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HyperionsThunder
Ghost Wolf Industries
Alpha Wolf Pack
130
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Posted - 2013.11.17 05:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
So having just experienced the problem to a huge degree, I must say it has got to be incredibly frustrating. I just started a pub match, and instantly (and I'm serious, IT WAS INSTANTLY) died every time I spawned. I'm running an ADV gallente logi, stacked armor mods and some (undisclosed) proto gear. Nevertheless, I died as soon as I spawned, using the smart spawn option (not just spawning in to some dumb drop uplink in a bad position).
This creates several significant problems. It was frustrating, and that isn't the point. If I wasn't running the gear I was, I might not have gone 1 and 4, so if I was a new player, this would have been impossible. Instantly spawning and dying isn't worth the time of any gamer. If you aren't spawned in to the beginning of a match, you could find yourself on the end of a Duvolle, and that is the big problem. In order for this game to last, there has to be some distinction, so an entire team can hold off a squad of vets. I'm don't mean to say, "WE NEED TO STOP THE PROTOSTOMPING WTF I HATE DYING," I mean to say that the long term vision of this game is hurt by the fact that new players are turned away by matches like mine...
Common sense will prevail. Adapt or die.
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HyperionsThunder
Ghost Wolf Industries
Alpha Wolf Pack
133
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Posted - 2013.11.17 19:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:You know, there is a really simple solution. Unfortunately it would NEVER be implemented because of attitudes such as this. While I do understand the perspective of these players, they need to realize they are ruining NPE and Player retention of this game. They could have just as much fun playing with their teams in Standard or advanced gear only. If they truly think they are such elite DUST players, what is the big deal about using Std or Adv gear to at least give the other guys slightly more of a chance? I don't speak for anyone else's corp but I know we (OSG) by and large only run proto gear if the other side has it on the field or we see in the warbarge we've got a full squad or two on the opposite team. Honestly, the redline and stomps can be just as bad when we use standard gear. My standard SCR rifle with Prof 3 and standard damage mods is pretty effective. Some of our assault specialists with all AR skills to 5 can pretty much shred proto gear with Dren or Toxin rifles. My point is that it's not about proto gear. It's the experience gap between players and the core skills that make the biggest difference.
I agree with both this and your player base comment. There has to be some way to level the playing field though.
Common sense will prevail. Adapt or die.
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HyperionsThunder
Ghost Wolf Industries
Alpha Wolf Pack
134
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Posted - 2013.11.17 20:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
GeneralButtNaked wrote:HyperionsThunder wrote:
I agree with both this and your player base comment. There has to be some way to level the playing field though.
Why? Why in the name of anything does the game have to be "fair" for people who want to just run crap gear? A lot of the complaints about proto stompers are based around the fact that for whatever reason, the proto squad can afford to do it, while the other side can, or will not do the same. In the former case, if due to SP, than it is a matchmaking issue, and needs to be remedied. Although how one does that given the limited player count is hard to figure out. In the latter, F them. If you can't afford to run proto, play better, or join a PC landholder and show that you are good enough to earn a roster spot and a paycheck. If you can't sustain running proto because you die to much, and as such it is a massive ISK sink, then get better, get a squad, and stop dieing so much. I wish more people would adopt a good attitude towards facing down good opposition instead of just crying all the time.
I'm not crying about people running proto gear - in fact I generally run proto or ADV gear in every match I play. Why? Because it is better, and I'll be facing up against people doing the same. My point is that there needs to be some way for new players to figure out the mechanics of the game (and I don't just mean the academy). Most MMO games provide a larger introductory area, where new players can get used to playing. Doesn't EVE even have something similar? I understand that the player base is quite small, which makes match making difficult, but it will continue to shrink if new players are alienated in their first 5 matches.
Common sense will prevail. Adapt or die.
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HyperionsThunder
Ghost Wolf Industries
Alpha Wolf Pack
138
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Posted - 2013.11.19 22:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jak'Saan wrote:Honestly I couldn't agree more. I have been playing this game exclusively since closed beta. Exclusively. The only weeks I did not cap out was 1 week when I was on vacation. The last few times I played, I found myself raging every match. I'm so turned off of the game that I am breaking my consecutive weeks of capping out (I am almost 30 mil sp). And I have no desire to pick it up again until CCP even admits that this is an issue, (hence why I am still on forum)
This game just plain sucks now. No fun at all. Well anyway there are lots of other great games out there until CCP decides to ( or not to) do something about it.
Shouldn't you be on the dealing end of this problem with 30 million SP?
Common sense will prevail. Adapt or die.
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HyperionsThunder
Ghost Wolf Industries
Alpha Wolf Pack
138
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Posted - 2013.11.19 22:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ensar Cael wrote:Taken long enough for a proper discussion on this subject to arise. Normally its just pure QQ but this thread actually throws out points of truth. The game should allow for ALL play styles and ego stroking to be met but not at the cost of a n00bs getting turned off. Put the proto w*nking into perspective. It is a very powerful suit and takes serious effort to achieve but if its being used to crush those with NO hope of countering it then its just plain pointless and self defeating. CCP needs to address this issue and soon by taking some measures to counter this. Why not change PC? Turn it over to the EVE side. It's plainly obvious that mercs get paid to fight and that's what needs to happen. Open up the EVE - DUST link, get the corporations and markets going then make it so that mercs DO NOT own land but fight contracts for the EVE corps that do. Aero Yassavi made an excellent thread that contains suggestions from all sorts on FW remodelling that can be applied to the whole game at points. To all the big corps, take some responsibility. Quit trolling the n00bs in pub matches and stop destroying the game for everyone.
I agree that more experienced players should take more responsibility, but when push comes to shove, it isn't always the gear that leads to very one sided matches. Core skills and teamwork are what drive the n00b crushing, and without a larger player base, matchmaking won't change.
So the question is, how do we convince blueberries to stick around? I think we've all been on the receiving end of much better players (I know I have), but we stuck around to get better. Unfortunately, most gamers won't feel that same investment (especially since it is F2P - I mean if you didn't spend any money on it, who gives a ****).
Common sense will prevail. Adapt or die.
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HyperionsThunder
Ghost Wolf Industries
Alpha Wolf Pack
140
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Posted - 2013.11.20 14:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
noobsniper the 2nd wrote:Just do what I do and go 27/0 in std gear thats how u prove your good not by being cunts and running your top tier suits so u can think your good stop being assholes ya proto scrubs save that **** for pc stop relying on your proto scrub crutches and learn to do good in normal gear
But the only reason people focus on prototype gear is because they see the suit and weapon when they get killed. What are your core skills at? I played with a merc last night, who kept bragging about how he was doing SO well in militia gear. He even exclaimed that he had been kicked out of several protostomping corps because he was "too good." When I asked him about his skills, he had +20 million SP, with most of it in weapons, and the rest in his dropsuit. We can hammer this point into the ground, it isn't gear that is the crux - the problems are core skills, tight running squads, queue syncing, etc.
With respect to people being able to make a living off killing miners, at least the miners can hire some defense, or stay in highsec space. Maybe CCP (well no probably never) will implement something similar.
Common sense will prevail. Adapt or die.
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HyperionsThunder
Ghost Wolf Industries
Alpha Wolf Pack
141
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Posted - 2013.11.20 15:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
trraacx wrote:Quoting this for the bump. This is an awesome idea. Make an incentive for the challenge. Mad Syringe wrote:I proposed this before:
Reward killing strong loadouts with weak loadouts with more SP.
Meaning, if you kill a Proto with say a Basic suit, you should get 75 SP.
If you kill a Basic with a Proto you only get 25 SP.
If the suits are more or less matched, give 50SP.
Vets would still have an advantage (due to passive skills), but the desire to run proto would be reduced.
This would reward newer players (or veterans who run cheap) and it would give less incentive to run Proto all the time.
Protos would still be the last resort for FW2.0 and PC, but in pub matches, everyone would more or less avoid it.
These ideas are already implemented in the ISK payout scheme. The more ISK lost by the other team, the higher the payout. S'why you can get 3 million ISK from a pubmatch on one day, and 150K on another.
Common sense will prevail. Adapt or die.
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HyperionsThunder
Ghost Wolf Industries
Alpha Wolf Pack
141
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Posted - 2013.11.20 17:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Aisha Ctarl wrote:But what if I pubstomp is ADV or BPO gear?
Then people will say, "Oh wow, that guy isn't running gear with an X in the corner. He must be really good!"
Common sense will prevail. Adapt or die.
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HyperionsThunder
Ghost Wolf Industries
Alpha Wolf Pack
142
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Posted - 2013.11.21 16:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:straya fox wrote:I don't believe in locking equipment tiers, this is New Eden.
But it's not just fresh from academy guys that deal with this. I truly believe a sqadless mode will bring a lot more balance to all involved.
One of the big problems i see is that amount of ISK farming in PC corps. Having an unlimited supply of ISK only enables players to run pro to 24/7.
A lot of guys from no name corps with no foothold in PC can run proto gear but the ISK requirements are to much unless involved in a PC farm. "This is New Eden" doesn't work here. Supercapital ships aren't allowed to PVP in high-sec. Pub Matches take place in high-sec, and proto gear is Dusts equivalent of capitals and super capitals. Proto gear should be unusable in Pub Matches. Dust is nothing but PvP. There is nowhere to go to escape people stronger than you like there is in EVE. Once we get free roam, PVE, Mining, Exploration, ect. things can be more like EVE. Until then, Dust needs to be treated like a lobby shooter, because it is one. I agree with your points about PC farming however.
But there would still be a problem if a merc with 30 million SP used militia/STD in a match against someone with <1million SP in the same equipment. I think gradations of security space would be very beneficial, and as your skill levels increase, you are prevented from joining public matches in certain security levels.
EDIT: Throughout the thread, I've been trying to point out that a higher SP merc can do significantly better with militia/STD/ADV gear than a low SP merc with proto. Not only have they worked out the mechanics of the game to a better degree, but the core skills have a HUGE effect on how the suit functions.
Common sense will prevail. Adapt or die.
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HyperionsThunder
Ghost Wolf Industries
Alpha Wolf Pack
143
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Posted - 2013.11.22 17:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jak'Saan wrote:HyperionsThunder wrote:But there would still be a problem if a merc with 30 million SP used militia/STD in a match against someone with <1million SP in the same equipment. I think gradations of security space would be very beneficial, and as your skill levels increase, you are prevented from joining public matches in certain security levels.
EDIT: Throughout the thread, I've been trying to point out that a higher SP merc can do significantly better with militia/STD/ADV gear than a low SP merc with proto. Not only have they worked out the mechanics of the game to a better degree, but the core skills have a HUGE effect on how the suit functions. So over complicating it. Look: In Pub matches you have filters: Skirmish, Ambush, Domination. In FW you have filters: Amarr, Min, Gal, Cal In Pub, you should have an additional filter: Suit levels: Mlt, Std, Adv, Proto, "I don't care" Default == "I don't care", QQer (me) selects Adv or less. Anyone who joins a match < Proto cannot select any Proto suit fittings. It could even allow multiple selections so that if you wanted to play in a strictly Proto vs Proto match you could only select Proto.
But if I join a STD match, and have every core skill maxed out, do you really think a new player is going to stand a chance? My recoil will be reduced, my damaged buffed, my accuracy buffed, my ammo buffed, not to mention my armor will be higher, my efficacy with every module will be better (and therefore an even greater buff to all my damage and my suits), my shields will be better, I'll be able to detect you way before you detect me, and all my equipment will function better than yours. I'll be able to hack faster, run faster, my grenades will stomp yours, and I'll have way more variety of suits, because I can spec into every STD tree.
The complication about this issue is that gear isn't always the determining factor (and it almost never is). The only reason we focus on it is because we see that someone is running a proto suit with a proto gun. We ignore the issue when it is a squad of 30 million SP mercs running STD dropsuit + weapon.
Common sense will prevail. Adapt or die.
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