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IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 533	Posted - 2014.01.21 06:35:00 - [31] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: alright, counter argument against 20%, sure I'll bite. The cardiac regulator is one of the very few modules where once you equip one you hardly feel the need to ever equip another. Giving the Amarr the 20% Bonus, in order to equate to a complex, would be the equivalent of giving the Gal or Cal a 500% bonus to scan radius (which would be necessary to get them up to around 80m scan radius), so that they would have no need to ever equip a range amp. I could support a 10% bonus but not a 20%. Explain your reasoning a bit more? Particularly how it relates to the stats I posted comparing the results of the Amarr stamina bonus compared to other scouts using a single complex cardiac regulator, and how it is fair to make that comparison. Not trying to be a jerk, I am very open to hearing what you have to say, however I'd like a little more detail and logic (esepcially behind how you got that 500% number) so I can better understand your point of view. I think he means if you no longer "need" to equip a green. Basically u would have infinite stamina, it would be a bit op. To compare, a gal with 25% more range would be 20+5. Which isn't all that far. So equipping another range amp would be useful. Minmitar having 25% more hack speed is only 2 less seconds. But putting on a code breaker makes it 7 less. With the 20% boost you would never "need" to have more stamina. Which means slightly op. PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Youtube
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 618	Posted - 2014.01.21 06:35:00 - [32] - Quote Also, to contribute to the thread: I have level 1 cardiac just for the basic module (me no likey militia) and let me tell you: from nothing to basic, it feels like you can run forever and your stamina regains super fast. I don't know why anyone would use anything above basic unless they want to hack the point closest to the enemy's MCC...
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5701	Posted - 2014.01.21 06:35:00 - [33] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Aero please include an example of your math so we understand how you determined the numbers. Not being a troll, honest. Amarr Scout Base Stamina: 225 20% per level = 100% bonus at level 5 225 x 2 = 450 = 45 seconds Now for the complex cardiac regulators, they are 100% bonuses as well but also the skill is 2% efficacy per level, so once you can buy complex regulators they are actually 110%. This is fair to include in the calculations since the Amarr scout wouldn't be able to take advantage of this skill. Gallente Scout Base Stamina: 200 110% bonus 200 * 2.1 = 420 = 42 seconds Caldari Scout Base Stamina: 200 110% bonus 200 * 2.1 = 420 = 42 seconds Minmatar Scout Base Stamina: 210 110% bonus 210 * 2.1 = 441 = 44.1 seconds Thanks. I'll do some digging tomorrow. Bit I'm curious what effects the regen and speed have on the overall picture. So might be best to determine how far they go in a given timeframe. Or perhaps a m/s compare. I don't know how to do that without some digging. But perhaps someone with l33t math skills can do it. Might end up proving your point even more. As far as stamina recovery goes, using the same math, the results would be Amarr: 80 Gallente: 63 Caldari: 63 Minmatar: 73.5 Thus, if you divide the stamina by the stamina recovery you will get how long it would take to fully recharge this stamina, Amarr: 5.625 seconds Gallente: 6.666 seconds Caldari: 6.666 seconds Minmatar: 6.000 seconds Which is all pretty much in line, again. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 533	Posted - 2014.01.21 06:35:00 - [34] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: How long could a Proto Amarr scout run with a complex reg+100 percent boost from the optimal skill? AK 1443 Meters MK 1057 Meters GK 1065 Meters CK 780 Meters PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Youtube
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5701	Posted - 2014.01.21 06:36:00 - [35] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Also, to contribute to the thread: I have level 1 cardiac just for the basic module (me no likey militia) and let me tell you: from nothing to basic, it feels like you can run forever and your stamina regains super fast. I don't know why anyone would use anything above basic unless they want to hack the point closest to the enemy's MCC... This personal anecdote does not address the argument presented in the original post of this thread. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 996	Posted - 2014.01.21 06:40:00 - [36] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: alright, counter argument against 20%, sure I'll bite. The cardiac regulator is one of the very few modules where once you equip one you hardly feel the need to ever equip another. Giving the Amarr the 20% Bonus, in order to equate to a complex, would be the equivalent of giving the Gal or Cal a 500% bonus to scan radius (which would be necessary to get them up to around 80m scan radius), so that they would have no need to ever equip a range amp. I could support a 10% bonus but not a 20%. Explain your reasoning a bit more? Particularly how it relates to the stats I posted comparing the results of the Amarr stamina bonus compared to other scouts using a single complex cardiac regulator, and how it is fair to make that comparison. Not trying to be a jerk, I am very open to hearing what you have to say, however I'd like a little more detail and logic (esepcially behind how you got that 500% number) so I can better understand your point of view. First the 500% number would be total bonus so 100%/Lv. Actually I think the number would be more like 400%. I was thinking the current base stat (16m) instead of the 1.8 base stat (20m). So 80m/Lv. My reasoning is quite simple. I am quite satisfied with my current scan radius of 73m (will be 76 in 1.8 if I remember the numbers right). In order to achieve that scan radius, it requires me to equip two complex range amps. Hence the utility of these respective modules is not equal, because noone ever has need/desire to equip two card regs. {:)}{3GÇó>
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5702	Posted - 2014.01.21 06:42:00 - [37] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: alright, counter argument against 20%, sure I'll bite. The cardiac regulator is one of the very few modules where once you equip one you hardly feel the need to ever equip another. Giving the Amarr the 20% Bonus, in order to equate to a complex, would be the equivalent of giving the Gal or Cal a 500% bonus to scan radius (which would be necessary to get them up to around 80m scan radius), so that they would have no need to ever equip a range amp. I could support a 10% bonus but not a 20%. Explain your reasoning a bit more? Particularly how it relates to the stats I posted comparing the results of the Amarr stamina bonus compared to other scouts using a single complex cardiac regulator, and how it is fair to make that comparison. Not trying to be a jerk, I am very open to hearing what you have to say, however I'd like a little more detail and logic (esepcially behind how you got that 500% number) so I can better understand your point of view. I think he means if you no longer "need" to equip a green. Basically u would have infinite stamina, it would be a bit op. To compare, a gal with 25% more range would be 20+5. Which isn't all that far. So equipping another range amp would be useful. Minmitar having 25% more hack speed is only 2 less seconds. But putting on a code breaker makes it 7 less. With the 20% boost you would never "need" to have more stamina. Which means slightly op. One thing to correct you on is the complex mod for Gal we are comparing this to is profile dampening, not the 25% more range which is only a standard range amp. And to address that concern, let's take the Gallente scout for example since it perfectly mirrors the Amarr scout's slot layout and is good for comparison. So the Amarr scout doesn't need to equip a green anymore because it pretty much has infinite stamina, so that saves it one low slot, leaving it with all 4 left. Meanwhile a Gallente scout would have to use up one low slot to have this infinite stamina, leaving it with 3 lows left. But now, say the Gallente wants to avoid Gal Logi scanners, it would only have to put in one complex profile dampener since it already has one built in, leaving it with 2 low slots left. For the Amarr to do the same thing, it would need to apply two complex profile dampeners, leaving it with 2 low slots left. They are now at the same spot. Hope that makes sense. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Marad''er Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 463	Posted - 2014.01.21 06:43:00 - [38] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: alright, counter argument against 20%, sure I'll bite. The cardiac regulator is one of the very few modules where once you equip one you hardly feel the need to ever equip another. Giving the Amarr the 20% Bonus, in order to equate to a complex, would be the equivalent of giving the Gal or Cal a 500% bonus to scan radius (which would be necessary to get them up to around 80m scan radius), so that they would have no need to ever equip a range amp. I could support a 10% bonus but not a 20%. Explain your reasoning a bit more? Particularly how it relates to the stats I posted comparing the results of the Amarr stamina bonus compared to other scouts using a single complex cardiac regulator, and how it is fair to make that comparison. Not trying to be a jerk, I am very open to hearing what you have to say, however I'd like a little more detail and logic (esepcially behind how you got that 500% number) so I can better understand your point of view. I think he means if you no longer "need" to equip a green. Basically u would have infinite stamina, it would be a bit op. To compare, a gal with 25% more range would be 20+5. Which isn't all that far. So equipping another range amp would be useful. Minmitar having 25% more hack speed is only 2 less seconds. But putting on a code breaker makes it 7 less. With the 20% boost you would never "need" to have more stamina. Which means slightly op. Hmm.. I see your point. This is exactly why I would personally settle on 10% per level. Not sure about other amarr scouts though. GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 4 \| pâÅpéñpâápü»tºüpü«µëôµÆâpéÆF¦ápüúpüªpüäpéï \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5702	Posted - 2014.01.21 06:44:00 - [39] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: How long could a Proto Amarr scout run with a complex reg+100 percent boost from the optimal skill? That's with lows filled with complex regs. With current stats(5%) AK 1443 Meters MK 1057 Meters GK 1065 Meters CK 780 Meters This argument in particular I find holds little value because, as you already stated there would be no reason for an Amarr scout to fit a cardiac regulator, let alone 4, and likewise any other race to equip more than 1. And in that case, we are back to the values presented in the first post. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1689	Posted - 2014.01.21 06:48:00 - [40] - Quote Marad''er wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: alright, counter argument against 20%, sure I'll bite. The cardiac regulator is one of the very few modules where once you equip one you hardly feel the need to ever equip another. Giving the Amarr the 20% Bonus, in order to equate to a complex, would be the equivalent of giving the Gal or Cal a 500% bonus to scan radius (which would be necessary to get them up to around 80m scan radius), so that they would have no need to ever equip a range amp. I could support a 10% bonus but not a 20%. Explain your reasoning a bit more? Particularly how it relates to the stats I posted comparing the results of the Amarr stamina bonus compared to other scouts using a single complex cardiac regulator, and how it is fair to make that comparison. Not trying to be a jerk, I am very open to hearing what you have to say, however I'd like a little more detail and logic (esepcially behind how you got that 500% number) so I can better understand your point of view. I think he means if you no longer "need" to equip a green. Basically u would have infinite stamina, it would be a bit op. To compare, a gal with 25% more range would be 20+5. Which isn't all that far. So equipping another range amp would be useful. Minmitar having 25% more hack speed is only 2 less seconds. But putting on a code breaker makes it 7 less. With the 20% boost you would never "need" to have more stamina. Which means slightly op. Hmm.. I see your point. This is exactly why I would personally settle on 10% per level. Not sure about other amarr scouts though. I'd be happy with that but if that's it any other scout is still more desirable "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein

Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5702	Posted - 2014.01.21 06:52:00 - [41] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Marad''er wrote: Hmm.. I see your point. This is exactly why I would personally settle on 10% per level. Not sure about other amarr scouts though. I'd be happy with that but if that's it any other scout is still more desirable At the very least, we are making progress in getting our point of view across in a way that doesn't come off as whining, QQing, or plain Amarr bias. If anything, I just want people to see that we are being rational. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2053	Posted - 2014.01.21 06:56:00 - [42] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: How long could a Proto Amarr scout run with a complex reg+100 percent boost from the optimal skill? That's with lows filled with complex regs. With current stats(5%) AK 1443 Meters MK 1057 Meters GK 1065 Meters CK 780 Meters This argument in particular I find holds little value because, as you already stated there would be no reason for an Amarr scout to fit a cardiac regulator, let alone 4, and likewise any other race to equip more than 1. And in that case, we are back to the values presented in the first post. I'm trying to figure out what the Amarr scouts stamina would be with current proposed bonus and what the stamina would be with your bonus. Im tired and my brain isn't that good to begin with. I'm trying to figure out...stuff "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 996	Posted - 2014.01.21 06:56:00 - [43] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: One thing to correct you on is the complex mod for Gal we are comparing this to is profile dampening, not the 25% more range which is only a standard range amp. Dampen era would be even worse. You would need to get my Gal scout below 10.6 dB, in order to beat ALL scanners. I don't feel like doing the math on this, but I can tell you, it is a lot. {:)}{3GÇó>
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5702	Posted - 2014.01.21 06:58:00 - [44] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: One thing to correct you on is the complex mod for Gal we are comparing this to is profile dampening, not the 25% more range which is only a standard range amp. Dampen era would be even worse. You would need to get my Gal scout below 10.6 dB, in order to beat ALL scanners. I don't feel like doing the math on this, but I can tell you, it is a lot. But whatever it is, the Gal scout would require one less low slot to achieve it than the Amarr scout (using this comparison because they have the same slot layout). So freeing up that one extra low slot is then equivalent to the Amarr scout not needing to apply a green and freeing up one low slot. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Marad''er Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 466	Posted - 2014.01.21 07:00:00 - [45] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: How long could a Proto Amarr scout run with a complex reg+100 percent boost from the optimal skill? That's with lows filled with complex regs. With current stats(5%) AK 1443 Meters MK 1057 Meters GK 1065 Meters CK 780 Meters This argument in particular I find holds little value because, as you already stated there would be no reason for an Amarr scout to fit a cardiac regulator, let alone 4, and likewise any other race to equip more than 1. And in that case, we are back to the values presented in the first post. I'm trying to figure out what the Amarr scouts stamina would be with current proposed bonus and what the stamina would be with your bonus. Im tired and my brain isn't that good to begin with. I'm trying to figure out...stuff Base stamina? 5% per level = 281.25 stamina base. + 1 Complx cardiac = 562.5 20% per level = 450 stamina base. + 1 Complx cardiac = 900 GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 4 \| pâÅpéñpâápü»tºüpü«µëôµÆâpéÆF¦ápüúpüªpüäpéï \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5703	Posted - 2014.01.21 07:03:00 - [46] - Quote Marad''er wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: How long could a Proto Amarr scout run with a complex reg+100 percent boost from the optimal skill? That's with lows filled with complex regs. With current stats(5%) AK 1443 Meters MK 1057 Meters GK 1065 Meters CK 780 Meters This argument in particular I find holds little value because, as you already stated there would be no reason for an Amarr scout to fit a cardiac regulator, let alone 4, and likewise any other race to equip more than 1. And in that case, we are back to the values presented in the first post. I'm trying to figure out what the Amarr scouts stamina would be with current proposed bonus and what the stamina would be with your bonus. Im tired and my brain isn't that good to begin with. I'm trying to figure out...stuff Base stamina? 5% per level = 281.25 stamina base. + 1 Complx cardiac = 562.5 20% per level = 450 stamina base. + 1 Complx cardiac = 900 But the whole point is the bonus saves you a low slot, so if you want to use that latter comparison then you need to compare it to every other scout using two complex cardiac regulators. Honestly I don't see why anyone would do that, but still. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 997	Posted - 2014.01.21 07:05:00 - [47] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: One thing to correct you on is the complex mod for Gal we are comparing this to is profile dampening, not the 25% more range which is only a standard range amp. Dampen era would be even worse. You would need to get my Gal scout below 10.6 dB, in order to beat ALL scanners. I don't feel like doing the math on this, but I can tell you, it is a lot. But whatever it is, the Gal scout would require one less low slot to achieve it than the Amarr scout (using this comparison because they have the same slot layout). So freeing up that one extra low slot is then equivalent to the Amarr scout not needing to apply a green and freeing up one low slot. I see wher you are coming from. I just think that ten % and something else small would be a better idea. Personally, I think a small bonus to clock field active time or clock cost to activate would be cool. {:)}{3GÇó>
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5703	Posted - 2014.01.21 07:08:00 - [48] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: One thing to correct you on is the complex mod for Gal we are comparing this to is profile dampening, not the 25% more range which is only a standard range amp. Dampen era would be even worse. You would need to get my Gal scout below 10.6 dB, in order to beat ALL scanners. I don't feel like doing the math on this, but I can tell you, it is a lot. But whatever it is, the Gal scout would require one less low slot to achieve it than the Amarr scout (using this comparison because they have the same slot layout). So freeing up that one extra low slot is then equivalent to the Amarr scout not needing to apply a green and freeing up one low slot. I see wher you are coming from. I just think that ten % and something else small would be a better idea. Personally, I think a small bonus to clock field active time or clock cost to activate would be cool. I would definitely be ok with 10% and something else small. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 621	Posted - 2014.01.21 07:09:00 - [49] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Over the several threads and posts regarding the Amarr scout bonus, no one has yet to attempt to counter this argument right here: If the Amarr scout's bonus was 20% per level, it would have 45 seconds of sprint at level 5. If a Gallente scout equipped a complex cardiac regulator, it would have 42 seconds of sprint. If a Caldari scout equipped a complex cardiac regulator, it would have 42 seconds of sprint. If a Minmatar scout equipped a complex cardiac regulator, it would have 44.1 seconds of sprint. All of these are comparable values, plus they are also faster than the Amarr so would travel further in the slightly shorter time frame. Scout ak0: 236m before stamina is exhausted Scout gk0: 228m Scout ck0: 228m Scout mk0: 249m so yeah. "Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)" GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 121	Posted - 2014.01.21 07:09:00 - [50] - Quote I notice in your math you for the a-scout you had the x2 multiplier for it while the others got a x2.1, why would you exclude the 10% efficiency skill bonus for c-regs on Amarr but add it to the others? If they are all using complex to get that x2, they would all get the bonus, just asking, as it confused me when I saw your example.

Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5705	Posted - 2014.01.21 07:14:00 - [51] - Quote Absoliav wrote: I notice in your math you for the a-scout you had the x2 multiplier for it while the others got a x2.1, why would you exclude the 10% efficiency skill bonus for c-regs on Amarr but add it to the others? If they are all using complex to get that x2, they would all get the bonus, just asking, as it confused me when I saw your example. Because the Amarr bonus would simply be 100% more (20% per level times 5 levels), while the other scouts would have to use a complex regulator, but in order to use complex regulators you need cardiac regulation to 5 which gives you the bonus of 10% more efficacy towards cardiac regulators. And since the Amarr scout wouldn't use a cardiac regulator module, as it already has practically infinite stamina an no need for one of these modules, it would not be able to take advantage of this efficacy bonus. And for further clarification, the Amarr saving one slot with the cardiac regulator is equivalent to Gallente saving a slot with profile dampening, Caldari saving a slot with scan precision, and Minmatar saving a slot with hack speed. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5705	Posted - 2014.01.21 07:16:00 - [52] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Over the several threads and posts regarding the Amarr scout bonus, no one has yet to attempt to counter this argument right here: If the Amarr scout's bonus was 20% per level, it would have 45 seconds of sprint at level 5. If a Gallente scout equipped a complex cardiac regulator, it would have 42 seconds of sprint. If a Caldari scout equipped a complex cardiac regulator, it would have 42 seconds of sprint. If a Minmatar scout equipped a complex cardiac regulator, it would have 44.1 seconds of sprint. All of these are comparable values, plus they are also faster than the Amarr so would travel further in the slightly shorter time frame. Scout ak0: 236m before stamina is exhausted Scout gk0: 228m Scout ck0: 228m Scout mk0: 249m so yeah. And of course the Amarr would take 3 seconds longer to do this than the Caldari and Gallente (45 seconds to exhaust sprint opposed to 42) and 0.9 seconds longer than Minmatar, while traveling less distance noneless. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Scout Registry Nos Nothi 894	Posted - 2014.01.21 07:21:00 - [53] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: So, anyone want to take a crack at countering this? This run-in-a-straight-line thought experiment fails to speak to the combat value of Stamina Regen. I assume you are tankier than other Scouts because you're intended to perform more combat functions. So to a hit-and-run, up-armored, Combat Scout ... What is more important, Stamina Regen or Stamina Pool? If you wanted to "win the distance race" ... why not pile KinCats and CardRegs onto a non-up-armored Scout? Or take a Vehicle? Scouts were replaced as "first to letter on foot" long ago. The vehicle will always win. You guys are downplaying the significant combat value of Stamina Regen. I defer to Marauder on this topic; I believe he has said the bonus should be +10% rather than +5% per level.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 997	Posted - 2014.01.21 07:23:00 - [54] - Quote Actually skilling card regs to Lv 5, in order to use the complex regs (which the a-scout would never have to do with a 20% bonus) it is a quite large SP sink that would only affect the other races. This is another reason for a 10% argument. {:)}{3GÇó>
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 121	Posted - 2014.01.21 07:23:00 - [55] - Quote Looking at the a-scout's stats, it looks to me that is is going to be the most durable of the scouts and judging from it's race bonus and slot layout, it's leaning more towards a battle scout making it the hardest scout to put down if you put a complex damp, reg, ferroscales, and a reper, I don't really see the issue hear, yeah it won't be as stealthy as the others, or as fast, but that doesn't really mean much if the other scouts die from just looking at them.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 619	Posted - 2014.01.21 07:25:00 - [56] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Joel II X wrote: Also, to contribute to the thread: I have level 1 cardiac just for the basic module (me no likey militia) and let me tell you: from nothing to basic, it feels like you can run forever and your stamina regains super fast. I don't know why anyone would use anything above basic unless they want to hack the point closest to the enemy's MCC... This personal anecdote does not address the argument presented in the original post of this thread. From what I understood, you wanted to know why every other scout has complex level mods to their suits at level 5 when the Amarr, doesn't. Is that right? If so, then I told you why from my opinion. It already feels like you can run forever with the basic module. With a free complex one, you could run even further, and possibly faster. That wouldn't give the time for anyone to catch up. Not only that, but your stamina would regenerate faster than I could blink. In my opinion, if the bonus was to get a boost, it shouldn't be a lot.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5705	Posted - 2014.01.21 07:26:00 - [57] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: So, anyone want to take a crack at countering this? This run-in-a-straight-line thought experiment fails to speak to the combat value of Stamina Regen. I assume you are tankier than other Scouts because you're intended to perform more combat functions. So to a hit-and-run, up-armored, Combat Scout ... What is more important, Stamina Regen or Stamina Pool? If you wanted to "win the distance race" ... why not pile KinCats and CardRegs onto a non-up-armored Scout? Better yet, if you want to "win the distance race", why not just take a Vehicle? You guys are downplaying the significant combat value of Stamina Regen. I defer to Marauder on this topic; I believe he has said the bonus should be +10% rather than +5% per level. This isn't a "run-in-a-straight-line" experiment, I listed the total stamina of all races. Also a few posts ago I did the math for stamina regen for all races. They are all in line with each other, giving them the the same combat value of the stamina as well. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3271	Posted - 2014.01.21 07:26:00 - [58] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: And yes, it would be fair that these suits would have to equip a module to achieve comparable performance because likewise, the Amarr scout would have to equip a complex profile dampner, a complex precision enhancer, or complex codebreaker to achieve comparable performance to the other scouts in these respective areas. This is wrong, though not in the way you'd think. Can an Amarr Scout equip 1 complex profile dampener to equal that bonus? Yes. Can an Amarr Scout equip 1 complex precision enhancer to equal that bonus? NO A complex precision enhancer only imparts a 20% bonus, you'd need more than that. Can an Amarr Scout equip 1 complex codebreaker to equal that bonus? NO A complex codebreaker imparts 25%, but the Minmatar suit in particular has a 5% inherent suit hacking bonus over the other races. A single complex codebreaker wouldn't match this. That's aside from a secondary bonus, etc. to match the other bonuses. But I think this bears repeating, since a complex precision enhancer or codebreaker isn't actually enough just to match their -single- bonus, while a Basic Cardiac Regulator surpasses the Amarr's current bonus. Join my cult.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5705	Posted - 2014.01.21 07:27:00 - [59] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Joel II X wrote: Also, to contribute to the thread: I have level 1 cardiac just for the basic module (me no likey militia) and let me tell you: from nothing to basic, it feels like you can run forever and your stamina regains super fast. I don't know why anyone would use anything above basic unless they want to hack the point closest to the enemy's MCC... This personal anecdote does not address the argument presented in the original post of this thread. From what I understood, you wanted to know why every other scout has complex level mods to their suits at level 5 when the Amarr, doesn't. Is that right? If so, then I told you why from my opinion. It already feels like you can run forever with the basic module. With a free complex one, you could run even further, and possibly faster. That wouldn't give the time for anyone to catch up. Not only that, but your stamina would regenerate faster than I could blink. In my opinion, if the bonus was to get a boost, it shouldn't be a lot. But then look at how that compared to other scouts using a complex cardiac regulator with the freed up slot they gain from their respective bonuses, that is what I'm saying. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5705	Posted - 2014.01.21 07:28:00 - [60] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Actually skilling card regs to Lv 5, in order to use the complex regs (which the a-scout would never have to do with a 20% bonus) it is a quite large SP sink that would only affect the other races. This is another reason for a 10% argument. This is perhaps the best counter argument I heard and I do not have anything to go against this at this time. So I am inclined to agree with Son-Of A-Gun here, a 10% per level bonus as well as a small secondary bonus would be a better approach. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open



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