| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
5675
   |
Posted - 2014.01.21 05:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Over the several threads and posts regarding the Amarr scout bonus, no one has yet to attempt to counter this argument right here:
If the Amarr scout's bonus was 20% per level, it would have 45 seconds of sprint at level 5.
If a Gallente scout equipped a complex cardiac regulator, it would have 42 seconds of sprint.
If a Caldari scout equipped a complex cardiac regulator, it would have 42 seconds of sprint.
If a Minmatar scout equipped a complex cardiac regulator, it would have 44.1 seconds of sprint.
All of these are comparable values, plus they are also faster than the Amarr so would travel further in the slightly shorter time frame.
And yes, it would be fair that these suits would have to equip a module to achieve comparable performance because likewise, the Amarr scout would have to equip a complex profile dampner, a complex precision enhancer, or complex codebreaker to achieve comparable performance to the other scouts in these respective areas.
So, anyone want to take a crack at countering this?
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
|
True Adamance
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
5985
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 05:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm willing to revise my current position on this if someone can make a well reasoned argument against this .
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
|
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
2905
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 05:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
I can counter it:
Sprinting for 45 seconds is bloody pointless. Give the Amarr something useful 
No.
|
JL3Eleven
1589
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 05:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Because you touch yourself.
How did I do?
Supercorp: A corporation with the ability to shape and control events and project power on a New Eden-wide scale.
|
ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
95
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 05:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
So you two are the same person then - its decided! :)
By the way your logic appears to be sound. |
Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1689
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 05:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
We'll you can get to objectives before other scouts built to run faster
( TROLL FACE )
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
5797
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 05:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
CPU/PG.
A complex cardiac regulator is a CPU/PG hog that profile damps and precision enhancers simply aren't.
It was in another scout thread that I saw where someone did the math, if you compare it in terms of CPU/PG, it all fits.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
KING CHECKMATE
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
3876
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 05:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:I can counter it: Sprinting for 45 seconds is bloody pointless. Give the Amarr something useful
Gallente : Uber Long ranged pasive radar + Complex profile dampener! (not to mention new innate 3 armor PER Sec repair!
Caldari: Uber precise Radar capabilities + Complex Profile dampener!
Minmatar: Uber leet Cx Codebreaker + 3 Cx Damage mosd worth in Nova Knife damage!
Amarr: Runs more... equivalent to less than a MLT cardiac reg.
Something is off....
GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
|
True Adamance
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
5992
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 05:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:CPU/PG.
A complex cardiac regulator is a CPU/PG hog that profile damps and precision enhancers simply aren't.
It was in another scout thread that I saw where someone did the math, if you compare it in terms of CPU/PG, it all fits.
Can you elaborate more. Where last I checked the Cardiac Regulator isn't that much of a fittings hog.
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
|
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
5678
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 05:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:CPU/PG.
A complex cardiac regulator is a CPU/PG hog that profile damps and precision enhancers simply aren't.
It was in another scout thread that I saw where someone did the math, if you compare it in terms of CPU/PG, it all fits.
Amarr: Standard cardiac regulator: 5CPU 4PG
Gallente: Complex profile dampener and standard range amp: 48CPU 0PG
Caldari: Complex precision enhancer and standard range amp: 31 CPU 0PG
Minmatar: Complex codebreaker (ignoring NK damage since that's hard to equate to a module): 45CPU 11PG
Currently, the Amarr bonus's "CPU/PG equivalency" is not nearly in line with the rest. And for the record, a complex cardiac regulator is 12 CPU 8 PG, so I fail to see how your argument holds up. Care to explain?
For the record, if anyone can counter this thread's argument soundly, then I will change my opinion.
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
|
|
|
True Adamance
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
6021
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 06:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
As will I. I'm not about to hold onto an ideal where someone presents me with irrefutable evidence that it is or is not correct.
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
|
Marad''er
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
463
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 06:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
Running longer is obviously a sin... lol
GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢
Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà
Forum Warrior LV. 4 | pâÅpéñpâápü»tºüpü«µëôµÆâpéÆF¦ápüúpüªpüäpéï | PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
|
King of Ghosts
Nos Nothi
63
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 06:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Cat Merc wrote:CPU/PG.
A complex cardiac regulator is a CPU/PG hog that profile damps and precision enhancers simply aren't.
It was in another scout thread that I saw where someone did the math, if you compare it in terms of CPU/PG, it all fits. Can you elaborate more. Where last I checked the Cardiac Regulator isn't that much of a fittings hog.
It's not. It's like what? 15 CPU and 8 PG at proto?
That Hack bonus though. 54 CPU and 11 PG for a complex codebreaker. And it free's up a low slot.
I'm in love with my Min Scout.
I really hope you guys find something useful though 
The only Idea I had was a bonus to ferroscale plates, letting you armor tank more effectively without slowing down...
I am most definitely, maybe, probably, possibly, PERHAPS, Ghost Kaisar.
Nos Nothi Moderator: Call me if you need me.
|
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
5691
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 06:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
King Ghosts, it's actually 12 CPU 8 PG 
And honestly guys, this argument in the OP is the fundamental reason why I believe the current values of the Amarr racial bonus are under powered. So either
a) Someone provides a clear counter and thus I am ok with the current planned bonus
or
b) No one can provide a counter, CCP sees this, they can't provide a counter, and they update the bonus
It's a win-win situation and hopefully shows that I'm trying to be rational.
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
|
IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
531
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 06:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
Aero please include an example of your math so we understand how you determined the numbers. Not being a troll, honest.
PHI Recruitment
or PHIsh Tank in game
Youtube
|
Green Living
0uter.Heaven
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
1164
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 06:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bump. Saving my SP for the Amarr scout now. |
TechMechMeds
Swamp Tempo
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
2257
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 06:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
I think the amarr, as their ethos goes, is relentless assault, grinding all beneath the boot type thing so with that stamina with one cardiac regulator means that you always remain getting in and out of combat at a steady unrelenting pace, never faltering, never giving the enemy one inch.
Rp: Your faith gives you the strength to never yield.
I'm not sure though, just trying to make sense of it.
Level 2 forum warrior.
Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam
I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
|
TechMechMeds
Swamp Tempo
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
2257
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 06:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
You'd never run out of stamina, ever pretty much.
Level 2 forum warrior.
Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam
I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
|
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
5691
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 06:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
IgniteableAura wrote:Aero please include an example of your math so we understand how you determined the numbers. Not being a troll, honest.
Amarr Scout Base Stamina: 225
20% per level = 100% bonus at level 5
225 x 2 = 450 = 45 seconds
Now for the complex cardiac regulators, they are 100% bonuses as well but also the skill is 2% efficacy per level, so once you can buy complex regulators they are actually 110%. This is fair to include in the calculations since the Amarr scout wouldn't be able to take advantage of this skill.
Gallente Scout Base Stamina: 200
110% bonus
200 * 2.1 = 420 = 42 seconds
Caldari Scout Base Stamina: 200
110% bonus
200 * 2.1 = 420 = 42 seconds
Minmatar Scout Base Stamina: 210
110% bonus
210 * 2.1 = 441 = 44.1 seconds
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
|
NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
42
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 06:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:I can counter it: Sprinting for 45 seconds is bloody pointless. Give the Amarr something useful Gallente : Uber Long ranged pasive radar + Complex profile dampener! (not to mention new innate 3 armor PER Sec repair! Caldari: Uber precise Radar capabilities + Complex Profile dampener! Minmatar: Uber leet Cx Codebreaker + 3 Cx Damage mosd worth in Nova Knife damage! Amarr: Runs more... equivalent to less than a MLT cardiac reg. Something is off....
Caldari dont get bones equal to a dampener. |
|
|
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
5695
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 06:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:You'd never run out of stamina, ever pretty much.
Is that supposed to be your counter? Because neither would any of the other scouts in my argument, pretty much.
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
|
TechMechMeds
Swamp Tempo
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
2258
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 06:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
I'm not trying to justify it either or prove anything about its validity, just chucking that out there.
Scouts by nature don't even seem to fit the Amarr code of honour, if you was truly faithful, why'd you need to hide? Or even run fast for that matter? Why would you run?
Meh lol 
Level 2 forum warrior.
Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam
I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
|
TechMechMeds
Swamp Tempo
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
2258
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 06:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:You'd never run out of stamina, ever pretty much. Is that supposed to be your counter? Because neither would any of the other scouts in my argument, pretty much.
Nah I'm not even arguing lol.
Level 2 forum warrior.
Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam
I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
|
Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
996
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 06:25:00 -
[24] - Quote
alright, counter argument against 20%, sure I'll bite.
The cardiac regulator is one of the very few modules where once you equip one you hardly feel the need to ever equip another. Giving the Amarr the 20% Bonus, in order to equate to a complex would be the equivalent of giving the Gal or Cal a 500% bonus to scan radius (which would be necessary to get them up to around 80m scan radius), so that they would have no need to ever equip a range amp.
I could support a 10% bonus but not a 20%.
{:)}{3GÇó>
|
TechMechMeds
Swamp Tempo
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
2258
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 06:28:00 -
[25] - Quote
Oh yeah I'm knackered, forgot the likes lol.
Level 2 forum warrior.
Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam
I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
|
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
5701
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 06:29:00 -
[26] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:alright, counter argument against 20%, sure I'll bite.
The cardiac regulator is one of the very few modules where once you equip one you hardly feel the need to ever equip another. Giving the Amarr the 20% Bonus, in order to equate to a complex, would be the equivalent of giving the Gal or Cal a 500% bonus to scan radius (which would be necessary to get them up to around 80m scan radius), so that they would have no need to ever equip a range amp.
I could support a 10% bonus but not a 20%.
Explain your reasoning a bit more? Particularly how it relates to the stats I posted comparing the results of the Amarr stamina bonus compared to other scouts using a single complex cardiac regulator, and how it is fair to make that comparison.
Not trying to be a jerk, I am very open to hearing what you have to say, however I'd like a little more detail and logic (esepcially behind how you got that 500% number) so I can better understand your point of view.
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
|
TechMechMeds
Swamp Tempo
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
2258
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 06:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
Done lol
Level 2 forum warrior.
Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam
I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
|
IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
533
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 06:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:IgniteableAura wrote:Aero please include an example of your math so we understand how you determined the numbers. Not being a troll, honest. Amarr Scout Base Stamina: 225 20% per level = 100% bonus at level 5 225 x 2 = 450 = 45 seconds Now for the complex cardiac regulators, they are 100% bonuses as well but also the skill is 2% efficacy per level, so once you can buy complex regulators they are actually 110%. This is fair to include in the calculations since the Amarr scout wouldn't be able to take advantage of this skill. Gallente Scout Base Stamina: 200 110% bonus 200 * 2.1 = 420 = 42 seconds Caldari Scout Base Stamina: 200 110% bonus 200 * 2.1 = 420 = 42 seconds Minmatar Scout Base Stamina: 210 110% bonus 210 * 2.1 = 441 = 44.1 seconds
Thanks. I'll do some digging tomorrow. Bit I'm curious what effects the regen and speed have on the overall picture. So might be best to determine how far they go in a given timeframe. Or perhaps a m/s compare. I don't know how to do that without some digging. But perhaps someone with l33t math skills can do it.
Might end up proving your point even more.
PHI Recruitment
or PHIsh Tank in game
Youtube
|
Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
618
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 06:31:00 -
[29] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:I can counter it: Sprinting for 45 seconds is bloody pointless. Give the Amarr something useful Gallente : Uber Long ranged pasive radar + Complex profile dampener! (not to mention new innate 3 armor PER Sec repair! Caldari: Uber precise Radar capabilities + Complex Profile dampener! Minmatar: Uber leet Cx Codebreaker + 3 Cx Damage mosd worth in Nova Knife damage! Amarr: Runs more... equivalent to less than a MLT cardiac reg. Something is off....
Caldari don't get dampners. They get radar radius and precision. |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2053
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 06:31:00 -
[30] - Quote
How long could a Proto Amarr scout run with a complex reg+100 percent boost from the optimal skill?
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |