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Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 10	Posted - 2014.01.21 13:42:00 - [91] - Quote I agree with 10% stamina and regen per level plus another bonus. 5% is a little poor considering this can be achieved with a basic module and is a little underwhelming. 20% would be unnecessary and feel weird from a rp perspective (I could believe it more easily if it was the result of mental green drugs). In reality there is not much difference between a basic and a complex cardiac regulator, which is why people tend to use a basic one or none at all. With a basic regulator you can generally run as far as you want with a minimal stamina recharge time. The issue is the use of a low slot as has been mentioned previously. The Amarr bonus saves a slot in the same way as the other suit's primary bonus. I also agree they need a secondary bonus like the other suits. I too was thinking a bonus to scrambler pistols. Scrambler pistol: extra ammo or extra clipsize. I like how both maintain the idea of the Amarr being "relentless". Also it nicely mirrors the minmatar bonus to knives. The questions are whether clipsize would be op or ammo would be rubbish? P.S. I know Tech De Ra stated these ideas earlier, just re-posting them as I had exactly the same ideas.
Fristname Family name The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 48	Posted - 2014.01.21 14:00:00 - [92] - Quote Best argument is that..... amar sucks how bout you just spec into everysingle thing you want then get your scout. Idk where the f you finding these stats ( been searching for hours ) but unless you link me there ammar scout should just be on fire. ___________killing tanks since 1989______ Hershal noooooooo :( ( walking dead
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 937	Posted - 2014.01.21 14:22:00 - [93] - Quote Hmm...I think they should possibly buff this bonus until they can give the Amarr Scouts some specific skill although leave the dropsuit with some actual stamina focus. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 20	Posted - 2014.01.21 15:17:00 - [94] - Quote Just a question - Has the 5% max stamina and stamina regen from the Biotic Upgrades skill been factored in to all of these calculations? "Shine bright like a diamond"
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5738	Posted - 2014.01.21 15:42:00 - [95] - Quote Master Smurf wrote: Just a question - Has the 5% max stamina and stamina regen from the Biotic Upgrades skill been factored in to all of these calculations? No, though feel free to add that 5% to all values listed, it does not change much. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Onesimus Tarsus 891	Posted - 2014.01.21 17:36:00 - [96] - Quote boba's fetta wrote: stamina doesnt matter much if they see you.. just saying. ... and if they can guess two or three bullets into you for the kill, not even cloaking matters. I don't date magnets, but it's difficult to deny the attraction.
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 537	Posted - 2014.01.21 17:54:00 - [97] - Quote Alright my counter argument. The reasoning for the amarr scout getting only a 25% increase to regen and stamina is because it ties in line with the same bonus multipliers as the other bonuses. The reasoning behind only 25% instead of 50/100% is because the balance lies in the fact CCP wants to ensure you still need to equip a card reg to really capitalize on that bonus. Same with all other scouts or racials for that matter. Minmitar - 25% bonus to hacking. Equates to 2 seconds less of hacking, not all that useful. With a cpx codebreaker 7 seconds less of hacking. Caldari - Precision enhancement gives you the option to see mediums but not scouts. Equip precision mod, you get to see scouts Galentte - Damp bonus enhancement keeps you safe from most scanners, but not prototype and not gal scanners. Amarr - Gives you longer run times and increased regen, adding a cpx card reg gives you the option to never stop running. Now if you gave the Amarr a 50% or 100% bonus to regen and stamina they would never have to slip in GREEN pills. It would effectively be a waste to the suit. Which I think is the main reasoning for the way the bonus is balanced. Also, it is important to balance from the top down. That measly hp bonus actually equates to 87 more hitpoints when skilled up. PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Youtube
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5748	Posted - 2014.01.21 17:58:00 - [98] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Alright my counter argument. The reasoning for the amarr scout getting only a 25% increase to regen and stamina is because it ties in line with the same bonus multipliers as the other bonuses. The reasoning behind only 25% instead of 50/100% is because the balance lies in the fact CCP wants to ensure you still need to equip a card reg to really capitalize on that bonus. Same with all other scouts or racials for that matter. Minmitar - 25% bonus to hacking. Equates to 2 seconds less of hacking, not all that useful. With a cpx codebreaker 7 seconds less of hacking. Caldari - Precision enhancement gives you the option to see mediums but not scouts. Equip precision mod, you get to see scouts Galentte - Damp bonus enhancement keeps you safe from most scanners, but not prototype and not gal scanners. Amarr - Gives you longer run times and increased regen, adding a cpx card reg gives you the option to never stop running. Now if you gave the Amarr a 50% or 100% bonus to regen and stamina they would never have to slip in GREEN pills. It would effectively be a waste to the suit. Which I think is the main reasoning for the way the bonus is balanced. Also, it is important to balance from the top down. That measly hp bonus actually equates to 87 more hitpoints when skilled up. As stated, never needing to slip in a green pill saves you one low slot. As compared to other bonuses like say the Gallente's profile dampening, you still need to slip in more profile dampening but the amount you need to is one less than everyone else, so that saves you one low slot. However, because not needing to slip a green pill at all saves you SP that is why I am backing down to 50% at level 5. And actually your math is wrong, the measly 30 extra hit points actually equates to 37.5 more hitpoints when Armor and Shield Upgrades are maxed compared to the Gal and Cal scouts with those skills maxed as well. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 537	Posted - 2014.01.21 18:07:00 - [99] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Alright my counter argument. The reasoning for the amarr scout getting only a 25% increase to regen and stamina is because it ties in line with the same bonus multipliers as the other bonuses. The reasoning behind only 25% instead of 50/100% is because the balance lies in the fact CCP wants to ensure you still need to equip a card reg to really capitalize on that bonus. Same with all other scouts or racials for that matter. Minmitar - 25% bonus to hacking. Equates to 2 seconds less of hacking, not all that useful. With a cpx codebreaker 7 seconds less of hacking. Caldari - Precision enhancement gives you the option to see mediums but not scouts. Equip precision mod, you get to see scouts Galentte - Damp bonus enhancement keeps you safe from most scanners, but not prototype and not gal scanners. Amarr - Gives you longer run times and increased regen, adding a cpx card reg gives you the option to never stop running. Now if you gave the Amarr a 50% or 100% bonus to regen and stamina they would never have to slip in GREEN pills. It would effectively be a waste to the suit. Which I think is the main reasoning for the way the bonus is balanced. Also, it is important to balance from the top down. That measly hp bonus actually equates to 87 more hitpoints when skilled up. As stated, never needing to slip in a green pill saves you one low slot. As compared to other bonuses like say the Gallente's profile dampening, you still need to slip in more profile dampening but the amount you need to is one less than everyone else, so that saves you one low slot. However, because not needing to slip a green pill at all saves you SP that is why I am backing down to 50% at level 5. And actually your math is wrong, the measly 30 extra hit points actually equates to 37.5 more hitpoints when Armor and Shield Upgrades are maxed compared to the Gal and Cal scouts with those skills maxed as well. EDIT: And also the Gallente profile bonus does get you under proto scanners without needing anything else, just not Gal proto scanners. But that is besides the point. Yes but the idea is to balance bonus vs bonus. I understand what you mean when you say that other suits have to fit additional slots to equate the same effective bonus. At 50% more stamina and regen without any greens the amarr will never NEED to fit a green. While all other scouts will have to, at some point need to fit another mod of the same bonus type to be effective. PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Youtube
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5750	Posted - 2014.01.21 18:13:00 - [100] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Alright my counter argument. The reasoning for the amarr scout getting only a 25% increase to regen and stamina is because it ties in line with the same bonus multipliers as the other bonuses. The reasoning behind only 25% instead of 50/100% is because the balance lies in the fact CCP wants to ensure you still need to equip a card reg to really capitalize on that bonus. Same with all other scouts or racials for that matter. Minmitar - 25% bonus to hacking. Equates to 2 seconds less of hacking, not all that useful. With a cpx codebreaker 7 seconds less of hacking. Caldari - Precision enhancement gives you the option to see mediums but not scouts. Equip precision mod, you get to see scouts Galentte - Damp bonus enhancement keeps you safe from most scanners, but not prototype and not gal scanners. Amarr - Gives you longer run times and increased regen, adding a cpx card reg gives you the option to never stop running. Now if you gave the Amarr a 50% or 100% bonus to regen and stamina they would never have to slip in GREEN pills. It would effectively be a waste to the suit. Which I think is the main reasoning for the way the bonus is balanced. Also, it is important to balance from the top down. That measly hp bonus actually equates to 87 more hitpoints when skilled up. As stated, never needing to slip in a green pill saves you one low slot. As compared to other bonuses like say the Gallente's profile dampening, you still need to slip in more profile dampening but the amount you need to is one less than everyone else, so that saves you one low slot. However, because not needing to slip a green pill at all saves you SP that is why I am backing down to 50% at level 5. And actually your math is wrong, the measly 30 extra hit points actually equates to 37.5 more hitpoints when Armor and Shield Upgrades are maxed compared to the Gal and Cal scouts with those skills maxed as well. EDIT: And also the Gallente profile bonus does get you under proto scanners without needing anything else, just not Gal proto scanners. But that is besides the point. Yes but the idea is to balance bonus vs bonus. I understand what you mean when you say that other suits have to fit additional slots to equate the same effective bonus. But a bonus to the suit doesn't incur stack penalties. At 50% more stamina and regen without any greens the amarr will never NEED to fit a green. While all other scouts will have to, at some point need to fit another mod of the same bonus type to be effective. If an Amarr suit will never need to fit a green, then why are you talking stacking penalties? Also the no stacking penalty thing also applies to every other racial bonus as well. And my point stands, all the bonus would do by not needing to fit a green is free up one low slot. This is equivalent to every other scout also freeing up one low slot with their bonus, even if they still need to fit more. Let me explain: The subjects here will be the Scout gk.0 and Scout ak.0 since they have the same slot layout. The ak.0 doesn't need to fit a green, still has all 4 lows The gk.0 needs to fit a green, has 3 lows left The ak.0 needs to apply 2 complex profile dampeners to avoid Gal logi scans, has 2 lows left The gk.0 needs to apply 1 complex profile dampener to avoid Gal logi scans, has 2 lows left See what I'm getting at? Simply saying "never needing to fit a green" isn't a valid enough argument without providing the context. However, a good counter argument would be what Son-Of A-Gun stated, which is that never fitting a green means you can save SP. That is why my opinion is now changed from 20% per level to 10% per level and with another small secondary bonus like the rest of the scouts. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open

Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5751	Posted - 2014.01.21 18:17:00 - [101] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: EDIT: Gal wont be immune to the focused scanner (14dB) until they fit damps. Regardless of who is running the focused. General rule of thumb when talking about proto scanners (plural) is all proto scanners except the Duvolle Focused, as they are all 28 dB. The Duvolle Focused is just one scanner (singular). However, the point still holds that however many profile dampeners the other scouts need to fit to avoid the Duvolle Focused, the Gal scout will need one less. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 537	Posted - 2014.01.21 18:21:00 - [102] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: EDIT: Gal wont be immune to the focused scanner (14dB) until they fit damps. Regardless of who is running the focused. General rule of thumb when talking about proto scanners (plural) is all proto scanners except the Duvolle Focused, as they are all 28 dB. The Duvolle Focused is just one scanner (singular). However, the point still holds that however many profile dampeners the other scouts need to fit to avoid the Duvolle Focused, the Gal scout will need one less. I understand that. But you haven't debated the argument of needing to still fit card regs on an Amarr scout at 50%. They will never need to fit them. While all other scouts will still need to fit a mod for their bonus to be effective. PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Youtube
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5751	Posted - 2014.01.21 18:25:00 - [103] - Quote Also since I double posted and one post got left behind on the last page, just wanting to make sure that you see that one as well. It covers that argument. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12424	Posted - 2014.01.21 19:10:00 - [104] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: How long could a Proto Amarr scout run with a complex reg+100 percent boost from the optimal skill? That's with lows filled with complex regs. With current stats(5%) AK 1443 Meters MK 1057 Meters GK 1065 Meters CK 780 Meters This argument in particular I find holds little value because, as you already stated there would be no reason for an Amarr scout to fit a cardiac regulator, let alone 4, and likewise any other race to equip more than 1. And in that case, we are back to the values presented in the first post. Then an additional n% has no value either to the bonus outside of reducing the number of modules not fit. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5753	Posted - 2014.01.21 19:12:00 - [105] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: How long could a Proto Amarr scout run with a complex reg+100 percent boost from the optimal skill? That's with lows filled with complex regs. With current stats(5%) AK 1443 Meters MK 1057 Meters GK 1065 Meters CK 780 Meters This argument in particular I find holds little value because, as you already stated there would be no reason for an Amarr scout to fit a cardiac regulator, let alone 4, and likewise any other race to equip more than 1. And in that case, we are back to the values presented in the first post. Then an additional n% has no value either. It does, because the current 5% per level puts the Amarr scout at about 29 seconds of sprint, which isn't quite the same as "infinite sprint" like the other scouts would have in the detailed math of my original post to this thread. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3279	Posted - 2014.01.21 19:13:00 - [106] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: How long could a Proto Amarr scout run with a complex reg+100 percent boost from the optimal skill? That's with lows filled with complex regs. With current stats(5%) AK 1443 Meters MK 1057 Meters GK 1065 Meters CK 780 Meters This argument in particular I find holds little value because, as you already stated there would be no reason for an Amarr scout to fit a cardiac regulator, let alone 4, and likewise any other race to equip more than 1. And in that case, we are back to the values presented in the first post. Then an additional n% has no value either to the bonus outside of reducing the number of modules not fit. That's... kind of a large value actually. Join my cult.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 1004	Posted - 2014.01.21 19:15:00 - [107] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: How long could a Proto Amarr scout run with a complex reg+100 percent boost from the optimal skill? That's with lows filled with complex regs. With current stats(5%) AK 1443 Meters MK 1057 Meters GK 1065 Meters CK 780 Meters This argument in particular I find holds little value because, as you already stated there would be no reason for an Amarr scout to fit a cardiac regulator, let alone 4, and likewise any other race to equip more than 1. And in that case, we are back to the values presented in the first post. Then an additional n% has no value either to the bonus outside of reducing the number of modules not fit. When does an additional n% have no value? Jump much? {:)}{3GÇó>
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 541	Posted - 2014.01.21 19:36:00 - [108] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Alright my counter argument. snip snip snip If an Amarr suit will never need to fit a green, then why are you talking stacking penalties? Also the no stacking penalty thing also applies to every other racial bonus as well. And my point stands, all the bonus would do by not needing to fit a green is free up one low slot. This is equivalent to every other scout also freeing up one low slot with their bonus, even if they still need to fit more. Let me explain: The subjects here will be the Scout gk.0 and Scout ak.0 since they have the same slot layout. The ak.0 doesn't need to fit a green, still has all 4 lows The gk.0 needs to fit a green, has 3 lows left The ak.0 needs to apply 2 complex profile dampeners to avoid Gal logi scans, has 2 lows left The gk.0 needs to apply 1 complex profile dampener to avoid Gal logi scans, has 2 lows left See what I'm getting at? Simply saying "never needing to fit a green" isn't a valid enough argument without providing the context. However, a good counter argument would be what Son-Of A-Gun stated, which is that never fitting a green means you can save SP. That is why my opinion is now changed from 20% per level to 10% per level and with another small secondary bonus like the rest of the scouts. My counter point has plenty of context. All the other suits are required to still use the mod with which they get a bonus for. If amarr got a 50% bonus they would never have a reason to fit a card reg. Tipping the scales in the other direction. 50% is just too much of a bonus. You stated that a 2 second less stamina boost is useless, which is the current bonus for Amarr. Well you get 2 less seconds to hack as a minmitar. Is that bonus equally as useless? 2 seconds less hacking time is only when hacking, while utilizing stamina is an all battle long skill bonus. Does that mean a minmitar should never have to fit codebreakers? If so they should just get a 75% bonus to hack speed so it "frees up a slot" I would rather as a minmitar scout have a 25% bonus to stamina than a 25% hack bonus. Stamina is the life blood of a scout. The hack bonus is uselss by itself, its only useful when coupled with the mods it bonuses that it becomes useful. Thats the whole point of the stamina bonus to amarr currently. Its not all that great until you utilize a card reg. I understand where you are coming from in terms of "mod cost" but role bonuses are not there to "free up a slot" they are there to create a ROLE. PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Youtube
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 316	Posted - 2014.01.21 19:38:00 - [109] - Quote The "saving" SP excuse is invalid. This is "core" passive skills EVERYBODY should have level 5 once you got 10 million SP...... Even me on my Logi have it level 5.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12426	Posted - 2014.01.21 19:42:00 - [110] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: How long could a Proto Amarr scout run with a complex reg+100 percent boost from the optimal skill? That's with lows filled with complex regs. With current stats(5%) AK 1443 Meters MK 1057 Meters GK 1065 Meters CK 780 Meters This argument in particular I find holds little value because, as you already stated there would be no reason for an Amarr scout to fit a cardiac regulator, let alone 4, and likewise any other race to equip more than 1. And in that case, we are back to the values presented in the first post. Then an additional n% has no value either. It does, because the current 5% per level puts the Amarr scout at about 29 seconds of sprint, which isn't quite the same as "infinite sprint" like the other scouts would have in the detailed math of my original post to this thread. /me plugs in an additional 5% per level. for a total of 50% at lvl 5 Marathon Fits (regulators) Ak. 7.29 m/s 1767.90 meters covered a cycle Mk. 7.81 m/s 1091.68 meters covered a cycle Gk. 7.53 m/s 1102.09 meters covered a cycle Ck. 7.49 m/s 816 meters covered a cycle Nekkid (no bonus) Ak. 6.93 m/s 194 meters covered a cycle Mk. 7.40 m/s 200 meters covered a cycle Gk. 7.08 m/s 188 meters covered a cycle Ck. 7.08 m/s 188 meters covered a cycle Bonused Nekkid Ak. 6.93 m/s 292.3 meters covered a cycle Dash Fits (Kin kats) Ak. 22.39 m/s 906 meters covered a cycle Mk. 21.25 m/s 573 meters covered a cycle Gk. 22.66 m/s 604 meters covered a cycle Ck. 15.58 m/s 415 meters covered a cycle CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked

Mordecai Sanguine What The French 316	Posted - 2014.01.21 19:49:00 - [111] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Alright my counter argument. snip snip snip If an Amarr suit will never need to fit a green, then why are you talking stacking penalties? Also the no stacking penalty thing also applies to every other racial bonus as well. And my point stands, all the bonus would do by not needing to fit a green is free up one low slot. This is equivalent to every other scout also freeing up one low slot with their bonus, even if they still need to fit more. Let me explain: The subjects here will be the Scout gk.0 and Scout ak.0 since they have the same slot layout. The ak.0 doesn't need to fit a green, still has all 4 lows The gk.0 needs to fit a green, has 3 lows left The ak.0 needs to apply 2 complex profile dampeners to avoid Gal logi scans, has 2 lows left The gk.0 needs to apply 1 complex profile dampener to avoid Gal logi scans, has 2 lows left See what I'm getting at? Simply saying "never needing to fit a green" isn't a valid enough argument without providing the context. However, a good counter argument would be what Son-Of A-Gun stated, which is that never fitting a green means you can save SP. That is why my opinion is now changed from 20% per level to 10% per level and with another small secondary bonus like the rest of the scouts. My counter point has plenty of context. All the other suits are required to still use the mod with which they get a bonus for. If amarr got a 50% bonus they would never have a reason to fit a card reg. Tipping the scales in the other direction. 50% is just too much of a bonus. You stated that a 2 second less stamina boost is useless, which is the current bonus for Amarr. Well you get 2 less seconds to hack as a minmitar. Is that bonus equally as useless? 2 seconds less hacking time is only when hacking, while utilizing stamina is an all battle long skill bonus. Does that mean a minmitar should never have to fit codebreakers? If so they should just get a 75% bonus to hack speed so it "frees up a slot" I would rather as a minmitar scout have a 25% bonus to stamina than a 25% hack bonus. Stamina is the life blood of a scout. The hack bonus is uselss by itself, its only useful when coupled with the mods it bonuses that it becomes useful. Thats the whole point of the stamina bonus to amarr currently. Its not all that great until you utilize a card reg. I understand where you are coming from in terms of "mod cost" but role bonuses are not there to "free up a slot" they are there to create a ROLE. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL. Dude this is so What Da'Hell....... Agains this is an opinion from someone that's NEVER going to use Amarr Scout...... You forgot one ESSENTIEL thing : 2 sec of hacks means 2 sec without possibility to MOVE SHOOT SEE THE ENNEMY AND everybody know you're here. 2 sec of run is....well nothing. Amarr Scout is the slowest same than assault. Dodging is not possible for him. He CAN'T run away of battle. You're trying to explain how stamina is useful on YOUR SUIT which is damn fast. Here we have a SLOOOOW suit everything you think you can do with stamina is IMPOSSIBLE for Amarr. Escape a fight ? NO. Dodge bullets ? NO. Go left then fast go left around a corner ? NO. And finally it's the cheaper Mod and we don't even hve one basic..... Any suits wants the Level 5 of Amarr ? Fit a Basic Cardiac Reg : SP cost : 40.000 PG : 4 CPU 5 Now let see if Amarr wants others suits onus level 5 : Minmatarr : Codebreaker Complex : SP cost : A Million. 11 PG Damager Complex : SP cost : 700.000 SP. Well you wanted the SP "excuse" well it's saving 40.000SP against almost 2 Million. Funny isn't how "argument" can be reversed ?
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5758	Posted - 2014.01.21 19:50:00 - [112] - Quote IWS, you can't compare an Amarr scout with bonus AND module to the other scouts just with module. Did you even read the OP? I explained why this is a fallacy. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
DozersMouse XIII Ultramarine Corp 100	Posted - 2014.01.21 19:52:00 - [113] - Quote stamina is one of the best items a scout can have it allows for jumping to nova knife a red dot it allows you to jump over all the little crap others have to go around it allows you to get up on that hilltop to snipe right off the bat its a great bonus for uplink running like I said before stamina can be the difference between life and death for the scout Bacon pancakes makin' bacon pancakes Take some bacon and I'll put it a pancake Bacon pancakes thats what it's gonna make
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12427	Posted - 2014.01.21 19:54:00 - [114] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: IWS, you can't compare an Amarr scout with bonus AND module to the other scouts just with module. Did you even read the OP? I explained why this is a fallacy. Cant you read? Nekkid Nekkid (bonused) I will also state it again Modules and Bonuses and Innate stats of the suit are inseparable. Prove me wrong by giving the amarr bonus to the caldari. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5758	Posted - 2014.01.21 19:55:00 - [115] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: My counter point has plenty of context. All the other suits are required to still use the mod with which they get a bonus for. If amarr got a 50% bonus they would never have a reason to fit a card reg. Tipping the scales in the other direction. 50% is just too much of a bonus. You stated that a 2 second less stamina boost is useless, which is the current bonus for Amarr. Well you get 2 less seconds to hack as a minmitar. Is that bonus equally as useless? 2 seconds less hacking time is only when hacking, while utilizing stamina is an all battle long skill bonus. Does that mean a minmitar should never have to fit codebreakers? If so they should just get a 75% bonus to hack speed so it "frees up a slot" I would rather as a minmitar scout have a 25% bonus to stamina than a 25% hack bonus. Stamina is the life blood of a scout. The hack bonus is uselss by itself, its only useful when coupled with the mods it bonuses that it becomes useful. Thats the whole point of the stamina bonus to amarr currently. Its not all that great until you utilize a card reg. I understand where you are coming from in terms of "mod cost" but role bonuses are not there to "free up a slot" they are there to create a ROLE. If the Amarr scout bonus is only 5% per level, it gets 28.1 seconds of sprint. Now say it adds a complex codebreaker to get the same hacking speed as a Minmatar scout. Since the Minmatar scout doesn't need to use a module to get that hacking speed, he can use the slot instead for a complex cardiac regulator. So now the Amarr and Minmatar scout both have the same hacking speed, except the Amarr scout can sprint for 28.1 seconds and the Minmatar scout can sprint for 44.1 seconds (all while being faster too!). Please, tell me how this is valid. This is the sort of context that your arguments are lacking. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
DozersMouse XIII Ultramarine Corp 100	Posted - 2014.01.21 19:55:00 - [116] - Quote the amarr scout is the slowest but has 4 low slot to fit as you desire Bacon pancakes makin' bacon pancakes Take some bacon and I'll put it a pancake Bacon pancakes thats what it's gonna make
DozersMouse XIII Ultramarine Corp 100	Posted - 2014.01.21 19:56:00 - [117] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: My counter point has plenty of context. All the other suits are required to still use the mod with which they get a bonus for. If amarr got a 50% bonus they would never have a reason to fit a card reg. Tipping the scales in the other direction. 50% is just too much of a bonus. You stated that a 2 second less stamina boost is useless, which is the current bonus for Amarr. Well you get 2 less seconds to hack as a minmitar. Is that bonus equally as useless? 2 seconds less hacking time is only when hacking, while utilizing stamina is an all battle long skill bonus. Does that mean a minmitar should never have to fit codebreakers? If so they should just get a 75% bonus to hack speed so it "frees up a slot" I would rather as a minmitar scout have a 25% bonus to stamina than a 25% hack bonus. Stamina is the life blood of a scout. The hack bonus is uselss by itself, its only useful when coupled with the mods it bonuses that it becomes useful. Thats the whole point of the stamina bonus to amarr currently. Its not all that great until you utilize a card reg. I understand where you are coming from in terms of "mod cost" but role bonuses are not there to "free up a slot" they are there to create a ROLE. If the Amarr scout bonus is only 5% per level, it gets 28.1 seconds of sprint. Now say it adds a complex codebreaker to get the same hacking speed as a Minmatar scout. Since the Minmatar scout doesn't need to use a module to get that hacking speed, he can use the slot instead for a complex cardiac regulator. So now the Amarr and Minmatar scout both have the same hacking speed, except the Amarr scout can sprint for 28.1 seconds and the Minmatar scout can sprint for 44.1 seconds (all while being faster too!). Please, tell me how this is valid. This is the sort of context that your arguments are lacking. the minmatar scout only has 3 low slots Bacon pancakes makin' bacon pancakes Take some bacon and I'll put it a pancake Bacon pancakes thats what it's gonna make
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5758	Posted - 2014.01.21 20:00:00 - [118] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: IWS, you can't compare an Amarr scout with bonus AND module to the other scouts just with module. Did you even read the OP? I explained why this is a fallacy. Cant you read? Nekkid Nekkid (bonused) I was looking at the marathon stats and saw the difference between Amarr and the others and jumped a little quickly, my apologies. Still, the marathon max'd out stamina bonus comparison does not have any value as after adding one complex cardiac regulator to any scout you don't need to worry about stamina anymore. And you also do not include the comparison of Amarr with bonus versus other scouts with module, which is the most important comparison. If the Amarr scout bonus is only 5% per level, it gets 28.1 seconds of sprint. Now say it adds a complex codebreaker to get the same hacking speed as a Minmatar scout. Since the Minmatar scout doesn't need to use a module to get that hacking speed, he can use the slot instead for a complex cardiac regulator. So now the Amarr and Minmatar scout both have the same hacking speed, except the Amarr scout can sprint for 28.1 seconds and the Minmatar scout can sprint for 44.1 seconds (all while being faster too!). Please, tell me how this is valid. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5758	Posted - 2014.01.21 20:01:00 - [119] - Quote DozersMouse XIII wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: My counter point has plenty of context. All the other suits are required to still use the mod with which they get a bonus for. If amarr got a 50% bonus they would never have a reason to fit a card reg. Tipping the scales in the other direction. 50% is just too much of a bonus. You stated that a 2 second less stamina boost is useless, which is the current bonus for Amarr. Well you get 2 less seconds to hack as a minmitar. Is that bonus equally as useless? 2 seconds less hacking time is only when hacking, while utilizing stamina is an all battle long skill bonus. Does that mean a minmitar should never have to fit codebreakers? If so they should just get a 75% bonus to hack speed so it "frees up a slot" I would rather as a minmitar scout have a 25% bonus to stamina than a 25% hack bonus. Stamina is the life blood of a scout. The hack bonus is uselss by itself, its only useful when coupled with the mods it bonuses that it becomes useful. Thats the whole point of the stamina bonus to amarr currently. Its not all that great until you utilize a card reg. I understand where you are coming from in terms of "mod cost" but role bonuses are not there to "free up a slot" they are there to create a ROLE. If the Amarr scout bonus is only 5% per level, it gets 28.1 seconds of sprint. Now say it adds a complex codebreaker to get the same hacking speed as a Minmatar scout. Since the Minmatar scout doesn't need to use a module to get that hacking speed, he can use the slot instead for a complex cardiac regulator. So now the Amarr and Minmatar scout both have the same hacking speed, except the Amarr scout can sprint for 28.1 seconds and the Minmatar scout can sprint for 44.1 seconds (all while being faster too!). Please, tell me how this is valid. This is the sort of context that your arguments are lacking. the minmatar scout only has 3 low slots And 3 highs, while Amarr has 2 highs. Same number of slots. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Greasepalms Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 425	Posted - 2014.01.21 20:01:00 - [120] - Quote the bonus definitely looks lackluster but if they buff it they have to be careful not to make the amarr scout a bunnyhopping suit. Lots of people are mentioning running distance but don't forget stamina is used for hopping as well.



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