.01 14:35:00 - [42] - Quote There is only one thing that would end the proto gear spam in pub matches! Reduce WP payout for killing clones with lower level suits and weapons! If you look at it, the most proto stomping happens after skill bonus reset on wednsday after downtime and the following 2 days. That means, the proto tryhards are mostly interested in SP, because lets face it they're isk rich as Fvck anyway. So to get them to use lesser gear, just reduce the payout for proto stomping wp wise. As in any RPG you should'nt get the same sp for killing different tier equipment/suits. If you stomp militia fits in your shiny proto suits, you'll net only 25 wp. If you kill protos in your militia fits, you'll net 75 wp. If the suits are similar, you'll get the standard 50 wp. And by the way, killing infantry with a tank should net only 15 wp, since there is no effort involved anyway! This would make sure, that all proto guys would go milita, because the only thing they lust for is sp anyway... Problem solved... It would still be a lot of stomping going on, but with good gungame and tactics, you'd have a better chance of winning those games. In the past I've played most if not every game "all in" which doesn't mean to pull proto, but to try as hard as I can to win these games. That came with a lot of isk loss, which in the long run is not sustainable. The only way of making isk, and to at least afford advanced suits, is to run ambush matches and keep out of the worst trouble (fights) especcially if you run against dunas tank scrubs. It's a broken game mode anyway, so as long as I run on my own I couldn't care less about the outcome, as long as I go isk positive. There is no incentive in the long run to go all in against squads, who can easily afford all proto, and usually have good to very good gungame on top of it. You do not make enough money to invest in those battles. In EVE, you can do PVE to grind isk, and that's what even the vets do (incursions). In Dust, the only way to stay isk positive, is to stay out of trouble in those proto stomp matches. I don't like it, but I changed to holding back too, since I can't afford to go 2/15 in those matches. And there is no point in going Militia against good proto squads, since the only thing top corps care about these days is a kdr above 2,0 to join their ranks. To be honest, the top corps have brought this problem to the game, so it's up to them to fix it! If you guys point your finger on the noobs and low level corps, you just don't get it!
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 269	Posted - 2014.02.01 14:35:00 - [43] - Quote If CCP would incentivize actions that lead to winning, more. And cut out passive ISK + sp gains then regardless of win or loss people will play for points. The X factor in this scenario is would you use your ISK and sp gains to help win, or simply farm? Uplinks and hacking would be great for WP, if there was a direct correlation between playing to win and payouts it would make sense. People that can sit in a redline or mcc, plink away with a sniper, go 4-0 In a 15 min Dom with 300 or less WP should net hardly any payout. However, the guy that goes 15-13 with 1000+ should see a noticeable difference in sp and ISK payouts. ISK should scale incrementally with "things done on the field of play"'. Logis get WP for logi-ing, slayers for slaying. Risk = reward. You reward skill, or try hards. Either way you incentivize winning while making growth and progress slow for those who choose to contribute less to " the cause".
Zirzo Valcyn Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 66	Posted - 2014.02.01 14:38:00 - [44] - Quote the problem lies with the game. there is no incentive to tryhard. loosing isk and grinding it is not something that makes you say "oh i wanna risk it all just for fun". your not rewarded that much for performing better than the guy that goes afk. the fact that players should try harder because of ethical reasons doesn't cut it and ethics don't fuel any battles- more SP rewarded does. but CCPs stance is not to reward you much more for tryharder than the next guy. u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll.
Ansiiis The Trustworthy Mocking Bird Inc. 671	Posted - 2014.02.01 14:40:00 - [45] - Quote So it took you this long to realize that? And 2-4 guys? I know how some of the Rainbows play and you still need 2-4 guys playing in proto ? You think that will make a difference - it is too late. The game would have been so much more successful if there were less stomping. Shield of Cat Merc. (again)
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1467	Posted - 2014.02.01 14:43:00 - [46] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: King my friend There is players in your corp that has over one biljon isk. Here is a sugestion for you Lets have a full reset of isk and sp to level the play field. I suggested a removal af isk if you loose a game I now understand that can never happen sence that will only let people that already are way ahaed get even more bling into there wallets while the new plate base is struggling. If you realy want to do this game a fawor stop stomping , open your corp to them, help them out insted of stomping them throw the grownd as you al are notorious known 4 Best regards and with respect A friend Uh, No. I mean, I could agree to a full Isk/PC reset, but as far as SP, it isn't my fault that you didn't get involved during open beta. I've been here since closed beta and we had to reset at the beginning of open beta so that things would be more "fair" for the newcomers. I can understand that since all of the prior gains had been while testing the game. However, since the beginning of open beta, anyone could have played the game, it was up to them if they wanted to or not. Granted, if they didn't have a PS3, they couldn't though that is still no excuse for me to have spent the last just over a year grinding SP just so some nub could whine and I'd need to start over from 0 SP. Skill Point system isn't broken, PC however, is horribly broken. PC has skewed so many wallets that it isn't even funny, it has been gamed and manipulated by those involved in it since PC Day 1. This has created a disparity in wealth that will prove to be nothing if not detrimental to the game's longterm health. IDK if I am even cool with a 100% Isk reset, many of us have been playing the game for 2 years or nearly so. We've put in our dues and should have something to show for it. Perhaps, a 100% Isk reset would be a good start, then disburse to each player 1m ISK per day since they've joined (tracking as far back as to day 1 of the open beta). Add on top of that, 10m for each iteration of Uprising we were present for, 100m if we were present for day one of Uprising and 250m if we were here for day one of the open beta. Even then, I know that there are those who would ***** even if they were one of the "full disbursement" crowd (i.e. here since day one of the open beta). @Babar While I will concede that there are many things broken about matchmaking and actual "in match" mechanics, I have to believe that you have no one to blame more than yourself (used in the general to denote players who are notorious for stomping) for the situation you have created. How can you truly expect people to not behave the way that they do against stomping corps? I mean, blueballing your enemy is a legitimate tactic in New Eden. Another thing you need to consider, this isn't MAG man, this is Dust. There are no definitive bonuses/penalties for winning/losing here aside from W/LR. There are no "Shadow War Contracts" that will exchange hands and provide a significant advantage to the holder. Do I think that some of these things need to change? Yes. Do I want CCP to scrap Dust and just reboot MAG? No. However, that having been stated, I do think that there are some things that CCP could take from MAG as improvements to the overall game. 1) Cease allowing us to spawn on Objectives in all gamemodes. There should be specific set spawn points for each side as well as Drop Uplinks which can be custom placed by players and CRU's which can be hacked by either team. 2) When we are the Attackers, we should be attacking and we should hold nothing on the field aside from our footspawn and the MCC spawn. When Defending, we should hold everything on the field until the Attackers have destroyed it or seized control of it (in which case we can always hack it back). 3) Change the payout for losing. As it is now, the losers still get a cookie for showing up. They shouldn't get a cookie, they should get maybe some crumbs but nothing more, slant ISK payouts towards the winners 85/15. Give more gravity to winning the match. Give us standings for the other NPC corps aside from the Militia corps and adjust our ISK payouts accordingly taking into consideration the NPC corps we are working for (multiply our individual payouts by 1.XX where XX is equal to our X.X standing with the corporation). If our standings are low enough for a particular corp, we will not be queued into matches for them since they'd rather spit on us rather than employ us. 4) Add a method by which System Security Status is accounted for and which blocks the use certain equipment for those matches (i.e. metalevel based entry restrictions) as well as blue-on-blue fire. If I go into a match in a 0.7, I can't use as wide a variety of equipment (nor will my bluefire register) as I can if I go into a match in a 0.2 (where my bluefire will register). 5) Allow squads to be loaded into battles, though there should be no "No Squad" guys as well as no "Locking" mechanic for squads. Anyone who is a solo rambo should be loaded into preformed squads if there are no squads on the team with room for anyone. This will incentivize grouping up since no one will want to be forced to squad with John Rando who spins in circles in the MCC while blaring Rick Astley over comms. Implement these changes and watch the battlefield dynamics change for the better. Incentivize fighting and people will fight, hand out cookies and milk to all and give everyone a pat on the back and a "good work, try better, you'll get it next time" at the end of the battle and watch people blueball their enemies and pull stupid **** instead of staying focused. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 263	Posted - 2014.02.01 14:46:00 - [47] - Quote Teilka Darkmist wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: You and your crew are notorious for stomping! GTFO. If someone who's 'notorious for stomping' is coming out against it, doesn't thqt suggest that maybe there's a problem and that the person in question is, maybe, changing their attitude, trying to highlight something that's wrong and trying to help change it? By your standard, no-one would get out of prison because 'They've done it before so they'll always do it.' Maybe what it takes to curb stomping is for a former stomper to come up with the tactic against it. Of course what happens then is they try and share their solution and they get heckled by other players, so they think 'screw helping out' and go back to stomping, keeping their idea for whenever they need to use it to stop others from stomping them. That said, you can't come out against stomping and keep doing it and expect anyone to take you seriously. Match deeds to words and people will take notice. But he is not coming out against it at all. Why are people standing up for this guy? Ok let me break it down for you all. The OP - while recently he may or may not have had a change of heart, for months if not more - he has had his squad mates with him running full proto. Smashing individual noobs and casual players that should or should not be squad'ed up. That's fine, that's within the game for him to do if he so chooses. What I am saying is - he has made his bed now he must lie in it. He is here complaining about lack of competition. Maybe if he did the unthinkable and used some starter fits or some standard gear he would get that competition he is after - just like the other 80% of the player base does. This character is a tanker, on my main I have the sp and the skills to run full proto but I chose to use militia and standard gear. I have recently come to the conclusion militia forge full militia fits are the most effective way of dealing with proto. They can kill me probably 100 times before I make any sort of loss and if I kill them just one single time, I win in the isk efficiency department. My REAL problem is, people have been warning about the downsides to these kind of people proto stomping for months and months, now they are starting to see the problem for themselves and they are like: "oo err, guys we need to do something about this".
Mad Syringe Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 59	Posted - 2014.02.01 14:56:00 - [48] - Quote By the way, since I recently started to play eve (wanted to know what's going on with OBs etc.). I found out, that eve is basically a game that favors ganking over everything else. What does that mean? In EVE, you tend to make sure you have way higher firepower then the opponent, before you engage. If you haven't you just run away. In that regard, dust has managed to do exactly that, one side is always superior to the other. So the odds of turning a battle in your favor, are minimal at best in an average pub stomp game. There is the rare balanced one which can be a lot of fun, but mainly its an unbalanced stomp. Maybe that is what the devs want, but I doubt that the average console jockey likes that... Whenever this game gets fully integrated into eve, it will be even worse. In PC the EVE side will dictate the outcome of matches. It won't be our pathetic kdr or anything, it will be economic values that dictate the outcome of battles. Expect to be anihilated by obital strikes from Titans, that devastate a planet in a way that makes terraforming necessary afterwards. Good luck with gungame and Proto suits against that...
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1714	Posted - 2014.02.01 15:03:00 - [49] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Come on, i've played against your team yesterday with my alt, don't try to lie, you were just proto stomping like you always do, one guy was playing with an almighty gar21 balac, then you come here on the forums and play the part of the offended. Play without your team if you can, it's always EZ and boring when matchmaking put another full squad with you and squad. Yeah well granted. We did play for 2-3 hours as a 3 man team. Later on (I was getting seriously drunk and ended with a 10-8 game vs nobody and called it a night) before that point we did indeed roll with 4 and then 5. This is a notorious problem. You are 3 in squad and after a batlle you see this single dude in your cop not having any to play with. You shrugit off and play another game and after the game the same dude is still waiting for someone to play with. So your squad gets filled eventually. And I've stated that we do this, but it doesn't include all of us and definately not all the time. Calling me out as a liar because you saw me in a game with a full squad was uncalled for. http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2352	Posted - 2014.02.01 15:06:00 - [50] - Quote OP does nothing but pub stomp OP then complains about pub stomps OP is complaining at himself lol Intelligence is OP

Teilka Darkmist 185	Posted - 2014.02.01 15:22:00 - [51] - Quote Mad Syringe wrote: By the way, since I recently started to play eve (wanted to know what's going on with OBs etc.). I found out, that eve is basically a game that favors ganking over everything else. What does that mean? In EVE, you tend to make sure you have way higher firepower then the opponent, before you engage. If you haven't you just run away. In that regard, dust has managed to do exactly that, one side is always superior to the other. So the odds of turning a battle in your favor, are minimal at best in an average pub stomp game. There is the rare balanced one which can be a lot of fun, but mainly its an unbalanced stomp. Maybe that is what the devs want, but I doubt that the average console jockey likes that... Whenever this game gets fully integrated into eve, it will be even worse. In PC the EVE side will dictate the outcome of matches. It won't be our pathetic kdr or anything, it will be economic values that dictate the outcome of battles. Expect to be anihilated by obital strikes from Titans, that devastate a planet in a way that makes terraforming necessary afterwards. Good luck with gungame and Proto suits against that... That's a huge generalisation about eve players tending to make sure they have way higher firepower than the other side. It depends on who you're with and what you're doing. I know there are plenty of players who go out solo or in small gangs and aren't afraid to engage even when numerically they're outmatched. Because it's not just about the numbers on a small fight, it's about player skill as well, gauging when to overheat your modules, or switch your ammo, when to move in closer or back away. Sure, the blob fights may be more about sheer numbers, I don't know, in 7 years I've never been in one. And yes, they're what get all the press, but it's the smaller gang and solo pilots who get fights more consistently. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1714	Posted - 2014.02.01 15:28:00 - [52] - Quote Too many feedbacks to ansver all individually, but let me say this: - Some of you come here with amazingly positive attitudes, I've liked your posts so you'll know who I'm talking about. I really love the underdog "lets fight it out as best we can" attitude. I'm sure that if a larger part of the community had this attitude us protostompers would lose enough suits to really fell that isk loss. There is nothing as easy as fighting an enemy with a defeatist attitude. - We've also seen many good ideas to fix this issue. I especially like the one post about limiting the passive ingame WP gain according to meta level of your fit. In essense, a miiltia fit killing a proto fit will gain lots of WPs, a proto fit killing a militia fit would gain very little WP. This off course will only work while changing the ingame passive skillpoint gain. Now you get 1 SP per WP and 5 SP per second spent in a battle. (I think). Redusing or indeed removing the passive SP gain in battles with no WP gain behind the redline would give ample incentive for poeple to actually get out and fight. - Yes perhaps I lie in the bed I was a part of making. Giving the beta vets isk for all their accumulated salvage on release was the biggest mistale CCP did in this regard. I remember at the end of beta, I had about 70 M isk and had to alternate between enhanced and proto fits to stay isk positive. Then suddenly I have well over 300 M isk and no incentive what so ever to not use proto exclusively. So now almost a year later, I've more than doubbled my isk reserves and still see no incentive to use cheaper gear. Are proto gear simply too cheap? - And yes I could have run cheap fits all the time and my account would have 2 billion isk by now, whats the point of that? Me being a caldari logi there really isn't that much to gain in the form of combat efficiency (and here I mean the narrow sence, how good is it 1 vs 1?) between my enhanced and proto suit. I get gunned down by a militia AR in no time regardless of what suit I wear. I normally have the same HP, more shield on the proto and more armor on the enhanced. My protosuit is dampened but most importantly it has proto equipment which is the main reason I use it. I am a logi despite popular beliefs. I don't care what all the QQers who think they know me says on this matter, I just can't fit proto uplinks or proto hives or a proto sacnner on that enhanced suit without gimping it too much. I blame the unwarranted suit nerf that reduced the CPU amount of the cal logi http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1715	Posted - 2014.02.01 15:38:00 - [53] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: OP does nothing but pub stomp OP then complains about pub stomps OP is complaining at himself lol OP does much more than merely protostomp. There is lots of CBs (well not right now), and I've definately played my share of FW, mostly Caldari and Amarr. And then there is the various theme nights too... Op don't complain about pub stomps. I'm complaining about seasoned players like you, playing in a defensive manner not caring the slightest about winning or loosing, KDR seems to be more important. You were much more fun to play with or against in MAG, you used to care every game I played with you back then. You were an excellent platoon leader trying to fire up your side to stop those pesky SVER tryhards from taking our base. Lets drop everything else for a moment. What hapened to you dude? You used to be one of the guys I looked up to and I wanted to be as good as you back then. In Dust you've mostly been one of those morons staying at the outskirts taking potshots with you tank. I want the old, giving his all for the underdogs, never backing away from a fight EnglishSnake that we all respected in MAG. What happened to you dude? Is there any hope for seing the old you again? http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1126	Posted - 2014.02.01 15:58:00 - [54] - Quote KingBabar wrote: As I've said before, I'm so very tired of the constant stomping and can't really see any better way of upping the action than go in in small groups, mostly 2-4 dudes per squad. This way we can't be all over the battlefield, there will always be an unguarded point etc. This means that we most of the time have players on the field to fight and we don't have to stand on the redline. It also means we'll get some truly awsome fights when we're up against stacked teams. You know, FUN! So yeserday this is what we do. We're 3 players and we mostly played dom. And a trend was starting to reveal itself. Many corps and groups of players were "stuck in our queue", meaning that they were in our games for 2 hours more or less. So when put on our team they bring out their ARs, LAVs and playing the point and trying to win, nothing new about that. The next game, when facing us, they never even leave the redline. And here we're talking about 6 dudes from the same corp a corp thats been here since beta ffs, all bringing out their snipers to sort of spite us I believe. And yes I do indeed see the joy in that. Off course this leads to a very boring game for us and I would believe the other 10 dudes having their prime group of that battle not taking part. And this repeated itself more or less several times with various groups of players. I remember back in the early days of MAG, my first competitive shooter. I had a scrub clan, with scrubby players, myself included. We were normally very happy if we could do a game and not go negative KDR wise. So back then also, our little group of rag tag scrubs and houswives were set up against Q-synced teams from the best corps in the game. And what did we do? We faught them with nails and teeth. We played as tight as we could, pure combat updates/tactics on coms. In short: we did all that we could and tried to make our organization count towards beating players with way better gungame. Trying to get into 2 vs 1 scenarios. Trying to outflank and hit one spot with our 8 man squad etc. Naturally we mostly failed horribly. We got stomped over and over. Slowly but steadily our performance got better, we got respected and eventually became a factor in MAG. This was mostly the trend in MAG, most battles were filled with fierce competition, or at least thats what my rosie memories tell me.... This is far from the average situation in Dust. This goes for both the less skilled and the pro tryhards. I've been in group with and seen so many players with 5+ KDR leave battles or spawn back into the warbarge as soon as the fighting gets though. The scrubs hide out for different reasons than the tryhards, they're mstly interrested in saving that KDR, they can put up a fight but just can't be bothered. Both of these mentalitie doesn't go well with me. Fighting agaist better players, do you really think that its benefitial for your learning curve to: Stay at the redline sniping? Stay at some high point, a house or rail or whatever, taking the occational pot shot? You know popping your head up and shoot somone in the back while he's engaged in ground fighting... Same goes for the perifferee hero, sirkling the outskirts with a RR or Scr. Same goes for the logibro suddenly calling in a tank and drives aimlessly around. And so on. Why don't you people try to better yourself? Why don't you form up, wait for each other and try to blitz the point from various angles? Are you really content with having an evasive doctrine vs any good team you play? Really? IMO the Dust community is the worst I have seen in terms of player skill and cheap "lets make the game boring" tactics. Way too few try to fight the odds and improve their gungame and tactics, its just safer and better to get defensive, even if the current battlfield dictates that you'll attack or lose the game. Conclusion: Isk payout and perhaps even skillpoints should be affected by winning or losing a battle. This difference should be large enough to matter. At least a 3 to 1 difference. Hopefully this will lead to a mental shift of the general community giving us back more intense and fun battles, and that is the most important improvement of Dust IMO. So, when a bunch of tryhards ruin the game I am supposed to jump out and fight back like this little video game matters and I have to do it as if it is some kind of duty to my country? Sorry, did that in RL. I'm too old to measure myself by a video game. I sit back, drink beer and let the tryhard kiddies make me some isk. I should get isk for doing nothing. I play casual and the mechanics allow for an annoying set of circumstances. You ever read that sign that says,"There will be a $10 charge just for putting up with you"? Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2352	Posted - 2014.02.01 16:10:00 - [55] - Quote KingBabar wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: OP does nothing but pub stomp OP then complains about pub stomps OP is complaining at himself lol OP does much more than merely protostomp. There is lots of CBs (well not right now), and I've definately played my share of FW, mostly Caldari and Amarr. And then there is the various theme nights too... Op don't complain about pub stomps. I'm complaining about seasoned players like you, playing in a defensive manner not caring the slightest about winning or loosing, KDR seems to be more important. You were much more fun to play with or against in MAG, you used to care every game I played with you back then. You were an excellent platoon leader trying to fire up your side to stop those pesky SVER tryhards from taking our base. Lets drop everything else for a moment. What hapened to you dude? You used to be one of the guys I looked up to and I wanted to be as good as you back then. In Dust you've mostly been one of those morons staying at the outskirts taking potshots with you tank. I want the old, giving his all for the underdogs, never backing away from a fight EnglishSnake that we all respected in MAG. What happened to you dude? Is there any hope for seing the old you again? MAG was a completely different beast and cannot be compared to DUST because DUST is ** in comparision MAG had urgency, MAG had the modes, MAG had the leadership structure where i could be a on broadcast because why not, MAG had numbers where even in 128 players you could say 25% may have been useless but the rest could carry and even in DUST me n spkr have had games where we control with tanks sat at the point and even jumped out to put links down but yet no infantry will hack the point or we have to do it but there is only 2 of us against the odds and on some maps it works but half the time it dont There is no point pushing for a win in DUST, not in pubs at least because the matchmaking where we get put against 2 6man groups with randoms, why bother? the team is and you will do is waste ISK for a bunch of muppets to fail and frankly i can spin in the MCC for 20min while i make a curry PC is where the fight counts not pubs, even in FW its a waste of time since its like pubs plus you waste ISK and get nothing back apart from a 70LP loss rewards and some salvage, even then PC is mostly but it changes it up from pubs and can have a sense of urgency DUST has no fight because its not needed, leadership is pointless because everyone is in there own squads and dont use teamchat or dont have a mic, the modes are simple but the players are too busy eating ice cream sandwiches MAG was something special, it was different, even lolshadow war was fun to a point DUST is no MAG so it doesnt need a MAG stance because in the end you are playing for you and you alone, ** everyone else Intelligence is OP
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 122	Posted - 2014.02.01 16:15:00 - [56] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: You and your crew are notorious for stomping! GTFO. Here is the problem, I've been a random sixth in a RE squad a couple of times, they were a nice, fun group. I've been on the other side of RE and they are proto stomping bitches. They just play the game like I do, trying to win, trying to do their best and from their perspective they aren't doing anything wrong. This is true of ML and other stomping corps as well. It is also making what is probably the worst aspect of Dust, worse. You can, and I do, ask people to change things up to make it fun and challenging for everyone, but there will always be guys who don't agree to abide by that ethos, and things will escalate until we are back to where we are now.
Drud Green Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 209	Posted - 2014.02.01 16:47:00 - [57] - Quote Import Beercase wrote: Drud Green wrote: TheD1CK wrote: o7 King Babar I like the idea of you guys only running 3 or 4 in pub squads I can understand why guys play you with a 'defeatist' attitude coming up against 6 Rainbow's can ruin anyones day ... Games may improve for you guys if you stick to this system for now you have to remember that the playerbase fears you.. You guys can all go 20+ kills with little deaths, and in dust If there is proto on one side and not on the other, there is no fight just a quick stomp as one side is usually too stacked Good stuff though, the 3 man-squads do work and will have those 3 players coordinating much better after a while The player base fears them? lol i bet alot of people feel sorry for them. lol fear them lol Well I play around 5-15 dominations per night and I see a lot how the blueberries \ some corporate squads behave.. I do call it fear that there is no blue drop links and 60% are sniping... 3 minutes after the round has started. Not many names can do that. But this is my experience from EU time games in domination. I am too drunk or stupid to try and take them out with inferior skills. I can wear the same suits but where is the fun in that. F*ck kdr lets play and have FUN That is not fear, that is trolling the big fish in the little puddle.
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 123	Posted - 2014.02.01 17:02:00 - [58] - Quote Teilka Darkmist wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: You and your crew are notorious for stomping! GTFO. If someone who's 'notorious for stomping' is coming out against it, doesn't thqt suggest that maybe there's a problem and that the person in question is, maybe, changing their attitude, trying to highlight something that's wrong and trying to help change it? By your standard, no-one would get out of prison because 'They've done it before so they'll always do it.' Maybe what it takes to curb stomping is for a former stomper to come up with the tactic against it. Of course what happens then is they try and share their solution and they get heckled by other players, so they think 'screw helping out' and go back to stomping, keeping their idea for whenever they need to use it to stop others from stomping them. That said, you can't come out against stomping and keep doing it and expect anyone to take you seriously. Match deeds to words and people will take notice. Amen. I've seen RE and ML both come out about this. It's a good thing, but nothing goes by without complaint and even if they change things up they need to realize not everyone will notice or accept that they have changed. It is all a matter of attitude and what is considered acceptable, having these corps recognizing the problem and encouraging their players to be aware of it can only be good. It isn't that hard, play hard until you can see you the writing on the wall, I usually know in the first minute if one team is outmatched, then switch to make it more challenging for yourself. It sucks that players have to work out a solution and can't just play their best, but that is the way it is.
Teilka Darkmist 190	Posted - 2014.02.01 17:08:00 - [59] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Teilka Darkmist wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: You and your crew are notorious for stomping! GTFO. If someone who's 'notorious for stomping' is coming out against it, doesn't thqt suggest that maybe there's a problem and that the person in question is, maybe, changing their attitude, trying to highlight something that's wrong and trying to help change it? By your standard, no-one would get out of prison because 'They've done it before so they'll always do it.' Maybe what it takes to curb stomping is for a former stomper to come up with the tactic against it. Of course what happens then is they try and share their solution and they get heckled by other players, so they think 'screw helping out' and go back to stomping, keeping their idea for whenever they need to use it to stop others from stomping them. That said, you can't come out against stomping and keep doing it and expect anyone to take you seriously. Match deeds to words and people will take notice. Amen. I've seen RE and ML both come out about this. It's a good thing, but nothing goes by without complaint and even if they change things up they need to realize not everyone will notice or accept that they have changed. It is all a matter of attitude and what is considered acceptable, having these corps recognizing the problem and encouraging their players to be aware of it can only be good. It isn't that hard, play hard until you can see you the writing on the wall, I usually know in the first minute if one team is outmatched, then switch to make it more challenging for yourself. It sucks that players have to work out a solution and can't just play their best, but that is the way it is. Nah, that's the New Eden way. Corps and Alliances in EVE are always coming up with new tactics to counter the old ones. Part of the reason for that, of course, is that CCP keep adding to and re-balancing the game. Which is only right imo. Even in RL, the military studies tactics and comes up with ways to improve on, or beat them. It's how you get better. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4319	Posted - 2014.02.01 17:11:00 - [60] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: King my friend There is players in your corp that has over one biljon isk. Here is a sugestion for you Lets have a full reset of isk and sp to level the play field. I suggested a removal af isk if you loose a game I now understand that can never happen sence that will only let people that already are way ahaed get even more bling into there wallets while the new plate base is struggling. If you realy want to do this game a fawor stop stomping , open your corp to them, help them out insted of stomping them throw the grownd as you al are notorious known 4 Best regards and with respect A friend I think you should be deported, from Earth.

Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 123	Posted - 2014.02.01 17:17:00 - [61] - Quote KingBabar wrote: Kierkegaard Soren wrote: King, I think what you're getting at here -and correct me if I'm wrong, but I did read all of that wal of text ;) - is "why don't scrubs use tactics and slowly scrub up to something better?" And the answer, roughly speaking, is gear, skill points and mechanics. Especially from equipment. Especially from scanners. I play a lot of solo, in a slow suit that's **** at frontline assault. I will flank entire groups and drop uplinks, assault point, provide covering fire. And all of it is often for naught if I come up your kind of corp, or Dunas, etc etc. Active scanners essentially killed tactics. Ambush? No. Flank? No. Stack the odds in your favour? They know. So no. Fit dampeners to get under them? Great, you just sacrificed hp to do that, hope you can melt that proto suits massive hp buffer with your advanced weapon before they turn around and melt you en masse! It just feels very futile these days. Case in point; I came up against one of your guys a few nights ago, he was trying to redline my team in a dom and we had one spawn point out of the redline that I was defending furiously because Christ, I hate being redlined. He had full proto fit, including that bastard proto rr. I would be scanned, found, killed. Spawn. Rinse, repeat. I had no counter, except to run. Hated it. Multiple blues would assail him. He would take them. He was, in fairness,very good. But the difference in effectiveness that gear and skill points provide is exponential, not incremental, when compared to what a guy who can only fit standard can bring to the field. Non vets are just outclassed in every respect. Sometimes, it's just less stress to redline snipe. I wish this wasn't the case. Tiercide for all things, damage reduction to weapons to tighten up TTK and some core mechanics need a solid kick up the arse. That's what we need to make people feel like they've always got a chance. You make several good points sir. On the point of the scanners I don't agree that much. Most of my fots are running with 2 proto dampeners these days. Yes thats at least a sacrifice of almost 200 HP, well worth it IMO. But then again, I can still have 700 HP on my suit so I guess the point is void. So we're back to splitting up this already tiny playerbase as the only viable sollution? Anyone got any better idea? This is funny, it is like a working class guy trying to explain to a millionaire that he can't just buy a new car because he can't afford to fix his old one. I don't have proto anything, your scanners WILL pick me up, then your proto rifle WILL kill me and I have nothing to stop you from doing it, pair that with less experience and familiarity with the maps and even if I'm otherwise as good as you are (which I doubt) then there isn't much I can do. Scanners take away most of the options that give me a chance to make a difference. If I drop an uplink, you see it. Try and surprise you, forget it.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 2884	Posted - 2014.02.01 17:24:00 - [62] - Quote KingBabar wrote: As I've said before, I'm so very tired of the constant stomping and can't really see any better way of upping the action than go in in small groups, mostly 2-4 dudes per squad. This way we can't be all over the battlefield, there will always be an unguarded point etc. This means that we most of the time have players on the field to fight and we don't have to stand on the redline. It also means we'll get some truly awsome fights when we're up against stacked teams. You know, FUN! So yeserday this is what we do. We're 3 players and we mostly played dom. And a trend was starting to reveal itself. Many corps and groups of players were "stuck in our queue", meaning that they were in our games for 2 hours more or less. So when put on our team they bring out their ARs, LAVs and playing the point and trying to win, nothing new about that. The next game, when facing us, they never even leave the redline. And here we're talking about 6 dudes from the same corp a corp thats been here since beta ffs, all bringing out their snipers to sort of spite us I believe. And yes I do indeed see the joy in that. Off course this leads to a very boring game for us and I would believe the other 10 dudes having their prime group of that battle not taking part. And this repeated itself more or less several times with various groups of players. I remember back in the early days of MAG, my first competitive shooter. I had a scrub clan, with scrubby players, myself included. We were normally very happy if we could do a game and not go negative KDR wise. So back then also, our little group of rag tag scrubs and houswives were set up against Q-synced teams from the best corps in the game. And what did we do? We faught them with nails and teeth. We played as tight as we could, pure combat updates/tactics on coms. In short: we did all that we could and tried to make our organization count towards beating players with way better gungame. Trying to get into 2 vs 1 scenarios. Trying to outflank and hit one spot with our 8 man squad etc. Naturally we mostly failed horribly. We got stomped over and over. Slowly but steadily our performance got better, we got respected and eventually became a factor in MAG. This was mostly the trend in MAG, most battles were filled with fierce competition, or at least thats what my rosie memories tell me.... This is far from the average situation in Dust. This goes for both the less skilled and the pro tryhards. I've been in group with and seen so many players with 5+ KDR leave battles or spawn back into the warbarge as soon as the fighting gets though. The scrubs hide out for different reasons than the tryhards, they're mstly interrested in saving that KDR, they can put up a fight but just can't be bothered. Both of these mentalitie doesn't go well with me. Fighting agaist better players, do you really think that its benefitial for your learning curve to: Stay at the redline sniping? Stay at some high point, a house or rail or whatever, taking the occational pot shot? You know popping your head up and shoot somone in the back while he's engaged in ground fighting... Same goes for the perifferee hero, sirkling the outskirts with a RR or Scr. Same goes for the logibro suddenly calling in a tank and drives aimlessly around. And so on. Why don't you people try to better yourself? Why don't you form up, wait for each other and try to blitz the point from various angles? Are you really content with having an evasive doctrine vs any good team you play? Really? IMO the Dust community is the worst I have seen in terms of player skill and cheap "lets make the game boring" tactics. Way too few try to fight the odds and improve their gungame and tactics, its just safer and better to get defensive, even if the current battlfield dictates that you'll attack or lose the game. Conclusion: Isk payout and perhaps even skillpoints should be affected by winning or losing a battle. This difference should be large enough to matter. At least a 3 to 1 difference. Hopefully this will lead to a mental shift of the general community giving us back more intense and fun battles, and that is the most important improvement of Dust IMO. You cannot and will not enforce, police, or encourage "honorable" play among the playerbase. People are going to play how they want to play. Soloists like myself are going to continue to solo. Nyain San are going to continue holding each others hands and tank zerging to compensate for their lack of individual skill. If you are looking to change the way the game is played then you have to change the core of the game itself, not the playerbase. You will not, ever, under any circumstances, change the playerbase.
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 2526	Posted - 2014.02.01 17:39:00 - [63] - Quote KingBabar wrote: As I've said before, I'm so very tired of the constant stomping and can't really see any better way of upping the action than go in in small groups, mostly 2-4 dudes per squad. This way we can't be all over the battlefield, there will always be an unguarded point etc. This means that we most of the time have players on the field to fight and we don't have to stand on the redline. It also means we'll get some truly awsome fights when we're up against stacked teams. You know, FUN! So yeserday this is what we do. We're 3 players and we mostly played dom. And a trend was starting to reveal itself. Many corps and groups of players were "stuck in our queue", meaning that they were in our games for 2 hours more or less. So when put on our team they bring out their ARs, LAVs and playing the point and trying to win, nothing new about that. The next game, when facing us, they never even leave the redline. And here we're talking about 6 dudes from the same corp a corp thats been here since beta ffs, all bringing out their snipers to sort of spite us I believe. And yes I do indeed see the joy in that. Off course this leads to a very boring game for us and I would believe the other 10 dudes having their prime group of that battle not taking part. And this repeated itself more or less several times with various groups of players. I remember back in the early days of MAG, my first competitive shooter. I had a scrub clan, with scrubby players, myself included. We were normally very happy if we could do a game and not go negative KDR wise. So back then also, our little group of rag tag scrubs and houswives were set up against Q-synced teams from the best corps in the game. And what did we do? We faught them with nails and teeth. We played as tight as we could, pure combat updates/tactics on coms. In short: we did all that we could and tried to make our organization count towards beating players with way better gungame. Trying to get into 2 vs 1 scenarios. Trying to outflank and hit one spot with our 8 man squad etc. Naturally we mostly failed horribly. We got stomped over and over. Slowly but steadily our performance got better, we got respected and eventually became a factor in MAG. This was mostly the trend in MAG, most battles were filled with fierce competition, or at least thats what my rosie memories tell me.... This is far from the average situation in Dust. This goes for both the less skilled and the pro tryhards. I've been in group with and seen so many players with 5+ KDR leave battles or spawn back into the warbarge as soon as the fighting gets though. The scrubs hide out for different reasons than the tryhards, they're mstly interrested in saving that KDR, they can put up a fight but just can't be bothered. Both of these mentalitie doesn't go well with me. Fighting agaist better players, do you really think that its benefitial for your learning curve to: Stay at the redline sniping? Stay at some high point, a house or rail or whatever, taking the occational pot shot? You know popping your head up and shoot somone in the back while he's engaged in ground fighting... Same goes for the perifferee hero, sirkling the outskirts with a RR or Scr. Same goes for the logibro suddenly calling in a tank and drives aimlessly around. And so on. Why don't you people try to better yourself? Why don't you form up, wait for each other and try to blitz the point from various angles? Are you really content with having an evasive doctrine vs any good team you play? Really? IMO the Dust community is the worst I have seen in terms of player skill and cheap "lets make the game boring" tactics. Way too few try to fight the odds and improve their gungame and tactics, its just safer and better to get defensive, even if the current battlfield dictates that you'll attack or lose the game. Conclusion: Isk payout and perhaps even skillpoints should be affected by winning or losing a battle. This difference should be large enough to matter. At least a 3 to 1 difference. Hopefully this will lead to a mental shift of the general community giving us back more intense and fun battles, and that is the most important improvement of Dust IMO. Not everyone has the sand to say "F--K YOU" and proceed to go negative in both ISK and KDR just to spite the enemy team, and to try and take as many Red dots down as they can. It's a rare trait. Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 123	Posted - 2014.02.01 17:45:00 - [64] - Quote KingBabar wrote: Matticus Monk wrote: KalOfTheRathi wrote: [quote=Matticus Monk] (I'm not thanking these guys, they are still try-hard, cry-baby, pansy-ass tools who I don't respect even an ounce). So, proto-chumps: show us your real skill you baby-faced, snot nosed, security blanket using limp daisies and bring us a real battle. But you'll get your **** handed to you. I know plenty of scouts that would easily tear you to ribbons using standard gear and militia weapons.... Yeah yeah heard it all before. The funny thing is that this mentality seems to be the leading one for such a large part of the comunity. We've done test after test running cheaper fits with merely any difference in results. Teamwork, gungame and fighting spirit wins the battles, gear is merely the top of the iceberg. Actually I did another 10 game test 2 days ago. ( I do this from time to time, I play 10 games, solo in cheap fits and notice the scores to see how bad I'd play without team support and with cheap fits.) I ended up with more kills and a better KDR on average compared to my usual stats. Why? Well I played smart for once, no crazy stuff, and I didn't have 3 experienced dudes around me competing for the kills. I did it in a 35K isk enhanced suit with basic weapons. Best game was 40-4 and the worst was 13-5. I know I can play well without my fanzy gear, and no I still won't do it, protogear makes me able to play more recklessly and makes the game more fun cause a loss of 10 suits in a game sort of hurts. So take that "you need your crutch" attitude and stuff it. Do you really think that the dudes fighting at the top end in PC has no real skills and are merely being carried by their gear and skills? STFU There you go, there is your answer. "No, I will protostomp and blew those I stomp for the problem"
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1509	Posted - 2014.02.01 18:26:00 - [65] - Quote I agree with your OP KingBabar. I think CCP has made two errors with the way they dispense match rewards. Error number one is merely fundamental: ISK payouts. Simply put, there should be an ISK reward for the win, and it should be big enough to matter to peeps. Error number two, however, is flat-out poisonous: Passive time-based in-match sp rewards. This mechanic sends a message to every single player that the game does not walk the New Eden talk. After a few matches, whether they understand the sp mechanics or not, players realize that their effort or lack of it does not really matter very much in terms of skillpoints paid out for a match. It's a particularly crushing realization for new players, and i believe it sucks the romance right out of the space opera. That realization, when it comes, destroys any credibility DUST might have in the mind of a player. It's a message that speaks to the core of the gaming experience and what it tells peeps is that CCP does not respect them as hard-ass immortal mercenary soldiers, but rather sees players as rather delicate creatures that need to be taken care of and have their egos stroked by the game mechanics because they can't handle New Eden as it is. Some peeps are able to recognize, analyze and dissect these sp payout mechanics almost immediately, some peeps only sense the problem intuitively and 'smell' that the situation is somehow distasteful, but i contend that it deeply effects every single player and sets the 'moral tone' for mercenary soldiers in New Eden. Hence my use of the word 'poisonous'. Somebody at CCP thinks that these things don't matter or that peeps don't notice, i say that in the long run it is a primary limiting factor on the quality of the merc experience, the size of the playerbase and bears directly on the survival of DUST in the New Eden universe. What can be done? First and foremost somebody at CCP needs to champion the players and realize that peeps are up to the challenge of living and dying and earning a buck in New Eden. And also to do something about the nanny-state interventions that CCP is perpetrating on the players. Once the will is there it's not hard at all to improve the situation. There are so many solid suggestions on these forums, all of which have been read and discussed by CCP on multiple occasions. My personal choice for things done right would be to remove the sp dole and replace it with differential WP rewards - noob taking down 40 million sp vet running full proto should be damn well rewarded for it, that same vet should get fractional payouts for harvesting that same noob. But what we should all be rewarded handsomely for is the win. I support SP rollover.
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1722	Posted - 2014.02.01 18:38:00 - [66] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: I agree with your OP KingBabar. I think CCP has made two errors with the way they dispense match rewards. Error number one is merely fundamental: ISK payouts. Simply put, there should be an ISK reward for the win, and it should be big enough to matter to peeps. Error number two, however, is flat-out poisonous: Passive time-based in-match sp rewards. This mechanic sends a message to every single player that the game does not walk the New Eden talk. After a few matches, whether they understand the sp mechanics or not, players realize that their effort or lack of it does not really matter very much in terms of skillpoints paid out for a match. It's a particularly crushing realization for new players, and i believe it sucks the romance right out of the space opera. That realization, when it comes, destroys any credibility DUST might have in the mind of a player. It's a message that speaks to the core of the gaming experience and what it tells peeps is that CCP does not respect them as hard-ass immortal mercenary soldiers, but rather sees players as rather delicate creatures that need to be taken care of and have their egos stroked by the game mechanics because they can't handle New Eden as it is. Some peeps are able to recognize, analyze and dissect these sp payout mechanics almost immediately, some peeps only sense the problem intuitively and 'smell' that the situation is somehow distasteful, but i contend that it deeply effects every single player and sets the 'moral tone' for mercenary soldiers in New Eden. Hence my use of the word 'poisonous'. Somebody at CCP thinks that these things don't matter or that peeps don't notice, i say that in the long run it is a primary limiting factor on the quality of the merc experience, the size of the playerbase and bears directly on the survival of DUST in the New Eden universe. What can be done? First and foremost somebody at CCP needs to champion the players and realize that peeps are up to the challenge of living and dying and earning a buck in New Eden. And also to do something about the nanny-state interventions that CCP is perpetrating on the players. Once the will is there it's not hard at all to improve the situation. There are so many solid suggestions on these forums, all of which have been read and discussed by CCP on multiple occasions. My personal choice for things done right would be to remove the sp dole and replace it with differential WP rewards - noob taking down 40 million sp vet running full proto should be damn well rewarded for it, that same vet should get fractional payouts for harvesting that same noob. But what we should all be rewarded handsomely for is the win. That was so beautiful I got a tear in my eye! +1 http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 2528	Posted - 2014.02.01 18:45:00 - [67] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: -snip- That was very well written. +1 Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4324	Posted - 2014.02.01 18:51:00 - [68] - Quote I think this thread is cancer.
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 2529	Posted - 2014.02.01 18:56:00 - [69] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: I think this thread is cancer. Call the Medic Dev and surgically remove it right? Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Rei Shepard The Rainbow Effect 1556	Posted - 2014.02.01 18:59:00 - [70] - Quote KingBabar wrote: As I've said before, I'm so very tired of the constant stomping and can't really see any better way of upping the action than go in in small groups, mostly 2-4 dudes per squad. This way we can't be all over the battlefield, there will always be an unguarded point etc. This means that we most of the time have players on the field to fight and we don't have to stand on the redline. It also means we'll get some truly awsome fights when we're up against stacked teams. You know, FUN! So yeserday this is what we do. We're 3 players and we mostly played dom. And a trend was starting to reveal itself. Many corps and groups of players were "stuck in our queue", meaning that they were in our games for 2 hours more or less. So when put on our team they bring out their ARs, LAVs and playing the point and trying to win, nothing new about that. The next game, when facing us, they never even leave the redline. And here we're talking about 6 dudes from the same corp a corp thats been here since beta ffs, all bringing out their snipers to sort of spite us I believe. And yes I do indeed see the joy in that. Off course this leads to a very boring game for us and I would believe the other 10 dudes having their prime group of that battle not taking part. And this repeated itself more or less several times with various groups of players. I remember back in the early days of MAG, my first competitive shooter. I had a scrub clan, with scrubby players, myself included. We were normally very happy if we could do a game and not go negative KDR wise. So back then also, our little group of rag tag scrubs and houswives were set up against Q-synced teams from the best corps in the game. And what did we do? We faught them with nails and teeth. We played as tight as we could, pure combat updates/tactics on coms. In short: we did all that we could and tried to make our organization count towards beating players with way better gungame. Trying to get into 2 vs 1 scenarios. Trying to outflank and hit one spot with our 8 man squad etc. Naturally we mostly failed horribly. We got stomped over and over. Slowly but steadily our performance got better, we got respected and eventually became a factor in MAG. This was mostly the trend in MAG, most battles were filled with fierce competition, or at least thats what my rosie memories tell me.... This is far from the average situation in Dust. This goes for both the less skilled and the pro tryhards. I've been in group with and seen so many players with 5+ KDR leave battles or spawn back into the warbarge as soon as the fighting gets though. The scrubs hide out for different reasons than the tryhards, they're mstly interrested in saving that KDR, they can put up a fight but just can't be bothered. Both of these mentalitie doesn't go well with me. Fighting agaist better players, do you really think that its benefitial for your learning curve to: Stay at the redline sniping? Stay at some high point, a house or rail or whatever, taking the occational pot shot? You know popping your head up and shoot somone in the back while he's engaged in ground fighting... Same goes for the perifferee hero, sirkling the outskirts with a RR or Scr. Same goes for the logibro suddenly calling in a tank and drives aimlessly around. And so on. Why don't you people try to better yourself? Why don't you form up, wait for each other and try to blitz the point from various angles? Are you really content with having an evasive doctrine vs any good team you play? Really? IMO the Dust community is the worst I have seen in terms of player skill and cheap "lets make the game boring" tactics. Way too few try to fight the odds and improve their gungame and tactics, its just safer and better to get defensive, even if the current battlfield dictates that you'll attack or lose the game. Conclusion: Isk payout and perhaps even skillpoints should be affected by winning or losing a battle. This difference should be large enough to matter. At least a 3 to 1 difference. Hopefully this will lead to a mental shift of the general community giving us back more intense and fun battles, and that is the most important improvement of Dust IMO. Can't agree more with this post or make a better one even if i tried! Its the reason you see me solo the entire time, its the only way in this game to get a good game once in a while and ill take all my bad ones just to get that one really good one. But lately even entire teams stay either in their redline or bail out if they see me, i had Ceo_Pyrex's team drop from a game when i entered, i mean its been 2 months since i fought him and his team, but he's still b*tthurt from one beating. I cant remember the amount of games where i went x/8-12 deaths to give the opposition a though time, when i look at the map to check why i was getting flanked from all sides, my entire team would be in our redline because they had a team. This is the first FPS games ive come across where everyones KDR means so much, it would be better for this game if they deleted that statistic. I come from PC and i do not understand this mentality of not wanting to get better at the game, i mean i have roughly 50-60% loss of fine motor control in my wrists and hands and its taken me a couple of years to adapt to it since i got back into the FPS scene (Carpal Tunnel gone bad from excessive FPS gaming when i was 21-24, at the end point i had to put my hands in cold water for 5 minutes to play 15 minutes and then they would feel completely numb, i quit too late with permanent damage) but i worked on it and i can play decently again, if i don't play too much. So yeah i don't get it either why people don't want to work on "getting" better, though you don't want to play too much to catch Carpal tunnel, but then again its a KBM disease, not DS3. Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"

Meee One The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 262	Posted - 2014.02.01 19:01:00 - [71] - Quote Nothing here but bitter vets wanting to rob noobs of any chance of competing. "Increase wins,Decrease loss LOL" New player goes 0/10 first match after the academy,feels defeated and robbed uninstalls Dust the same day,and plays another more satisfying FPS. There is no "welcome to new eden" "get gud newb" or "htfu". You are all idiots...this game is trying to appeal to FPS gamers not MMO gamers. It hooks players with the FPS and keeps them interested with the customization and freedom(MMO). If you make the hook dull (HURR LOWEER DUH REWARDZ) then it won't stick. FPS gamers are used to fast rewards,and fair but challenging game play,with these suggestions in any form you support FOTM fittings because most FPS gamers don't have the patients to "grind" when they get stomped every match with reduced rewards. CCP would never commit suicide like that. Sexy jutsu Time to jaaam!
Th3rdSun L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 570	Posted - 2014.02.01 19:03:00 - [72] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: 1) Cease allowing us to spawn on Objectives in all gamemodes. There should be specific set spawn points for each side as well as Drop Uplinks which can be custom placed by players and CRU's which can be hacked by either team. 2) When we are the Attackers, we should be attacking and we should hold nothing on the field aside from our footspawn and the MCC spawn. When Defending, we should hold everything on the field until the Attackers have destroyed it or seized control of it (in which case we can always hack it back). 3) Change the payout for losing. As it is now, the losers still get a cookie for showing up. They shouldn't get a cookie, they should get maybe some crumbs but nothing more, slant ISK payouts towards the winners 85/15. Give more gravity to winning the match. Give us standings for the other NPC corps aside from the Militia corps and adjust our ISK payouts accordingly taking into consideration the NPC corps we are working for (multiply our individual payouts by 1.XX where XX is equal to our X.X standing with the corporation). If our standings are low enough for a particular corp, we will not be queued into matches for them since they'd rather spit on us rather than employ us. 4) Add a method by which System Security Status is accounted for and which blocks the use certain equipment for those matches (i.e. metalevel based entry restrictions) as well as blue-on-blue fire. If I go into a match in a 0.7, I can't use as wide a variety of equipment (nor will my bluefire register) as I can if I go into a match in a 0.2 (where my bluefire will register). 5) Allow squads to be loaded into battles, though there should be no "No Squad" guys as well as no "Locking" mechanic for squads. Anyone who is a solo rambo should be loaded into preformed squads if there are no squads on the team with room for anyone. This will incentivize grouping up since no one will want to be forced to squad with John Rando who spins in circles in the MCC while blaring Rick Astley over comms. Implement these changes and watch the battlefield dynamics change for the better. Incentivize fighting and people will fight, hand out cookies and milk to all and give everyone a pat on the back and a "good work, try better, you'll get it next time" at the end of the battle and watch people blueball their enemies and pull stupid **** instead of staying focused. 1)I understand what you are saying,but this would only encourage more camping of spawn points,like it did in the E3 build.What should happen is spawns should be similar to Starhawk,where you can actually drop into the battlefield. 2)This would be predicated on a different game mode,ala Skirmish 1.0.This game desperately needs it back. 3)Couldn't agree more.There's no real penalty for losing as it stands,unless you are running high priced gear and dying a lot.I would add that the complete removal of player KDR stat tracking,and KDR leaderboard rankings would completely change the dynamic of squad functionality.Giving a better incentive to win,like higher ISK payout+better and more frequent salvage would be best for this game. 4)This would be done by having the ability to actually play in nullsec areas for the most part. 5)Totally agree,there's no reason that players should be without a squad in match.This goes into a bigger issue though that CCP just can't seem to figure out this far into development.Grouping,matchmaking,and in match leadership roles.MAG had that structure down perfect and it's something that CCP just just flat out ripoff.If you are running solo,you should be auto squaded while in match,and when the match is over,then you should be given the option to stay in squad or leave,simple as that.
Rei Shepard The Rainbow Effect 1556	Posted - 2014.02.01 19:08:00 - [73] - Quote Quote: My personal choice for things done right would be to remove the sp dole and replace it with differential WP rewards - noob taking down 40 million sp vet running full proto should be damn well rewarded for it, that same vet should get fractional payouts for harvesting that same noob. But what we should all be rewarded handsomely for is the win. This right here +1. I personally don't want to run Proto 24/7, i want to be able to cry when i lose a proto suit or shake from the adrenaline of saving my suit from destruction, instead of the "Meh, i got 9000 more of those suits", but then they just made Tanks cost pennies. so yeah... Militia Gear should be dirt cheap Standard gear should be, you know the standard everyone is running Advanced gear should bite you in the wallet for dying in one Proto gear should be something you talk about seeing on the field like they talk about how real the Lochness Monster really is Officer gear should be like loosing your Capital Ship in Eve But loosing a 230k suit tingles a little, witch sadly does not prevent me from running mine 24/7. Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4527	Posted - 2014.02.01 19:13:00 - [74] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: Lets have a full reset of isk and sp to level the play field. What a stupid idea.
Spectre-M The Generals General Tso's Alliance 235	Posted - 2014.02.01 19:31:00 - [75] - Quote Eve security space mechanics would help. Public = high sec ( up to adv gear) PC/FW = low sec ( any tier gear ) I don't see why something like this hasn't been implemented yet. If we want proto stomping to stop, we need to limit its use. Does anyone have more info on how the space security works in Eve, and if we could mirror the idea. Amarr Factional Warfare Loyalist Minnmatar in Amarr Armor I am a Wolf in Sheeps Clothing
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 1522	Posted - 2014.02.01 19:34:00 - [76] - Quote KingBabar wrote: shaman oga wrote: Come on, i've played against your team yesterday with my alt, don't try to lie, you were just proto stomping like you always do, one guy was playing with an almighty gar21 balac, then you come here on the forums and play the part of the offended. Play without your team if you can, it's always EZ and boring when matchmaking put another full squad with you and squad. Yeah well granted. We did play for 2-3 hours as a 3 man team. Later on (I was getting seriously drunk and ended with a 10-8 game vs nobody and called it a night) before that point we did indeed roll with 4 and then 5. This is a notorious problem. You are 3 in squad and after a batlle you see this single dude in your cop not having any to play with. You shrugit off and play another game and after the game the same dude is still waiting for someone to play with. So your squad gets filled eventually. And I've stated that we do this, but it doesn't include all of us and definately not all the time. Calling me out as a liar because you saw me in a game with a full squad was uncalled for. I don't say that you can't play with your friends or invite your corpmates and obviously i can't blame you for winning a game, if you play better than someone else you deserve to win. I understand that teamwork work better than proto suit, but if you add teamwork to proto and multiply it for 2 (not your fault, this is CCP matchmaking that stacks 2 squads on the same side), your team will obviously stomp the other team (usually random or a single squad that can hold 1 point till all the other team push on them). Of course you can play your part and play in STD or ADV gear, instead of PRO even if you can afford PRO 24/7, again you are not problem but you are part of it. You have to change mentality and give other players a chance and you can give them a chance, simply by wearing cheaper gear. It's not such an effort. 1.8 it's so secret that nobody know what will be in it, even after patch notes...
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2354	Posted - 2014.02.01 19:34:00 - [77] - Quote Spectre-M wrote: Eve security space mechanics would help. Public = high sec ( up to adv gear) PC/FW = low sec ( any tier gear ) I don't see why something like this hasn't been implemented yet. If we want proto stomping to stop, we need to limit its use. Does anyone have more info on how the space security works in Eve, and if we could mirror the idea. If you do that tryhards complain that they cant use the gear they unlocked Frankly pub games make them basic only thats sorts it all out Intelligence is OP
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 1035	Posted - 2014.02.01 19:36:00 - [78] - Quote I'm honestly trying to wraggle up newberries and get them to do that with my Suicide Squadron. Getting them into the right mentality early on helps them later down the road. One of the biggest issues with Dust is it's learning curve and the SP gap. Players who don't know how to manage their SP, their chosen role, and ISK feel the hit harder than before since a good majority of players have 10+ Mil SP with a lot of that portion having experience in competitive realms(PC, tournies, yada-yada). Those that do stick around usually have to learn on their own because most corps either want someone already experienced, which these new players can't get because no one wants them, or someone whose personal skills are actually above par. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
mollerz Minja Scouts 2198	Posted - 2014.02.01 19:37:00 - [79] - Quote I don't blame any part of the playerbase for how **** up this whole goat rodeo of a game is. CCP just has no clue. And when they get one, they move painfully slow to correct anything. Not even small changes that could at least alleviate issues are made. As an example: Tank spam- Why do tanks cost as much as a honda civic again? Shouldn't tanks cost a few million? An M1 Abrams costs the US Government $6 million or so. Change the price to reflect some sense of scale, economy, and mimic reality a little bit and tank spam will vanish. No one could beef about AV power as much.. not to say it shouldn't still be tweaked mind you. At the same time, people who've skilled deep into tanks will have some sense of accomplishment. Then there are all the bugs. I die more to bugs than proto suits IMO. I don't mind getting cut down by a stronger foe at all. But when I die to that foe because I stick to terrain and can't escape, can't jump a railing, can't even ***** sprint after i use my weapon, etc. Then you toss on all the protostomping with the shitshow matchmaking and there is no way this game has any chance. It seems like the ship might finally being righted, and we might all just start sailing smoother. However, they've not only squandered 1.0-1.7 so far, over the course of a year, they've left long standing severe issues that have the playerbase having this discussion. When your customers are discussing and fighting about self policing and gimping play styles and what not- well, that's a developer fail right there. MY pS4 is finally in the mail. My friends all have them. Better games are on the way.... CCPs lucky breaks are dwindling and they are just going to get washed over by hungrier and better developers. From every angle it looks as if CCP plans to let Eve perpetually subsidize dust with dust comprised of the same protostomping corps circlejerking each other. That, babar, is what dust is on it's way to becoming. So enjoy the fact there are newberries to stomp while you can. One day they will vanish to better things and you won't have to worry about it. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1800	Posted - 2014.02.01 19:39:00 - [80] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Quote: My personal choice for things done right would be to remove the sp dole and replace it with differential WP rewards - noob taking down 40 million sp vet running full proto should be damn well rewarded for it, that same vet should get fractional payouts for harvesting that same noob. But what we should all be rewarded handsomely for is the win. This right here +1. I personally don't want to run Proto 24/7, i want to be able to cry when i lose a proto suit or shake from the adrenaline of saving my suit from destruction, instead of the "Meh, i got 9000 more of those suits", but then they just made Tanks cost pennies. so yeah... Militia Gear should be dirt cheap Standard gear should be, you know the standard everyone is running Advanced gear should bite you in the wallet for dying in one Proto gear should be something you talk about seeing on the field like they talk about how real the Lochness Monster really is Officer gear should be like loosing your Capital Ship in Eve But loosing a 230k suit tingles a little, witch sadly does not prevent me from running mine 24/7. Excellent idea. It would also be nice if an ISK differential stat was available, to give people besides lolKDR to focus on and take the sting out of losing... I may have lost but I cost you a lot of money, jerk! One big issue is how to do what you propose. Just increasing costs won't work because there are still the Nyain San and AEs who print their own money, so even if you triple the cost, they can still run proto but nobody else will be able to. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.1 Amarr victor!

KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1004	Posted - 2014.02.01 19:40:00 - [81] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Try to wear ADV sometime. I can't. There's no fitting slots left to do that. Support this thread and this post to reduce protosuit amounts even a bit: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540828#post1540828 FEEDBACK: Analysis on 1.7 tank functionality
Scheneighnay McBob Learning Coalition College 3871	Posted - 2014.02.01 19:40:00 - [82] - Quote I like exploiting the current player mentality. While you all zerg and counterzerg, I run around the action and turn everything blue. I am your scan error.
Th3rdSun L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 570	Posted - 2014.02.01 19:45:00 - [83] - Quote mollerz wrote: I don't blame any part of the playerbase for how **** up this whole goat rodeo of a game is. CCP just has no clue. And when they get one, they move painfully slow to correct anything. Not even small changes that could at least alleviate issues are made. As an example: Tank spam- Why do tanks cost as much as a honda civic again? Shouldn't tanks cost a few million? An M1 Abrams costs the US Government $6 million or so. Change the price to reflect some sense of scale, economy, and mimic reality a little bit and tank spam will vanish. No one could beef about AV power as much.. not to say it shouldn't still be tweaked mind you. At the same time, people who've skilled deep into tanks will have some sense of accomplishment. EDIT: They also have to fix their economy or only the same old OG corps will be the only ones able to afford them. Then there are all the bugs. I die more to bugs than proto suits IMO. I don't mind getting cut down by a stronger foe at all. But when I die to that foe because I stick to terrain and can't escape, can't jump a railing, can't even ***** sprint after i use my weapon, etc. Then you toss on all the protostomping with the shitshow matchmaking and there is no way this game has any chance. It seems like the ship might finally being righted, and we might all just start sailing smoother. However, they've not only squandered 1.0-1.7 so far, over the course of a year, they've left long standing severe issues that have the playerbase having this discussion. When your customers are discussing and fighting about self policing and gimping play styles and what not- well, that's a developer fail right there. My pS4 is finally in the mail. My friends all have them. Better games are on the way.... CCPs lucky breaks are dwindling and they are just going to get washed over by hungrier and better developers. From every angle it looks as if CCP plans to let Eve perpetually subsidize dust with dust comprised of the same protostomping corps circlejerking each other. That, babar, is what dust is on it's way to becoming. So enjoy the fact there are newberries to stomp while you can. One day they will vanish to better things and you won't have to worry about it. +1 for using the term "goat rodeo". It's almost like I have a real life alter ego that wrote this post.
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 125	Posted - 2014.02.01 19:46:00 - [84] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: I agree with your OP KingBabar. I think CCP has made two errors with the way they dispense match rewards. Error number one is merely fundamental: ISK payouts. Simply put, there should be an ISK reward for the win, and it should be big enough to matter to peeps. Error number two, however, is flat-out poisonous: Passive time-based in-match sp rewards. This mechanic sends a message to every single player that the game does not walk the New Eden talk. After a few matches, whether they understand the sp mechanics or not, players realize that their effort or lack of it does not really matter very much in terms of skillpoints paid out for a match. It's a particularly crushing realization for new players, and i believe it sucks the romance right out of the space opera. That realization, when it comes, destroys any credibility DUST might have in the mind of a player. It's a message that speaks to the core of the gaming experience and what it tells peeps is that CCP does not respect them as hard-ass immortal mercenary soldiers, but rather sees players as rather delicate creatures that need to be taken care of and have their egos stroked by the game mechanics because they can't handle New Eden as it is. Some peeps are able to recognize, analyze and dissect these sp payout mechanics almost immediately, some peeps only sense the problem intuitively and 'smell' that the situation is somehow distasteful, but i contend that it deeply effects every single player and sets the 'moral tone' for mercenary soldiers in New Eden. Hence my use of the word 'poisonous'. Somebody at CCP thinks that these things don't matter or that peeps don't notice, i say that in the long run it is a primary limiting factor on the quality of the merc experience, the size of the playerbase and bears directly on the survival of DUST in the What can be done? First and foremost somebody at CCP needs to champion the players and realize that peeps are up to the challenge of living and dying and earning a buck in New Eden. And also to do something about the nanny-state interventions that CCP is perpetrating on the players. Once the will is there it's not hard at all to improve the situation. There are so many solid suggestions on these forums, all of which have been read and discussed by CCP on multiple occasions. My personal choice for things done right would be to remove the sp dole and replace it with differential WP rewards - noob taking down 40 million sp vet running full proto should be damn well rewarded for it, that same vet should get fractional payouts for harvesting that same noob. But what we should all be rewarded handsomely for is the win. What this would mean in practice is that the proto stompers would not even leave things like hacking CRU's to the new guys on their teams. there would be competition for every WP and the protostompers would stomp their teammates. I like the idea of differing payouts based on different suits you kill, but there is much more to the game than killing.
Spectre-M The Generals General Tso's Alliance 236	Posted - 2014.02.01 19:46:00 - [85] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Spectre-M wrote: Eve security space mechanics would help. Public = high sec ( up to adv gear) PC/FW = low sec ( any tier gear ) I don't see why something like this hasn't been implemented yet. If we want proto stomping to stop, we need to limit its use. Does anyone have more info on how the space security works in Eve, and if we could mirror the idea. If you do that tryhards complain that they cant use the gear they unlocked Frankly pub games make them basic only thats sorts it all out Let them complain, then I'll tell them to HTFU. Proto should be used for high stakes. Would someone use the most expensive ship to fight newbies in eve high-sec. I'm sure I've heard that concord enforces these areas without prejudice. This game either grows or dies, it's really up to the larger corps what fate brings for Dust, because CCP doesn't GAF. They've proven so with PC districts printing isk for proto squads. Amarr Factional Warfare Loyalist Minnmatar in Amarr Armor I am a Wolf in Sheeps Clothing
God Damn Overheat SLAPHAPPY BANDITS 1	Posted - 2014.02.01 19:50:00 - [86] - Quote KingBabar wrote: Conclusion: Isk payout and perhaps even skillpoints should be affected by winning or losing a battle. This difference should be large enough to matter. At least a 3 to 1 difference. Hopefully this will lead to a mental shift of the general community giving us back more intense and fun battles, and that is the most important improvement of Dust IMO. I think you lack understanding, which makes for poor logic. People don't feel like being proto stomped into the ground, it's a waste of time, no fun, and a waste of ISK. The idea of less money for loser will push those who decide it aint worth it, to shy away even more. The ISK payouts all together are pathetic, on my heavy earlier I run a match, non stop defending/pushing the objective, 30+kills, but 10 deaths, my 1st 5 suits cost me 30k a pop so 150k, then I dropped to 10k suits, another 50k. The game ends the other side win, 10/16 easily running all proto. I get 197k ISK, so I lose ISK for actually trying.... or I can sit in the redline with a ****** sniper fir, go 4/0 and make 197k. I'll entertain your thoughts though. So say we do this 3:1 ratio, I play my heart out, spending 200k to get rewarded 197k, a loss of 3k. You(The stomper) gets near enough 600k, enough to fund more proto suits, where as my loss reduces me into MLT suits, totry make ends meat. So now your playing players who can only afford to run a MLT suit, this will improve your fun? The game needs to have a way to understand effort and how valuable or critical certain kills are, Ifi spend an entire match within 100m of an objective always dealing and recieving damage, I should get more than 197k. The mental shift you seek is blocked by your own activities of stomping. How many fights do you see where a full squad of Ancient Exiles or Nyian lagswitch are dominating and decide to run MLT gear to try even the odds?.....you don't they make a point of running their most exspensive gears to make sure there is NO chance of an enemy resurgance. Rail tanks parked up ready to destroy anything called in, full proto logis weilding rail rifles sideto side on the redline. The games was designed very badly, big lapses in judgemeent, allowing the strong to always be strong, and the weak to push through months and months of "New Eden" just so they can one day do the same things: Reinforce poor matchmaing. Destroy NPE Act like they actually have some kind of gungame.
Dericha A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 20	Posted - 2014.02.01 20:04:00 - [87] - Quote KingBabar wrote: As I've said before, I'm so very tired of the constant stomping and can't really see any better way of upping the action than go in in small groups, mostly 2-4 dudes per squad. This way we can't be all over the battlefield, there will always be an unguarded point etc. This means that we most of the time have players on the field to fight and we don't have to stand on the redline. It also means we'll get some truly awsome fights when we're up against stacked teams. You know, FUN! So yeserday this is what we do. We're 3 players and we mostly played dom. And a trend was starting to reveal itself. Many corps and groups of players were "stuck in our queue", meaning that they were in our games for 2 hours more or less. So when put on our team they bring out their ARs, LAVs and playing the point and trying to win, nothing new about that. The next game, when facing us, they never even leave the redline. And here we're talking about 6 dudes from the same corp a corp thats been here since beta ffs, all bringing out their snipers to sort of spite us I believe. And yes I do indeed see the joy in that. Off course this leads to a very boring game for us and I would believe the other 10 dudes having their prime group of that battle not taking part. And this repeated itself more or less several times with various groups of players. I remember back in the early days of MAG, my first competitive shooter. I had a scrub clan, with scrubby players, myself included. We were normally very happy if we could do a game and not go negative KDR wise. So back then also, our little group of rag tag scrubs and houswives were set up against Q-synced teams from the best corps in the game. And what did we do? We faught them with nails and teeth. We played as tight as we could, pure combat updates/tactics on coms. In short: we did all that we could and tried to make our organization count towards beating players with way better gungame. Trying to get into 2 vs 1 scenarios. Trying to outflank and hit one spot with our 8 man squad etc. Naturally we mostly failed horribly. We got stomped over and over. Slowly but steadily our performance got better, we got respected and eventually became a factor in MAG. This was mostly the trend in MAG, most battles were filled with fierce competition, or at least thats what my rosie memories tell me.... This is far from the average situation in Dust. This goes for both the less skilled and the pro tryhards. I've been in group with and seen so many players with 5+ KDR leave battles or spawn back into the warbarge as soon as the fighting gets though. The scrubs hide out for different reasons than the tryhards, they're mstly interrested in saving that KDR, they can put up a fight but just can't be bothered. Both of these mentalitie doesn't go well with me. Fighting agaist better players, do you really think that its benefitial for your learning curve to: Stay at the redline sniping? Stay at some high point, a house or rail or whatever, taking the occational pot shot? You know popping your head up and shoot somone in the back while he's engaged in ground fighting... Same goes for the perifferee hero, sirkling the outskirts with a RR or Scr. Same goes for the logibro suddenly calling in a tank and drives aimlessly around. And so on. Why don't you people try to better yourself? Why don't you form up, wait for each other and try to blitz the point from various angles? Are you really content with having an evasive doctrine vs any good team you play? Really? IMO the Dust community is the worst I have seen in terms of player skill and cheap "lets make the game boring" tactics. Way too few try to fight the odds and improve their gungame and tactics, its just safer and better to get defensive, even if the current battlfield dictates that you'll attack or lose the game. Conclusion: Isk payout and perhaps even skillpoints should be affected by winning or losing a battle. This difference should be large enough to matter. At least a 3 to 1 difference. Hopefully this will lead to a mental shift of the general community giving us back more intense and fun battles, and that is the most important improvement of Dust IMO. I like the solution- give us more kills and gimp the other players more by limiting their ISK payouts and SP, thereby making them less competitive. If you want a better game, go in with blueprint gear and an adv weapon like I do instead of mk.0 logi suits full of damage mods. Perhaps the problem isn't everyone else.
Bar Be Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 21	Posted - 2014.02.01 20:09:00 - [88] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: But loosing a 230k suit tingles a little, witch sadly does not prevent me from running mine 24/7. This. This is a problem. And the huge SP gap. Some can afford to roll Proto all the time. I have a single Proto weapon that I can't afford to run. People talk about the "risk" of running Proto a lot. But if you've got 100s of millions of ISK, where's the risk? I don't care about KDR. I'll keep coming as long as I'm having fun. But in a battle when I'm constantly being scanned, being torn apart by Proto Rail Rifles I haven't seen, being decimated by a tank that I can't scratch, getting ripped up by a Proto heavy that's just hopped out of a LAV... You get the point. ItGÇÖs a game. It needs to be fun. Oh and by the way, don't forget: core skills, proficiencies and map knowledge. Just because someoneGÇÖs in a basic suit and ripping up noobs doesn't mean they're good.
Th3rdSun L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 571	Posted - 2014.02.01 20:23:00 - [89] - Quote God Damn Overheat wrote: I think you lack understanding, which makes for poor logic. People don't feel like being proto stomped into the ground, it's a waste of time, no fun, and a waste of ISK. The idea of less money for loser will push those who decide it aint worth it, to shy away even more. This is where better matchmaking would come into play. People think that matches should be tiered by lifetime SP,but I think this is a bad idea and would further segregate the already paper thin player base. What should happen instead is that certain maps should be designated by a meta level cap.So basically,it would be the total meta level of a players suit including equipment and modules.This way,everyone can still play these maps,they just have to adjust and make suits to fit the map.Grand Turismo 5 had something like this where you couldn't just get a car and max it completely out to blow away the other racers.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 1525	Posted - 2014.02.01 20:24:00 - [90] - Quote IMO, the only tolerable proto suits in public are scouts and commando because those suit are playable only at proto level. 1.8 it's so secret that nobody know what will be in it, even after patch notes...

Delanus Turgias Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 222	Posted - 2014.02.01 20:38:00 - [91] - Quote KingBabar wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: OP does nothing but pub stomp OP then complains about pub stomps OP is complaining at himself lol OP does much more than merely protostomp. There is lots of CBs (well not right now), and I've definately played my share of FW, mostly Caldari and Amarr. And then there is the various theme nights too... Op don't complain about pub stomps. I'm complaining about seasoned players like you, playing in a defensive manner not caring the slightest about winning or loosing, KDR seems to be more important. You were much more fun to play with or against in MAG, you used to care every game I played with you back then. You were an excellent platoon leader trying to fire up your side to stop those pesky SVER tryhards from taking our base. Lets drop everything else for a moment. What hapened to you dude? You used to be one of the guys I looked up to and I wanted to be as good as you back then. In Dust you've mostly been one of those morons staying at the outskirts taking potshots with you tank. I want the old, giving his all for the underdogs, never backing away from a fight EnglishSnake that we all respected in MAG. What happened to you dude? Is there any hope for seing the old you again? Man, do you even remember MAG? Take off those rose-tinted sunglasses. Sabotage was infested with skeet shooters once C was unlocked and they could paradrop. It was impossible to get on the ground unless you spawned a half mile back and ran to Charlie, only to get gunned down and have to repeat the process. Dom turned into a slaughter if both of the last objectives got taken and the attackers could take over the complex. Sure it had it's moments, but it was just as stomptastic as Dust. Closed Beta Vet since July, 2012 TEST Alliance Best Alliance Proud owner of essentially every BPO in Dust
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 2531	Posted - 2014.02.01 20:48:00 - [92] - Quote Delanus Turgias wrote: KingBabar wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: OP does nothing but pub stomp OP then complains about pub stomps OP is complaining at himself lol OP does much more than merely protostomp. There is lots of CBs (well not right now), and I've definately played my share of FW, mostly Caldari and Amarr. And then there is the various theme nights too... Op don't complain about pub stomps. I'm complaining about seasoned players like you, playing in a defensive manner not caring the slightest about winning or loosing, KDR seems to be more important. You were much more fun to play with or against in MAG, you used to care every game I played with you back then. You were an excellent platoon leader trying to fire up your side to stop those pesky SVER tryhards from taking our base. Lets drop everything else for a moment. What hapened to you dude? You used to be one of the guys I looked up to and I wanted to be as good as you back then. In Dust you've mostly been one of those morons staying at the outskirts taking potshots with you tank. I want the old, giving his all for the underdogs, never backing away from a fight EnglishSnake that we all respected in MAG. What happened to you dude? Is there any hope for seing the old you again? Man, do you even remember MAG? Take off those rose-tinted sunglasses. Sabotage was infested with skeet shooters once C was unlocked and they could paradrop. It was impossible to get on the ground unless you spawned a half mile back and ran to Charlie, only to get gunned down and have to repeat the process. Dom turned into a slaughter if both of the last objectives got taken and the attackers could take over the complex. Sure it had it's moments, but it was just as stomptastic as Dust. Every FPS has a stomp in it. Remember the fishbowl from 1943? A good team could spawn trap that single flag so hard it wasn't even funny. Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2975	Posted - 2014.02.01 20:48:00 - [93] - Quote I'm appalled at the increasing of soft cored mercenaries that are multiplying. It wasn't always like this. We had the tears but now it just seems like an over abundance of kindergarten fighters in futuristic dropsuits. Its like folks haven't played other FPS MP that has slaughtered them upon first entry. Yes, New Eden is a jagged pill to swallow but if I and so many others have done it, how come they can not? Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
I HateMyFace FACTION WARFARE ARMY 65	Posted - 2014.02.01 20:50:00 - [94] - Quote So I played you today king. And I always go hard in the paint trust me. I suck and I'm probably the worst commando ever but I try. Less than halfway through the match my team was pigeon holed at our last uplink. I tried to run and grab another point but if I even moved from cover the two tanks on the hill would murder me instantly. If I ran around the other direction 8 would be cut down by your teammates. I tried changing my fits and tactics but I could barely stay alive for more than 60 seconds before I saw your proto suit come around the corner and own me. Props to you. You're good. But you redlined my team. And they couldn't even come out from behind the red line hill we were all behind to even try to retaliate. I did manage to sneak away and throw down an uplink. My team started spawning on it then all of a sudden 1 OB tore my entire team to shreds. This happened twice. The best score on my team was 4/12 400ish wp It's disheartening to get shite stomped so hard you can't even really play the game
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2975	Posted - 2014.02.01 20:54:00 - [95] - Quote Th3rdSun wrote: God Damn Overheat wrote: I think you lack understanding, which makes for poor logic. People don't feel like being proto stomped into the ground, it's a waste of time, no fun, and a waste of ISK. The idea of less money for loser will push those who decide it aint worth it, to shy away even more. This is where better matchmaking would come into play. People think that matches should be tiered by lifetime SP,but I think this is a bad idea and would further segregate the already paper thin player base. What should happen instead is that certain maps should be designated by a meta level cap.So basically,it would be the total meta level of a players suit including equipment and modules.This way,everyone can still play these maps,they just have to adjust and make suits to fit the map.Grand Turismo 5 had something like this where you couldn't just get a car and max it completely out to blow away the other racers. Better matchmaking begins with the community. Let's just face the truth here. If you're a competitive player, your only option is PC (which is basically locked down) and maybe some FW. Other than that, pub matches are filled with players who play like big babies on the battlefield. One good "punch" to the jawline and they run to the hills, not even attempting to fight. It's a shame. It wasn't always that bad but players need to start toughening up a bit. It doesn't take much to let your merc gain passive SP or play a couple of matches, just to get a lvl 1 weapon that you can do some damage with. It's really not that hard. But some of this mentality falls on the responsibility of some vets in the community who used the NPE and Protostomp examples to heighten the importance of their opinion of wanting PVE and changes in game. It didn't set a good example with new mercs and now they constantly play their violins. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2975	Posted - 2014.02.01 20:59:00 - [96] - Quote I HateMyFace wrote: So I played you today king. And I always go hard in the paint trust me. I suck and I'm probably the worst commando ever but I try. Less than halfway through the match my team was pigeon holed at our last uplink. I tried to run and grab another point but if I even moved from cover the two tanks on the hill would murder me instantly. If I ran around the other direction 8 would be cut down by your teammates. I tried changing my fits and tactics but I could barely stay alive for more than 60 seconds before I saw your proto suit come around the corner and own me. Props to you. You're good. But you redlined my team. And they couldn't even come out from behind the red line hill we were all behind to even try to retaliate. I did manage to sneak away and throw down an uplink. My team started spawning on it then all of a sudden 1 OB tore my entire team to shreds. This happened twice. The best score on my team was 4/12 400ish wp It's disheartening to get shite stomped so hard you can't even really play the game It's disheartening when your corp just recruits new players who aren't getting enough training. No offense, but your corp is like a zerg squad. Beyond that tactic, I see guys die brutally from FWA all the time. You really need to take this up with your CEO or start joining well developed corps in squads so your guys can learn. I am willing to even start having special events where we can pool newer players together and have meetings discussing tactics and have squad runs. I am totally serious about that. New or recent born mercs need to unlearn what they have learned from other FPS titles and be taught from the ground up. If you like this idea, discuss it with your corporation and lets make things happen Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Delanus Turgias Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 222	Posted - 2014.02.01 21:02:00 - [97] - Quote For the record, this entire thread is disgusting. I always knew the protobears were a little bit autistic, but this is so, so far beyond what I imagined. He's literally complaining about winning. He pretends his protostomping isn't even part of the problem (hint hint: it is, dumbass), and then he has the balls to complain about how players resort to the only effective tactic for low SP, non-ringing non-PC Corp characters against his kind. He thinks it's a mentality problem, and he's right. The protobear mentality is killing this game, and if only it was killing you monstrous bastardi. He claims that his "experiments" where he was just as successful in non-proto gear as in protogear justify his abuse of high-level gear. He's so far off the mark that I don't believe he's even capable of understanding why he's wrong. And then all these other bittervets come in agreeing with him, going as far to say that they should get more ISK for protostomping and the losers should get less for not being capable of countering. You assholes are killing the game. Just stop, for ****'s sake. Stop. Closed Beta Vet since July, 2012 TEST Alliance Best Alliance Proud owner of essentially every BPO in Dust
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2977	Posted - 2014.02.01 21:14:00 - [98] - Quote Alot of things are killing the game. Let's just be honest here. We are all are responsible. We are a community, are we not? Then let's start building the community. It's that simple. But the most difficult part is pooling humans together for a common cause. In this day and age, humans hardly ever do that and just rather complain about ** instead of fixing ** Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
mollerz Minja Scouts 2203	Posted - 2014.02.01 21:29:00 - [99] - Quote Th3rdSun wrote: +1 for using the term "goat rodeo". It's almost like I have a real life alter ego that wrote this post. I'd have said 3 legged goat rodeo, but literally, certain communities here are the fourth leg. This game would remained deleted, for me, were it not for the cool people in the scouting community. Not to say other niches in this game don't have their cool aspects. There are plenty of small corps filled with super cool people. Dust makes it relatively easy to hunt until you find people you click with. they do their best to **** it up, but it's good enough. For example, with 1.7 you spend no time in the war barge going into pub matches. Wut? Who's idiotic idea was that? That person should no longer be allowed to make decisions because that single change crippled new players, or old, to find a squad and play. Typically, once you find a good squad in this manner, you tend to stick with them. You end up talking smack, having fun, and boom friendships are born. Couple this change with the fact it takes upwards of 10 seconds to fill the team channel and it's impossible to get into a squad right away. You are literally left to choose between partaking in the match from jump or painfully trying to see if there might be a good squad to join. As far as the protostomper players- There is no doubt in my mind that these are crutch players. Take away their proto equipment and put them in ADV suits and they will not win as much.Their K/D will drop. They know it. We all know it. They can deny it, but sorry, no one is buying it. I was in a match the other day.. 4 vs 8. Us four were running basic or ADV gear (save my knives- that's right two minjas) and the other team brought in two blaster tanks and all proto gear. 2-1 odds, and they still needed proto gear and tanks to compete against two BPO suits and two minjas. We got a few kills, and they eventually won. Not a big surprise, and I had fun. I did send one of the tankers a message letting him know his odds, and asked if he could put the tank away. He said no. Because he was pure tanker. Let me spell out how the protostomping team played: 2 blaster tanks 6 proto bears vs. 2 BPO heavies 2 ADV Minjas So babar- what would you say about that match? How about the tanker who said, nah. I won't get out of my tank in this kind of match? I do not see how any new players would tolerate this crap. I made an alt to take part in a certain corp, and tried out the academy. OMG what a fuckin joke. I told a few buddies to make toons and let em sit in the small chance this garbage transforms and it's worth playing. I tried getting a friend involved as an00b. It is impossible for him. He has nothing, I can't even give him anything to help out . I have all my ISK locked up in gear I can't use, but can't sell either. We are all just wallowing. So he parked his toon. Basically a lost player. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Ayures II Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 356	Posted - 2014.02.01 21:34:00 - [100] - Quote Delanus Turgias wrote: For the record, this entire thread is disgusting. I always knew the protobears were a little bit autistic, but this is so, so far beyond what I imagined. He's literally complaining about winning. He pretends his protostomping isn't even part of the problem (hint hint: it is, dumbass), and then he has the balls to complain about how players resort to the only effective tactic for low SP, non-ringing non-PC Corp characters against his kind. He thinks it's a mentality problem, and he's right. The protobear mentality is killing this game, and if only it was killing you monstrous bastardi. He claims that his "experiments" where he was just as successful in non-proto gear as in protogear justify his abuse of high-level gear. He's so far off the mark that I don't believe he's even capable of understanding why he's wrong. And then all these other bittervets come in agreeing with him, going as far to say that they should get more ISK for protostomping and the losers should get less for not being capable of countering. You assholes are killing the game. Just stop, for ****'s sake. Stop. http://i.imgur.com/OjyRzJQ.gif

BLACKSTAR AND TSUBAKI SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 160	Posted - 2014.02.01 21:47:00 - [101] - Quote i belive this is the higher level scrubs who get all of their "tryhardedness" out in Pc and dont care bout wining or loosing pubs also this is a characteristic that is the diference of scub and good player
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1004	Posted - 2014.02.01 21:49:00 - [102] - Quote Shadow Archeus wrote: I believe that winning a match should yield more isk while losing should give some more sp..... Kind of like your character learning from mistakes in battle I don't know much about the payout system but if wp is used to calculate isk AND so then I propose the following Winning rewards 50% more isk from wp Losing rewards 50% more sp from wp There should be MARGINAL difference: enough to think "hey it's better to win, let's keep on going" and not enough difference to cause leaver epidemic. Trust me, leavers will ruin games when it becomes something profitable. FEEDBACK: Analysis on 1.7 tank functionality
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 127	Posted - 2014.02.01 21:56:00 - [103] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: I'm appalled at the increasing of soft cored mercenaries that are multiplying. It wasn't always like this. We had the tears but now it just seems like an over abundance of kindergarten fighters in futuristic dropsuits. Its like folks haven't played other FPS MP that has slaughtered them upon first entry. Yes, New Eden is a jagged pill to swallow but if I and so many others have done it, how come they can not? Because in Dust it is so much harder to level up equipment and abilities, the differential is wider, takes longer to close and is ever growing. The situation will only get worse, it is harder now for new players than when I started 3 months ago and if you started 6 months ago it was easier, if you've been playing longer you really won't understand.
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 127	Posted - 2014.02.01 21:59:00 - [104] - Quote I HateMyFace wrote: So I played you today king. And I always go hard in the paint trust me. I suck and I'm probably the worst commando ever but I try. Less than halfway through the match my team was pigeon holed at our last uplink. I tried to run and grab another point but if I even moved from cover the two tanks on the hill would murder me instantly. If I ran around the other direction 8 would be cut down by your teammates. I tried changing my fits and tactics but I could barely stay alive for more than 60 seconds before I saw your proto suit come around the corner and own me. Props to you. You're good. But you redlined my team. And they couldn't even come out from behind the red line hill we were all behind to even try to retaliate. I did manage to sneak away and throw down an uplink. My team started spawning on it then all of a sudden 1 OB tore my entire team to shreds. This happened twice. The best score on my team was 4/12 400ish wp It's disheartening to get shite stomped so hard you can't even really play the game And if this were more of the exception rather than the rule this wouldn't be the problem it is.
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 127	Posted - 2014.02.01 22:06:00 - [105] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Alot of things are killing the game. Let's just be honest here. We are all are responsible. We are a community, are we not? Then let's start building the community. It's that simple. But the most difficult part is pooling humans together for a common cause. In this day and age, humans hardly ever do that and just rather complain about ** instead of fixing You need to realize though that in the case of a person stomping the ** out of another person the solution can really only lie with the stomper, the stompee is already doing everything they can to not get stomped. Do you think they like it? Get Gud is not a solution, HTFU is not a solution.
I HateMyFace FACTION WARFARE ARMY 65	Posted - 2014.02.01 22:27:00 - [106] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: I HateMyFace wrote: So I played you today king. And I always go hard in the paint trust me. I suck and I'm probably the worst commando ever but I try. Less than halfway through the match my team was pigeon holed at our last uplink. I tried to run and grab another point but if I even moved from cover the two tanks on the hill would murder me instantly. If I ran around the other direction 8 would be cut down by your teammates. I tried changing my fits and tactics but I could barely stay alive for more than 60 seconds before I saw your proto suit come around the corner and own me. Props to you. You're good. But you redlined my team. And they couldn't even come out from behind the red line hill we were all behind to even try to retaliate. I did manage to sneak away and throw down an uplink. My team started spawning on it then all of a sudden 1 OB tore my entire team to shreds. This happened twice. The best score on my team was 4/12 400ish wp It's disheartening to get shite stomped so hard you can't even really play the game It's disheartening when your corp just recruits new players who aren't getting enough training. No offense, but your corp is like a zerg squad. Beyond that tactic, I see guys die brutally from FWA all the time. You really need to take this up with your CEO or start joining well developed corps in squads so your guys can learn. I am willing to even start having special events where we can pool newer players together and have meetings discussing tactics and have squad runs. I am totally serious about that. New or recent born mercs need to unlearn what they have learned from other FPS titles and be taught from the ground up. If you like this idea, discuss it with your corporation and lets make things happen Well first of all your assuming I'm a new player and I am not. Secondly my corporation has nothing to do with any of this. And I will say there is constant training going on. Honestly the only reason I joined Is because I came back from a year away from this game and found that my corporation no longer existed and FWA has a friendly enviroment. And if it's about a lack of trying... People don't just quit trying like you claim. They get raped into a hole and can't clime out so they retreat in an attempt to find more favorable ground. Sometimes people end up red line sniping because they are trying to stop hemorrhaging isk. The only reason I'm posting here is because the OP is being kind of hypocritical that's all. That's all I was trying to point out.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 2889	Posted - 2014.02.01 23:09:00 - [107] - Quote Meee One wrote: Nothing here but bitter vets wanting to rob noobs of any chance of competing. And?
Zerus Ni'Kator Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 186	Posted - 2014.02.01 23:42:00 - [108] - Quote KingBabar wrote: As I've said before, I'm so very tired of the constant stomping and can't really see any better way of upping the action than go in in small groups, mostly 2-4 dudes per squad. This way we can't be all over the battlefield, there will always be an unguarded point etc. This means that we most of the time have players on the field to fight and we don't have to stand on the redline. It also means we'll get some truly awsome fights when we're up against stacked teams. You know, FUN! So yeserday this is what we do. We're 3 players and we mostly played dom. And a trend was starting to reveal itself. Many corps and groups of players were "stuck in our queue", meaning that they were in our games for 2 hours more or less. So when put on our team they bring out their ARs, LAVs and playing the point and trying to win, nothing new about that. The next game, when facing us, they never even leave the redline. And here we're talking about 6 dudes from the same corp a corp thats been here since beta ffs, all bringing out their snipers to sort of spite us I believe. And yes I do indeed see the joy in that. Off course this leads to a very boring game for us and I would believe the other 10 dudes having their prime group of that battle not taking part. And this repeated itself more or less several times with various groups of players. I remember back in the early days of MAG, my first competitive shooter. I had a scrub clan, with scrubby players, myself included. We were normally very happy if we could do a game and not go negative KDR wise. So back then also, our little group of rag tag scrubs and houswives were set up against Q-synced teams from the best corps in the game. And what did we do? We faught them with nails and teeth. We played as tight as we could, pure combat updates/tactics on coms. In short: we did all that we could and tried to make our organization count towards beating players with way better gungame. Trying to get into 2 vs 1 scenarios. Trying to outflank and hit one spot with our 8 man squad etc. Naturally we mostly failed horribly. We got stomped over and over. Slowly but steadily our performance got better, we got respected and eventually became a factor in MAG. This was mostly the trend in MAG, most battles were filled with fierce competition, or at least thats what my rosie memories tell me.... This is far from the average situation in Dust. This goes for both the less skilled and the pro tryhards. I've been in group with and seen so many players with 5+ KDR leave battles or spawn back into the warbarge as soon as the fighting gets though. The scrubs hide out for different reasons than the tryhards, they're mstly interrested in saving that KDR, they can put up a fight but just can't be bothered. Both of these mentalitie doesn't go well with me. Fighting agaist better players, do you really think that its benefitial for your learning curve to: Stay at the redline sniping? Stay at some high point, a house or rail or whatever, taking the occational pot shot? You know popping your head up and shoot somone in the back while he's engaged in ground fighting... Same goes for the perifferee hero, sirkling the outskirts with a RR or Scr. Same goes for the logibro suddenly calling in a tank and drives aimlessly around. And so on. Why don't you people try to better yourself? Why don't you form up, wait for each other and try to blitz the point from various angles? Are you really content with having an evasive doctrine vs any good team you play? Really? IMO the Dust community is the worst I have seen in terms of player skill and cheap "lets make the game boring" tactics. Way too few try to fight the odds and improve their gungame and tactics, its just safer and better to get defensive, even if the current battlfield dictates that you'll attack or lose the game. Conclusion: Isk payout and perhaps even skillpoints should be affected by winning or losing a battle. This difference should be large enough to matter. At least a 3 to 1 difference. Hopefully this will lead to a mental shift of the general community giving us back more intense and fun battles, and that is the most important improvement of Dust IMO. 4 people in your squad 2 in madrugars 1 in an assault dropship and you in full proto Thats what you were running last time I played against you I told you and your corp 2 months ago that if you continue to protostomp pub games no1 will play against you and I even implored new and intermediate players to just sit in the redline and snipe against you just so they don't give you the satisfaction of killing them Seeing as your complaining about it now then clearly people listened to me and you know what ... its brilliant ... Protostomping new players isn't the easy stat padding it used to be .. players are learning that they don't have to take part if they don't want too ... Your corp is boring to fight against and seeing as I refuse to use proto in pubgames then there is no way I'll ever fight you in a balanced match .. alot of ppl share this mentality .. games are supposed to be fun if you know the game is going to be boring because x x x x are on the other team then .. you aren't obligated to play .. so don't Hate to say this but .. Pub games are meaningless it doesn't matter if you win or lose .. this is why its stupid to use your best possible gear in such a pointless gamemode
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1515	Posted - 2014.02.01 23:58:00 - [109] - Quote Well peeps, there's a lot of good content in this thread as well as a lot of frustration. Solving the multiple problems we're talking about here won't be easy because there are multiple flawed or failed game systems/mechanics that are feeding directly into these problems. But a fundamental starting point for the conversation has to be that we stop blaming players. Regardless of actions or squads or protogear, players are not, cannot be the problem. Responsibility for these problems lies with the game mechanics, and responsibility for the game mechanics belongs 100% to the DUST dev team and CCP as a whole. It would be a tough design problem for any developer, there are problems inherent in setting an FPS in New Eden that no developer on the planet has faced before. I'm going to try and rank these in terms of importance: DUST is an FPS where differences in personal player skill are magnified by MMO skills. We can expect that this will be a very delicate balancing act, but I think we've already go enough evidence to know that it could be made to work. CCP got the most important thing right here: skills give linear benefits but have geometric costs. DUST is(or will be) both an arcadey lobby shooter(it pretty much has to be to get new players into the game) and simultaneously an ultra-hardcore resource-driven geopolitical economic and military simulator. At the moment we have both these groups crammed together in pub matches - It's really just a pit with rabid genetically engineered war-dogs thrown in with a flock of hand-fed spring lambs and just as ugly as you would expect that to be. This is due to several factors: multiple failed game modes, missing content and flawed mechanics. DUST is an economic simulator, which is a great long-term strength but also serves to magnify the frustrations generated in players by points 1 & 2 listed above. DUST is a combined-arms game. The synergies available to teams willing to think and experiment are tremendous. How do we allow player creativity and teamwork and simultaneously maintain good gameplay for all concerned? Another tough problem. As much as peeps call DUST a generic FPS, it has a lot of game-specific knowledge that is essential for a new player to survive and prosper. How do we get peeps who are coming in out of very different gaming cultures to stick it out long enough that there is enough time to get some New Eden education into them? There's more, but that's enough. It's a hard problem for the playerbase, it's a hard problem for CCP. It's fitting the sandbox into a lobby shooter. It's a hard problem for anybody or any developer. Where does the solution look like? Nobody knows yet. But i do think i know how it starts. For us, the players, we have to stop blaming each other for destructive mechanics that CCP has designed and is intentionally leaving in the game. For CCP it involves our new EP, CCP Rouge, forcibly extracting CCP's head from it's arse. That can't be an easy job and i'm sure that by now he's into it elbows-deep and has feet firmly planted on fleshy corporate buttocks. I just hope to god somebody high up in head office is in there pulling with him. I support SP rollover.
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2977	Posted - 2014.02.02 00:40:00 - [110] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Michael Arck wrote: I'm appalled at the increasing of soft cored mercenaries that are multiplying. It wasn't always like this. We had the tears but now it just seems like an over abundance of kindergarten fighters in futuristic dropsuits. Its like folks haven't played other FPS MP that has slaughtered them upon first entry. Yes, New Eden is a jagged pill to swallow but if I and so many others have done it, how come they can not? Because in Dust it is so much harder to level up equipment and abilities, the differential is wider, takes longer to close and is ever growing. The situation will only get worse, it is harder now for new players than when I started 3 months ago and if you started 6 months ago it was easier, if you've been playing longer you really won't understand. Yea because I can't remember how it was when I first started. Please, I understand greatly. When we were rookies, we didn't cry as much as you guys are doing now on the forums. The main argument was protostomping. Other than that, we didn't seek ways to have the game assist us in getting better. We aligned with established corps, asked questions, squad up with more experience players to help keep us from dying much-we made a substantial effort to be a lethal factor in New Eden. It's not much harder to level up. It takes longer. There's a difference. Plus, you guys have a wide variety of choice when it comes to weapons and dropsuits...compared to when I got here and you had few items...all that were used by vets that tore us to shreds. Its not hard to play a few matches, gain some SP, let some passive SP gain, (can't even forget that you guys now get daily bonuses compared to when we didn't get any daily bonuses) and to level up some core skills that will give you some more time on the field. Not forgetting that you can pick up a lvl 1 weapon besides miltia and get going. It doesn't take long to get a GEK, a CR or a RR. All three weapons are critical to your success I understand its rough but its not as bad as it once were. Stop playing so many ambushes. All new players just run to ambush. Play dom where the SP stacks, you can join random squads, and you won't die as quick cause not all the mercs are in your face. There you will learn strategy and such. So I don't understand sometimes. If you have the will to succeed, you will succeed. There are ways to get around it rookies, you have to want it instead of having it given to you. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]

Drud Green Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 209	Posted - 2014.02.02 01:33:00 - [111] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Michael Arck wrote: I'm appalled at the increasing of soft cored mercenaries that are multiplying. It wasn't always like this. We had the tears but now it just seems like an over abundance of kindergarten fighters in futuristic dropsuits. Its like folks haven't played other FPS MP that has slaughtered them upon first entry. Yes, New Eden is a jagged pill to swallow but if I and so many others have done it, how come they can not? Because in Dust it is so much harder to level up equipment and abilities, the differential is wider, takes longer to close and is ever growing. The situation will only get worse, it is harder now for new players than when I started 3 months ago and if you started 6 months ago it was easier, if you've been playing longer you really won't understand. Yea because I can't remember how it was when I first started. Please, I understand greatly. When we were rookies, we didn't cry as much as you guys are doing now on the forums. The main argument was protostomping. Other than that, we didn't seek ways to have the game assist us in getting better. We aligned with established corps, asked questions, squad up with more experience players to help keep us from dying much-we made a substantial effort to be a lethal factor in New Eden. It's not much harder to level up. It takes longer. There's a difference. Plus, you guys have a wide variety of choice when it comes to weapons and dropsuits...compared to when I got here and you had few items...all that were used by vets that tore us to shreds. Its not hard to play a few matches, gain some SP, let some passive SP gain, (can't even forget that you guys now get daily bonuses compared to when we didn't get any daily bonuses) and to level up some core skills that will give you some more time on the field. Not forgetting that you can pick up a lvl 1 weapon besides miltia and get going. It doesn't take long to get a GEK, a CR or a RR. All three weapons are critical to your success I understand its rough but its not as bad as it once were. Stop playing so many ambushes. All new players just run to ambush. Play dom where the SP stacks, you can join random squads, and you won't die as quick cause not all the mercs are in your face. There you will learn strategy and such. So I don't understand sometimes. If you have the will to succeed, you will succeed. There are ways to get around it rookies, you have to want it instead of having it given to you. Dust is a broken fps that fk all people play. "will to succeed" are you ***** joking? Get yor head out of your ass you ***** numpty.
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 839	Posted - 2014.02.02 01:42:00 - [112] - Quote Yeah, gotta love the protostomper saying everyone else isn't trying hard enough. Sorry that YOU'RE killing noobs in militia gear by Q-syncing and stacking 6-16 people in YOUR favor to win. Then saying that those randoms aren't trying hard enough when you're using the best versions of the most OP gear in the game. Here's an idea: que solo and only use your freebie fit from your noob days. doing well? great. now fight 12 protostompers, basically alone because your team has suddenly all decided to take up sniping. in your militia suit. then again, unless CCP gets off their "we need at least a week an a half a month of off time" ass and does something to even remotely balance this game, in about 6 months, it'll be nothing but a circlejerk of you protostomping ****s. and you'll finally have your "balanced" fights since you won't have any noobs left to stomp. then the servers will be shut down because only about 40 odd people are playing the game anymore. If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2979	Posted - 2014.02.02 01:46:00 - [113] - Quote Drud Green wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Michael Arck wrote: I'm appalled at the increasing of soft cored mercenaries that are multiplying. It wasn't always like this. We had the tears but now it just seems like an over abundance of kindergarten fighters in futuristic dropsuits. Its like folks haven't played other FPS MP that has slaughtered them upon first entry. Yes, New Eden is a jagged pill to swallow but if I and so many others have done it, how come they can not? Because in Dust it is so much harder to level up equipment and abilities, the differential is wider, takes longer to close and is ever growing. The situation will only get worse, it is harder now for new players than when I started 3 months ago and if you started 6 months ago it was easier, if you've been playing longer you really won't understand. Yea because I can't remember how it was when I first started. Please, I understand greatly. When we were rookies, we didn't cry as much as you guys are doing now on the forums. The main argument was protostomping. Other than that, we didn't seek ways to have the game assist us in getting better. We aligned with established corps, asked questions, squad up with more experience players to help keep us from dying much-we made a substantial effort to be a lethal factor in New Eden. It's not much harder to level up. It takes longer. There's a difference. Plus, you guys have a wide variety of choice when it comes to weapons and dropsuits...compared to when I got here and you had few items...all that were used by vets that tore us to shreds. Its not hard to play a few matches, gain some SP, let some passive SP gain, (can't even forget that you guys now get daily bonuses compared to when we didn't get any daily bonuses) and to level up some core skills that will give you some more time on the field. Not forgetting that you can pick up a lvl 1 weapon besides miltia and get going. It doesn't take long to get a GEK, a CR or a RR. All three weapons are critical to your success I understand its rough but its not as bad as it once were. Stop playing so many ambushes. All new players just run to ambush. Play dom where the SP stacks, you can join random squads, and you won't die as quick cause not all the mercs are in your face. There you will learn strategy and such. So I don't understand sometimes. If you have the will to succeed, you will succeed. There are ways to get around it rookies, you have to want it instead of having it given to you. Dust is a broken fps that fk all people play. "will to succeed" are you ***** joking? Get your head out of your ass you ***** numpty. Calm down your aggressive behavior. It creates no type of constructive discussion. If Dust is so broken then why do you bother with the forums? Dust has its ups and downs but I enjoy the game. But the subject is not about the game, its about players who like to play Dust but are upset with their current skillsets. That's the subject of the thread. Not your personal rag tag opinion on Dust and me. Try to be less of a raging 12 year old and more of an educated adult, if that's possible. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Drud Green Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 209	Posted - 2014.02.02 02:13:00 - [114] - Quote Such a delicate flower.
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1734	Posted - 2014.02.02 02:52:00 - [115] - Quote Delanus Turgias wrote: For the record, this entire thread is disgusting. I always knew the protobears were a little bit autistic, but this is so, so far beyond what I imagined. He's literally complaining about winning. He pretends his protostomping isn't even part of the problem (hint hint: it is, dumbass), and then he has the balls to complain about how players resort to the only effective tactic for low SP, non-ringing non-PC Corp characters against his kind. He thinks it's a mentality problem, and he's right. The protobear mentality is killing this game, and if only it was killing you monstrous bastardi. He claims that his "experiments" where he was just as successful in non-proto gear as in protogear justify his abuse of high-level gear. He's so far off the mark that I don't believe he's even capable of understanding why he's wrong. And then all these other bittervets come in agreeing with him, going as far to say that they should get more ISK for protostomping and the losers should get less for not being capable of countering. You assholes are killing the game. Just stop, for ****'s sake. Stop. Perhaps you need to up that reading comprehension of yours. I'm talking about a string of games 2 days ago where 3 of us faced a 6 man squad from a corp that has been here since early Beta. The so called "intermediate to experienced" playerbase, I'm not talking about a scenario where we have 6 + another 6 from another tryhard corp is put against 16 dudes coming straight from the academy. If you read through the thread you'll also see that the isk part is rejected in favor of a removal of passive ingame WP gain and any sort of redline WP gain. Basically: if you're not active doing anything worthwhile you'll get less SPs. We've also come to the conclusion that killing a proto fit with a militia fit should grant much isk and killing a militia fit with proto should grant next to no reward. Try and be constructive and read stuff twice if you can't get the neuances in one reading, try and be constructive instead of that sort of blatant QQ. Thank you. http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1734	Posted - 2014.02.02 03:08:00 - [116] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: Yeah, gotta love the protostomper saying everyone else isn't trying hard enough. Sorry that YOU'RE killing noobs in militia gear by Q-syncing and stacking 6-16 people in YOUR favor to win. Then saying that those randoms aren't trying hard enough when you're using the best versions of the most OP gear in the game. Here's an idea: que solo and only use your freebie fit from your noob days. doing well? great. now fight 12 protostompers, basically alone because your team has suddenly all decided to take up sniping. in your militia suit. then again, unless CCP gets off their "we need at least a week an a half a month of off time" ass and does something to even remotely balance this game, in about 6 months, it'll be nothing but a circlejerk of you protostomping ****s. and you'll finally have your "balanced" fights since you won't have any noobs left to stomp. then the servers will be shut down because only about 40 odd people are playing the game anymore. Perhaps you need to up that reading comprehension of yours. I'm talking about a string of games 2 days ago where 3 of us faced a 6 man squad from a corp that has been here since early Beta. The so called "intermediate to experienced" playerbase, I'm not talking about a scenario where we have 6 + another 6 from another tryhard corp is put against 16 dudes coming straight from the academy. If you read through the thread you'll also see that the isk part is rejected in favor of a removal of passive ingame WP gain and any sort of redline WP gain. Basically: if you're not active doing anything worthwhile you'll get less SPs. We've also come to the conclusion that killing a proto fit with a militia fit should grant much isk and killing a militia fit with proto should grant next to no reward. Try and be constructive and read stuff twice if you can't get the neuances in one reading, try and be constructive instead of that sort of blatant QQ. Thank you. http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 839	Posted - 2014.02.02 03:12:00 - [117] - Quote How's about you actually come up with more than boiler plate insults? I prefer to be insulted on a personal level. I know you guys have no individuality with your gun or suit choices, but people really take better to being insulted or argued with based on what was said, rather than a double posted boilerplate response. So again, you want to protostomp harder, add more disincentives for noobs, and basically kill the game in favor of feeling big by killing crappy suits. If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2983	Posted - 2014.02.02 03:20:00 - [118] - Quote These discussions never end well... Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1735	Posted - 2014.02.02 03:30:00 - [119] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: How's about you actually come up with more than boiler plate insults? I prefer to be insulted on a personal level. I know you guys have no individuality with your gun or suit choices, but people really take better to being insulted or argued with based on what was said, rather than a double posted boilerplate response. So again, you want to protostomp harder, add more disincentives for noobs, and basically kill the game in favor of feeling big by killing crappy suits. 1. You claim that we're Qsyncing to stack our team. This has as far as I know never happened. This is a blatant lie on your part or a mere un-educated guess as to what we do. Get your facts straight. Besides, as mentioned, this is about when 3 of us face a 6 man squad from a corp thats been here since early beta, they never left the redline the entire game. 2. When I left SI I had it really rough mostly playing against stacked proto teams solo. My KDR and wallet did drop, a lot. But you never saw me running from a fight and start to snipe or whatever just to pad my stats. In a period of about 3 months I lost 200 million isk and my KDR dropped from over 7 to a little over 5, in this case I have definately been practicing what I've been preaching. 3. You say you know "you have no individuality with your gun choice" do you care to elaborate on this? Yet again you toss out an assumption you know nothing about, and on top of it you expect me to take you seriously and come up with a proper responce. 4. You refer to a scenario where most of your team gets stomped and starts to redline snipe and your left alone to push the points. And there lies the nature of my issue, what if these dudes hadn't given up so fast and actually tried and co-ordinate and push? So is it just the protobears fault? Or is there some thruth to the fact that people's defeatist attitudes has a sort of snowball effect on itself? - And another point entirely. I wouldn't have made this thread if PC wasn't so damned ****** up. I used to play 3-5 PC games every night but now 90% is locked and I'm lucky to get 1 game a week. By fixing PC more vet players would stay of the pub games making it much easier for new players to avoid the big stomps. http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
Meeko Fent State Patriots 1737	Posted - 2014.02.02 04:26:00 - [120] - Quote Sigh. PEOPLE IN MILITIA AND STANDARD ARE GOING TO GET KILLED NO MATTER ***** WHAT BY PROTOBEARS. NO ***** MATTER WHAT. If somebody with good GG kills you, its all good. If a Bear with all proto kills you even though you landed every shot and started firing first, kills you, that's when people take to the forums and "QQ"s over radically imbalanced tiers. Because the tiers are radically unbalancing. No amount of teamwork and Voice chat will refute that a q-sync'd team of all proto vs. a Random team of standards will be one-sided. In order to give new players the chance they need, it needs to come a age of tiericide, where SP and gear only accounts for niche, not effectiveness. DUST is a half decent game. Be happy its free.

Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 839	Posted - 2014.02.02 04:51:00 - [121] - Quote 1. this is what happens with protostomps. You protostomp, ergo you do this. not really a faulty assumption on my part as it is part and parcel of any "good"(they're not actually good in a lot of cases) protostomper's repertoire. 2. good for you, now do this when you consider 1mil+ to be good cash on hand and assault rifle 3 is your highest skill. instead of with 200 million to lose and pc built SP. 3. Protostompers use only the most OP combinations of suits and gear. You protostomp, ergo you use the current "best" (proto gal-logi or heavy. with the RR as your gun) again not a faulty assumption as all the "good" protostomper's do it as the baseline. 4. you think any of these randoms has a mic? or even has voice chat on(it's off by default, remember?) or in the team channel? I couldn't coordinate them if I tried. I can only hope to inspire one of them to follow me into the meat grinder and maybe kill one of those proto suits that these guys can afford to lose hundreds of thousands of fits for. Sorry that I didn't account for your sub-optimal stomping. If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4306	Posted - 2014.02.02 05:20:00 - [122] - Quote KingBabar wrote: As I've said before, I'm so very tired of the constant stomping and can't really see any better way of upping the action than go in in small groups, mostly 2-4 dudes per squad. This way we can't be all over the battlefield, there will always be an unguarded point etc. This means that we most of the time have players on the field to fight and we don't have to stand on the redline. It also means we'll get some truly awsome fights when we're up against stacked teams. You know, FUN! So yeserday this is what we do. We're 3 players and we mostly played dom. And a trend was starting to reveal itself. Many corps and groups of players were "stuck in our queue", meaning that they were in our games for 2 hours more or less. So when put on our team they bring out their ARs, LAVs and playing the point and trying to win, nothing new about that. The next game, when facing us, they never even leave the redline. And here we're talking about 6 dudes from the same corp a corp thats been here since beta ffs, all bringing out their snipers to sort of spite us I believe. And yes I do indeed see the joy in that. Off course this leads to a very boring game for us and I would believe the other 10 dudes having their prime group of that battle not taking part. And this repeated itself more or less several times with various groups of players. I remember back in the early days of MAG, my first competitive shooter. I had a scrub clan, with scrubby players, myself included. We were normally very happy if we could do a game and not go negative KDR wise. So back then also, our little group of rag tag scrubs and houswives were set up against Q-synced teams from the best corps in the game. And what did we do? We faught them with nails and teeth. We played as tight as we could, pure combat updates/tactics on coms. In short: we did all that we could and tried to make our organization count towards beating players with way better gungame. Trying to get into 2 vs 1 scenarios. Trying to outflank and hit one spot with our 8 man squad etc. Naturally we mostly failed horribly. We got stomped over and over. Slowly but steadily our performance got better, we got respected and eventually became a factor in MAG. This was mostly the trend in MAG, most battles were filled with fierce competition, or at least thats what my rosie memories tell me.... This is far from the average situation in Dust. This goes for both the less skilled and the pro tryhards. I've been in group with and seen so many players with 5+ KDR leave battles or spawn back into the warbarge as soon as the fighting gets though. The scrubs hide out for different reasons than the tryhards, they're mstly interrested in saving that KDR, they can put up a fight but just can't be bothered. Both of these mentalitie doesn't go well with me. Fighting agaist better players, do you really think that its benefitial for your learning curve to: Stay at the redline sniping? Stay at some high point, a house or rail or whatever, taking the occational pot shot? You know popping your head up and shoot somone in the back while he's engaged in ground fighting... Same goes for the perifferee hero, sirkling the outskirts with a RR or Scr. Same goes for the logibro suddenly calling in a tank and drives aimlessly around. And so on. Why don't you people try to better yourself? Why don't you form up, wait for each other and try to blitz the point from various angles? Are you really content with having an evasive doctrine vs any good team you play? Really? IMO the Dust community is the worst I have seen in terms of player skill and cheap "lets make the game boring" tactics. Way too few try to fight the odds and improve their gungame and tactics, its just safer and better to get defensive, even if the current battlfield dictates that you'll attack or lose the game. Conclusion: Isk payout and perhaps even skillpoints should be affected by winning or losing a battle. This difference should be large enough to matter. At least a 3 to 1 difference. Hopefully this will lead to a mental shift of the general community giving us back more intense and fun battles, and that is the most important improvement of Dust IMO. GÖª I only leave games if they are already started. Sometimes even if we are winning GÖª I've used proto gear around 20 times TOTAL in my life (not counting Mk.0 Light frame BUT C'mon...) GÖª If i feel all hope is lost (i play mostly ALONE) i try to annoy the enemy while getting sneak kills and providing up-links GÖª Never stayed in the Red Line GÖª My Worst death game, was a 70-32 in FW (yea i died 32 times , more than some people can kill XD) GÖª A little while back , when FW was a little more broken, i fought countless 1 vs 16 matches in the name of amarr. This talks a lot about myself i think....... AceOfJokers666 [ + ] AimBot / VALOR / MAG \| YOU EITHER LOVE BACON OR YOU ARE WRONG
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1811	Posted - 2014.02.02 05:21:00 - [123] - Quote OP: my you opened up quite the can of worms didn't you? Part of the problem is that a lot of us misread it and thought it was a typical try hard "git gut scrubs" post. (My bad). But, the bigger problem for me was the suggestion that losing sides should get no reward, which I think you now realize is not a great idea. Personally, moreso than some complex formula including redline activities, WP, ISK loss, meta level, etc etc, I think a more basic system of rewards based on the following is an easier way to do it (keep it simple for CCPs lolcoders!) - the amount of ISK you destroyed (or maybe meta level) - your rank on your team - a small bonus for winning, maybe 10-15%, enough to incentivize it but not enough to make wealth disparity worse than it already is. - if you want to make a special provision of no ISK reward for a 0/0/0 result, I'm cool with that. That plus a more comprehensive end of match summary with an ISK lost/destroyed stat would go a long way towards easing the frustration of the "stompees" p.s. Those who say we all got stomped when we we noobs, yes we were, but you can't be serious about the stomping being this bad back in beta. There's no way; going up against 2 full proto squads in a pub was unheard of back then! "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.1 Amarr victor!
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 417	Posted - 2014.02.02 05:29:00 - [124] - Quote KingBabar wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: Delta90212 wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: You and your crew are notorious for stomping! GTFO. Why the hate? Because of his first line on this thread.... "As I've said before, I'm so very tired of the constant stomping and can't really see any better way of upping the action" Pot calling the kettle black me thinks. Here we are actually doing an effort to reduse the stomp and by extension making it a more inclusive ga,e and you bring this up. Do you expect us to merely give our clones away? if your tired of stomping then dont try to improve your odds dont get me wrong still try hard but make it more fair dont squad except with blueberries use std Proud Christian one of the most essential parts of eve is left out of dust: freedom, exploration, open-world gameplay.
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 123	Posted - 2014.02.02 06:39:00 - [125] - Quote I'm about sick of hearing about mag. this isn't mag. No one cares about mag, game flopped, was poorly received and shut the servers off because no one played it lol.
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1739	Posted - 2014.02.02 06:51:00 - [126] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: 1. this is what happens with protostomps. You protostomp, ergo you do this. not really a faulty assumption on my part as it is part and parcel of any "good"(they're not actually good in a lot of cases) protostomper's repertoire. 2. good for you, now do this when you consider 1mil+ to be good cash on hand and assault rifle 3 is your highest skill. instead of with 200 million to lose and pc built SP. 3. Protostompers use only the most OP combinations of suits and gear. You protostomp, ergo you use the current "best" (proto gal-logi or heavy. with the RR as your gun) again not a faulty assumption as all the "good" protostomper's do it as the baseline. 4. you think any of these randoms has a mic? or even has voice chat on(it's off by default, remember?) or in the team channel? I couldn't coordinate them if I tried. I can only hope to inspire one of them to follow me into the meat grinder and maybe kill one of those proto suits that these guys can afford to lose hundreds of thousands of fits for. Sorry that I didn't account for your sub-optimal stomping. Again you missunderstand my entire OP. This whole thread is about experienced players staying an entire game in the redline, we're talking about dudes thats been playing for 1-1.5 years. We had 3 Rainbows on one side and a bunch of randoms, they had a squad of 6. When they were on our team they pushed and played but only sniped when put against us. http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 839	Posted - 2014.02.02 07:50:00 - [127] - Quote Experienced players, who saw your performance in the previous matches, chose not to fight you because it would be a massive pain in the ass while they're trying to farm some isk and would definitely cost them a fairly hefty sum. You did not mention one instance of anyone else on your team or theirs being worth a damn. ergo, it would only be them fighting, which means only them losing cash for an entire team. So you have your answer. They chose not to fight you because it would hurt their bottom line. and optimizing your fit and skills is a hell of a lot different from picking a gallente logi, proto RR and popping a squat over some rep hives. one is a neat aspect of dust, the other is just plain sad because of people who do that have no skill beyond "USE THE OP BEFORE IT GETS NERFED!!!!!" I'm not saying you do this, but it's what "good" protostomping people do. Sorry for comparing you to people who are "good" at it. I will stop comparing you to people who are "good" at it. Try not to misinterpret my posting any further. I already pointed out that You as a protostomping tryhard were labeled with all the "good" ones. the gallente/heavy, RR, equipspam, stacktank, scanspinning, blob warfare types. I'll make a note that if I'm ever in a protostomp and I see you on the stomping side, your members are the weakest link as you aren't fully FOTM so I'll work you over as best I can, alone, since my blueberries will either be useless or feeding the "good" stompers. Protostompers do not want a fight. they are in it to pad their KDR and/or stroke their E-peen at the helpless noobs. If you want a fight, go pick caldari/amarr FW. If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
J0hlss0n Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 98	Posted - 2014.02.02 10:13:00 - [128] - Quote Regarding pure protstomping, how hard is it to look at the game from start, and if you are facing nothing but random people, use advanced gear at the most? Is that really to much to ask of people? I understand this mentality about "I've earned this, I got the isk and sp, Im running proto no matter what you say", but isnt it more fun if the game is a bit more leveled? Instead of a redline you get a game switching back and forth and people dont hide behind the redline or just bring out a sniper rifle? A close battle, rewarding you all with more points, kills or whatever you now are after, and if you (not pointing anyone special out, speaking to whoever this concerns) now truly are sucha beast player it doesnt matter what gear you're in, then I'm sure next time I go up against you I will be seeing you in Standard or Advanced gear at the most... If you find people are being pushed back so hard or not pushing at all, switch to advanced or less, at least in my case that makes the game more fun, I havent used proto gear (except for the assault forge, but thats because of the tank vs av situation right now) in pubs in forever now, I find it natural actually to use advanced at most in pubs and use proto in PC and FW, where the games are supposed to matter. But its pretty clear that this game NEEDS limits on the game modes, call it null sec or high sec, whatever, something needs to change so the new players, not being able to or can afford running proto, can play in to build up not only sp and isk but skills as well. A Ambush with no veichles and a limit up to advanced gear might help people out, but thats not all, this game and its gamemodes/matchmaking needs alot of work.... Because its very clear that the mentality of people will not change...
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 260	Posted - 2014.02.02 10:32:00 - [129] - Quote KingBabar wrote: As I've said before, I'm so very tired of the constant stomping and can't really see any better way of upping the action than go in in small groups, mostly 2-4 dudes per squad. This way we can't be all over the battlefield, there will always be an unguarded point etc. This means that we most of the time have players on the field to fight and we don't have to stand on the redline. It also means we'll get some truly awsome fights when we're up against stacked teams. You know, FUN! So yeserday this is what we do. We're 3 players and we mostly played dom. And a trend was starting to reveal itself. Many corps and groups of players were "stuck in our queue", meaning that they were in our games for 2 hours more or less. So when put on our team they bring out their ARs, LAVs and playing the point and trying to win, nothing new about that. The next game, when facing us, they never even leave the redline. And here we're talking about 6 dudes from the same corp a corp thats been here since beta ffs, all bringing out their snipers to sort of spite us I believe. And yes I do indeed see the joy in that. Off course this leads to a very boring game for us and I would believe the other 10 dudes having their prime group of that battle not taking part. And this repeated itself more or less several times with various groups of players. I remember back in the early days of MAG, my first competitive shooter. I had a scrub clan, with scrubby players, myself included. We were normally very happy if we could do a game and not go negative KDR wise. So back then also, our little group of rag tag scrubs and houswives were set up against Q-synced teams from the best corps in the game. And what did we do? We faught them with nails and teeth. We played as tight as we could, pure combat updates/tactics on coms. In short: we did all that we could and tried to make our organization count towards beating players with way better gungame. Trying to get into 2 vs 1 scenarios. Trying to outflank and hit one spot with our 8 man squad etc. Naturally we mostly failed horribly. We got stomped over and over. Slowly but steadily our performance got better, we got respected and eventually became a factor in MAG. This was mostly the trend in MAG, most battles were filled with fierce competition, or at least thats what my rosie memories tell me.... This is far from the average situation in Dust. This goes for both the less skilled and the pro tryhards. I've been in group with and seen so many players with 5+ KDR leave battles or spawn back into the warbarge as soon as the fighting gets though. The scrubs hide out for different reasons than the tryhards, they're mstly interrested in saving that KDR, they can put up a fight but just can't be bothered. Both of these mentalitie doesn't go well with me. Fighting agaist better players, do you really think that its benefitial for your learning curve to: Stay at the redline sniping? Stay at some high point, a house or rail or whatever, taking the occational pot shot? You know popping your head up and shoot somone in the back while he's engaged in ground fighting... Same goes for the perifferee hero, sirkling the outskirts with a RR or Scr. Same goes for the logibro suddenly calling in a tank and drives aimlessly around. And so on. Why don't you people try to better yourself? Why don't you form up, wait for each other and try to blitz the point from various angles? Are you really content with having an evasive doctrine vs any good team you play? Really? IMO the Dust community is the worst I have seen in terms of player skill and cheap "lets make the game boring" tactics. Way too few try to fight the odds and improve their gungame and tactics, its just safer and better to get defensive, even if the current battlfield dictates that you'll attack or lose the game. Conclusion: Isk payout and perhaps even skillpoints should be affected by winning or losing a battle. This difference should be large enough to matter. At least a 3 to 1 difference. Hopefully this will lead to a mental shift of the general community giving us back more intense and fun battles, and that is the most important improvement of Dust IMO. HEY!! NO LOGIC ON THE FORUMS!!!! I hate to admit it but you are right, another reason ccp needs to get off their asses and fix AFK farming, and do SOMETHING about the redline. Yes the mentality of the player base needs to change, but CCP could help to give that direction with better game mechanics. actually if you want to fix the abusive vets give bonus SP that doesn't count toward cap that is awarded only on victory, and take all WP/SP/ISK rewards from players in their own red line.
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 260	Posted - 2014.02.02 10:40:00 - [130] - Quote Matticus Monk wrote: KingBabar wrote: Why don't you people try to better yourself? Why don't you form up, wait for each other and try to blitz the point from various angles? Are you really content with having an evasive doctrine vs any good team you play? Really? I think a lot of guys are too worried about loosing ISK and are unwilling to switch to cheaper fits to do battle and continue to improve their gun game. I'm not sure why as plenty of people out there run cheap fits often and do extremely well.... and then there is saving the KDR that you mentioned. And for whatever reason people don't squad as much as they should and lets face it, comm protocol is awful on most squads, even by veteran players.... most of it is just babbling/bitching when I run with random squads. And obviously finding good squad mates can be hard if you are in a small corp.... Redline is boring for both sides. Running smaller squads and crap gear as the stompers will likely help more than anything you do to try to convince the redberries to push out from the redline in cheaper fits. actually you wanna really hurt some of the chicken *****, make a 0/0/0 hurt their KDR, as well as time spent in the red line and leaving matches before their end and after being able to see the enemy team roster, would it be an accurate KDR? no. would it represent the quality of the player? yea yea it would.

ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 281	Posted - 2014.02.02 13:09:00 - [131] - Quote Oh by the way, you guys still want a challenge? Try playing with KB/M for a while. That will give you the challenge you desire. Laugh manically as you struggle to train the cross-hairs on your enemy, as your bullets disperse when you fire from the hip. Watch as your enemy uses Aim Assist and his bullets magnetise to your face, hit you around corners and through walls. Yes, play with KB/M and receive your challenge. -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= By the way King, I can see why you would think certain things are broken. The problem is people can make the same kind of isk going totally AFK in a match as they would putting in an average performance and lose suits. That needs to be fixed. KB/M controls need to be fixed before us guys can be competitive in close range fire fights. Also if there was a way to pick between Militia / standard battles and Proto / advanced battles - well you might just GET COMPETITION. Instead of being put up against casuals and chillers. You could get the chance to fight other small gangs and other 6 man proto squads. By the way I was on my main the other day, we were playing a domination. I think some of your rainbow guys were on the other side in proto / advanced. We were using standard and advanced - and yes your guys did win the battles but if they recall that particular fight, it WAS a good battle. It was very close too. So occasionally teams are somewhat matched. I also feel your frustration man but seriously - if you come up against noobs / casuals / NON tryhards then just ditch the proto and use some cheaper stuff.
Piraten Hovnoret Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 268	Posted - 2014.02.02 13:14:00 - [132] - Quote J0hlss0n wrote: Regarding pure protstomping, how hard is it to look at the game from start, and if you are facing nothing but random people, use advanced gear at the most? Is that really to much to ask of people? I understand this mentality about "I've earned this, I got the isk and sp, Im running proto no matter what you say", but isnt it more fun if the game is a bit more leveled? Instead of a redline you get a game switching back and forth and people dont hide behind the redline or just bring out a sniper rifle? A close battle, rewarding you all with more points, kills or whatever you now are after, and if you (not pointing anyone special out, speaking to whoever this concerns) now truly are sucha beast player it doesnt matter what gear you're in, then I'm sure next time I go up against you I will be seeing you in Standard or Advanced gear at the most... If you find people are being pushed back so hard or not pushing at all, switch to advanced or less, at least in my case that makes the game more fun, I havent used proto gear (except for the assault forge, but thats because of the tank vs av situation right now) in pubs in forever now, I find it natural actually to use advanced at most in pubs and use proto in PC and FW, where the games are supposed to matter. But its pretty clear that this game NEEDS limits on the game modes, call it null sec or high sec, whatever, something needs to change so the new players, not being able to or can afford running proto, can play in to build up not only sp and isk but skills as well. A Ambush with no veichles and a limit up to advanced gear might help people out, but thats not all, this game and its gamemodes/matchmaking needs alot of work.... Because its very clear that the mentality of people will not change... Amen broder. Fy fan vad du +ñr bra min v+ñn. War never changes
Gemini Cuspid Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2014.02.03 03:28:00 - [133] - Quote Straight and simple -> IMPOSSIBLE TO DO PERIOD. I'll also back this up with a simple fact: there is no technical "cap" on abilities. You could have been playing since Beta and have had all the boosters active until then and you still haven't had capped all skills. I bring this up because in a FPS game it does add to a bit of sense: players who have played longer, have had an active character longer or are skilled and fill in the prior two slots will always have a significant advantage in the game. I made my 3rd clone since it's been 13 months since I've played and I was getting smoked by players nearing 1k in armor and shields with logi armor. This is not an issue of game balance but rather skill balance and learning curve: if you're constantly getting killed by even a single player that often and they are playing in a corp so there are 4-6 of them then it creates an instant imbalance. You can also cry the usual defense of "well you need to play more" but that also means little since by the time someone has upgraded a bit the veteran has upgraded a lot more; they will still get more kills, WP's and basically everything versus a newcomer even if that person has some experience. Face it my militia rifle even if i'm playing with a group that knows what they are doing isn't going to put a dent in a group who also knows what they are doing but is armored to the teeth. For players (I know you're out there) who played Resistance 2 & MAG, you had a enforced limit meaning you either capped out and learned quite a bit and actually managed to increase your skill level versus the veteran with more skill points advancing further than a newcomer. Players don't have an opportunity to learn and become experienced once they're getting stomped constantly; likewise game dynamics in this area aren't any friendlier. That same player with 1k armor and shield could also have a full skills in scanning still giving them a good jump on me. That's kind of the problem we're facing in the game and what makes this a hard game to really maintain except for the hardcores. CCP is at the stage where enforced limits aren't possible and, likewise, it can't really do anything much either to attract new players nor make a more balanced curve where new and less experienced players don't get stomped and accrue skill points at a slower rate than skilled. It's a catch-22 and why I had a lot of hope for this game I just don't feel optimistic about it. People will get stomped and imbalance is less weapons based than it's more time-invested and played based. Not saying you shouldn't be rewarded for playing longer but for other FPS's the reward was really learning and gaining experience and skills to win because, at some stage, you had everything you're enemy had access to and it was simply a case of luck, skill or terrain advantage that made one live or die. You can't really have that as the overarching situation in Dust514 and that's why players get stomped and why matches feel easy or insanely impossible.
VALCORE72 NECROM0NGERS The CORVOS 26	Posted - 2014.02.03 03:53:00 - [134] - Quote i hear soo much bull sht about redline lol if u want to stop redline PULL BACK AND LEAVE 5 or 6 uplinks . its boring in the redline but upper tier corps have to beat there chest and do a **** measure . hate being redlined or doing it its boring for all . as a heavy 'my play style is never back off no matter what . iv had some realllly kick ass fire fights . soo guys stop destroying uplinks and back off the redline back to the letter .YOU will get more kills by letn us come to you .
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1497	Posted - 2014.02.03 03:56:00 - [135] - Quote VALCORE72 wrote: i hear soo much bull sht about redline lol if u want to stop redline PULL BACK AND LEAVE 5 or 6 uplinks . its boring in the redline but upper tier corps have to beat there chest and do a **** measure . hate being redlined or doing it its boring for all . as a heavy 'my play style is never back off no matter what . iv had some realllly kick ass fire fights . soo guys stop destroying uplinks and back off the redline back to the letter .YOU will get more kills by letn us come to you . Where is the incentive to defend? I mean, besides getting a "gud fite" out of the reddots and not a boring redline campfire? There isn't one. I am betting that if there was one, we wouldn't see the mobile blob roaming from objective to objective anymore and people would actually give defending a chance. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
LEHON Xeon Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 172	Posted - 2014.02.03 04:13:00 - [136] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Yeah...no. If it's a fair fight ill lose all the suits I need to to win, no question. When I'm carrying a team of randoms (and I ain't that good), I used to try to win, but losing 16 suits in a wholly futile effort is not fun for me, I don't have your billions of ill-gotten PC ISK, I can't afford to run proto (at all, much less 24/7), so that's not gonna happen. I could care less about my KDR but I'm not going broke in order to help the elite stomping corps have more fun at my expense. How about you spread the wealth around and give the little guys a chance to enter PC or not get farmed in pubs all day long, before you get on your damn high horse and lecture the rest of us on our poor attitude. If winning gains 3x as much as losing the rich will keep getting richer and the economy will get more and more broken and player retention will be even worse than it is now. You take away rewards for a loss and you destroy this game. Period. I began adopting this policy as well. I'm pretty much always someone who tries to keep going in a match, even if we're way behind and pushed to the redline. However, a massive suit loss, which to me is 10+ in a single match (even though I usually kill double that in reds) is not helpful for me at all, particularly when I run full logistic suits. Yes I'm a real logi, I actually use a lot of equipment and constantly running that can get very expensive. If I'm up against stompers and have continuously died to them with the old half a second death, I simply relocate to the redline and pull out a gunlogi and sit on a cliff. They all think it's fine to destroy huge amounts of suits for people on my side so I'm going to start cutting yours down from afar. That's the only time I redline rail. It's a trap! In this patch we can't repel firepower of that magnitude! - Admiral Ackbar would say in ambush w Nyain San
VALCORE72 NECROM0NGERS The CORVOS 26	Posted - 2014.02.03 04:19:00 - [137] - Quote lol treat it like s.ex . you have to pull back to enjoy the push lol
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1752	Posted - 2014.02.03 06:23:00 - [138] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: Oh by the way, you guys still want a challenge? Try playing with KB/M for a while. That will give you the challenge you desire. Laugh manically as you struggle to train the cross-hairs on your enemy, as your bullets disperse when you fire from the hip. Watch as your enemy uses Aim Assist and his bullets magnetise to your face, hit you around corners and through walls. Yes, play with KB/M and receive your challenge. -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= By the way King, I can see why you would think certain things are broken. The problem is people can make the same kind of isk going totally AFK in a match as they would putting in an average performance and lose suits. That needs to be fixed. KB/M controls need to be fixed before us guys can be competitive in close range fire fights. Also if there was a way to pick between Militia / standard battles and Proto / advanced battles - well you might just GET COMPETITION. Instead of being put up against casuals and chillers. You could get the chance to fight other small gangs and other 6 man proto squads. By the way I was on my main the other day, we were playing a domination. I think some of your rainbow guys were on the other side in proto / advanced. We were using standard and advanced - and yes your guys did win the battles but if they recall that particular fight, it WAS a good battle. It was very close too. So occasionally teams are somewhat matched. I also feel your frustration man but seriously - if you come up against noobs / casuals / NON tryhards then just ditch the proto and use some cheaper stuff. Well, I'm not going out to buy a KB/M for this. LOL, I haven+ª't used KB/M since the original Wolfenstsin 3D and Doom. I am all for a mouse buff, better responsiveness and such But this has to come With a nerf to KB straifing speed. Overall the DS3 might be way better than KB/M, but up Close it can be a nightmare. I die way too ofthen up Close by somoene thats obviously (ab)using KB/M. The KB straife way faster than the controller does, it changes direction almost instantly, there doesn't seem to be any Acceleration delay at all. These dudes typically stand on the exact same spot, merely pushing left and right Arrow and they strafe so fast back and forth that its almost impossible to land a shot. They don't circkle strafe like I do, you know, I go right and swing my aim left and vice versa. This is something that takes time to get good at, keeping Your aim on the target while moving sideways. Wish I could do it as fast as you can With a KB. Many KB/M users I've noticed doesn't seem to do this, they simply spray straight foreward while going side to side. They use a very long time in actually killi me, but what does that matter when I have to go through 2 Clips to merely dent their Shields? KB/M users have had an enormeous advantage over Controllers for a very long time in this game. Much better accuracy and much faster strafing made KB/M essentially OP for about a year through beta/early after launch. I'm all for making the KB/M combo viable again, but its a serious kick in the gonads for all console players the way it used to be, a KB/M combo so blatantly outperforming the Controller which is the default to the PS3 system? Not good when a console player have to dust of his KB/M to stay competitive. I Wonder if the KB/M crowd actually realized what a big advantage they had back then? http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 2604	Posted - 2014.02.03 06:36:00 - [139] - Quote KingBabar wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: Oh by the way, you guys still want a challenge? Try playing with KB/M for a while. That will give you the challenge you desire. Laugh manically as you struggle to train the cross-hairs on your enemy, as your bullets disperse when you fire from the hip. Watch as your enemy uses Aim Assist and his bullets magnetise to your face, hit you around corners and through walls. Yes, play with KB/M and receive your challenge. -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= By the way King, I can see why you would think certain things are broken. The problem is people can make the same kind of isk going totally AFK in a match as they would putting in an average performance and lose suits. That needs to be fixed. KB/M controls need to be fixed before us guys can be competitive in close range fire fights. Also if there was a way to pick between Militia / standard battles and Proto / advanced battles - well you might just GET COMPETITION. Instead of being put up against casuals and chillers. You could get the chance to fight other small gangs and other 6 man proto squads. By the way I was on my main the other day, we were playing a domination. I think some of your rainbow guys were on the other side in proto / advanced. We were using standard and advanced - and yes your guys did win the battles but if they recall that particular fight, it WAS a good battle. It was very close too. So occasionally teams are somewhat matched. I also feel your frustration man but seriously - if you come up against noobs / casuals / NON tryhards then just ditch the proto and use some cheaper stuff. Well, I'm not going out to buy a KB/M for this. LOL, I haven+ª't used KB/M since the original Wolfenstsin 3D and Doom. I am all for a mouse buff, better responsiveness and such But this has to come With a nerf to KB straifing speed. Overall the DS3 might be way better than KB/M, but up Close it can be a nightmare. I die way too ofthen up Close by somoene thats obviously (ab)using KB/M. The KB straife way faster than the controller does, it changes direction almost instantly, there doesn't seem to be any Acceleration delay at all. These dudes typically stand on the exact same spot, merely pushing left and right Arrow and they strafe so fast back and forth that its almost impossible to land a shot. They don't circkle strafe like I do, you know, I go right and swing my aim left and vice versa. This is something that takes time to get good at, keeping Your aim on the target while moving sideways. Wish I could do it as fast as you can With a KB. Many KB/M users I've noticed doesn't seem to do this, they simply spray straight foreward while going side to side. They use a very long time in actually killi me, but what does that matter when I have to go through 2 Clips to merely dent their Shields? KB/M users have had an enormeous advantage over Controllers for a very long time in this game. Much better accuracy and much faster strafing made KB/M essentially OP for about a year through beta/early after launch. I'm all for making the KB/M combo viable again, but its a serious kick in the gonads for all console players the way it used to be, a KB/M combo so blatantly outperforming the Controller which is the default to the PS3 system? Not good when a console player have to dust of his KB/M to stay competitive. I Wonder if the KB/M crowd actually realized what a big advantage they had back then? There is a reason why KB/M was banned from BF3 FraggedNation on PS3. KB/M when implemented "Correctly" gives so much more control, speed, and precision over a DS3 it's not even funny. I like the fact in Dust right now that KB/M only gives you super strafing. It could be a lot worse. Also, Circle strafing is good, but figure 8 strafing is best Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Long Evity 1499	Posted - 2014.02.03 06:58:00 - [140] - Quote Couldn't one possible solution be give more ISK per kill? Make it more rewarding to jump out and kill then sit in war barge - you could even reduce ISK earned from win/loss, make it more focused on kills and WP gain. That way - even if you AFK on a winning side you don't get rewarded much. I was also thinking that it might make getting payments better distributed that killing someone with 3 blue dots nearby - rewards ISK to all 4 of you. I am not who you think I am, only but just a dream.

KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1756	Posted - 2014.02.03 07:23:00 - [141] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: KingBabar wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: Oh by the way, you guys still want a challenge? Try playing with KB/M for a while. That will give you the challenge you desire. Laugh manically as you struggle to train the cross-hairs on your enemy, as your bullets disperse when you fire from the hip. Watch as your enemy uses Aim Assist and his bullets magnetise to your face, hit you around corners and through walls. Yes, play with KB/M and receive your challenge. -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= -= By the way King, I can see why you would think certain things are broken. The problem is people can make the same kind of isk going totally AFK in a match as they would putting in an average performance and lose suits. That needs to be fixed. KB/M controls need to be fixed before us guys can be competitive in close range fire fights. Also if there was a way to pick between Militia / standard battles and Proto / advanced battles - well you might just GET COMPETITION. Instead of being put up against casuals and chillers. You could get the chance to fight other small gangs and other 6 man proto squads. By the way I was on my main the other day, we were playing a domination. I think some of your rainbow guys were on the other side in proto / advanced. We were using standard and advanced - and yes your guys did win the battles but if they recall that particular fight, it WAS a good battle. It was very close too. So occasionally teams are somewhat matched. I also feel your frustration man but seriously - if you come up against noobs / casuals / NON tryhards then just ditch the proto and use some cheaper stuff. Well, I'm not going out to buy a KB/M for this. LOL, I haven+ª't used KB/M since the original Wolfenstsin 3D and Doom. I am all for a mouse buff, better responsiveness and such But this has to come With a nerf to KB straifing speed. Overall the DS3 might be way better than KB/M, but up Close it can be a nightmare. I die way too ofthen up Close by somoene thats obviously (ab)using KB/M. The KB straife way faster than the controller does, it changes direction almost instantly, there doesn't seem to be any Acceleration delay at all. These dudes typically stand on the exact same spot, merely pushing left and right Arrow and they strafe so fast back and forth that its almost impossible to land a shot. They don't circkle strafe like I do, you know, I go right and swing my aim left and vice versa. This is something that takes time to get good at, keeping Your aim on the target while moving sideways. Wish I could do it as fast as you can With a KB. Many KB/M users I've noticed doesn't seem to do this, they simply spray straight foreward while going side to side. They use a very long time in actually killi me, but what does that matter when I have to go through 2 Clips to merely dent their Shields? KB/M users have had an enormeous advantage over Controllers for a very long time in this game. Much better accuracy and much faster strafing made KB/M essentially OP for about a year through beta/early after launch. I'm all for making the KB/M combo viable again, but its a serious kick in the gonads for all console players the way it used to be, a KB/M combo so blatantly outperforming the Controller which is the default to the PS3 system? Not good when a console player have to dust of his KB/M to stay competitive. I Wonder if the KB/M crowd actually realized what a big advantage they had back then? There is a reason why KB/M was banned from BF3 FraggedNation on PS3. KB/M when implemented "Correctly" gives so much more control, speed, and precision over a DS3 it's not even funny. I like the fact in Dust right now that KB/M only gives you super strafing. It could be a lot worse. Also, Circle strafing is good, but figure 8 strafing is best Yeah I never got the hang of that figure 8 thing I've heard about. When I try it it just gets messy. Someone should teach me! http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
Morathi III Policeman of the Federation 121	Posted - 2014.02.03 07:56:00 - [142] - Quote KingBabar wrote: As I've said before, I'm so very tired of the constant stomping and can't really see any better way of upping the action than go in in small groups, mostly 2-4 dudes per squad. This way we can't be all over the battlefield, there will always be an unguarded point etc. This means that we most of the time have players on the field to fight and we don't have to stand on the redline. It also means we'll get some truly awsome fights when we're up against stacked teams. You know, FUN! So yeserday this is what we do. We're 3 players and we mostly played dom. And a trend was starting to reveal itself. Many corps and groups of players were "stuck in our queue", meaning that they were in our games for 2 hours more or less. So when put on our team they bring out their ARs, LAVs and playing the point and trying to win, nothing new about that. The next game, when facing us, they never even leave the redline. And here we're talking about 6 dudes from the same corp a corp thats been here since beta ffs, all bringing out their snipers to sort of spite us I believe. And yes I do indeed see the joy in that. Off course this leads to a very boring game for us and I would believe the other 10 dudes having their prime group of that battle not taking part. And this repeated itself more or less several times with various groups of players. I remember back in the early days of MAG, my first competitive shooter. I had a scrub clan, with scrubby players, myself included. We were normally very happy if we could do a game and not go negative KDR wise. So back then also, our little group of rag tag scrubs and houswives were set up against Q-synced teams from the best corps in the game. And what did we do? We faught them with nails and teeth. We played as tight as we could, pure combat updates/tactics on coms. In short: we did all that we could and tried to make our organization count towards beating players with way better gungame. Trying to get into 2 vs 1 scenarios. Trying to outflank and hit one spot with our 8 man squad etc. Naturally we mostly failed horribly. We got stomped over and over. Slowly but steadily our performance got better, we got respected and eventually became a factor in MAG. This was mostly the trend in MAG, most battles were filled with fierce competition, or at least thats what my rosie memories tell me.... This is far from the average situation in Dust. This goes for both the less skilled and the pro tryhards. I've been in group with and seen so many players with 5+ KDR leave battles or spawn back into the warbarge as soon as the fighting gets though. The scrubs hide out for different reasons than the tryhards, they're mstly interrested in saving that KDR, they can put up a fight but just can't be bothered. Both of these mentalitie doesn't go well with me. Fighting agaist better players, do you really think that its benefitial for your learning curve to: Stay at the redline sniping? Stay at some high point, a house or rail or whatever, taking the occational pot shot? You know popping your head up and shoot somone in the back while he's engaged in ground fighting... Same goes for the perifferee hero, sirkling the outskirts with a RR or Scr. Same goes for the logibro suddenly calling in a tank and drives aimlessly around. And so on. Why don't you people try to better yourself? Why don't you form up, wait for each other and try to blitz the point from various angles? Are you really content with having an evasive doctrine vs any good team you play? Really? IMO the Dust community is the worst I have seen in terms of player skill and cheap "lets make the game boring" tactics. Way too few try to fight the odds and improve their gungame and tactics, its just safer and better to get defensive, even if the current battlfield dictates that you'll attack or lose the game. Conclusion: Isk payout and perhaps even skillpoints should be affected by winning or losing a battle. This difference should be large enough to matter. At least a 3 to 1 difference. Hopefully this will lead to a mental shift of the general community giving us back more intense and fun battles, and that is the most important improvement of Dust IMO. HAHA HAHAHA HAHAHAHA, we arent in mag here . Why new player will attack your squad of protostomper constantly you get the advantage on them by passive SP skill and by your better gear so they got instakill, for the majority of ppl gaming is for fun, i see no fun in coming 1\20 by trying to fight against half god on the field because of their gear and play videogame like crazy, so they go redline at sniping, its logik, we need a PVE right now, amd quickly
Canari Elphus Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1092	Posted - 2014.02.03 08:06:00 - [143] - Quote Morathi III wrote: KingBabar wrote: As I've said before, I'm so very tired of the constant stomping and can't really see any better way of upping the action than go in in small groups, mostly 2-4 dudes per squad. This way we can't be all over the battlefield, there will always be an unguarded point etc. This means that we most of the time have players on the field to fight and we don't have to stand on the redline. It also means we'll get some truly awsome fights when we're up against stacked teams. You know, FUN! So yeserday this is what we do. We're 3 players and we mostly played dom. And a trend was starting to reveal itself. Many corps and groups of players were "stuck in our queue", meaning that they were in our games for 2 hours more or less. So when put on our team they bring out their ARs, LAVs and playing the point and trying to win, nothing new about that. The next game, when facing us, they never even leave the redline. And here we're talking about 6 dudes from the same corp a corp thats been here since beta ffs, all bringing out their snipers to sort of spite us I believe. And yes I do indeed see the joy in that. Off course this leads to a very boring game for us and I would believe the other 10 dudes having their prime group of that battle not taking part. And this repeated itself more or less several times with various groups of players. I remember back in the early days of MAG, my first competitive shooter. I had a scrub clan, with scrubby players, myself included. We were normally very happy if we could do a game and not go negative KDR wise. So back then also, our little group of rag tag scrubs and houswives were set up against Q-synced teams from the best corps in the game. And what did we do? We faught them with nails and teeth. We played as tight as we could, pure combat updates/tactics on coms. In short: we did all that we could and tried to make our organization count towards beating players with way better gungame. Trying to get into 2 vs 1 scenarios. Trying to outflank and hit one spot with our 8 man squad etc. Naturally we mostly failed horribly. We got stomped over and over. Slowly but steadily our performance got better, we got respected and eventually became a factor in MAG. This was mostly the trend in MAG, most battles were filled with fierce competition, or at least thats what my rosie memories tell me.... This is far from the average situation in Dust. This goes for both the less skilled and the pro tryhards. I've been in group with and seen so many players with 5+ KDR leave battles or spawn back into the warbarge as soon as the fighting gets though. The scrubs hide out for different reasons than the tryhards, they're mstly interrested in saving that KDR, they can put up a fight but just can't be bothered. Both of these mentalitie doesn't go well with me. Fighting agaist better players, do you really think that its benefitial for your learning curve to: Stay at the redline sniping? Stay at some high point, a house or rail or whatever, taking the occational pot shot? You know popping your head up and shoot somone in the back while he's engaged in ground fighting... Same goes for the perifferee hero, sirkling the outskirts with a RR or Scr. Same goes for the logibro suddenly calling in a tank and drives aimlessly around. And so on. Why don't you people try to better yourself? Why don't you form up, wait for each other and try to blitz the point from various angles? Are you really content with having an evasive doctrine vs any good team you play? Really? IMO the Dust community is the worst I have seen in terms of player skill and cheap "lets make the game boring" tactics. Way too few try to fight the odds and improve their gungame and tactics, its just safer and better to get defensive, even if the current battlfield dictates that you'll attack or lose the game. Conclusion: Isk payout and perhaps even skillpoints should be affected by winning or losing a battle. This difference should be large enough to matter. At least a 3 to 1 difference. Hopefully this will lead to a mental shift of the general community giving us back more intense and fun battles, and that is the most important improvement of Dust IMO. HAHA HAHAHA HAHAHAHA, we arent in mag here . Why new player will attack your squad of protostomper constantly you get the advantage on them by passive SP skill and by your better gear so they got instakill, for the majority of ppl gaming is for fun, i see no fun in coming 1\20 by trying to fight against half god on the field because of their gear and play videogame like crazy, so they go redline at sniping, its logik, we need a PVE right now, amd quickly PVE is the start of it but there also needs to be something for veteran players to do beyond simple pub games. There needs to be more and more involvement in actually building something in the game that leads to more immersion for vets so that pub matches become nothing more than a way to pass the time now and again. There needs to be more and more escalation of risk vs. reward for higher SP/ISK characters just like there is in EVE. BTW - Stay safe out there man and look forward to playing with you when you get back home. Proud Sponsor of the United Lamp Post Defense Fund. "Protecting Our Skies For A Better Tomorrow" ¯¯¯¦¬¯`GÇó.__Gÿ+
Morathi III Policeman of the Federation 121	Posted - 2014.02.03 08:34:00 - [144] - Quote HAHA HAHAHA HAHAHAHA, we arent in mag here . Why new player will attack your squad of protostomper constantly you get the advantage on them by passive SP skill and by your better gear so they got instakill, for the majority of ppl gaming is for fun, i see no fun in coming 1\20 by trying to fight against half god on the field because of their gear and play videogame like crazy, so they go redline at sniping, its logik, we need a PVE right now, amd quickly[/quote] PVE is the start of it but there also needs to be something for veteran players to do beyond simple pub games. There needs to be more and more involvement in actually building something in the game that leads to more immersion for vets so that pub matches become nothing more than a way to pass the time now and again. There needs to be more and more escalation of risk vs. reward for higher SP/ISK characters just like there is in EVE. BTW - Stay safe out there man and look forward to playing with you when you get back home.[/quote] hi sir , its true but if something need to be done in first, i really think that would be pve, lots of ppl have a rough first impression of the game right now and them they will left for good the game and dont spent their money into it, vets i agree with you , but old player like us dont spent money in the game anymore and we can take a break of the game and come back later with new update because we like the game and is idea so CCP have choice to bring new addict ppl into the game, with of course their money or going for the vets that already like the game without spending money anymore. if i was in the leader of ccp ill go for the first choice. increasing revenue and new player and older like us can even try pve by the way and take a break of the game if we get bored


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