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Honestly, this pub stomping has got to stop already...

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8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 727	Posted - 2013.11.17 05:50:00 - [1] - Quote I don't mind it, because I can always use my own Protogear, or just switch to a starter fit. I only play pubs when I feel like playing not so seriously, and to grind some ISK. But going against an ENTIRE(all16) team of Prototype is ridiculous. The protostompers need to just knock it off, you're getting nowhere by doing it and you are hurting the game by being selfish aholes. Seriously, what's the point of doing it? I seriously look at what's going on and have nothing but personal disdain for this pathetic behavior. Who is impressed with stomping noobs in Starter fits? Do you actually try to pretend you're good when doing it? Is it some sort of accomplishment in your world? Pubstomping is wrong, 100%. It will only drive the playerbase even lower, than these guys will have to go back to games with more players on it and be the loser they were there all over again. And to CCP. This is 100% YOUR FAULT**. How can a match making system be this one-sided? Has anyone been in a match in a pub that actually was even remotely close? How are people who have less than 50 days play time being put on one team, and stacked squads of players who have over a year's play time being put all on the other side? game, after game, after game, after game... I understand that CCP thought it was a good idea to make a game that was purposely unbalanced and unfair, but like most of everything they have done with DUST 514, they never thought it through. CCP, you know why you can't keep players on this game. How long is this joke of an experiment going to last? How is it that you can even afford to build this game with <5,000 people playing this game WORLDWIDE on any given day? You know the answer, so why haven't you corrected it? How hard is it to make a match making system that balances out squads and time played in game? Having a low playerbase is not an reason either, that is an excuse.
EternalRMG KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 593	Posted - 2013.11.17 05:53:00 - [2] - Quote Stoping Protostomping... How didnt anyone come up with such idea "Fight Togheter; Win Together" Duster Since: July 2012 Best DropShip Pilot; Soon To be best Jet Fighter Pilot
Meeko Fent Commando Perkone Caldari State 1551	Posted - 2013.11.17 05:55:00 - [3] - Quote THIS is really the one thing preventing DUST from growing. Either squadless mode, or mode to lock a tech tier. ******* DO IT NOW GAWD DAMMIT For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy Replication Warrior
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 89	Posted - 2013.11.17 05:56:00 - [4] - Quote EternalRMG wrote: Stoping Protostomping... How didnt anyone come up with such idea a stop bullying video
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 1299	Posted - 2013.11.17 05:58:00 - [5] - Quote Maybe Kain Spero could bring the community's views on this to CCP - oh wait nevermind, I forgot I saw him qsynced in FW match with TP and AE protostomping the 10 New Players on my team. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
HyperionsThunder Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 130	Posted - 2013.11.17 05:59:00 - [6] - Quote So having just experienced the problem to a huge degree, I must say it has got to be incredibly frustrating. I just started a pub match, and instantly (and I'm serious, IT WAS INSTANTLY) died every time I spawned. I'm running an ADV gallente logi, stacked armor mods and some (undisclosed) proto gear. Nevertheless, I died as soon as I spawned, using the smart spawn option (not just spawning in to some dumb drop uplink in a bad position). This creates several significant problems. It was frustrating, and that isn't the point. If I wasn't running the gear I was, I might not have gone 1 and 4, so if I was a new player, this would have been impossible. Instantly spawning and dying isn't worth the time of any gamer. If you aren't spawned in to the beginning of a match, you could find yourself on the end of a Duvolle, and that is the big problem. In order for this game to last, there has to be some distinction, so an entire team can hold off a squad of vets. I'm don't mean to say, "WE NEED TO STOP THE PROTOSTOMPING WTF I HATE DYING," I mean to say that the long term vision of this game is hurt by the fact that new players are turned away by matches like mine... Common sense will prevail. Adapt or die.
straya fox Sad Panda Solutions 81	Posted - 2013.11.17 06:01:00 - [7] - Quote IMO what we need is a no squad pub match. Everyone enters solo. Proto players are vulnerable when not supported by an organised squad with good communication. Team work and organisation + top end gear is what is hurting pub matches. Just make a pub match that people can enter without fear of running into PC corps doing training runs or whatever. Sure you will get solo awesome warriors, but they will not be able to completely dominate the match on their own.
Meeko Fent Commando Perkone Caldari State 1552	Posted - 2013.11.17 06:06:00 - [8] - Quote @Hyperions, one is that Smart Deploy is *******, but other then that, spot on. Seriously, most console gamers won't turn down a free game if it's halfway decent, but they want to play against those of similar skill level and gear. DUST fucks that one thing up, reason that this game isn't pretty big now. NPE is the worst I've seen. Hell, I'm not a new player and I still get ground to paste by ROFLstomps. For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy* Replication Warrior
Doc Noah Algintal Core Gallente Federation 855	Posted - 2013.11.17 06:13:00 - [9] - Quote I'm all for squadless mode and tier locked matches, just sayin' CCP.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 1300	Posted - 2013.11.17 06:17:00 - [10] - Quote straya fox wrote: Just make a pub match that people can enter without fear of running into PC corps doing training runs or whatever. You know, I could see that as a viable excuse IF completely unorganized teams of players fresh from academy could ever realistically be considered remotely close to being "decent" competition for Fully organized teams of PC Protobears. Seriously, lets just call it what it is. These jerks are afraid to ever lose their place at the top, so the secure it by extinguishing any flame of hope that might burn within the heart of the new Player. They are so hellbent on keeping their stats on top of the leaderboards, that they would jeapordize the future of the game. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*

Foxbat 071 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 15	Posted - 2013.11.17 06:21:00 - [11] - Quote I don't think it's so much prototype gear making the matches one-sided, its the fact that it always seems like squads are always put on the same side. Almost every time I run solo, my team is all randoms, and the enemy team has 1-2 squads. Whenever I run in a squad, we usually have another squad against all randoms. I RARELY get to play squad vs squad matches, which are 100x more fun than stomping/getting stomped. It doesn't matter if you're running standard or proto, 1-2 squads vs all randoms will be a stomp every time. *BLAP* ( X ) Call For Help ( O ) Respawn
straya fox Sad Panda Solutions 82	Posted - 2013.11.17 06:24:00 - [12] - Quote I don't believe in locking equipment tiers, this is New Eden. But it's not just fresh from academy guys that deal with this. I truly believe a sqadless mode will bring a lot more balance to all involved. One of the big problems i see is that amount of ISK farming in PC corps. Having an unlimited supply of ISK only enables players to run pro to 24/7. A lot of guys from no name corps with no foothold in PC can run proto gear but the ISK requirements are to much unless involved in a PC farm.
Spectre-M The Generals EoN. 108	Posted - 2013.11.17 06:36:00 - [13] - Quote Squadless modes are not the answer in a team based game. If you wanna be a Rambo, go play something that is built on that playstyle. We need the academy to be more robust. Lock skill point usage until a complete tutorial has been completed and "all MLT matches" have been played with free access to any weapons/suits they want to try. That way we won't have clueless new players wondering why they aren't lasting longer than 2 seconds. We also won't have pros making alts to stomp in academy as well. The match maker should form automatic squads and explain why and what the benefits of a squad are, because it's not obvious to everyone ( as if any one in RL would run out into in warfare alone without backup and communication). Gear explanations on tiers, damage profiles for weapons in game, general user interface instruction. Public matches should be restricted to advanced gear, fw and pc is where proto belongs. Vets complain about a failing game and then treat pubs like a sorority hazing. Make up your minds. Even some of my corpmates protstomp thier own recruits in bounty events we run. Pathetic. Loose the crutches and put your money where your mouth is. Give new players a fighting chance so we can grow this game. It's gotten so bad, people want a new game mode so they can distance themselves from the rest of the community. If this game fails, vets are as much to blame as CCP and their HTFU policy. /entitled juxtaposition
Silas Swakhammer GamersForChrist Orion Empire 259	Posted - 2013.11.17 06:40:00 - [14] - Quote Meh. Check to see if you're going up against a corp. If you see that's the case and don't wanna test your luck/skills, bail on the match. If you're gonna stay, run free suits. It's usually easy to see early on in a match if your team is gonna be outskilled and/or outgeared. During pretty nasty red-lining I like to call in a LLAV and drive around, taking out enemy vehicles if available, or just harassing enemy infantry. It's always amused me to see people run into an issue and keep banging their head into it instead of working a way around it. Pineapples on pizza.
Mr Machine Guns Nyain San Proficiency V. 141	Posted - 2013.11.17 06:41:00 - [15] - Quote if dust had more players they would make academy last longer, smart deploy in ambush is garbage, just try to avoid ambush of you hate proto stomping because that is where you will most likely find them play FW
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 1301	Posted - 2013.11.17 06:42:00 - [16] - Quote straya fox wrote: I don't believe in locking equipment tiers, this is New Eden. But it's not just fresh from academy guys that deal with this. I truly believe a sqadless mode will bring a lot more balance to all involved. One of the big problems i see is that amount of ISK farming in PC corps. Having an unlimited supply of ISK only enables players to run pro to 24/7. A lot of guys from no name corps with no foothold in PC can run proto gear but the ISK requirements are to much unless involved in a PC farm. I wouldn't mind seeing options for Gear locked and Non Gear Locked Matches: Hisec MLT/STD Lowsec MLT/STD/ADV Nullsec MLT/STD/ADV/PRO With further subcategories of Lonewolf or Squad Based. This would give players the benefit of being able to play at a more comfortable level, while still providing a challenge to them based on the advanteges Passive skills and Squad Play give I've been saying DUST needs this since I started and repeatedly got Protostomped back in Late Feb early March everyone said it wouldn't work, I just need to HTFU, there aren't enough players blah blah blah. Here it is 8 months later and how many Protostomp complaint threads have we seen since Uprising 1.0? Yes, it is way too easy to use PC to simply farm ISK, then Protostomp the Newer Corps to make damn sure they can never afford enough clone packs to gain a foothold on a District. Even though this is New Eden, it is not EVE. In EVE, players can stay in Hisec, and only be legally attacked under declaration of war. Outside of this, Concord will quite quickly blow the offending ship to bits. Considering this, it is obvious that New Players in EVE have much more of a blanket of protection than the New Player in DUST 514. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 731	Posted - 2013.11.17 06:46:00 - [17] - Quote No, by all means, please keep protostomping. I've got money riding on this game going kaputt by the end of next year if not sooner and this is the main factor in making that happen. If the pen is mightier than the sword, in a duel I'll let you have the pen! -Steven Wright
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 1227	Posted - 2013.11.17 07:18:00 - [18] - Quote pub stomping exists in the all mighty battlefield as well
IceShifter Childhaspawn DUST University Ivy League 395	Posted - 2013.11.17 07:22:00 - [19] - Quote A barrier is needed between the die-hards and the die-oftens. Call it what you will. Any barrier that cannot be gamed or cheated will bring in new players. All of this potential is wasted if you can not get people to log on for more than a week.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1108	Posted - 2013.11.17 07:42:00 - [20] - Quote Every time I see a stop the stomping thread I think about when I first joined in Chromosome.... And then without mercy continue to stomp the living hell out of those new berries with my proto LR & Scr. Why you not give the new guys a chance you ask? Because I went through the same sh!t.... I TOOOK MY BEATINGS LIKE A GOOD OL' BOY WHY CANT THEY!!!! WELCOME TO NEW EDEN "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein

Justice Prevails 92	Posted - 2013.11.17 07:48:00 - [21] - Quote Not a programmer, but I just don't get how they could mess up the matchmaking algorithm this bad. Skill level aside, two full corp squads on one side against randoms is ridiculous. Hate to say it, maybe they are trying to kill the game:-( Great job, team. Head back to the MCC for debriefing and cocktails.
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 728	Posted - 2013.11.17 07:50:00 - [22] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Every time I see a stop the stomping thread I think about when I first joined in Chromosome.... And then without mercy continue to stomp the living hell out of those new berries with my proto LR & Scr. Why you not give the new guys a chance you ask? Because I went through the same sh!t.... I TOOOK MY BEATINGS LIKE A GOOD OL' BOY WHY CANT THEY!!!! WELCOME TO NEW EDEN NO, you didn't. Everyone back then was able to progress parallel with everyone else, the number of Protostompers back then was less than 5%. And there was less content in the game in general. You stomp because you're a fcking ahole, plain and simple. Grow the *** up, sorry you can't be the macho alpha male you always fantasized about in the real world. Don't give me that "returning the favor" bullshit. You never had to go through what new players have to go through now. Not even close. Are wonder if you are one of those f*gs that made an alt, just to stomp the academy as well...
Justice Prevails 92	Posted - 2013.11.17 07:59:00 - [23] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Every time I see a stop the stomping thread I think about when I first joined in Chromosome.... And then without mercy continue to stomp the living hell out of those new berries with my proto LR & Scr. Why you not give the new guys a chance you ask? Because I went through the same sh!t.... I TOOOK MY BEATINGS LIKE A GOOD OL' BOY WHY CANT THEY!!!! WELCOME TO NEW EDEN I don't get it. Don't you even want a challenge? Doesn't stomping get boring? Great job, team. Head back to the MCC for debriefing and cocktails.
ovary obliterator Red Star. EoN. 32	Posted - 2013.11.17 08:42:00 - [24] - Quote i joined at the end of closed beta when everyone was running around all puffed up on sp and it was a pretty rude shock... but i took my lumps. im NOT endorsing protostomping for the record... just people that stick with it through the stompibg end up being better players... also it weeds out a lot of 14yr old codpieces. its way more fun to kill protos in a basic anyway
Karl Marx II Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 25	Posted - 2013.11.17 10:57:00 - [25] - Quote 8213 wrote: I don't mind it, because I can always use my own Protogear, or just switch to a starter fit. I only play pubs when I feel like playing not so seriously, and to grind some ISK. But going against an ENTIRE(all16) team of Prototype is ridiculous. The protostompers need to just knock it off, you're getting nowhere by doing it and you are hurting the game by being selfish aholes. Seriously, what's the point of doing it? I seriously look at what's going on and have nothing but personal disdain for this pathetic behavior. Who is impressed with stomping noobs in Starter fits? Do you actually try to pretend you're good when doing it? Is it some sort of accomplishment in your world? Pubstomping is wrong, 100%. It will only drive the playerbase even lower, than these guys will have to go back to games with more players on it and be the loser they were there all over again. And to CCP. This is 100% YOUR FAULT**. How can a match making system be this one-sided? Has anyone been in a match in a pub that actually was even remotely close? How are people who have less than 50 days play time being put on one team, and stacked squads of players who have over a year's play time being put all on the other side? game, after game, after game, after game... I understand that CCP thought it was a good idea to make a game that was purposely unbalanced and unfair, but like most of everything they have done with DUST 514, they never thought it through. CCP, you know why you can't keep players on this game. How long is this joke of an experiment going to last? How is it that you can even afford to build this game with <5,000 people playing this game WORLDWIDE on any given day? You know the answer, so why haven't you corrected it? How hard is it to make a match making system that balances out squads and time played in game? Having a low playerbase is not an reason either, that is an excuse. Join the AFK in the MCC in pubgames on Wednesday's protest or AFK Wednesdays for short .. Join the Revolution
Scheherazade VII 129	Posted - 2013.11.17 11:01:00 - [26] - Quote You just have to be the bigger tryhard. I now have 721 shield and 809 armour with a Duvolle. I won't be able to move very fast but come at me tryhards. GêÜGëêDUST VIDEOSGëêGêÜ
Karl Marx II Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 25	Posted - 2013.11.17 11:06:00 - [27] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Every time I see a stop the stomping thread I think about when I first joined in Chromosome.... And then without mercy continue to stomp the living hell out of those new berries with my proto LR & Scr. Why you not give the new guys a chance you ask? Because I went through the same sh!t.... I TOOOK MY BEATINGS LIKE A GOOD OL' BOY WHY CANT THEY!!!! WELCOME TO NEW EDEN Black people were once slaves, do you think their ancestors look at the black people of today and say 'I took my beatings and so should they' ? They did something about it so future generations wouldn't have to go through the same thing If something is wrong it doesn't matter if you went through it or not it doesn't justify putting others through it too You just sound bitter and rather than fixing the problem so others don't have to go through what you did you actually want them to have to go through it too ... Join the Revolution
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1325	Posted - 2013.11.17 11:07:00 - [28] - Quote When Blam took a dump on vehicles, he got tossed. Now, who was it again that's responsible for this senseless MM system, Scotty, and the obvious troll of renaming Auto Deploy to Smart Deploy? Somebody needs to start working on his r+¬sum+¬... Cheeseburgers.
Acturus Galaxy Happy Pumpkin 175	Posted - 2013.11.17 11:33:00 - [29] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: When Blam took a dump on vehicles, he got tossed. Now, who was it again that's responsible for this senseless MM system, Scotty, and the obvious troll of renaming Auto Deploy to Smart Deploy? Somebody needs to start working on his r+¬sum+¬... I do not think matchmaking will work acceptable until we have a bigger player base. Take me for example, I have been here since January, have access to proto equipment and some tanks. I most often run in standard gear but sometimes bring out the proto equipment and vehicles. How can the matchmaker predict how I am going to play? It might weight me high and I decided to only run in standard stuff or it might take me for little value and I decided to test out new proto equipment. The same happens with the rest of the 16 team members. Maybe when we have 32 players on each side the probabilities and margin of errors from the matchmaking will improve with the bigger team and we might more often end up with fairly equal teams on each side. That is if there is enough players to choose from. The other problem with the small player base is that players are moved to other region servers without them being aware of this. They usually run in proto and are weighted high by the matchmaker but perform terrible due to lagging. I see no other solution than making fixed rules to equipment until the player base have increased, ie only standard equipment to be used in pubs. There is a chance the updates to factionwar will decrease the problem. You will no longer make isk and need to run pubs with cheap builds to regain the isk lost in FW matches. Just hope the reward in FW will be high enough to lure in all vet players to spend their isk in FW matches instead of pub matches.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1110	Posted - 2013.11.17 14:06:00 - [30] - Quote 8213 wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Every time I see a stop the stomping thread I think about when I first joined in Chromosome.... And then without mercy continue to stomp the living hell out of those new berries with my proto LR & Scr. Why you not give the new guys a chance you ask? Because I went through the same sh!t.... I TOOOK MY BEATINGS LIKE A GOOD OL' BOY WHY CANT THEY!!!! WELCOME TO NEW EDEN NO, you didn't. Everyone back then was able to progress parallel with everyone else, the number of Protostompers back then was less than 5%. And there was less content in the game in general. You stomp because you're a fcking ahole, plain and simple. Grow the *** up, sorry you can't be the macho alpha male you always fantasized about in the real world. Don't give me that "returning the favor" bullshit. You never had to go through what new players have to go through now. Not even close. Are wonder if you are one of those fgs that made an alt, just to stomp the academy as well... Really now... Back then if you didnt have a Lr or an shield/speed tank caldari Ar suit you were ***. You know what your right I am an ahole in real life. Grow the **** up? Dude your telling this to a teenager. Dont need to be the macho alpha male I was always the recessive sneaky type of guy(I have a older brother whos 3x my size with ADHD and anger issues the only way I could get him back was by waiting and being sneaky). Last time I check a militia Ar couldn't even touch a proto suit back then. Nope I always got out in 1st battle or 3rd in the past. And my reasons for having an alt was to try tanking,dropship,sniping,shotgunning,uprising 1.0 didn't spend my skill points on the first day. "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein

Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1110	Posted - 2013.11.17 14:09:00 - [31] - Quote Karl Marx II wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Every time I see a stop the stomping thread I think about when I first joined in Chromosome.... And then without mercy continue to stomp the living hell out of those new berries with my proto LR & Scr. Why you not give the new guys a chance you ask? Because I went through the same sh!t.... I TOOOK MY BEATINGS LIKE A GOOD OL' BOY WHY CANT THEY!!!! WELCOME TO NEW EDEN Black people were once slaves, do you think their ancestors look at the black people of today and say 'I took my beatings and so should they' ? They did something about it so future generations wouldn't have to go through the same thing If something is wrong it doesn't matter if you went through it or not it doesn't justify putting others through it too You just sound bitter and rather than fixing the problem so others don't have to go through what you did you actually want them to have to go through it too ... Alright I'll give you that but then another question arises then. Why put an suit so powerful in game if its such a sin to use them? "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1110	Posted - 2013.11.17 14:11:00 - [32] - Quote Justice Prevails wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Every time I see a stop the stomping thread I think about when I first joined in Chromosome.... And then without mercy continue to stomp the living hell out of those new berries with my proto LR & Scr. Why you not give the new guys a chance you ask? Because I went through the same sh!t.... I TOOOK MY BEATINGS LIKE A GOOD OL' BOY WHY CANT THEY!!!! WELCOME TO NEW EDEN I don't get it. Don't you even want a challenge? Doesn't stomping get boring? I dont stomp all the time I'm to broke for that I usually run a Amarr logi with uplinks and a repair tool and a needle "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
Karl Marx II Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 29	Posted - 2013.11.17 14:28:00 - [33] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Karl Marx II wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Every time I see a stop the stomping thread I think about when I first joined in Chromosome.... And then without mercy continue to stomp the living hell out of those new berries with my proto LR & Scr. Why you not give the new guys a chance you ask? Because I went through the same sh!t.... I TOOOK MY BEATINGS LIKE A GOOD OL' BOY WHY CANT THEY!!!! WELCOME TO NEW EDEN Black people were once slaves, do you think their ancestors look at the black people of today and say 'I took my beatings and so should they' ? They did something about it so future generations wouldn't have to go through the same thing If something is wrong it doesn't matter if you went through it or not it doesn't justify putting others through it too You just sound bitter and rather than fixing the problem so others don't have to go through what you did you actually want them to have to go through it too ... Alright I'll give you that but then another question arises then. Why put an suit so powerful in game if its such a sin to use them? Proto gear was never intended to be able to be used so easily in public games it was always intended to be for certain situations where it was needed like in PC or FW ... alot of broken mechanics have led to it being as easy as it currently is to use in pubgames and it is this that is the problem ... The players doing it wont stop because they believe that just because they can and because CCP haven't done anything to stop means that it is fine .. I saw a great quote from someone .. 'I beat up my children and because the police haven't stopped me that means that it is fine for me to do it' therefore the only way to stop it is to make it so that they can't do it .. they have abused a broken mechanic for so long that it has led to a declining playerbase and is killing the game Join the Revolution
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 7666	Posted - 2013.11.17 14:30:00 - [34] - Quote The only reason I don't want pubstomping to stop is because then I'll have a harder time stroking my ego when I outperform a proto squad using nothing but BPO's all by my lonesome Story / Vids / OSG
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 329	Posted - 2013.11.17 14:33:00 - [35] - Quote Doc Noah wrote: I'm all for squadless mode and tier locked matches, just sayin' CCP. Just incase some people didn't see.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 7666	Posted - 2013.11.17 14:34:00 - [36] - Quote Scheherazade VII wrote: You just have to be the bigger tryhard. I now have 721 shield and 809 armour with a Duvolle. I won't be able to move very fast but come at me tryhards. Please for the love of God tell me you're a Heavy If not ::throws up hands and storms out of the room:: Story / Vids / OSG
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1110	Posted - 2013.11.17 14:35:00 - [37] - Quote Alright agreed I see your point. I shall regulate how many times I use my proto gear but then again I never was sitting on 100mill. "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
Ander Thedas Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 20	Posted - 2013.11.17 14:35:00 - [38] - Quote I feel like the best solution to this is in the matchmaking. Take each players total amount of games / total earned warpoints and you get a warpoint per game average. You then do the EXACT same thing for squads and use a multiplier to PER player to balance out their squad value to the team and use that to balance out teams. If you have a squad of pubstompers who make 1500 WP per game per player, then their value to matchmaking is at 9000 (and not a point over to quell any jokes) then they should not be able to join a match until a close to equal value is found on the enemy team. This way the proto-squads are forced to play against each other and the additional players in the game to pad out the numbers still have things to do in the battle. It might make matchmaking take longer for the top tier teams, but that's how the matchmaking of most games work with the highest percentage of players.
dmitri soroka The Generals EoN. 10	Posted - 2013.11.17 14:46:00 - [39] - Quote They need to do LESS isk earn for using proto, less Warpoint for proto, unless you kill proto with proto. If i use a noob sui and kill a proto i should get 4 times the amount of points and isk. Allow all types in game, bu reduce points earned for suits. This would make game way more fun, BCS you will be able to earn more ISK by killin atleast 1 PROTO, also if you wear PROTO suit and die, your war pints should also suffer. Just a thought, this would make it more interesting vs over power. Funny how a sister Game development logic is slow, even dough most idea taken from EVE ONLINE and they dumb to check what is what prior to balancing.... :) LOve noobish game developers, especially who use FRAME WORK and can not make it work :P
dmitri soroka The Generals EoN. 10	Posted - 2013.11.17 14:48:00 - [40] - Quote I do believe these developers do game changes based on where they rage at. SO with every update they can PWN people and be happy. LIke BOB back in a day in EVE ONLINE did. :)

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1078	Posted - 2013.11.17 14:59:00 - [41] - Quote straya fox wrote: I don't believe in locking equipment tiers, this is New Eden. But it's not just fresh from academy guys that deal with this. I truly believe a sqadless mode will bring a lot more balance to all involved. One of the big problems i see is that amount of ISK farming in PC corps. Having an unlimited supply of ISK only enables players to run pro to 24/7. A lot of guys from no name corps with no foothold in PC can run proto gear but the ISK requirements are to much unless involved in a PC farm. The "Welcome To New Eden" Philosophy is not an excuse to have a broken gameplay mechanic, or excluding one that isn't even there. Anyone who uses that ideology is either an idiot or a troll. Duvolles and Low TTK in this game are fine, along with Scouts, Heavies, and Commandos. This is New Eden. Doesn't make sense does it? Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
Mad Syringe ReDust Inc. 47	Posted - 2013.11.17 15:15:00 - [42] - Quote I proposed this before: Reward killing strong loadouts with weak loadouts with more SP. Meaning, if you kill a Proto with say a Basic suit, you should get 75 SP. If you kill a Basic with a Proto you only get 25 SP. If the suits are more or less matched, give 50SP. Vets would still have an advantage (due to passive skills), but the desire to run proto would be reduced. This would reward newer players (or veterans who run cheap) and it would give less incentive to run Proto all the time. Protos would still be the last resort for FW2.0 and PC, but in pub matches, everyone would more or less avoid it.
LudiKure ninda Black Phoenix Mercenaries 46	Posted - 2013.11.17 15:18:00 - [43] - Quote I turn on PS3 to go play dust,go in pub match,..6 rainow efect and 6 vacum corp guys with full proto,spawn 6 times,died 6 times...ok rage quit. Another pub match same guys,I got stomped in this match,rage quit again. Third match same **,..rage quit again. So after rage quiting every single match,I decide to pull out my thale against same guys,and snipe from the redline. Then I get mails: redline camping *,and so on.. And that is how it is for me every single ***** day for over 3 months..
Patrick57 GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 1509	Posted - 2013.11.17 15:54:00 - [44] - Quote I like using Proto gear, not because it makes me feel good (I've gone 49-4, 32-1, 25-2 with Advanced gear) at this game, but because I like the gear better. The Imperial is just so fun... ö/\ö :D
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 311	Posted - 2013.11.17 15:58:00 - [45] - Quote I've been watching the protostomp threads for a bit and I kinda have to ask... Isn't this simply a consistent hallmark of New Eden? It's certainly how things work in EVE from my understanding. My opinon is that for the ambush and skirmish modes there is an alternate option of "individual contract" and you can't synch in a sqd but once in the match you can join one. Consider this... Proto gear is far less dangerous to new players than an experienced squad fighting together in standard gear. If you've put in the time and effort to attain upper tier kit and have built friendships with other players (a major point of the game) why do we want to prevent people from using these things? Too be clear I'm not advocating protostomps, just asking a question.
axis alpha Red Star. EoN. 79	Posted - 2013.11.17 16:06:00 - [46] - Quote You all want to learn the hard way huh??? Let's wait till they make a protoless match making que and see what excuse you come up with next.... The best part of waking up, is whiskey in my cuuuuup!
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 551	Posted - 2013.11.17 16:09:00 - [47] - Quote In Dust you are either the hunter or the hunted. Hunters run proto The hunted cry. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Aria Gomes Death by Disassociation Zero-Day 122	Posted - 2013.11.17 16:11:00 - [48] - Quote This is why I play FW more. There's always squads on both sides. Well it's like most of the time. Sometimes I get proto stomped in FW but not as bad at pub matches. Plus FW is more fun as well as good competition.
George Moros Area 514 178	Posted - 2013.11.17 16:12:00 - [49] - Quote If the game would display ISK lost / ISK damage inflicted for a player after the battle, perhaps protostomping wouldn't seem too abusive for new players. Knowing that with that one single kill you managed to score against some proto-bear, you actually inflicted more ISK damage to him than you suffered by dying 10 times, would certainly alleviate some grief after the battle. Pulvereus ergo queritor.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1080	Posted - 2013.11.17 16:15:00 - [50] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: I like using Proto gear, not because it makes me feel good (I've gone 49-4, 32-1, 25-2 with Advanced gear) at this game, but because I like the gear better. The Imperial is just so fun... I like using PRO gear for the 4th equipment slot. I just wish I could afford to use it often Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND

Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz 211	Posted - 2013.11.17 16:18:00 - [51] - Quote HyperionsThunder wrote: So having just experienced the problem to a huge degree, I must say it has got to be incredibly frustrating. I just started a pub match, and instantly (and I'm serious, IT WAS INSTANTLY) died every time I spawned. I'm running an ADV gallente logi, stacked armor mods and some (undisclosed) proto gear. Nevertheless, I died as soon as I spawned, using the smart spawn option (not just spawning in to some dumb drop uplink in a bad position). This creates several significant problems. It was frustrating, and that isn't the point. If I wasn't running the gear I was, I might not have gone 1 and 4, so if I was a new player, this would have been impossible. Instantly spawning and dying isn't worth the time of any gamer. If you aren't spawned in to the beginning of a match, you could find yourself on the end of a Duvolle, and that is the big problem. In order for this game to last, there has to be some distinction, so an entire team can hold off a squad of vets. I'm don't mean to say, "WE NEED TO STOP THE PROTOSTOMPING WTF I HATE DYING," I mean to say that the long term vision of this game is hurt by the fact that new players are turned away by matches like mine... I started a new character recently and this is a huge problem. My poor toon gets slaughtered by proto bears in seconds. Ambush seems to be the worst. I've been trying to propose a Milita only game mode. But considering CCP hides some weapons from noobs behind aur for the purpose of making money (really this needs to stop, just make milita versions for all weapons.), it may not happen. Nuff Said
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz 211	Posted - 2013.11.17 16:20:00 - [52] - Quote Aria Gomes wrote: This is why I play FW more. There's always squads on both sides. Well it's like most of the time. Sometimes I get proto stomped in FW but not as bad at pub matches. Plus FW is more fun as well as good competition. Yeah, FW seems far more balanced. Matches tend to be LOONG though. Nuff Said
soulreaper73 PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 524	Posted - 2013.11.17 16:20:00 - [53] - Quote calisk galern wrote: pub stomping exists in the all mighty battlefield as well it exists in all games. the difference is that it has always seemed more common in dust than other games.
DeadlyAztec11 Gallente Federation 2614	Posted - 2013.11.17 16:36:00 - [54] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Every time I see a stop the stomping thread I think about when I first joined in Chromosome.... And then without mercy continue to stomp the living hell out of those new berries with my proto LR & Scr. Why you not give the new guys a chance you ask? Because I went through the same sh!t.... I TOOOK MY BEATINGS LIKE A GOOD OL' BOY WHY CANT THEY!!!! WELCOME TO NEW EDEN You act like Chromosome was difficult on nEwing players, as if. I never had to use anything above militia to kick ass because few people ran proto. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
Rizlax Yazzax Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 12	Posted - 2013.11.17 16:40:00 - [55] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: 8213 wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: . I TOOOK MY BEATINGS LIKE A GOOD OL' BOY WHY CANT THEY!!!! WELCOME TO NEW EDEN NO, you didn't. Everyone back then was able to progress parallel with everyone else, the number of Protostompers back then was less than 5%. And there was less content in the game in general. You stomp because you're a fcking ahole, plain and simple. Grow the *** up, sorry you can't be the macho alpha male you always fantasized about in the real world. Don't give me that "returning the favor" bullshit. You never had to go through what new players have to go through now. Not even close. Are wonder if you are one of those fgs that made an alt, just to stomp the academy as well... Really now... Back then if you didnt have a Lr or an shield/speed tank caldari Ar suit you were ***. You know what your right I am an ahole in real life. Grow the **** up? Dude your telling this to a teenager. Dont need to be the macho alpha male I was always the recessive sneaky type of guy(I have a older brother whos 3x my size with ADHD and anger issues the only way I could get him back was by waiting and being sneaky). Last time I check a militia Ar couldn't even touch a proto suit back then. . I've run Gallente Assault from when I started in closed beta. I wouldn't say you HAD to run LR/Caldari, it was just one of the many FOTMs skilled into by stat-whores. Granted they gave you an edge (sometimes huge), but my point is a little bit of skill far outweighs the go to setup of the time. I managed to keep a mediocre KDR and make profit. I think there should be a noticeable difference between MLT/STD and Proto gear, but with TTK as it is the difference is both vast and negligible at the same time. A Protobear can drop MLT in the blink of an eye due to stacked Dmg Mods and armour, but that MLT suit could kill the Proto without much more effort while using less effective gear (obviously circumstantial depending on engagement type). I have no preference on TTK, I play the game as it is presented. However I believe TTK is why Protostomping is such an issue. It will probably never be stopped, but with higher TTK, the weaker suits can retreat to a better spot, flank or just plain run away. Yes, the stompers will still stomp and relentlessly chase KDR, but the players being stomped will be able to put up a decent fight and train their skills as they die. As opposed to insta-death now. Back in Chrome when Protostomping started to rise, I don't remember it being as big an issue as now, because TTK was much higher. Even though that was in large to hit detection, it provided - in my opinion - a more enjoyable experience where tactics could beat gun game. I hope that all makes sense, didn't mean to go on for so long.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 833	Posted - 2013.11.17 16:51:00 - [56] - Quote Foxbat 071 wrote: I don't think it's so much prototype gear making the matches one-sided, its the fact that it always seems like squads are always put on the same side. Almost every time I run solo, my team is all randoms, and the enemy team has 1-2 squads. Whenever I run in a squad, we usually have another squad against all randoms. I RARELY get to play squad vs squad matches, which are 100x more fun than stomping/getting stomped. It doesn't matter if you're running standard or proto, 1-2 squads vs all randoms will be a stomp every time. True, this is a big problem indeed! Happens way too often. There's been cases that three out of five matches have been like this: ATTACKER: our squad plus one other squad plus 1-2 randoms vs DEFENDER: Three random individuals Totally unenjoyable for everyone! Feeling the scanner is too simple and off balance? The fix:
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 1316	Posted - 2013.11.17 17:06:00 - [57] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: I've been watching the protostomp threads for a bit and I kinda have to ask... Isn't this simply a consistent hallmark of New Eden? It's certainly how things work in EVE from my understanding. My opinon is that for the ambush and skirmish modes there is an alternate option of "individual contract" and you can't synch in a sqd but once in the match you can join one. Consider this... Proto gear is far less dangerous to new players than an experienced squad fighting together in standard gear. If you've put in the time and effort to attain upper tier kit and have built friendships with other players (a major point of the game) why do we want to prevent people from using these things? Too be clear I'm not advocating protostomps, just asking a question. NO, in EVE, new players are not relentlessly slaughtered every single time they log on. New players have a quite thick blanket of protection by staying in Hisec, where another player can only legally attack you under declaration of war or in the instance that you accept a Duel. Outside of these, any player who attacks you in Hisec will be immediately destroyed by Concord. NPCs also do not destroy your pod so you are relatively safe to do PvE Missions, Mining, Exploration, Manufacturing, ETC. I've been playing EVE for a couple of months now and the one and only time I was attacked by another player was when I went to Lowsec. Protostomping is bad for the game, new players will simply not stick around to get their asses beat down day in and day out. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 551	Posted - 2013.11.17 17:09:00 - [58] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Protostomping is bad for the game, new players will simply not stick around to get their asses beat down day in and day out. I would suspect that people getting stomped actually break down the math on how long it would take them to attain a similar level of gear, and then quit. Being forcibly slowed in your progression so that CCP can sell boosters forces players to decide very early on if they want to stay in the game or not. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 1316	Posted - 2013.11.17 17:17:00 - [59] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Protostomping is bad for the game, new players will simply not stick around to get their asses beat down day in and day out. I would suspect that people getting stomped actually break down the math on how long it would take them to attain a similar level of gear, and then quit. Being forcibly slowed in your progression so that CCP can sell boosters forces players to decide very early on if they want to stay in the game or not. I disagree. I have over 16 million SP now. I have used 3 boosters, one 7 Day active, on 30 day Passive, and the free 3 day active that CCP gave out with the Newsletter. I, like many other RPG gamers have absolutely no problem grinding out SP to get to a higher level. The problem is that nobody wants to grind out this amount of SP against Stacked Squads of Vets with all Core Skills who run Proto 24/7. Players want to play against other players who are relatively close to them in terms of SP and Gear. Players want to be in challenging, but still competitive matches, not be ROFL stomped every single time they play. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 552	Posted - 2013.11.17 17:21:00 - [60] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: The problem is that nobody wants to grind out this amount of SP against Stacked Squads of Vets with all Core Skills who run Proto 24/7. Players want to play against other players who are relatively close to them in terms of SP and Gear. Players want to be in challenging, but still competitive matches, not be ROFL stomped every single time they play. And the playerbase is not large enough to support that type of matchmaking. This whole thread is misplaced, because it isn't actually about protostomping at all, but rather about how bad the matchmaking is. Unfortunately, it won't be getting fixed anytime soon. Mr. Hybrid Vayu

Meeko Fent Commando Perkone Caldari State 1568	Posted - 2013.11.17 17:26:00 - [61] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Every time I see a stop the stomping thread I think about when I first joined in Chromosome.... And then without mercy continue to stomp the living hell out of those new berries with my proto LR & Scr. Why you not give the new guys a chance you ask? Because I went through the same sh!t.... I TOOOK MY BEATINGS LIKE A GOOD OL' BOY WHY CANT THEY!!!! WELCOME TO NEW EDEN This excuse again? YOU didn't play against people with 3 times your HP in Chromo. We fought militia gear with militia gear. You didn't see Duovalle EVERY SINGLE MATCH in Chromo did you? There was the occasional Killstwitch GEK, but that was all. Nothing like this until very late chrome by which everybody had a fartload of SP. Now that new players are coming in, us with high tier gear stomp them while be shot back with militia gear. We got gently slapped. New players now are getting superman punched every time they play. For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy Replication Warrior
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 1317	Posted - 2013.11.17 17:34:00 - [62] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: The problem is that nobody wants to grind out this amount of SP against Stacked Squads of Vets with all Core Skills who run Proto 24/7. Players want to play against other players who are relatively close to them in terms of SP and Gear. Players want to be in challenging, but still competitive matches, not be ROFL stomped every single time they play. And the playerbase is not large enough to support that type of matchmaking. This whole thread is misplaced, because it isn't actually about protostomping at all, but rather about how bad the matchmaking is. Unfortunately, it won't be getting fixed anytime soon. You know, there is a really simple solution. Unfortunately it would NEVER be implemented because of attitudes such as this. While I do understand the perspective of these players, they need to realize they are ruining NPE and Player retention of this game. They could have just as much fun playing with their teams in Standard or advanced gear only. If they truly think they are such elite DUST players, what is the big deal about using Std or Adv gear to at least give the other guys slightly more of a chance? There comes a point in time when the players need to step up and accept some responsibility concerning the game they claim to love so much. To me, it is obvious that they care more about "being at the top" than they do about the longevity of DUST. They complain because player count is so low, but what are they doing to help the situation? Protostomping New Players with Qsynced teams of Vets certainly doesn't make the New Guys want to stick with the game. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
skippy678 F.T.U. 120	Posted - 2013.11.17 18:06:00 - [63] - Quote I understand that pubstomping is a problem. However this has been happening for a long time and I grew from junior to senior with it happening. keep an eye on who your playing and play or leave match. its easy. the fact of the matter is that if given the chance against a team of unorganized blueberries I will definately use proto gear and stonmp away, if against a team of "insert big name corp here" I dont leave I love the challenge, ill stick to advance gear and give em a run for their money...or bust a thales out and cost em..either way thats how i created the player I am now. leave the match if your scurred...but in a game that provides you with totally free suits you should stay and get gud. I can remmember several occasions whre me and a squad from my small 80 person corp have handed the asses back to many of these big fear inducing corps and thats why we play the game...ITS A TEAM GAME. I wont be leaving anymatches and niether will anybody in my corp without a problem from me. I believe the difference in skill levels will balance over time...he difference between a 1.5 mil.sp player and a 10 mil. player is great when the diffenerence between a 20 mill and a 30 mil is alotl less noticable after building the dropsuit upgrades up..IMO I agree they should adjust the matchmaking and fine tune some stuff...however if they made more than 1 mode of game and one was called hard and one was called easy I know wich one Ill be in... U.play.good? F.T.U. Recruiting Thread
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 311	Posted - 2013.11.17 18:41:00 - [64] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: The problem is that nobody wants to grind out this amount of SP against Stacked Squads of Vets with all Core Skills who run Proto 24/7. Players want to play against other players who are relatively close to them in terms of SP and Gear. Players want to be in challenging, but still competitive matches, not be ROFL stomped every single time they play. And the playerbase is not large enough to support that type of matchmaking. This whole thread is misplaced, because it isn't actually about protostomping at all, but rather about how bad the matchmaking is. Unfortunately, it won't be getting fixed anytime soon. Matchmaking would work with a larger active player base.
R'adeh Hunt The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 486	Posted - 2013.11.17 18:51:00 - [65] - Quote I rejoice every time I face a full proto team pummelling my team. Yes...they are hated for it. However... I simply switch to my Thales and take their "most hated" crown Proto? Advanced? Militia? Doesn't matter, they all die the same way
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 311	Posted - 2013.11.17 18:51:00 - [66] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: You know, there is a really simple solution. Unfortunately it would NEVER be implemented because of attitudes such as this. While I do understand the perspective of these players, they need to realize they are ruining NPE and Player retention of this game. They could have just as much fun playing with their teams in Standard or advanced gear only. If they truly think they are such elite DUST players, what is the big deal about using Std or Adv gear to at least give the other guys slightly more of a chance? I don't speak for anyone else's corp but I know we (OSG) by and large only run proto gear if the other side has it on the field or we see in the warbarge we've got a full squad or two on the opposite team. Honestly, the redline and stomps can be just as bad when we use standard gear. My standard SCR rifle with Prof 3 and standard damage mods is pretty effective. Some of our assault specialists with all AR skills to 5 can pretty much shred proto gear with Dren or Toxin rifles. My point is that it's not about proto gear. It's the experience gap between players and the core skills that make the biggest difference.
HyperionsThunder Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 133	Posted - 2013.11.17 19:44:00 - [67] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: You know, there is a really simple solution. Unfortunately it would NEVER be implemented because of attitudes such as this. While I do understand the perspective of these players, they need to realize they are ruining NPE and Player retention of this game. They could have just as much fun playing with their teams in Standard or advanced gear only. If they truly think they are such elite DUST players, what is the big deal about using Std or Adv gear to at least give the other guys slightly more of a chance? I don't speak for anyone else's corp but I know we (OSG) by and large only run proto gear if the other side has it on the field or we see in the warbarge we've got a full squad or two on the opposite team. Honestly, the redline and stomps can be just as bad when we use standard gear. My standard SCR rifle with Prof 3 and standard damage mods is pretty effective. Some of our assault specialists with all AR skills to 5 can pretty much shred proto gear with Dren or Toxin rifles. My point is that it's not about proto gear. It's the experience gap between players and the core skills that make the biggest difference. I agree with both this and your player base comment. There has to be some way to level the playing field though. Common sense will prevail. Adapt or die.
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 561	Posted - 2013.11.17 19:56:00 - [68] - Quote HyperionsThunder wrote: I agree with both this and your player base comment. There has to be some way to level the playing field though. Why? Why in the name of anything does the game have to be "fair" for people who want to just run crap gear? A lot of the complaints about proto stompers are based around the fact that for whatever reason, the proto squad can afford to do it, while the other side can, or will not do the same. In the former case, if due to SP, than it is a matchmaking issue, and needs to be remedied. Although how one does that given the limited player count is hard to figure out. In the latter, F them. If you can't afford to run proto, play better, or join a PC landholder and show that you are good enough to earn a roster spot and a paycheck. If you can't sustain running proto because you die to much, and as such it is a massive ISK sink, then get better, get a squad, and stop dieing so much. I wish more people would adopt a good attitude towards facing down good opposition instead of just crying all the time. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
HyperionsThunder Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 134	Posted - 2013.11.17 20:10:00 - [69] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: HyperionsThunder wrote: I agree with both this and your player base comment. There has to be some way to level the playing field though. Why? Why in the name of anything does the game have to be "fair" for people who want to just run crap gear? A lot of the complaints about proto stompers are based around the fact that for whatever reason, the proto squad can afford to do it, while the other side can, or will not do the same. In the former case, if due to SP, than it is a matchmaking issue, and needs to be remedied. Although how one does that given the limited player count is hard to figure out. In the latter, F them. If you can't afford to run proto, play better, or join a PC landholder and show that you are good enough to earn a roster spot and a paycheck. If you can't sustain running proto because you die to much, and as such it is a massive ISK sink, then get better, get a squad, and stop dieing so much. I wish more people would adopt a good attitude towards facing down good opposition instead of just crying all the time. I'm not crying about people running proto gear - in fact I generally run proto or ADV gear in every match I play. Why? Because it is better, and I'll be facing up against people doing the same. My point is that there needs to be some way for new players to figure out the mechanics of the game (and I don't just mean the academy). Most MMO games provide a larger introductory area, where new players can get used to playing. Doesn't EVE even have something similar? I understand that the player base is quite small, which makes match making difficult, but it will continue to shrink if new players are alienated in their first 5 matches. Common sense will prevail. Adapt or die.
Kierkegaard Soren DUST University Ivy League 21	Posted - 2013.11.17 21:18:00 - [70] - Quote Market Forces to the rescue. That's what we need, above anything else. Proto stomping must be balanced through cost and payout mechanics, and THEN matchmaking. In essence, it should be financially unviable to lose more than two proto suits in a public match, and tat the other end of the scale PC should give just enough isk to run proto at a profit only for so long as you can successfully hold territory without losing too many suits in doing so. They're premium items that dominate the battlefield in the right hands, and right now the game hands out isk like inflation never existed and that needs to change. Don't take away the choice to be a **** in pubs, instead increase the exposure to serious isk loss for screwing up just one game, and then let the player base adapt (or die).

echo47 Minmatar Republic 100	Posted - 2013.11.17 22:12:00 - [71] - Quote When you first start playing you have fewer skill points , you will die more matchmaking will not change this. What will make a difference is if you learn from it. If your first reaction to several poor games in a row is to come to the forum and cry about it, quit and send childish emails stop playing, I donGÇÖt want you on my team. I have been on both sides stomped and stomping. I play solo because I find it more of a challenge. Being stomped and on the stomping side I have learned how important uplinks are. And which null cannons on the map are the most important to control to win. The stomps and red lining that take place is not always due to gear or skill points. ItGÇÖs a small part of it. Most of the time its poor game play, and a lack of team work. The sooner we all admit that the sooner we can find solutions. For example on a map with 5 objectives how often have you seen entire squads run and hack the first open turret or null cannon instead of making an attempt to control the city? Already knowing your team is outmatched. Or, heavies, sentinels and commandos running across the field from the MCC. How about the single player in an LAV that drives right past said heavy at the start of the match. Meanwhile the other team is setting up shop, with nano hives and uplinks on the main objectives. Or the best I have seen, locked squads with two people in them. Another good one is the squad commander not giving squad orders. If your team is outmatched that is the time to be the most aggressive stick with your team mates and blob right back. No amount of affirmative action matchmaking or artificial gameplay barriers will fix this. Take some responsibility for being stomped and learn from it. Devs can't and shouldn't control the decisions players make in game.
4447 Pure Innocence. EoN. 814	Posted - 2013.11.17 22:21:00 - [72] - Quote I REALLY DON'T KNOW HOW, CCP HAVEN'T GOT A GAME MODE THAT HAS PRE SELECTED SUITS(CAPS BITCHES)
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 950	Posted - 2013.11.17 22:22:00 - [73] - Quote 4447 wrote: I REALLY DON'T KNOW HOW, CCP HAVEN'T GOT A GAME MODE THAT HAS PRE SELECTED SUITS(CAPS BITCHES) Eeek! My precious eyes! You have offended them! (now with more exclamation marks) In the world of DUST/ The words are all in haiku/ Tweets are just too long
echo47 Minmatar Republic 100	Posted - 2013.11.17 22:32:00 - [74] - Quote 4447 wrote: I REALLY DON'T KNOW HOW, CCP HAVEN'T GOT A GAME MODE THAT HAS PRE SELECTED SUITS(CAPS BITCHES) Because it would be lame.
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 60	Posted - 2013.11.17 22:44:00 - [75] - Quote Protostomping is a problem - BUT matchmaking has NEVER been so bad..... NEVER....
FAKIR REDETTa Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.11.17 22:54:00 - [76] - Quote 8213 wrote: I don't mind it, because I can always use my own Protogear, or just switch to a starter fit. I only play pubs when I feel like playing not so seriously, and to grind some ISK. But going against an ENTIRE(all16) team of Prototype is ridiculous. The protostompers need to just knock it off, you're getting nowhere by doing it and you are hurting the game by being selfish aholes. Seriously, what's the point of doing it? I seriously look at what's going on and have nothing but personal disdain for this pathetic behavior. Who is impressed with stomping noobs in Starter fits? Do you actually try to pretend you're good when doing it? Is it some sort of accomplishment in your world? Pubstomping is wrong, 100%. It will only drive the playerbase even lower, than these guys will have to go back to games with more players on it and be the loser they were there all over again. And to CCP. This is 100% YOUR FAULT**. How can a match making system be this one-sided? Has anyone been in a match in a pub that actually was even remotely close? How are people who have less than 50 days play time being put on one team, and stacked squads of players who have over a year's play time being put all on the other side? game, after game, after game, after game... I understand that CCP thought it was a good idea to make a game that was purposely unbalanced and unfair, but like most of everything they have done with DUST 514, they never thought it through. CCP, you know why you can't keep players on this game. How long is this joke of an experiment going to last? How is it that you can even afford to build this game with <5,000 people playing this game WORLDWIDE on any given day? You know the answer, so why haven't you corrected it? How hard is it to make a match making system that balances out squads and time played in game? Having a low playerbase is not an reason either, that is an excuse. . GûêGûæGûê GûêGûêGûê GûêGûæGûê GûÇGûêGûÇ GûêGûæGûê GûêGûæGûê GûæGûÇGûæ GûÇGûÇGûÇ GûÇGûÇGûÇ GûÇGûêGûÇ GûêGûæGûê GûêGûÇGûÇ GûÇGûêGûÇ GûæGûêGûæ GûêGûæGûê GûÇGûÇGûê GûæGûêGûæ GûÇGûÇGûæ GûÇGûÇGûÇ GûÇGûÇGûÇ GûæGûÇGûæ GûêGûæGûæ GûêGûêGûê GûêGûÇGûÇ GûÇGûêGûÇ GûêGûæGûæ GûêGûæGûê GûÇGûÇGûê GûæGûêGûæ GûÇGûÇGûÇ GûÇGûÇGûÇ GûÇGûÇGûÇ GûæGûÇGûæ GûÇGûêGûÇ GûêGûæGûê GûêGûÇGûÇ GûæGûêGûæ GûêGûÇGûê GûêGûÇGûÇ GûæGûÇGûæ GûÇGûæGûÇ GûÇGûÇGûÇ GûêGûÇGûÇ GûêGûÇGûê GûêGûêGûêGûêGûê GûêGûÇGûÇ GûêGûæGûê GûêGûÇGûê GûêGûæGûêGûæGûê GûêGûÇGûÇ GûÇGûÇGûÇ GûÇGûæGûÇ GûÇGûæGûÇGûæGûÇ GûÇGûÇGûÇ
4447 Pure Innocence. EoN. 814	Posted - 2013.11.17 23:07:00 - [77] - Quote echo47 wrote: 4447 wrote: I REALLY DON'T KNOW HOW, CCP HAVEN'T GOT A GAME MODE THAT HAS PRE SELECTED SUITS(CAPS BITCHES) Because it would be lame. How
Meeko Fent Commando Perkone Caldari State 1572	Posted - 2013.11.17 23:39:00 - [78] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: HyperionsThunder wrote: I agree with both this and your player base comment. There has to be some way to level the playing field though. Why? Why in the name of anything does the game have to be "fair" for people who want to just run crap gear? A lot of the complaints about proto stompers are based around the fact that for whatever reason, the proto squad can afford to do it, while the other side can, or will not do the same. In the former case, if due to SP, than it is a matchmaking issue, and needs to be remedied. Although how one does that given the limited player count is hard to figure out. In the latter, F them. If you can't afford to run proto, play better, or join a PC landholder and show that you are good enough to earn a roster spot and a paycheck. If you can't sustain running proto because you die to much, and as such it is a massive ISK sink, then get better, get a squad, and stop dieing so much. I wish more people would adopt a good attitude towards facing down good opposition instead of just crying all the time. There's a difference between "Good Opposition" and throwing a Baby to a pack of Wolfbears. Some people CANT use Mega awesome proto, because, they don't have eighty-six gigajillion ISK, and they don't have a ISK printing machine behind them. Some people want to fight halfway fair battles. Why should I HAVE to use Proto in a casual match? Its there to be casual, to mine some ISK for new players and old alike, however it becomes more of a Annoyance Test for those who don't go there to stomp. For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy Replication Warrior
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 1326	Posted - 2013.11.17 23:45:00 - [79] - Quote Kierkegaard Soren wrote: Market Forces to the rescue. That's what we need, above anything else. Proto stomping must be balanced through cost and payout mechanics, and THEN matchmaking. In essence, it should be financially unviable to lose more than two proto suits in a public match, and tat the other end of the scale PC should give just enough isk to run proto at a profit only for so long as you can successfully hold territory without losing too many suits in doing so. They're premium items that dominate the battlefield in the right hands, and right now the game hands out isk like inflation never existed and that needs to change. Don't take away the choice to be a **** in pubs, instead increase the exposure to serious isk loss for screwing up just one game, and then let the player base adapt (or die). Player market driving up the cost of Proto (and probably Adv) gear would only make the Proto gear less affordable to those who don't have a PC ISK Farm to fund them. This would only make the problem worse than it already is. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
dmitri soroka The Generals EoN. 14	Posted - 2013.11.17 23:51:00 - [80] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Kierkegaard Soren wrote: Market Forces to the rescue. That's what we need, above anything else. Proto stomping must be balanced through cost and payout mechanics, and THEN matchmaking. In essence, it should be financially unviable to lose more than two proto suits in a public match, and tat the other end of the scale PC should give just enough isk to run proto at a profit only for so long as you can successfully hold territory without losing too many suits in doing so. They're premium items that dominate the battlefield in the right hands, and right now the game hands out isk like inflation never existed and that needs to change. Don't take away the choice to be a **** in pubs, instead increase the exposure to serious isk loss for screwing up just one game, and then let the player base adapt (or die). Player market driving up the cost of Proto (and probably Adv) gear would only make the Proto gear less affordable to those who don't have a PC ISK Farm to fund them. This would only make the problem worse than it already is. I still believe they should GIVE BONUSES for killing a proto suit. ALSO if you use proto suit and lose it, WAR POINT MINUS if killed by a noob suit!!!

dmitri soroka The Generals EoN. 14	Posted - 2013.11.17 23:53:00 - [81] - Quote FAKIR REDETTa wrote: 8213 wrote: I don't mind it, because I can always use my own Protogear, or just switch to a starter fit. I only play pubs when I feel like playing not so seriously, and to grind some ISK. But going against an ENTIRE(all16) team of Prototype is ridiculous. The protostompers need to just knock it off, you're getting nowhere by doing it and you are hurting the game by being selfish aholes. Seriously, what's the point of doing it? I seriously look at what's going on and have nothing but personal disdain for this pathetic behavior. Who is impressed with stomping noobs in Starter fits? Do you actually try to pretend you're good when doing it? Is it some sort of accomplishment in your world? Pubstomping is wrong, 100%. It will only drive the playerbase even lower, than these guys will have to go back to games with more players on it and be the loser they were there all over again. And to CCP. This is 100% YOUR FAULT**. How can a match making system be this one-sided? Has anyone been in a match in a pub that actually was even remotely close? How are people who have less than 50 days play time being put on one team, and stacked squads of players who have over a year's play time being put all on the other side? game, after game, after game, after game... I understand that CCP thought it was a good idea to make a game that was purposely unbalanced and unfair, but like most of everything they have done with DUST 514, they never thought it through. CCP, you know why you can't keep players on this game. How long is this joke of an experiment going to last? How is it that you can even afford to build this game with <5,000 people playing this game WORLDWIDE on any given day? You know the answer, so why haven't you corrected it? How hard is it to make a match making system that balances out squads and time played in game? Having a low playerbase is not an reason either, that is an excuse. . GûêGûæGûê GûêGûêGûê GûêGûæGûê GûÇGûêGûÇ GûêGûæGûê GûêGûæGûê GûæGûÇGûæ GûÇGûÇGûÇ GûÇGûÇGûÇ GûÇGûêGûÇ GûêGûæGûê GûêGûÇGûÇ GûÇGûêGûÇ GûæGûêGûæ GûêGûæGûê GûÇGûÇGûê GûæGûêGûæ GûÇGûÇGûæ GûÇGûÇGûÇ GûÇGûÇGûÇ GûæGûÇGûæ GûêGûæGûæ GûêGûêGûê GûêGûÇGûÇ GûÇGûêGûÇ GûêGûæGûæ GûêGûæGûê GûÇGûÇGûê GûæGûêGûæ GûÇGûÇGûÇ GûÇGûÇGûÇ GûÇGûÇGûÇ GûæGûÇGûæ GûÇGûêGûÇ GûêGûæGûê GûêGûÇGûÇ GûæGûêGûæ GûêGûÇGûê GûêGûÇGûÇ GûæGûÇGûæ GûÇGûæGûÇ GûÇGûÇGûÇ GûêGûÇGûÇ GûêGûÇGûê GûêGûêGûêGûêGûê GûêGûÇGûÇ GûêGûæGûê GûêGûÇGûê GûêGûæGûêGûæGûê GûêGûÇGûÇ GûÇGûÇGûÇ GûÇGûæGûÇ GûÇGûæGûÇGûæGûÇ GûÇGûÇGûÇ Look as smart comment from a McDonalds employee.
m twiggz Eternal Beings 149	Posted - 2013.11.18 00:10:00 - [82] - Quote I would agree that pub stomping, or proto stomping, is a huge issue for new players. As someone who has been playing for a while now I find it more of an annoyance than an actual problem. People should most definitely be able to run whatever gear they want, this is a sandbox game after all. The biggest issue is that there isn't a "safe" place for new players to learn/play the game. The Battle Academy is an absolute joke. Personally I'd like to see matches broken down with "meta-level" options. Basically it would break down the game into matches where everyone can only run militia, basic and standard gear. Then matches where people could run militia, basic, standard and advanced gear. Then matches where all gear is viable to be used. When queuing for whichever game mode you want to play you would have the option of which meta-level you'd like to play at. In my opinion this would make for better matches. Granted skilled players would still be able to go into the "basic level" game modes in basic gear and still completely run over new players, but at least the new players would have a chance because the gear would be matched. Personally I don't like red-lining people, nor do I enjoy being red-lined. It makes for boring matches no matter which side you're on.
Meeko Fent Commando Perkone Caldari State 1575	Posted - 2013.11.18 00:19:00 - [83] - Quote m twiggz wrote: I would agree that pub stomping, or proto stomping, is a huge issue for new players. As someone who has been playing for a while now I find it more of an annoyance than an actual problem. People should most definitely be able to run whatever gear they want, this is a sandbox game after all. The biggest issue is that there isn't a "safe" place for new players to learn/play the game. The Battle Academy is an absolute joke. Personally I'd like to see matches broken down with "meta-level" options. Basically it would break down the game into matches where everyone can only run militia, basic and standard gear. Then matches where people could run militia, basic, standard and advanced gear. Then matches where all gear is viable to be used. When queuing for whichever game mode you want to play you would have the option of which meta-level you'd like to play at. In my opinion this would make for better matches. Granted skilled players would still be able to go into the "basic level" game modes in basic gear and still completely run over new players, but at least the new players would have a chance because the gear would be matched. Personally I don't like red-lining people, nor do I enjoy being red-lined. It makes for boring matches no matter which side you're on. Indeed. Just a safe zone to mine some ISKies while enjoying oneself would suffice. Leave FW alone, and Re-add merc contracts for the PC corps to auction off battles to. Just make Pubs safe man... For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy Replication Warrior
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 746	Posted - 2013.11.18 07:48:00 - [84] - Quote My corp was doing a fundraiser today. All the tax was at 100%, everything you made went right back into the corp. We just use starter fits and BPO gear so we don't personally lose any ISK during the fundraiser. We just play as many Ambushes as possible for 1-2 hours. Let me tell you what we witnessed: A team win an a game after calling in 3 HAVs (blew up all 3) and lost about another 10,000,000ISK in dropsuits. A guy go 45/6 in a 120,000ISK dropsuit... he lost money, but he gets paid 5mil/wk from his Corp. And, countless tryhards actually put up a fight against us. I even had one kid who topped his team with a WHOPPING 18/6 1400WP score messages me and tell me how bad our Corp must suck, lol. I went 10/10 and made 1500WP. We played a team that was stacked with top teir corps, and have way through, after they were ahead by 40 clones yet, they called in HAVs just to tear the blueberries apart even more, because they didn't want to just win, they wanted to flat out crush the other team. Again, the match making is the problem. It's simple as seperateing squads and players with certian amounts of time spent played in game. Sure, a player can make an alt and try to stomp noobs like they already do in the Academy, that problem will always be there, but at least the you can't tag along with you're corp and slaughter noobs for negative profit. These corps can afford to run proto, because they are a corp. NO individual in this game can afford to run Prototype gear all the time. Keep the corporations out of the public matches and keep them in FW and PC where they belong.
Karl Marx II Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 45	Posted - 2013.11.18 08:05:00 - [85] - Quote echo47 wrote: When you first start playing you have fewer skill points , you will die more matchmaking will not change this. What will make a difference is if you learn from it. If your first reaction to several poor games in a row is to come to the forum and cry about it, quit and send childish emails stop playing, I donGÇÖt want you on my team. I have been on both sides stomped and stomping. I play solo because I find it more of a challenge. Being stomped and on the stomping side I have learned how important uplinks are. And which null cannons on the map are the most important to control to win. The stomps and red lining that take place is not always due to gear or skill points. ItGÇÖs a small part of it. Most of the time its poor game play, and a lack of team work. The sooner we all admit that the sooner we can find solutions. For example on a map with 5 objectives how often have you seen entire squads run and hack the first open turret or null cannon instead of making an attempt to control the city? Already knowing your team is outmatched. Or, heavies, sentinels and commandos running across the field from the MCC. How about the single player in an LAV that drives right past said heavy at the start of the match. Meanwhile the other team is setting up shop, with nano hives and uplinks on the main objectives. Or the best I have seen, locked squads with two people in them. Another good one is the squad commander not giving squad orders. If your team is outmatched that is the time to be the most aggressive stick with your team mates and blob right back. No amount of affirmative action matchmaking or artificial gameplay barriers will fix this. Take some responsibility for being stomped and learn from it. Devs can't and shouldn't control the decisions players make in game. Facepalm , right now the matchmaking sticks 2 stacked squads of guys in full proto v 16 randoms .. how exactly is that not broken ??????? Have you actually re read your post at all ? You say it's a learning curve right but throwing new players against the most experienced players in the game every match isn't a learning curve it's torture .. they need SOMETHING ELSE to do other than being steamrolled constantly .. if you put players against others of a similar sp level then the problem would be fixed .. the issue is throwing new players to the wolves for months on end because they simply will not continue to play a game they don't enjoy look at these stats and tell me the current system is working http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust Hard to argue that everything is fine as it is when the player base has been on a gradual decline over the past 6 months isn't it ? HTFU doesn't work on a F2P game .. most people have nothing invested but time and will simply walk away Join the Revolution
Kira Takizawa Ethereal Eden 45	Posted - 2013.11.18 08:35:00 - [86] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Every time I see a stop the stomping thread I think about when I first joined in Chromosome.... And then without mercy continue to stomp the living hell out of those new berries with my proto LR & Scr. Why you not give the new guys a chance you ask? Because I went through the same sh!t.... I TOOOK MY BEATINGS LIKE A GOOD OL' BOY WHY CANT THEY!!!! WELCOME TO NEW EDEN Troll or not that is why this game is dying if you can't see that I will make a personal list to continually snipe you and your bastard buddies over and over till the end up time.
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 755	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:39:00 - [87] - Quote Seriously, this ** is getting out of hand. I was playing on my alt, and got into a match against Some Ancient Exiles DJNN Kujo, MJ 420, Porkchop, Appia, LHughs etc... They had an HAV, a Balac's, and Thale's, and the rest were still in 800HP Logi Assault getups with Duvolles, against an entire team of randoms. Seriously, this ** just proves that these corps are single handedly trying to ruin the game for everyone else, because they don't want any competition. Since DUST has a small playerbase, they finally stand out in a game, and don't want to jeopardize that. WHY? Why would you even think about going into a Pub match with a multi-million ISK squad, and priceless Officer Weapons?
XEROO COOL Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 144	Posted - 2013.11.19 21:04:00 - [88] - Quote 8213 wrote: Seriously, this ** is getting out of hand. I was playing on my alt, and got into a match against Some Ancient Exiles DJNN Kujo, MJ 420, Porkchop, Appia, LHughs etc... They had an HAV, a Balac's, and Thale's, and the rest were still in 800HP Logi Assault getups with Duvolles, against an entire team of randoms. Seriously, this ** just proves that these corps are single handedly trying to ruin the game for everyone else, because they don't want any competition. Since DUST has a small playerbase, they finally stand out in a game, and don't want to jeopardize that. WHY? Why would you even think about going into a Pub match with a multi-million ISK squad, and priceless Officer Weapons? epeen stroking... that is why. Everyone has a plan until you punch em in the face! (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+
Jak'Saan 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 106	Posted - 2013.11.19 21:10:00 - [89] - Quote Honestly I couldn't agree more. I have been playing this game exclusively since closed beta. Exclusively. The only weeks I did not cap out was 1 week when I was on vacation. The last few times I played, I found myself raging every match. I'm so turned off of the game that I am breaking my consecutive weeks of capping out (I am almost 30 mil sp). And I have no desire to pick it up again until CCP even admits that this is an issue, (hence why I am still on forum) This game just plain sucks now. No fun at all. Well anyway there are lots of other great games out there until CCP decides to ( or not to) do something about it.
HyperionsThunder Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 138	Posted - 2013.11.19 22:03:00 - [90] - Quote Jak'Saan wrote: Honestly I couldn't agree more. I have been playing this game exclusively since closed beta. Exclusively. The only weeks I did not cap out was 1 week when I was on vacation. The last few times I played, I found myself raging every match. I'm so turned off of the game that I am breaking my consecutive weeks of capping out (I am almost 30 mil sp). And I have no desire to pick it up again until CCP even admits that this is an issue, (hence why I am still on forum) This game just plain sucks now. No fun at all. Well anyway there are lots of other great games out there until CCP decides to ( or not to) do something about it. Shouldn't you be on the dealing end of this problem with 30 million SP? Common sense will prevail. Adapt or die.

Ensar Cael Svartur Bjorn 26	Posted - 2013.11.19 22:07:00 - [91] - Quote Taken long enough for a proper discussion on this subject to arise. Normally its just pure QQ but this thread actually throws out points of truth. The game should allow for ALL play styles and ego stroking to be met but not at the cost of a n00bs getting turned off. Put the proto w*nking into perspective. It is a very powerful suit and takes serious effort to achieve but if its being used to crush those with NO hope of countering it then its just plain pointless and self defeating. CCP needs to address this issue and soon by taking some measures to counter this. Why not change PC? Turn it over to the EVE side. It's plainly obvious that mercs get paid to fight and that's what needs to happen. Open up the EVE - DUST link, get the corporations and markets going then make it so that mercs DO NOT own land but fight contracts for the EVE corps that do. Aero Yassavi made an excellent thread that contains suggestions from all sorts on FW remodelling that can be applied to the whole game at points. To all the big corps, take some responsibility. Quit trolling the n00bs in pub matches and stop destroying the game for everyone.
HyperionsThunder Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 138	Posted - 2013.11.19 22:22:00 - [92] - Quote Ensar Cael wrote: Taken long enough for a proper discussion on this subject to arise. Normally its just pure QQ but this thread actually throws out points of truth. The game should allow for ALL play styles and ego stroking to be met but not at the cost of a n00bs getting turned off. Put the proto wnking into perspective. It is a very powerful suit and takes serious effort to achieve but if its being used to crush those with NO hope of countering it then its just plain pointless and self defeating. CCP needs to address this issue and soon by taking some measures to counter this. Why not change PC? Turn it over to the EVE side. It's plainly obvious that mercs get paid to fight and that's what needs to happen. Open up the EVE - DUST link, get the corporations and markets going then make it so that mercs DO NOT own land but fight contracts for the EVE corps that do. Aero Yassavi made an excellent thread that contains suggestions from all sorts on FW remodelling that can be applied to the whole game at points. To all the big corps, take some responsibility. Quit trolling the n00bs in pub matches and stop destroying the game for everyone. I agree that more experienced players should take more responsibility, but when push comes to shove, it isn't always the gear that leads to very one sided matches. Core skills and teamwork are what drive the n00b crushing, and without a larger player base, matchmaking won't change. So the question is, how do we convince blueberries to stick around? I think we've all been on the receiving end of much better players (I know I have), but we stuck around to get better. Unfortunately, most gamers won't feel that same investment (especially since it is F2P - I mean if you didn't spend any money on it, who gives a *). Common sense will prevail. Adapt or die.**
Jak'Saan 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 107	Posted - 2013.11.19 22:28:00 - [93] - Quote HyperionsThunder wrote: Shouldn't you be on the dealing end of this problem with 30 million SP? No, truthfully, I don't like proto stomping. It kills the game for me. Plus proto vs proto == lots of isk for all. I only proto stomp when I hate your proto-stomping *** and my sole objective is to cost you money. And even though the games I was playing made me rage every time, I did feel kind of stupid for raging because I was always at the top of the chart with my dinky Black Eagle. It made me wonder why no one else was raging at how fast we were dying. That's when I just quit the game altogether for the time being.
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 182	Posted - 2013.11.19 22:59:00 - [94] - Quote Guilty tryhard here - part of the problem recently is the 'best 3 wins WPx2 payback promotion' for uncapped SP. What happens when you cap and you have hundreds of millions of ISK to blow? You try to beat your own high score. A good round will be in the 3000+WP range, and with 3 of those you could get an extra 18,000SP per day! Lately I've been playing alts (in addition to capping my main). I have 0SP in weapons, so I haven't forgotten what it is like to play militia vs pro, because I do it pretty much every day. I die a lot, but it is still fun. There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
Cenex Langly D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 405	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:01:00 - [95] - Quote HyperionsThunder wrote: So having just experienced the problem to a huge degree, I must say it has got to be incredibly frustrating. I just started a pub match, and instantly (and I'm serious, IT WAS INSTANTLY) died every time I spawned. I'm running an ADV gallente logi, stacked armor mods and some (undisclosed) proto gear. Nevertheless, I died as soon as I spawned, using the smart spawn option (not just spawning in to some dumb drop uplink in a bad position). This creates several significant problems. It was frustrating, and that isn't the point. If I wasn't running the gear I was, I might not have gone 1 and 4, so if I was a new player, this would have been impossible. Instantly spawning and dying isn't worth the time of any gamer. If you aren't spawned in to the beginning of a match, you could find yourself on the end of a Duvolle, and that is the big problem. In order for this game to last, there has to be some distinction, so an entire team can hold off a squad of vets. I'm don't mean to say, "WE NEED TO STOP THE PROTOSTOMPING WTF I HATE DYING," I mean to say that the long term vision of this game is hurt by the fact that new players are turned away by matches like mine... Even long term vets are turned off by the horrible matchmaking. One squad can't hold of a sync'd team. A sync'd team against a team of solo players is also unfortunate. I usually leave these matches. Director (Management) D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
DNAcompound xCosmic Voidx Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 28	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:12:00 - [96] - Quote There's always the option Tiercide P.S. it'll fix a lot of the problems we're having
MRBH1997 Knights Of Ender Public Disorder. 32	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:51:00 - [97] - Quote I agree that there must be something done to fix this problem. +1 CEO of Knights of Ender, Pro Jack of All Traits
Meeko Fent Commando Perkone Caldari State 1612	Posted - 2013.11.20 02:09:00 - [98] - Quote DNAcompound wrote: There's always the option Tiercide P.S. it'll fix a lot of the problems we're having This is my preferred fix. It would make new players half useful in PC too. Squads still would keel, but at least the new guys can kill them. For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy Replication Warrior
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 146	Posted - 2013.11.20 02:15:00 - [99] - Quote This is new eden its supposed to happen In eve greifing is so supported people actually make their livings of killing miners So yeah Christ is lord Sanguine knights , open recruitment, join now. Free tacos
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 146	Posted - 2013.11.20 02:20:00 - [100] - Quote But to keep a better player retention rate lets extend the academy to be about a months worth of play for a newberrie Christ is lord Sanguine knights , open recruitment, join now. Free tacos

XxWarlordxX97 5540	Posted - 2013.11.20 02:38:00 - [101] - Quote So max the suit out just to not use it Level 5 forum warrior Heavy/Scout <3
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 893	Posted - 2013.11.20 03:03:00 - [102] - Quote 8213 wrote: -- snip reasonable comment -- But going against an ENTIRE(all16) team of Prototype is ridiculous. -- snip QQ Kitten flood --- And to CCP. This is 100% YOUR FAULT. How can a match making system be this one-sided? -- snip many incorrect assumptions -- How many Mercs are under the mistaken impression that there is a match making system in DUST? Raise your hands. Now put your ignorant hands down because there is no such thing. There never has been and nothing has been published to suggest it ever will be. There are security zones in EVE. We don't even have those. All we can do is select the types of battles we are interested in playing. That is it. The only matchmaking is done by the player. Select public, factional warfare or get involved with a corp doing PC matches. We have asked, we have pleaded and we even inquired (as Closed Beta Testers) about test servers to try out equipment and to verify bugs and fixes. We have never received anything for all those plaintive wails. We never will. This is not CCP/Shanghai's fault! This is their decision about their game. You just don't like it. HTFU. Welcome to DUST.
noobsniper the 2nd The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 84	Posted - 2013.11.20 03:23:00 - [103] - Quote Just do what I do and go 27/0 in std gear thats how u prove your good not by being cunts and running your top tier suits so u can think your good stop being assholes ya proto scrubs save that **** for pc stop relying on your proto scrub crutches and learn to do good in normal gear just call me scumbag noob
HyperionsThunder Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 140	Posted - 2013.11.20 14:22:00 - [104] - Quote noobsniper the 2nd wrote: Just do what I do and go 27/0 in std gear thats how u prove your good not by being cunts and running your top tier suits so u can think your good stop being assholes ya proto scrubs save that ** for pc stop relying on your proto scrub crutches and learn to do good in normal gear But the only reason people focus on prototype gear is because they see the suit and weapon when they get killed. What are your core skills at? I played with a merc last night, who kept bragging about how he was doing SO well in militia gear. He even exclaimed that he had been kicked out of several protostomping corps because he was "too good." When I asked him about his skills, he had +20 million SP, with most of it in weapons, and the rest in his dropsuit. We can hammer this point into the ground, it isn't gear that is the crux - the problems are core skills, tight running squads, queue syncing, etc. With respect to people being able to make a living off killing miners, at least the miners can hire some defense, or stay in highsec space. Maybe CCP (well no probably never) will implement something similar. Common sense will prevail. Adapt or die.**
trraacx Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 27	Posted - 2013.11.20 15:23:00 - [105] - Quote Quoting this for the bump. This is an awesome idea. Make an incentive for the challenge. Mad Syringe wrote: I proposed this before: Reward killing strong loadouts with weak loadouts with more SP. Meaning, if you kill a Proto with say a Basic suit, you should get 75 SP. If you kill a Basic with a Proto you only get 25 SP. If the suits are more or less matched, give 50SP. Vets would still have an advantage (due to passive skills), but the desire to run proto would be reduced. This would reward newer players (or veterans who run cheap) and it would give less incentive to run Proto all the time. Protos would still be the last resort for FW2.0 and PC, but in pub matches, everyone would more or less avoid it.
Onesimus Tarsus Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 683	Posted - 2013.11.20 15:28:00 - [106] - Quote Simple: Proto kills proto - full points Proto kills ADV or lower - no points ADV or lower kills ADV or lower - full points ADVor lower kills proto - 3x points Next.
Jak'Saan 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 108	Posted - 2013.11.20 15:34:00 - [107] - Quote Onesimus Tarsus wrote: Simple: Proto kills proto - full points Proto kills ADV or lower - no points ADV or lower kills ADV or lower - full points ADVor lower kills proto - 3x points If you feel really sorry for protos, give them .33 points for ADV on down. Next. Man I wish players actually had a say in these things. This would be amazing!!
HyperionsThunder Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 141	Posted - 2013.11.20 15:34:00 - [108] - Quote trraacx wrote: Quoting this for the bump. This is an awesome idea. Make an incentive for the challenge. Mad Syringe wrote: I proposed this before: Reward killing strong loadouts with weak loadouts with more SP. Meaning, if you kill a Proto with say a Basic suit, you should get 75 SP. If you kill a Basic with a Proto you only get 25 SP. If the suits are more or less matched, give 50SP. Vets would still have an advantage (due to passive skills), but the desire to run proto would be reduced. This would reward newer players (or veterans who run cheap) and it would give less incentive to run Proto all the time. Protos would still be the last resort for FW2.0 and PC, but in pub matches, everyone would more or less avoid it. These ideas are already implemented in the ISK payout scheme. The more ISK lost by the other team, the higher the payout. S'why you can get 3 million ISK from a pubmatch on one day, and 150K on another. Common sense will prevail. Adapt or die.
Onesimus Tarsus Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 684	Posted - 2013.11.20 15:39:00 - [109] - Quote HyperionsThunder wrote: trraacx wrote: Quoting this for the bump. This is an awesome idea. Make an incentive for the challenge. Mad Syringe wrote: I proposed this before: Reward killing strong loadouts with weak loadouts with more SP. Meaning, if you kill a Proto with say a Basic suit, you should get 75 SP. If you kill a Basic with a Proto you only get 25 SP. If the suits are more or less matched, give 50SP. Vets would still have an advantage (due to passive skills), but the desire to run proto would be reduced. This would reward newer players (or veterans who run cheap) and it would give less incentive to run Proto all the time. Protos would still be the last resort for FW2.0 and PC, but in pub matches, everyone would more or less avoid it. These ideas are already implemented in the ISK payout scheme. The more ISK lost by the other team, the higher the payout. S'why you can get 3 million ISK from a pubmatch on one day, and 150K on another. Not isk, SP. Protos shouldn't get one thin dime for killing basic gear, and I mean any suit carrying any shred of proto gear too.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 253	Posted - 2013.11.20 15:42:00 - [110] - Quote Stop crying OP. If you cant take it, get outta New Eden. This is the way its meant to be. DUST 514 is sadly not your general FPS shooter made for the masses. The handheld matchmaking you so desperately want, may be added for the Arena Modes that DUST will have in time.

LHughes xx The Fairies xx 182	Posted - 2013.11.20 15:48:00 - [111] - Quote 8213 Don't hate the players. I use proto 24/7, I don't runaround killing militia fits thinking I'm amazing. I know it's unfair but what do you want me to do? Play the game poorer? That includes by not choosing Proto fittings.
Jak'Saan 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 108	Posted - 2013.11.20 15:48:00 - [112] - Quote Jungian wrote: Stop crying OP. If you cant take it, get outta New Eden. This is the way its meant to be. DUST 514 is sadly not your general FPS shooter made for the masses. The handheld matchmaking you so desperately want, may be added for the Arena Modes that DUST will have in time. Lol exactly the attitude that turns new players away and now vets too. Enjoy your dying game then... btw if you don't believe it is dying: http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust This month's triple sp event and the 3 top wins payout event have redeemed the month, but Dust is in fact dying.
XEROO COOL Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 145	Posted - 2013.11.20 16:03:00 - [113] - Quote LHughes wrote: 8213 Don't hate the players. I use proto 24/7, I don't runaround killing militia fits thinking I'm amazing. I know it's unfair but what do you want me to do? Play the game poorer? That includes by not choosing Proto fittings. How about you challenge yourself and see if you can do just as well in advanced or basic fits? Save your proto fits for when you see proto stompers on the other side or for FW or PC. No one says you can't run proto but the second you start going 35-0 in a pub match and melting newberries in .05 seconds... and you don't change your fit.... you are just epeen stroking. The highest I run in pub matches are advanced gear... and I am usually in basic or cheap fits.. I might only go 15-7 or some games 7-15.. but at least I am challenging myself. What challenge is there to 3 shotting a guy in a starter fit? NONE Everyone has a plan until you punch em in the face! (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+
noobsniper the 2nd The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 86	Posted - 2013.11.20 16:40:00 - [114] - Quote HyperionsThunder wrote: noobsniper the 2nd wrote: Just do what I do and go 27/0 in std gear thats how u prove your good not by being cunts and running your top tier suits so u can think your good stop being assholes ya proto scrubs save that **** for pc stop relying on your proto scrub crutches and learn to do good in normal gear But the only reason people focus on prototype gear is because they see the suit and weapon when they get killed. What are your core skills at? I played with a merc last night, who kept bragging about how he was doing SO well in militia gear. He even exclaimed that he had been kicked out of several protostomping corps because he was "too good." When I asked him about his skills, he had +20 million SP, with most of it in weapons, and the rest in his dropsuit. We can hammer this point into the ground, it isn't gear that is the crux - the problems are core skills, tight running squads, queue syncing, etc. With respect to people being able to make a living off killing miners, at least the miners can hire some defense, or stay in highsec space. Maybe CCP (well no probably never) will implement something similar. Lvl 5 shields lvl4 armor I have about 14 mil sp other then that my sp is all over the place I can use any weapon type or suit in the game I also have points in vehicles too just call me scumbag noob
Broonfondle Majikthies Bannana Boat Corp Relentless Heroes Alliance 474	Posted - 2013.11.20 17:11:00 - [115] - Quote Its a personal thing. Personally I wouldn't cus its too easy to loose a suit to something well beyond your control and a pub match simply doesn't pay out enough. I like to run suits expecting to loose them so I make good Adv / Basic fits to do the job almost as well ..,"where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
Ku Shala Exiled Veteran Elite 657	Posted - 2013.11.20 17:27:00 - [116] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Maybe Kain Spero could bring the community's views on this to CCP - oh wait nevermind, I forgot I saw him qsynced in FW match with TP and AE protostomping the 10 New Players on my team. how can you pub( public ) stomp a match that isn't a public contract First General of Exiled Veteran Elite Loyalty Is not always rewarded Serving Caldari State
Zelorian Dexter snr 8thDivision 72	Posted - 2013.11.20 17:39:00 - [117] - Quote I agree protostomoers are tedious. I only run STD in pub just do what I do smile everytime you take down a proto with your STD weapon. They just want to pad out there KDR because for some reason people actually think it means something. I do find it funny however when you go into FW you see the same guys getting pounded when other players run there proto. Just smile guys don't let them get to you
Aisha Ctarl 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 1789	Posted - 2013.11.20 17:39:00 - [118] - Quote But what if I pubstomp is ADV or BPO gear? Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming
HyperionsThunder Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 141	Posted - 2013.11.20 17:48:00 - [119] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: But what if I pubstomp is ADV or BPO gear? Then people will say, "Oh wow, that guy isn't running gear with an X in the corner. He must be really good!" Common sense will prevail. Adapt or die.
Her Nibs Pradox One Proficiency V. 79	Posted - 2013.11.20 17:56:00 - [120] - Quote HyperionsThunder wrote: So having just experienced the problem to a huge degree, I must say it has got to be incredibly frustrating. I just started a pub match, and instantly (and I'm serious, IT WAS INSTANTLY) died every time I spawned. I'm running an ADV gallente logi, stacked armor mods and some (undisclosed) proto gear. Nevertheless, I died as soon as I spawned, using the smart spawn option (not just spawning in to some dumb drop uplink in a bad position). This creates several significant problems. It was frustrating, and that isn't the point. If I wasn't running the gear I was, I might not have gone 1 and 4, so if I was a new player, this would have been impossible. Instantly spawning and dying isn't worth the time of any gamer. If you aren't spawned in to the beginning of a match, you could find yourself on the end of a Duvolle, and that is the big problem. In order for this game to last, there has to be some distinction, so an entire team can hold off a squad of vets. I'm don't mean to say, "WE NEED TO STOP THE PROTOSTOMPING WTF I HATE DYING," I mean to say that the long term vision of this game is hurt by the fact that new players are turned away by matches like mine... Yes it sucks...but I'd rather have that than Spawn Campers waiting for me.

Soldiersaint Deepspace Digital 590	Posted - 2013.11.20 18:08:00 - [121] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Every time I see a stop the stomping thread I think about when I first joined in Chromosome.... And then without mercy continue to stomp the living hell out of those new berries with my proto LR & Scr. Why you not give the new guys a chance you ask? Because I went through the same sh!t.... I TOOOK MY BEATINGS LIKE A GOOD OL' BOY WHY CANT THEY!!!! WELCOME TO NEW EDEN YES^^^^^^^^ FINALLY SOME ONE SPEAKS THE TRUTH. WE GOT WACKED NOW ITS THERE TURN!
XEROO COOL Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 146	Posted - 2013.11.20 18:59:00 - [122] - Quote Soldiersaint wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Every time I see a stop the stomping thread I think about when I first joined in Chromosome.... And then without mercy continue to stomp the living hell out of those new berries with my proto LR & Scr. Why you not give the new guys a chance you ask? Because I went through the same sh!t.... I TOOOK MY BEATINGS LIKE A GOOD OL' BOY WHY CANT THEY!!!! WELCOME TO NEW EDEN YES^^^^^^^^ FINALLY SOME ONE SPEAKS THE TRUTH. WE GOT WACKED NOW ITS THERE TURN! Wow you just solved the problem of the dwindling player base.... you deserve a cookie.. Everyone has a plan until you punch em in the face! (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+
Meeko Fent Commando Perkone Caldari State 1623	Posted - 2013.11.20 19:54:00 - [123] - Quote Soldiersaint wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Every time I see a stop the stomping thread I think about when I first joined in Chromosome.... And then without mercy continue to stomp the living hell out of those new berries with my proto LR & Scr. Why you not give the new guys a chance you ask? Because I went through the same sh!t.... I TOOOK MY BEATINGS LIKE A GOOD OL' BOY WHY CANT THEY!!!! WELCOME TO NEW EDEN YES^^^^^^^^ FINALLY SOME ONE SPEAKS THE TRUTH. WE GOT WACKED NOW ITS THERE TURN! Militia/standard versus militia/standard is equal to every match having Duovalle death squads? Right... For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy Replication Warrior
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 775	Posted - 2013.11.21 08:48:00 - [124] - Quote Soldiersaint wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Every time I see a stop the stomping thread I think about when I first joined in Chromosome.... And then without mercy continue to stomp the living hell out of those new berries with my proto LR & Scr. Why you not give the new guys a chance you ask? Because I went through the same sh!t.... I TOOOK MY BEATINGS LIKE A GOOD OL' BOY WHY CANT THEY!!!! WELCOME TO NEW EDEN YES^^^^^^^^ FINALLY SOME ONE SPEAKS THE TRUTH. WE GOT WACKED NOW ITS THERE TURN! Scroll back to my reply to this kid earlier in this thread. You didn't get whacked, that's complete bullshit. I don't remember Protostomping being a problem until Uprising came out, and we got respecs.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 972	Posted - 2013.11.21 12:10:00 - [125] - Quote Protostomping is worse now than it ever was. The abysmally low SP cap does nothing to help. "I went through it too!" is the stupidest, most vengeful and greedy base thinking you can have about this matter. If the game is a piece of ** in this regard, it's a piece of . That means they should do something to make it NOT a piece of . Instead, players go around telling other players to eat the ** because they had to, too. Ridiculous lack of logic and it's not going to help player retention. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 848	Posted - 2013.11.21 12:28:00 - [126] - Quote straya fox wrote: I don't believe in locking equipment tiers, this is New Eden. But it's not just fresh from academy guys that deal with this. I truly believe a sqadless mode will bring a lot more balance to all involved. One of the big problems i see is that amount of ISK farming in PC corps. Having an unlimited supply of ISK only enables players to run pro to 24/7. A lot of guys from no name corps with no foothold in PC can run proto gear but the ISK requirements are to much unless involved in a PC farm. "This is New Eden" doesn't work here. Supercapital ships aren't allowed to PVP in high-sec. Pub Matches take place in high-sec, and proto gear is Dusts equivalent of capitals and super capitals. Proto gear should be unusable in Pub Matches. Dust is nothing but PvP. There is nowhere to go to escape people stronger than you like there is in EVE. Once we get free roam, PVE, Mining, Exploration, ect. things can be more like EVE. Until then, Dust needs to be treated like a lobby shooter, because it is one. I agree with your points about PC farming however. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Burner of faces. The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
HyperionsThunder Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 142	Posted - 2013.11.21 16:45:00 - [127] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: straya fox wrote: I don't believe in locking equipment tiers, this is New Eden. But it's not just fresh from academy guys that deal with this. I truly believe a sqadless mode will bring a lot more balance to all involved. One of the big problems i see is that amount of ISK farming in PC corps. Having an unlimited supply of ISK only enables players to run pro to 24/7. A lot of guys from no name corps with no foothold in PC can run proto gear but the ISK requirements are to much unless involved in a PC farm. "This is New Eden" doesn't work here. Supercapital ships aren't allowed to PVP in high-sec. Pub Matches take place in high-sec, and proto gear is Dusts equivalent of capitals and super capitals. Proto gear should be unusable in Pub Matches. Dust is nothing but PvP. There is nowhere to go to escape people stronger than you like there is in EVE. Once we get free roam, PVE, Mining, Exploration, ect. things can be more like EVE. Until then, Dust needs to be treated like a lobby shooter, because it is one. I agree with your points about PC farming however. But there would still be a problem if a merc with 30 million SP used militia/STD in a match against someone with <1million SP in the same equipment. I think gradations of security space would be very beneficial, and as your skill levels increase, you are prevented from joining public matches in certain security levels. EDIT: Throughout the thread, I've been trying to point out that a higher SP merc can do significantly better with militia/STD/ADV gear than a low SP merc with proto. Not only have they worked out the mechanics of the game to a better degree, but the core skills have a HUGE effect on how the suit functions. Common sense will prevail. Adapt or die.
Jak'Saan Edge Regiment 110	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:23:00 - [128] - Quote HyperionsThunder wrote: But there would still be a problem if a merc with 30 million SP used militia/STD in a match against someone with <1million SP in the same equipment. I think gradations of security space would be very beneficial, and as your skill levels increase, you are prevented from joining public matches in certain security levels. EDIT: Throughout the thread, I've been trying to point out that a higher SP merc can do significantly better with militia/STD/ADV gear than a low SP merc with proto. Not only have they worked out the mechanics of the game to a better degree, but the core skills have a HUGE effect on how the suit functions. So over complicating it. Look: In Pub matches you have filters: Skirmish, Ambush, Domination. In FW you have filters: Amarr, Min, Gal, Cal In Pub, you should have an additional filter: Suit levels: Mlt, Std, Adv, Proto, "I don't care" Default == "I don't care", QQer (me) selects Adv or less. Anyone who joins a match < Proto cannot select any Proto suit fittings. It could even allow multiple selections so that if you wanted to play in a strictly Proto vs Proto match you could only select Proto.
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 780	Posted - 2013.11.21 21:20:00 - [129] - Quote Jak'Saan wrote: HyperionsThunder wrote: But there would still be a problem if a merc with 30 million SP used militia/STD in a match against someone with <1million SP in the same equipment. I think gradations of security space would be very beneficial, and as your skill levels increase, you are prevented from joining public matches in certain security levels. EDIT: Throughout the thread, I've been trying to point out that a higher SP merc can do significantly better with militia/STD/ADV gear than a low SP merc with proto. Not only have they worked out the mechanics of the game to a better degree, but the core skills have a HUGE effect on how the suit functions. So over complicating it. Look: In Pub matches you have filters: Skirmish, Ambush, Domination. In FW you have filters: Amarr, Min, Gal, Cal In Pub, you should have an additional filter: Suit levels: Mlt, Std, Adv, Proto, "I don't care" Default == "I don't care", QQer (me) selects Adv or less. Anyone who joins a match < Proto cannot select any Proto suit fittings. It could even allow multiple selections so that if you wanted to play in a strictly Proto vs Proto match you could only select Proto. This is a good idea. Perhaps maybe not the actual gear, but the overall meta level of the suit can be the splitting factor? I think payouts should match the lobbies too. The Militia/Standard lobbies don't payout as much as the Proto or "anything goes, I don't care" lobby. It would still factor in the risk vs. reward system.
Quil Evrything DUST University Ivy League 414	Posted - 2013.11.21 21:46:00 - [130] - Quote R'adeh Hunt wrote: I rejoice every time I face a full proto team pummelling my team. Yes...they are hated for it. However... I simply switch to my Thales and take their "most hated" crown Proto? Advanced? Militia? Doesn't matter, they all die the same way Oooo.. I feel a slogan coming on. Thales sez: You're fit with The Best? Die like the rest.

Jak'Saan Edge Regiment 111	Posted - 2013.11.21 21:50:00 - [131] - Quote 8213 wrote: Perhaps maybe not the actual gear, but the overall meta level of the suit can be the splitting factor? Except that generally it takes a lot less SP to skill into a proto module as opposed to proto suit. It would be much easier for nearly anyone to close the gap on module tiers. Plus I like my cpx mods :) and you really do pay for using complex modules on an adv or less suit. Especially scouts. So it seems like a more fair (and much easier to implement) change. No?
Quil Evrything DUST University Ivy League 414	Posted - 2013.11.21 21:51:00 - [132] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: The problem is that nobody wants to grind out this amount of SP against Stacked Squads of Vets with all Core Skills who run Proto 24/7. Players want to play against other players who are relatively close to them in terms of SP and Gear. Players want to be in challenging, but still competitive matches, not be ROFL stomped every single time they play. And the playerbase is not large enough to support that type of matchmaking. ... Unfortunately, it won't be getting fixed anytime soon. Yes it is large enough, and it COULD get fixed.. but your point about it WONT get fixed, is probably true. How it could be fixed Right Now: Have the 3-tiered battle limits implemented, along with displaying estimated times to battle start, or at least number of players in queue, for each tier. The vast majority of players will then choose to NEVER play in proto land, myself included. The protobears will notice that the time for their battles is an order of magnitude longer than the others, (plus, even when they do get in, there's no more clueless newbs to stomp), and so either a) quit running proto gear b) quit the game (Yay!) Proto gear wil then effectively be a rarity, and mostly limited to PC/FW.
Jak'Saan Edge Regiment 111	Posted - 2013.11.21 22:00:00 - [133] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: How it could be fixed Right Now: Have the 3-tiered battle limits implemented, along with displaying estimated times to battle start, or at least number of players in queue, for each tier. See this answer. It leaves more options than matches limited to only one tier. Truth is sometimes I am in the mood to cost proto bears lots of isk with my adv suit. Quil Evrything wrote: The vast majority of players will then choose to NEVER play in proto land, myself included. The protobears will notice that the time for their battles is an order of magnitude longer than the others, (plus, even when they do get in, there's no more clueless newbs to stomp), and so either a) quit running proto gear b) quit the game (Yay!) Proto gear wil then effectively be a rarity, and mostly limited to PC/FW. The same result would ensue! Woot!
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 256	Posted - 2013.11.22 03:25:00 - [134] - Quote Jak'Saan wrote: Jungian wrote: Stop crying OP. If you cant take it, get outta New Eden. This is the way its meant to be. DUST 514 is sadly not your general FPS shooter made for the masses. The handheld matchmaking you so desperately want, may be added for the Arena Modes that DUST will have in time. Lol exactly the attitude that turns new players away and now vets too. Enjoy your dying game then... btw if you don't believe it is dying: http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust This month's triple sp event and the 3 top wins payout event have redeemed the month, but Dust is in fact dying. Oh I know its dying, I wasnt trying to defend the games flaws. I myself havent played for a couple of months after accumulating 27 million SP over the past year. But why I stopped has nothing todo with the matchmaking issue you are adressing. I am an EVE player too, so for me the matchmaking is expected. The bugs too have been expected, and the slow development. And with EVE in mind (and how its been developed over the decade) I just need patience with DUST. Which is no problem really. I just wanna get back in the sheit I really do, but as it is now..not for a while.
Meeko Fent Commando Perkone Caldari State 1646	Posted - 2013.11.22 03:28:00 - [135] - Quote Tiericide.... For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy Replication Warrior
The Shadow Prince Harimau Malaya. 3	Posted - 2013.11.22 08:55:00 - [136] - Quote If ppl have the ISK why not go proto? real issue is matchmaking...full proto squads should vs full proto squads. heck squads should vs squads in general... more than 80% of games in DUST are unbalanced.
Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 141	Posted - 2013.11.22 09:03:00 - [137] - Quote I do feel your pain. I think it will be a gradual fix, and there are several factors that will contribute to this: 1) A proper PVE environment - the only way to teach new players how to play the game so they learn about the mechanics, the weapons and how things work in a controlled environment. This means they will be more prepared once they hit multiplayer 2) refining matchmaking - clearly there are a few issues to iron out. 3) introducing modes which nullify the advantage of teams - it's been said here already, but a squadless mode or a "every man for himself" mode is quite a good fit and would temper this behaviour. 4) Player behaviour - If people just realised that stomping another team into the redline within 1 minute of the match commencing means less WP, kills and fun for all, that will go a long way to fixing the behaviour. I've been on both sides of the protostomp, and both are not fun. The stomping side is running out with nothing to do and taking pot shots into the redline, and the stomped are just trying to break out of the redline or just waiting for the match to end.
Lazy Scumbag Intara Direct Action Caldari State 69	Posted - 2013.11.22 09:19:00 - [138] - Quote Run free fits and ruin their payday. (assuming pay calculations function properly)
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 123	Posted - 2013.11.22 09:22:00 - [139] - Quote Lazy Scumbag wrote: Run free fits and ruin their payday. (assuming pay calculations function properly) they dont, i've gotten 1st, kill alot of proto, only to get 250k recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Admonishment The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 24	Posted - 2013.11.22 09:35:00 - [140] - Quote Lol...I remember this public match about 2 days ago I think, 90% of the team was one corp..."public" match. Needless to say it didn't go so well with a team of randoms. Of course proto gear was used to further make sure no chance of winning was possible. Had to hold a candlelight vigil in remembrance. For the Principality of Zeon!

Texas Killionaire Capital Acquisitions LLC Public Disorder. 17	Posted - 2013.11.22 15:27:00 - [141] - Quote I pledge to not proto stomp between the hours of 10am and 10pm central. Every little bit helps... o7
HyperionsThunder Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 143	Posted - 2013.11.22 17:10:00 - [142] - Quote Jak'Saan wrote: HyperionsThunder wrote: But there would still be a problem if a merc with 30 million SP used militia/STD in a match against someone with <1million SP in the same equipment. I think gradations of security space would be very beneficial, and as your skill levels increase, you are prevented from joining public matches in certain security levels. EDIT: Throughout the thread, I've been trying to point out that a higher SP merc can do significantly better with militia/STD/ADV gear than a low SP merc with proto. Not only have they worked out the mechanics of the game to a better degree, but the core skills have a HUGE effect on how the suit functions. So over complicating it. Look: In Pub matches you have filters: Skirmish, Ambush, Domination. In FW you have filters: Amarr, Min, Gal, Cal In Pub, you should have an additional filter: Suit levels: Mlt, Std, Adv, Proto, "I don't care" Default == "I don't care", QQer (me) selects Adv or less. Anyone who joins a match < Proto cannot select any Proto suit fittings. It could even allow multiple selections so that if you wanted to play in a strictly Proto vs Proto match you could only select Proto. But if I join a STD match, and have every core skill maxed out, do you really think a new player is going to stand a chance? My recoil will be reduced, my damaged buffed, my accuracy buffed, my ammo buffed, not to mention my armor will be higher, my efficacy with every module will be better (and therefore an even greater buff to all my damage and my suits), my shields will be better, I'll be able to detect you way before you detect me, and all my equipment will function better than yours. I'll be able to hack faster, run faster, my grenades will stomp yours, and I'll have way more variety of suits, because I can spec into every STD tree. The complication about this issue is that gear isn't always the determining factor (and it almost never is). The only reason we focus on it is because we see that someone is running a proto suit with a proto gun. We ignore the issue when it is a squad of 30 million SP mercs running STD dropsuit + weapon. Common sense will prevail. Adapt or die.
howard sanchez DUST University Ivy League 813	Posted - 2013.11.25 21:26:00 - [143] - Quote HyperionsThunder wrote: Jak'Saan wrote: HyperionsThunder wrote: But there would still be a problem if a merc with 30 million SP used militia/STD in a match against someone with <1million SP in the same equipment. I think gradations of security space would be very beneficial, and as your skill levels increase, you are prevented from joining public matches in certain security levels. EDIT: Throughout the thread, I've been trying to point out that a higher SP merc can do significantly better with militia/STD/ADV gear than a low SP merc with proto. Not only have they worked out the mechanics of the game to a better degree, but the core skills have a HUGE effect on how the suit functions. So over complicating it. Look: In Pub matches you have filters: Skirmish, Ambush, Domination. In FW you have filters: Amarr, Min, Gal, Cal In Pub, you should have an additional filter: Suit levels: Mlt, Std, Adv, Proto, "I don't care" Default == "I don't care", QQer (me) selects Adv or less. Anyone who joins a match < Proto cannot select any Proto suit fittings. It could even allow multiple selections so that if you wanted to play in a strictly Proto vs Proto match you could only select Proto. But if I join a STD match, and have every core skill maxed out, do you really think a new player is going to stand a chance? My recoil will be reduced, my damaged buffed, my accuracy buffed, my ammo buffed, not to mention my armor will be higher, my efficacy with every module will be better (and therefore an even greater buff to all my damage and my suits), my shields will be better, I'll be able to detect you way before you detect me, and all my equipment will function better than yours. I'll be able to hack faster, run faster, my grenades will stomp yours, and I'll have way more variety of suits, because I can spec into every STD tree. The complication about this issue is that gear isn't always the determining factor (and it almost never is). The only reason we focus on it is because we see that someone is running a proto suit with a proto gun. We ignore the issue when it is a squad of 30 million SP mercs running STD dropsuit + weapon. And we ignore the likelihood that the proto-stompers are probably squared up with good comms and have worked together extensively. Those two things (comms and experience working as a team), I would humbly suggest, will win more matches than gear alone any day. What's the fix? Such a catch-22! Population is too small for limiting queues to certain gear and coordinated players do so much better they tend to be able to afford the gear. No hope. Just cry. It's what we do anyway
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 950	Posted - 2013.11.25 21:47:00 - [144] - Quote New Eden is rough and players face the consequences for their actions, but why would someone want to get their ass kicked for months just to have the chance to do the same? Eve is rough but there is Hi sec and PVE so you can learn the ropes and have fun before going against veteran players. Here there is no option and I blame CCP more than anyone. Matchmaking is crap. PC farming means vet corps can farm enough ISK to never worry about going negative in pubs. When a solo newberrie or a bunch of players in starter fits get together to take me or my team down I can still have fun knowing I was beaten tactically by an opponent with more skill. When I get spammed with core locus grenades by one player wearing proto it's infuriating. It turns a match sour real fast. There are a lot of corps that run together and kick ass without proto gear, they make the most fun teams to play against. This wasn't as bad in chrome because a lot less people had proto or the money to wear it. Starting this game is rough, but if EVE threw every new player straight into low and hi sec there would be a lot less players today, get PVE and new player safe pubs if we want any player retention. I'm surprised it's as high as it is now (which isn't high). The Ellecon's come from a long line of Gallente. Tarn chose Peace. Tallen chose war. SoonGäó514 CPM1 Candidate
Midas Fool T.R.I.A.D 214	Posted - 2013.11.25 23:27:00 - [145] - Quote Yeah a long time ago I suggested raising the bar instead of lowering it; players after a certain amount of SP could access exclusive modes with much higher payouts. My hope was that perhaps proto-stompers would look to these modes to maximize their challenge and their overall payout, being able to afford consistent use of prototype gear. The truth about these kinds of players has always been pretty evident, but giving them the benefit of the doubt for so long has me weary. This is a hard pill to swallow for everyone, especially those in proto gear with no ill intent. They are destroying new player retention, whether they like it or not. They would never play such modes...it clearly isn't what they're after. I personally hate using prototype suits or weapons. Just looking at my Freedom makes me uneasy, since the STD suits I kill with it have no answer for it at all. As such, I refrain from using anything proto 99.99% of the time, even when faced with an enemy protostomp. I see it as a chance to hone my skills against superior opponents, and I'm sure many vets share my sentiment, but new players are given no such chance. They simply don't have the experience to know how to begin to deal with them. And it sucks. A lot. And instead of apology or advice their reward for the miserable experience is an attitude of condescending elitism that a new player, especially one new to the Eve universe, is incapable of realizing. "HTFU" without context just sounds really dickish. I don't blame them for leaving. My personal favorite scenario is when at the beginning of a pub battle, the top-fit suit on the field is an advanced at best, and as soon as the battle begins to go sour for either side suddenly a wave of black suits appear. It's really lame, and it just drives the OP's point further into the reality it is. Enjoy your K/D, protostompers. Enjoy looking at that number until its the only one left on the server. For best results press R1 repeatedly. Consult your doctor if your erection persists for more than four hours.
Moorian Flav Ectype Inc. 99	Posted - 2013.11.25 23:36:00 - [146] - Quote Quote: Maybe Kain Spero could bring the community's views on this to CCP - oh wait nevermind, I forgot I saw him qsynced in FW match with TP and AE protostomping the 10 New Players on my team. I still find the CPM picks funny as several CPMs made it look as though they did "alot for the community" up until they were picked as CPMs. And now that everyone can see the true faces of the CPMs (where they only serve their own agenda and/or are trolls), there's no getting rid of them.
taxi bastard Minor Trueblood 24	Posted - 2013.11.26 00:01:00 - [147] - Quote its a big problem limiting the growth of dust and for the more casual/newer player the dust experience as a whole. the problem needs to be addressed first a foremost as for me its more important than extra content. dust needs player - dust needs you to buy AURUM - dust needs to grow into what it could be CCP must be stupid if they do not realise that unless they address this issue the game will dwindle not grow.
Zahle Undt Unkn0wn Killers Renegade Alliance 489	Posted - 2013.11.26 00:05:00 - [148] - Quote Screw matchmaking, its obviously never going top fix the problem when people spawn in in squads. What we need is PvE, a no squad every clone for themselves mode, and some ways to generate ISK outside of pup matches. Give players the opportunity to grind IDK and SP outside of PvP and I bet we would have a better chance of gaining and retaining players
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 818	Posted - 2013.11.26 11:10:00 - [149] - Quote Moorian Flav wrote: Quote: Maybe Kain Spero could bring the community's views on this to CCP - oh wait nevermind, I forgot I saw him qsynced in FW match with TP and AE protostomping the 10 New Players on my team. I still find the CPM picks funny as several CPMs made it look as though they did "alot for the community" up until they were picked as CPMs. And now that everyone can see the true faces of the CPMs (where they only serve their own agenda and/or are trolls), there's no getting rid of them. The very idea of having CPMs is just a bureaucratic notion that is laughable. I have no clue what a CPM does, or has done, for DUST 514 except try to spin the CCP Propaganda instead of just being objective and honest with both parties. I was in a match with CCPers once. Once, when they were squadded with some AE boys participating in protostomping themselves, and once when they were on the other side getting it up the a**. They know that it's a problem, but what can you do? They didn't really think to far ahead with this game.
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 818	Posted - 2013.11.26 11:26:00 - [150] - Quote Midas Fool wrote: Yeah a long time ago I suggested raising the bar instead of lowering it; players after a certain amount of SP could access exclusive modes with much higher payouts. My hope was that perhaps proto-stompers would look to these modes to maximize their challenge and their overall payout, being able to afford consistent use of prototype gear. The truth about these kinds of players has always been pretty evident, but giving them the benefit of the doubt for so long has me weary. This is a hard pill to swallow for everyone, especially those in proto gear with no ill intent. They are destroying new player retention, whether they like it or not. They would never play such modes...it clearly isn't what they're after. I personally hate using prototype suits or weapons. Just looking at my Freedom makes me uneasy, since the STD suits I kill with it have no answer for it at all. As such, I refrain from using anything proto 99.99% of the time, even when faced with an enemy protostomp. I see it as a chance to hone my skills against superior opponents, and I'm sure many vets share my sentiment, but new players are given no such chance. They simply don't have the experience to know how to begin to deal with them. And it sucks. A lot. And instead of apology or advice their reward for the miserable experience is an attitude of condescending elitism that a new player, especially one new to the Eve universe, is incapable of realizing. "HTFU" without context just sounds really dickish. I don't blame them for leaving. My personal favorite scenario is when at the beginning of a pub battle, the top-fit suit on the field is an advanced at best, and as soon as the battle begins to go sour for either side suddenly a wave of black suits appear. It's really lame, and it just drives the OP's point further into the reality it is. Enjoy your K/D, protostompers. Enjoy looking at that number until its the only one left on the server. I'm with you. If I spawn in with a Proto Suit by accident and there is no Supply Depot, I'll just use my sidearm until perhaps I get killed. My CEO has stated we are not to Protostomp, and some CEOs and top players are agreeing to do so as well. More and more I'm seeing a change (very, very slightly) because people are realizing that to drive off the remaining 4000 players on this game and shut down 100% of intake players is a reality that is in the very near future. At the current rate, the game can feasibly die in <6 months, the new player intake is plummeting and the turnover rate has shot through the roof in the last 3 months. When I play on my alt, which has 0 anything really (no passive SP, just 600,000SP so far) all I use is Starter Fits, and I have no Core Skills or Weapon Skills unlocked. I can take on a Proto and take all his shields and 1/2 his armor or more before he kills me. To me, that's a win. How does a player with 5x more HP, millions of SP dumped into it, and Prototype everything allowing a starter fit do that to him? On my main character (8213), when I encounter a starter fit, they're lucky if they can even hit me, let alone take 85% of my HP. If any of these Protostomp a**holes were to start the game today, fresh and not knowing of anything about DUST 514, they'd quit within a week as well. I've had AE guys and some 0uter.Heaven guys tell me to either "go find another game to play" and "We don't care if nobody plays this game, we'll be on top when it goes down", basically. Because they get a huge power trip of controlling an online empire on a video game, dominating noobs, and get single handedly destroy a game... that's power for these losers.



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