DUST Search - A shift in player mentality is needed IMO.

KingBabar wrote:

John Demonsbane wrote:

KingBabar wrote:

John Demonsbane wrote:

Yeah...no. If it's a fair fight ill lose all the suits I need to to win, no question. When I'm carrying a team of randoms (and I ain't that good), I used to try to win, but losing 16 suits in a wholly futile effort is not fun for me, I don't have your billions of ill-gotten PC ISK, I can't afford to run proto (at all, much less 24/7), so that's not gonna happen. I could care less about my KDR but I'm not going broke in order to help the elite stomping corps have more fun at my expense.

How about you spread the wealth around and give the little guys a chance to enter PC or not get farmed in pubs all day long before you get on your damn high horse and lecture the rest of us on our poor attitude.

If winning gains 3x as much as losing the rich will keep getting richer and the economy will get more and more broken and player retention will be even worse than it is now.
You take away rewards for a loss and you destroy this game. Period.

We don't have any PC districs and haven't had any except for a week long experiement. I dont sit on tons of isk because I've passively farmed them of PC. So there is no ill-gotten PC isk. Lets keep the facts straight.

Fair enough, some of what I said admittedly is a little generalized and may not specifically apply to you, but I stand by my base argument that you are blaming the wrong people. The one group you should not implicate in one sided battles are the stompees.

Yeah well I don't agree. Its not like I never play solo and come up against stacked teams, but be assured, that game will most likely hurt my KDR and Wallet, a lot. You'd still see me trying to take that point alone and failing over and over, its quite fun really.

Anyways, in my OP I say that we were only 3 dudes. 3 Dudes vs teams with 6 man squads form the same corp and they start the battle with a defeatist attitude. Yes we're mostly good players in my corp, but we're no were near so good that a 3 man team can win a battle against another full squad of experienced players. So why the lack of even trying?


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John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1794	Posted - 2014.02.01 12:47:00 - [1] - Quote Yeah...no. If it's a fair fight ill lose all the suits I need to to win, no question. When I'm carrying a team of randoms (and I ain't that good), I used to try to win, but losing 16 suits in a wholly futile effort is not fun for me, I don't have your billions of ill-gotten PC ISK, I can't afford to run proto (at all, much less 24/7), so that's not gonna happen. I could care less about my KDR but I'm not going broke in order to help the elite stomping corps have more fun at my expense. How about you spread the wealth around and give the little guys a chance to enter PC or not get farmed in pubs all day long before you get on your damn high horse and lecture the rest of us on our poor attitude. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.1 Amarr victor!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1794	Posted - 2014.02.01 13:01:00 - [2] - Quote KingBabar wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Yeah...no. If it's a fair fight ill lose all the suits I need to to win, no question. When I'm carrying a team of randoms (and I ain't that good), I used to try to win, but losing 16 suits in a wholly futile effort is not fun for me, I don't have your billions of ill-gotten PC ISK, I can't afford to run proto (at all, much less 24/7), so that's not gonna happen. I could care less about my KDR but I'm not going broke in order to help the elite stomping corps have more fun at my expense. How about you spread the wealth around and give the little guys a chance to enter PC or not get farmed in pubs all day long before you get on your damn high horse and lecture the rest of us on our poor attitude. If winning gains 3x as much as losing the rich will keep getting richer and the economy will get more and more broken and player retention will be even worse than it is now. You take away rewards for a loss and you destroy this game. Period. We don't have any PC districs and haven't had any except for a week long experiement. I dont sit on tons of isk because I've passively farmed them of PC. So there is no ill-gotten PC isk. Lets keep the facts straight. Fair enough, some of what I said admittedly is a little generalized and may not specifically apply to you, but I stand by my base argument that you are blaming the wrong people. The one group you should not implicate in one sided battles are the hapless stompees. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.1 Amarr victor!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1796	Posted - 2014.02.01 14:04:00 - [3] - Quote KingBabar wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: KingBabar wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Yeah...no. If it's a fair fight ill lose all the suits I need to to win, no question. When I'm carrying a team of randoms (and I ain't that good), I used to try to win, but losing 16 suits in a wholly futile effort is not fun for me, I don't have your billions of ill-gotten PC ISK, I can't afford to run proto (at all, much less 24/7), so that's not gonna happen. I could care less about my KDR but I'm not going broke in order to help the elite stomping corps have more fun at my expense. How about you spread the wealth around and give the little guys a chance to enter PC or not get farmed in pubs all day long before you get on your damn high horse and lecture the rest of us on our poor attitude. If winning gains 3x as much as losing the rich will keep getting richer and the economy will get more and more broken and player retention will be even worse than it is now. You take away rewards for a loss and you destroy this game. Period. We don't have any PC districs and haven't had any except for a week long experiement. I dont sit on tons of isk because I've passively farmed them of PC. So there is no ill-gotten PC isk. Lets keep the facts straight. Fair enough, some of what I said admittedly is a little generalized and may not specifically apply to you, but I stand by my base argument that you are blaming the wrong people. The one group you should not implicate in one sided battles are the stompees. Yeah well I don't agree. Its not like I never play solo and come up against stacked teams, but be assured, that game will most likely hurt my KDR and Wallet, a lot. You'd still see me trying to take that point alone and failing over and over, its quite fun really. Anyways, in my OP I say that we were only 3 dudes. 3 Dudes vs teams with 6 man squads form the same corp and they start the battle with a defeatist attitude. Yes we're mostly good players in my corp, but we're no were near so good that a 3 man team can win a battle against another full squad of experienced players. So why the lack of even trying? I guess I misread the OP somewhat, you got me there. If you were on the "minority" side then I would agree there is no excuse for a full squad from a decent corp to not try. I gladly take my lumps in an effort to get better if I at least have a sporting chance, my KDR will attest to that. But in the larger picture I'll give 2 ideas on how to "fix" things, one for CCP, the other a different "change in mentality" for the community. 1) For CCP: Matchmaking for fucks sake. Q syncing in pubs should be next to impossible. There should also never be 2 squads on one side and none on the other. 2) For the players: keep proto out of pubs. Yes, king, I know that good players will still be good with lower tier gear, that's one of the two classic tryhard arguments in favor or protostomping. And yes, it is 100% true for highly skilled players like you - but not all, there are plenty who need their proto crutch to succeed. BUT, if that's the case, then why do you do it? If you need somewhere to spend your money, go to FW; run all the proto you want there, and as a bonus there is plenty of challenge to be had fighting for Amarr and especially Caldari (I speak from experience, I have lost much ISK in the the Empress' name.) (As to the second classic proto argument, I earned the gear I can use it all I want, then, well fine, but don't complain that pubs are so one sided or ever ever ever lecture CCP about how they botch the NPE because you are part of the problem, not the solution.) "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.1 Amarr victor!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1800	Posted - 2014.02.01 19:39:00 - [4] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Quote: My personal choice for things done right would be to remove the sp dole and replace it with differential WP rewards - noob taking down 40 million sp vet running full proto should be damn well rewarded for it, that same vet should get fractional payouts for harvesting that same noob. But what we should all be rewarded handsomely for is the win. This right here +1. I personally don't want to run Proto 24/7, i want to be able to cry when i lose a proto suit or shake from the adrenaline of saving my suit from destruction, instead of the "Meh, i got 9000 more of those suits", but then they just made Tanks cost pennies. so yeah... Militia Gear should be dirt cheap Standard gear should be, you know the standard everyone is running Advanced gear should bite you in the wallet for dying in one Proto gear should be something you talk about seeing on the field like they talk about how real the Lochness Monster really is Officer gear should be like loosing your Capital Ship in Eve But loosing a 230k suit tingles a little, witch sadly does not prevent me from running mine 24/7. Excellent idea. It would also be nice if an ISK differential stat was available, to give people besides lolKDR to focus on and take the sting out of losing... I may have lost but I cost you a lot of money, jerk! One big issue is how to do what you propose. Just increasing costs won't work because there are still the Nyain San and AEs who print their own money, so even if you triple the cost, they can still run proto but nobody else will be able to. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.1 Amarr victor!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1811	Posted - 2014.02.02 05:21:00 - [5] - Quote OP: my you opened up quite the can of worms didn't you? Part of the problem is that a lot of us misread it and thought it was a typical try hard "git gut scrubs" post. (My bad). But, the bigger problem for me was the suggestion that losing sides should get no reward, which I think you now realize is not a great idea. Personally, moreso than some complex formula including redline activities, WP, ISK loss, meta level, etc etc, I think a more basic system of rewards based on the following is an easier way to do it (keep it simple for CCPs lolcoders!) - the amount of ISK you destroyed (or maybe meta level) - your rank on your team - a small bonus for winning, maybe 10-15%, enough to incentivize it but not enough to make wealth disparity worse than it already is. - if you want to make a special provision of no ISK reward for a 0/0/0 result, I'm cool with that. That plus a more comprehensive end of match summary with an ISK lost/destroyed stat would go a long way towards easing the frustration of the "stompees" p.s. Those who say we all got stomped when we we noobs, yes we were, but you can't be serious about the stomping being this bad back in beta. There's no way; going up against 2 full proto squads in a pub was unheard of back then! "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.1 Amarr victor!