As I've said before, I'm so very tired of the constant stomping and can't really see any better way of upping the action than go in in small groups, mostly 2-4 dudes per squad. This way we can't be all over the battlefield, there will always be an unguarded point etc. This means that we most of the time have players on the field to fight and we don't have to stand on the redline. It also means we'll get some truly awsome fights when we're up against stacked teams. You know, FUN!

So yeserday this is what we do. We're 3 players and we mostly played dom. And a trend was starting to reveal itself. Many corps and groups of players were "stuck in our queue", meaning that they were in our games for 2 hours more or less. So when put on our team they bring out their ARs, LAVs and playing the point and trying to win, nothing new about that.

The next game, when facing us, they never even leave the redline. And here we're talking about 6 dudes from the same corp a corp thats been here since beta ffs, all bringing out their snipers to sort of spite us I believe. And yes I do indeed see the joy in that. Off course this leads to a very boring game for us and I would believe the other 10 dudes having their prime group of that battle not taking part. And this repeated itself more or less several times with various groups of players.

I remember back in the early days of MAG, my first competitive shooter. I had a scrub clan, with scrubby players, myself included. We were normally very happy if we could do a game and not go negative KDR wise. So back then also, our little group of rag tag scrubs and houswives were set up against Q-synced teams from the best corps in the game. And what did we do?

We faught them with nails and teeth. We played as tight as we could, pure combat updates/tactics on coms. In short: we did all that we could and tried to make our organization count towards beating players with way better gungame. Trying to get into 2 vs 1 scenarios. Trying to outflank and hit one spot with our 8 man squad etc. Naturally we mostly failed horribly. We got stomped over and over. Slowly but steadily our performance got better, we got respected and eventually became a factor in MAG. This was mostly the trend in MAG, most battles were filled with fierce competition, or at least thats what my rosie memories tell me....

This is far from the average situation in Dust. This goes for both the less skilled and the pro tryhards. I've been in group with and seen so many players with 5+ KDR leave battles or spawn back into the warbarge as soon as the fighting gets though. The scrubs hide out for different reasons than the tryhards, they're mstly interrested in saving that KDR, they can put up a fight but just can't be bothered. Both of these mentalitie doesn't go well with me.

Fighting agaist better players, do you really think that its benefitial for your learning curve to:
Stay at the redline sniping?
Stay at some high point, a house or rail or whatever, taking the occational pot shot? You know popping your head up and shoot somone in the back while he's engaged in ground fighting...
Same goes for the perifferee hero, sirkling the outskirts with a RR or Scr.
Same goes for the logibro suddenly calling in a tank and drives aimlessly around. And so on.

Why don't you people try to better yourself?
Why don't you form up, wait for each other and try to blitz the point from various angles?
Are you really content with having an evasive doctrine vs any good team you play? Really?

IMO the Dust community is the worst I have seen in terms of player skill and cheap "lets make the game boring" tactics. Way too few try to fight the odds and improve their gungame and tactics, its just safer and better to get defensive, even if the current battlfield dictates that you'll attack or lose the game.

Conclusion:

Isk payout and perhaps even skillpoints should be affected by winning or losing a battle. This difference should be large enough to matter. At least a 3 to 1 difference. Hopefully this will lead to a mental shift of the general community giving us back more intense and fun battles, and that is the most important improvement of Dust IMO.

Here we are actually doing an effort to reduse the stomp and by extension making it a more inclusive ga,e and you bring this up.
Do you expect us to merely give our clones away?

1. this is what happens with protostomps. You protostomp, ergo you do this. not really a faulty assumption on my part as it is part and parcel of any "good"(they're not actually good in a lot of cases) protostomper's repertoire.

2. good for you, now do this when you consider 1mil+ to be good cash on hand and assault rifle 3 is your highest skill. instead of with 200 million to lose and pc built SP.

3. Protostompers use only the most OP combinations of suits and gear. You protostomp, ergo you use the current "best" (proto gal-logi or heavy. with the RR as your gun) again not a faulty assumption as all the "good" protostomper's do it as the baseline.

4. you think any of these randoms has a mic? or even has voice chat on(it's off by default, remember?) or in the team channel? I couldn't coordinate them if I tried. I can only hope to inspire one of them to follow me into the meat grinder and maybe kill one of those proto suits that these guys can afford to lose hundreds of thousands of fits for.

Sorry that I didn't account for your sub-optimal stomping.

As I've said before, I'm so very tired of the constant stomping and can't really see any better way of upping the action than go in in small groups, mostly 2-4 dudes per squad. This way we can't be all over the battlefield, there will always be an unguarded point etc. This means that we most of the time have players on the field to fight and we don't have to stand on the redline. It also means we'll get some truly awsome fights when we're up against stacked teams. You know, FUN!

So yeserday this is what we do. We're 3 players and we mostly played dom. And a trend was starting to reveal itself. Many corps and groups of players were "stuck in our queue", meaning that they were in our games for 2 hours more or less. So when put on our team they bring out their ARs, LAVs and playing the point and trying to win, nothing new about that.

The next game, when facing us, they never even leave the redline. And here we're talking about 6 dudes from the same corp a corp thats been here since beta ffs, all bringing out their snipers to sort of spite us I believe. And yes I do indeed see the joy in that. Off course this leads to a very boring game for us and I would believe the other 10 dudes having their prime group of that battle not taking part. And this repeated itself more or less several times with various groups of players.

I remember back in the early days of MAG, my first competitive shooter. I had a scrub clan, with scrubby players, myself included. We were normally very happy if we could do a game and not go negative KDR wise. So back then also, our little group of rag tag scrubs and houswives were set up against Q-synced teams from the best corps in the game. And what did we do?

We faught them with nails and teeth. We played as tight as we could, pure combat updates/tactics on coms. In short: we did all that we could and tried to make our organization count towards beating players with way better gungame. Trying to get into 2 vs 1 scenarios. Trying to outflank and hit one spot with our 8 man squad etc. Naturally we mostly failed horribly. We got stomped over and over. Slowly but steadily our performance got better, we got respected and eventually became a factor in MAG. This was mostly the trend in MAG, most battles were filled with fierce competition, or at least thats what my rosie memories tell me....

This is far from the average situation in Dust. This goes for both the less skilled and the pro tryhards. I've been in group with and seen so many players with 5+ KDR leave battles or spawn back into the warbarge as soon as the fighting gets though. The scrubs hide out for different reasons than the tryhards, they're mstly interrested in saving that KDR, they can put up a fight but just can't be bothered. Both of these mentalitie doesn't go well with me.

Fighting agaist better players, do you really think that its benefitial for your learning curve to:
Stay at the redline sniping?
Stay at some high point, a house or rail or whatever, taking the occational pot shot? You know popping your head up and shoot somone in the back while he's engaged in ground fighting...
Same goes for the perifferee hero, sirkling the outskirts with a RR or Scr.
Same goes for the logibro suddenly calling in a tank and drives aimlessly around. And so on.

Why don't you people try to better yourself?
Why don't you form up, wait for each other and try to blitz the point from various angles?
Are you really content with having an evasive doctrine vs any good team you play? Really?

IMO the Dust community is the worst I have seen in terms of player skill and cheap "lets make the game boring" tactics. Way too few try to fight the odds and improve their gungame and tactics, its just safer and better to get defensive, even if the current battlfield dictates that you'll attack or lose the game.

Conclusion:

Isk payout and perhaps even skillpoints should be affected by winning or losing a battle. This difference should be large enough to matter. At least a 3 to 1 difference. Hopefully this will lead to a mental shift of the general community giving us back more intense and fun battles, and that is the most important improvement of Dust IMO.

I think a lot of guys are too worried about loosing ISK and are unwilling to switch to cheaper fits to do battle and continue to improve their gun game. I'm not sure why as plenty of people out there run cheap fits often and do extremely well.... and then there is saving the KDR that you mentioned.

And for whatever reason people don't squad as much as they should and lets face it, comm protocol is awful on most squads, even by veteran players.... most of it is just babbling/bitching when I run with random squads. And obviously finding good squad mates can be hard if you are in a small corp....

Redline is boring for both sides. Running smaller squads and crap gear as the stompers will likely help more than anything you do to try to convince the redberries to push out from the redline in cheaper fits.

Regarding pure protstomping, how hard is it to look at the game from start, and if you are facing nothing but random people, use advanced gear at the most? Is that really to much to ask of people?

I understand this mentality about "I've earned this, I got the isk and sp, Im running proto no matter what you say", but isnt it more fun if the game is a bit more leveled? Instead of a redline you get a game switching back and forth and people dont hide behind the redline or just bring out a sniper rifle? A close battle, rewarding you all with more points, kills or whatever you now are after, and if you (not pointing anyone special out, speaking to whoever this concerns) now truly are sucha beast player it doesnt matter what gear you're in, then I'm sure next time I go up against you I will be seeing you in Standard or Advanced gear at the most...

If you find people are being pushed back so hard or not pushing at all, switch to advanced or less, at least in my case that makes the game more fun, I havent used proto gear (except for the assault forge, but thats because of the tank vs av situation right now) in pubs in forever now, I find it natural actually to use advanced at most in pubs and use proto in PC and FW, where the games are supposed to matter.

But its pretty clear that this game NEEDS limits on the game modes, call it null sec or high sec, whatever, something needs to change so the new players, not being able to or can afford running proto, can play in to build up not only sp and isk but skills as well. A Ambush with no veichles and a limit up to advanced gear might help people out, but thats not all, this game and its gamemodes/matchmaking needs alot of work....

Because its very clear that the mentality of people will not change...

i hear soo much bull sht about redline lol if u want to stop redline PULL BACK AND LEAVE 5 or 6 uplinks . its boring in the redline but upper tier corps have to beat there chest and do a **** measure . hate being redlined or doing it its boring for all . as a heavy 'my play style is never back off no matter what . iv had some realllly kick ass fire fights . soo guys stop destroying uplinks and back off the redline back to the letter .YOU will get more kills by letn us come to you .

Yeah...no. If it's a fair fight ill lose all the suits I need to to win, no question. When I'm carrying a team of randoms (and I ain't that good), I used to try to win, but losing 16 suits in a wholly futile effort is not fun for me, I don't have your billions of ill-gotten PC ISK, I can't afford to run proto (at all, much less 24/7), so that's not gonna happen. I could care less about my KDR but I'm not going broke in order to help the elite stomping corps have more fun at my expense.

How about you spread the wealth around and give the little guys a chance to enter PC or not get farmed in pubs all day long, before you get on your damn high horse and lecture the rest of us on our poor attitude.

If winning gains 3x as much as losing the rich will keep getting richer and the economy will get more and more broken and player retention will be even worse than it is now.

You take away rewards for a loss and you destroy this game. Period.

Oh by the way, you guys still want a challenge?

Try playing with KB/M for a while. That will give you the challenge you desire. Laugh manically as you struggle to train the cross-hairs on your enemy, as your bullets disperse when you fire from the hip. Watch as your enemy uses Aim Assist and his bullets magnetise to your face, hit you around corners and through walls.

Yes, play with KB/M and receive your challenge.

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By the way King, I can see why you would think certain things are broken. The problem is people can make the same kind of isk going totally AFK in a match as they would putting in an average performance and lose suits. That needs to be fixed.

KB/M controls need to be fixed before us guys can be competitive in close range fire fights.

Also if there was a way to pick between Militia / standard battles and Proto / advanced battles - well you might just GET COMPETITION. Instead of being put up against casuals and chillers. You could get the chance to fight other small gangs and other 6 man proto squads.

By the way I was on my main the other day, we were playing a domination. I think some of your rainbow guys were on the other side in proto / advanced. We were using standard and advanced - and yes your guys did win the battles but if they recall that particular fight, it WAS a good battle. It was very close too.

So occasionally teams are somewhat matched. I also feel your frustration man but seriously - if you come up against noobs / casuals / NON tryhards then just ditch the proto and use some cheaper stuff.

Well, I'm not going out to buy a KB/M for this. LOL, I haven+ª't used KB/M since the original Wolfenstsin 3D and Doom.

I am all for a mouse buff, better responsiveness and such But this has to come With a nerf to KB straifing speed. Overall the DS3 might be way better than KB/M, but up Close it can be a nightmare. I die way too ofthen up Close by somoene thats obviously (ab)using KB/M. The KB straife way faster than the controller does, it changes direction almost instantly, there doesn't seem to be any Acceleration delay at all.

These dudes typically stand on the exact same spot, merely pushing left and right Arrow and they strafe so fast back and forth that its almost impossible to land a shot. They don't circkle strafe like I do, you know, I go right and swing my aim left and vice versa. This is something that takes time to get good at, keeping Your aim on the target while moving sideways. Wish I could do it as fast as you can With a KB. Many KB/M users I've noticed doesn't seem to do this, they simply spray straight foreward while going side to side. They use a very long time in actually killi me, but what does that matter when I have to go through 2 Clips to merely dent their Shields?

KB/M users have had an enormeous advantage over Controllers for a very long time in this game. Much better accuracy and much faster strafing made KB/M essentially OP for about a year through beta/early after launch. I'm all for making the KB/M combo viable again, but its a serious kick in the gonads for all console players the way it used to be, a KB/M combo so blatantly outperforming the Controller which is the default to the PS3 system? Not good when a console player have to dust of his KB/M to stay competitive.

I Wonder if the KB/M crowd actually realized what a big advantage they had back then?

There is a reason why KB/M was banned from BF3 FraggedNation on PS3.

KB/M when implemented "Correctly" gives so much more control, speed, and precision over a DS3 it's not even funny.

I like the fact in Dust right now that KB/M only gives you super strafing.

It could be a lot worse.

Also, Circle strafing is good, but figure 8 strafing is best

As I've said before, I'm so very tired of the constant stomping and can't really see any better way of upping the action than go in in small groups, mostly 2-4 dudes per squad. This way we can't be all over the battlefield, there will always be an unguarded point etc. This means that we most of the time have players on the field to fight and we don't have to stand on the redline. It also means we'll get some truly awsome fights when we're up against stacked teams. You know, FUN!

So yeserday this is what we do. We're 3 players and we mostly played dom. And a trend was starting to reveal itself. Many corps and groups of players were "stuck in our queue", meaning that they were in our games for 2 hours more or less. So when put on our team they bring out their ARs, LAVs and playing the point and trying to win, nothing new about that.

The next game, when facing us, they never even leave the redline. And here we're talking about 6 dudes from the same corp a corp thats been here since beta ffs, all bringing out their snipers to sort of spite us I believe. And yes I do indeed see the joy in that. Off course this leads to a very boring game for us and I would believe the other 10 dudes having their prime group of that battle not taking part. And this repeated itself more or less several times with various groups of players.

I remember back in the early days of MAG, my first competitive shooter. I had a scrub clan, with scrubby players, myself included. We were normally very happy if we could do a game and not go negative KDR wise. So back then also, our little group of rag tag scrubs and houswives were set up against Q-synced teams from the best corps in the game. And what did we do?

We faught them with nails and teeth. We played as tight as we could, pure combat updates/tactics on coms. In short: we did all that we could and tried to make our organization count towards beating players with way better gungame. Trying to get into 2 vs 1 scenarios. Trying to outflank and hit one spot with our 8 man squad etc. Naturally we mostly failed horribly. We got stomped over and over. Slowly but steadily our performance got better, we got respected and eventually became a factor in MAG. This was mostly the trend in MAG, most battles were filled with fierce competition, or at least thats what my rosie memories tell me....

This is far from the average situation in Dust. This goes for both the less skilled and the pro tryhards. I've been in group with and seen so many players with 5+ KDR leave battles or spawn back into the warbarge as soon as the fighting gets though. The scrubs hide out for different reasons than the tryhards, they're mstly interrested in saving that KDR, they can put up a fight but just can't be bothered. Both of these mentalitie doesn't go well with me.

Fighting agaist better players, do you really think that its benefitial for your learning curve to:
Stay at the redline sniping?
Stay at some high point, a house or rail or whatever, taking the occational pot shot? You know popping your head up and shoot somone in the back while he's engaged in ground fighting...
Same goes for the perifferee hero, sirkling the outskirts with a RR or Scr.
Same goes for the logibro suddenly calling in a tank and drives aimlessly around. And so on.

Why don't you people try to better yourself?
Why don't you form up, wait for each other and try to blitz the point from various angles?
Are you really content with having an evasive doctrine vs any good team you play? Really?

IMO the Dust community is the worst I have seen in terms of player skill and cheap "lets make the game boring" tactics. Way too few try to fight the odds and improve their gungame and tactics, its just safer and better to get defensive, even if the current battlfield dictates that you'll attack or lose the game.

Conclusion:

Isk payout and perhaps even skillpoints should be affected by winning or losing a battle. This difference should be large enough to matter. At least a 3 to 1 difference. Hopefully this will lead to a mental shift of the general community giving us back more intense and fun battles, and that is the most important improvement of Dust IMO.

HAHA HAHAHA HAHAHAHA, we arent in mag here . Why new player will attack your squad of protostomper constantly you get the advantage on them by passive SP skill and by your better gear so they got instakill, for the majority of ppl gaming is for fun, i see no fun in coming 1\20 by trying to fight against half god on the field because of their gear and play videogame like crazy, so they go redline at sniping, its logik, we need a PVE right now, amd quickly